Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-12-24

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:38 manchicken Hopefully I will _finally_ be able to run CI on osx with this...
01:39 manchicken Looks like travis doesn't handle CWD the same way with OSX as it does in GNU/Linux.
01:39 manchicken Anybody know if there's a way to get Travis-CI to cache your rakudo build?
01:40 manchicken I keep having to wait for this thing to build Perl 6 before it'll even run my tests.
01:46 timotimo i know only for linux; there's packages for that
01:47 manchicken Well crap...
01:47 manchicken This thing won't test because the DYLIB loader can't find the .so that the test needs. It's built, you can see the successful linker call to make it, and it's making it in the right path, but for some reason it just won't freakin' work.
01:49 manchicken The funny thing is that it works fine on my Mac.
01:53 timotimo i didn't know you can use .so on osx
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02:10 geekosaur it's nto the default but dyld does look for .so as a fallback, as of I think Lion
02:10 geekosaur badically to make porting easier
02:11 manchicken I meant `dylib`.
02:11 geekosaur you do still run into fundamental incompatibilities in the way dynamic loading works, though; if some .so is not being found, first place to look is the RPATH entries in the thing loading it
02:11 geekosaur (or ,dylib)
02:12 manchicken Yeah, I pulled the DYLIB path stuff in, but I don't think it's putting it where I expected.
02:12 geekosaur because unlike linux/ELF, it does not assume default locations
02:12 manchicken I'm trying a different approach.
02:12 geekosaur paths can be relative to RPATH entries (with @rpath tokens) but the default behavior is absolute paths
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02:13 manchicken https://travis-ci.org/manchicken/perl6-Fcntl/jobs/320869746
02:14 titsuki_ manchicken: you can automatically decide that your library should use .so or .dylib by calling $*VM.platform-library-name. (e.g. https://github.com/titsuki/p6-Geo-Hash/blob/master/Build.pm#L7 )
02:14 manchicken This would be a lot easier if it didn't build rakudobrew every bloody time.
02:14 manchicken titsuki_, I don't think that's my problem. I'm using `LibraryMake` which seems to do that fun for me.
02:14 manchicken I think it is something just as simple as the path is jacked.
02:15 manchicken I have a library I'm building that is only for the tests.
02:15 manchicken It's not in my META6, because it shouldn't be installed.
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02:16 geekosaur you don;t have a path on that at all. that was what I meant by the thing about absolute paths
02:16 manchicken For this Fcntl implementation, I wrote a tiny C program which just appends the machine-specific values for all of the relevant constants to a Perl 6 template file, and then that's your module. To test that, I made a simple library which has a function that compares those values coming from Perl 6 over nativecall to make sure that they make it back OK.
02:16 titsuki_ manchicken: ok, I see... ( and you can use it in Makefile: https://github.com/titsuki/p6-Geo-Hash/blob/master/src/Makefile.in#L7 )
02:17 geekosaur and... is $TRAVIS_BUILD_DIR == '.' ?
02:17 manchicken Dunno, about to investigate that.
02:17 manchicken Again, it takes like 10 minutes between runs. Super slow going.
02:18 manchicken Does anybody know how to cache the rakudobrew build?
02:18 geekosaur (more precisely/usefully is it `pwd`)
02:18 geekosaur ...or possibly $*CWD but that introduces other complexities
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02:25 manchicken Sorry, machine went to sleep on me.
02:25 manchicken Does anybody know how to make travis hold on to its perl6 build?
02:36 manchicken It's been a long time since I had a neat little project to dig into that had any greenfield stuff to do.
02:54 manchicken I think I found the problem...
02:54 manchicken $ ls -ltr $TRAVIS_BUILD_DIR/resources/lib
02:54 manchicken ls: /Users/travis/build/manchicken/perl6-Fcntl/resources/lib: No such file or directory
02:54 manchicken The $TRAVIS_BUILD_DIR is `/Users/travis/build/manchicken/perl6-Fcntl`
02:54 manchicken So, that path should be there.
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02:56 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:28 manchicken I don't think Travis likes me.
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03:51 anopperl6 How to use seq into loop perl6
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04:07 manchicken Progress!
04:07 manchicken I now have the library built for OSX.
04:09 manchicken p6: for <red yellow green>.Seq -> $x { $x.say }
04:09 camelia rakudo-moar 9606aea22: OUTPUT: «red␤yellow␤green␤»
04:09 manchicken Oh... he left.
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04:34 manchicken I _really_ need to find a way to speed up the travis builds.
04:35 variable one thing I really like about perl6: literal rationals
04:35 variable finally, a language gets it right
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04:46 manchicken Getting annoyed with Travis and OSX...
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05:13 manchicken Yeah, I'm at a loss here. I wonder if there's something funky about the virtualization going on with the `dlopen()` system call on Travis.
05:47 manchicken Well, Travis is definitely using an old version.
05:49 manchicken Kernel version 16.7.0... that's OSX Panther...
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05:56 manchicken Oh, no, that was iOS 10.3.3, not OSX.
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11:03 Guest49524 how to do `echo test | ./script.p6 a b c`?
11:04 timotimo hey Guest49524
11:05 timotimo if you want the script to run with perl6, you'll have to put #!/usr/bin/env perl6 as the very first line
11:05 timotimo and of course chmod +x the file
11:05 timotimo then it should work
11:05 Guest49524 timotimo: I have done those, but @*ARGS doesn't contain "test" from echo.
11:06 timotimo that is correct, you will have to read it from the stdin. for example slurp() will give you the entire data that was piped in
11:06 timotimo there's also lines() which you can loop over to get the data line-by-line
11:06 timotimo you can play with that with our evalbot, like so:
11:07 timotimo m: say lines()[3]
11:07 camelia rakudo-moar e5bb9bd20: OUTPUT: «         »Ich lösche die Flamm.«␤»
11:07 timotimo (we have some example data that always gets piped in; this is from macbeth i think?)
11:07 timotimo yes, it's the opening act of macbeth
11:07 timotimo m: .say for slurp.words
11:07 camelia rakudo-moar e5bb9bd20: OUTPUT: «»Wann␤treffen␤wir␤drei␤wieder␤zusamm?«␤»Um␤die␤siebente␤Stund‘,␤am␤Brückendamm.«␤»Am␤Mittelpfeiler.«␤»Ich␤lösche␤die␤Flamm.«␤»Ich␤mit«␤»Ich␤komme␤vom␤Norden␤her.«␤»Und␤ich␤vom␤S…»
11:08 timotimo the tiny ␤ symbols replace what used to be a proper newline that the program outputted
11:12 Guest49524 `say @*ARGS.perl;` ...that will work for `echo test | ./script.p6 a b c` to get ["a","b","c"]
11:12 Guest49524 `say slurp.perl;` ...that will work for `echo test | script.p6` to get "test\n"
11:13 Guest49524 but can you get both "test\n" and ["a","b","c"] ?
11:13 Guest49524 from `echo test | ./script.p6 a b c`
11:14 timotimo sure, how do you want it to look, exactly?
11:14 Guest49524 IDK? I guess just store them into separate variables?
11:15 timotimo well, the arguments are already in a separate variable, so you can just "my $all-data = slurp()"
11:16 Guest49524 slurp() tries to access "a", "b", and "c", as files?
11:19 timotimo oh!
11:19 timotimo sorry, i should have tried it locally
11:19 timotimo of course, that's the argfiles trick
11:19 timotimo you'll actually need to refer to stdin in this case: $*IN.slurp
11:26 Guest49524 how do you check if $*IN is empty? without `echo test` being piped in it wants user input
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11:31 Guest49524 IO::Handle<IO::Special.new(what => "<STDIN>")>(opened, at octet 0)
11:31 Guest49524 I think it's the "octet 0" part?
11:31 timotimo no, that just means the file pointer is at the very beginning
11:31 Zoffix Guest49524: no direct way, but you could check if it's a TTY:  .t and .slurp.say with $*IN
11:31 Zoffix Guest49524: no direct way, but you could check if it's a TTY:  .t or .slurp.say with $*IN
11:32 timotimo "tty" should be searchable in the docs, IMO
11:34 Geth ¦ doc: 4c01cd8253 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod6
11:34 Geth ¦ doc: Add `tty` as index marker for .t method
11:34 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/4c01cd8253
11:34 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/IO::Handle
11:35 timotimo thank you!
11:43 Guest49524 my $args = @*ARGS.perl;my $pipe;.t or $pipe=.slurp with $*IN;$pipe.say;$args.say;
11:43 Guest49524 what about prompting after that?
11:44 Guest49524 and for some reason $args has to be before $pipe but that is fine I just do not know why
11:44 timotimo you mean asking the user to input something on the terminal?
11:44 Guest49524 yes
11:45 timotimo then you can ".t and $userinput = .slurp with $*IN"
11:45 timotimo the ".t or ..." means "execute the thing on the right if it ($*IN) is not an interactive terminal"
11:46 timotimo and ".t and ..." means the opposite, i.e. "only do the thing on the right if it is an interactive terminal"
11:46 timotimo you can use "prompt" instead of .slurp there, that will also let you pass a little piece of text to display to the user
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11:50 Guest49524 that only works for `./script.p6 a b c` ...not for `echo test | ./script.p6`
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11:50 timotimo yeah, you can't ask the user for input after you piped something in
11:51 Guest49524 not ever?
11:51 timotimo well, you *can*, but you'll have to do something like "open('/dev/tty', :rw)" and interact with that directly
11:51 Guest49524 what about subshelling?
11:52 timotimo probably :w, :r actually
11:52 timotimo not :rw
11:52 timotimo echo "input" | perl6 -e 'say slurp; my $tty = open("/dev/tty", :r, :w); $tty.get.say'
11:52 timotimo this outputs "input" and then you can type something in manually and it'll echo it
11:52 timotimo i'll be AFK for a bit now
11:59 Guest49524 thanks!
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12:12 geekosaur what do you mean by subshelling?
12:12 geekosaur also you seem a bit confused about how things work
12:13 geekosaur you piped in, therefore you replaced the terminal as standard input with something else
12:24 Guest49524 shell "perl6 -e 'prompt \"query? \"'";
12:24 Guest49524 but how to get the prompt?
12:29 araraloren_ shell return a Proc::Async
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12:31 Guest49524 https://docs.perl6.org/routine/run.html
12:32 timotimo Guest49524: the prompt sub returns the text the user inputted
12:33 Guest49524 not from shell() though?
12:33 timotimo no, but you can get that with qx and qqx quoting constructs if you want
12:34 Guest49524 true
12:34 Guest49524 im just a noob giving perl6 another attempt
12:37 Geth ¦ doc: dd9e1ca5f8 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
12:37 Geth ¦ doc: update per current capability
12:37 Geth ¦ doc:
12:37 Geth ¦ doc: improve and extend information on the POD config formats
12:37 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/dd9e1ca5f8
12:37 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
12:38 timotimo https://docs.perl6.org/language/ipc - did you read this?
12:43 Guest49524 maybe a while ago?
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12:50 Guest49524 how long will it be until perl6 is finished?
12:52 araraloren_ :) not get it
12:53 Guest49524 lots of unimplemented features?
12:53 araraloren_ IDK
12:53 timotimo perl6 has had its release two years ago now
12:53 Guest49524 https://docs.perl6.org/language/pragmas
12:53 Guest49524 NYI & TBD
12:54 jnthn Those shouldn't really be in user-facing docs; they're just proposed things for future Perl 6 versions at this point.
12:54 jnthn That may happen or may never happen.
12:55 timotimo when perl6 is "finished" it is dead
12:55 araraloren_ such as `goto` ?
12:56 Guest49524 Real programmers can write assembly code in any language.
12:57 jnthn It's like asking "when will JavaScript/C#/Java be finished", and the answer is pretty much "when nobody cares to improve them any more"
12:58 jnthn Like Perl 6, they all exist in a current useful state, and all have ideas/plans for the future.
12:58 araraloren_ yeah, when C# 1.0 released, it not have too much feature
12:58 jnthn heh, really...I remembering writing that :-)
12:59 jnthn lunch, bbiab :)
12:59 araraloren_ 88
13:00 timotimo huh, 88?
13:00 araraloren_ bye bye
13:00 timotimo interesting
13:01 araraloren_ In china, `8`'s pronunciation is same as `bye`
13:01 timotimo oh, ok
13:01 araraloren_ so we use 88 short for bye bye
13:01 timotimo in germany, it's a rather hateful symbol of a rather evil group of people ...
13:02 Geth ¦ doc: 29f9b25dde | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/pragmas.pod6
13:02 Geth ¦ doc: Move unlikely to be implemented MONKEY pragmas into seperate section
13:02 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pragmas
13:02 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/29f9b25dde
13:02 araraloren_ oh
13:02 timotimo no problem, it's obvious you didn't mean that
13:03 AlexDaniel lizmat++
13:03 araraloren_ yeah, :)
13:03 lizmat m: use trace; say "foo"; no trace; say "bar"   # use trace *is* implemented
13:03 camelia rakudo-moar 1ea0c9084: OUTPUT: «2 (<tmp> line 1)␤say "foo"␤foo␤bar␤»
13:06 araraloren_ something about this: 88 means byebye, 666 means `cool awesome dope`
13:06 timotimo yeah, just not exactly defined in terms of semantics
13:09 Geth ¦ doc: 63fa2134f4 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/pragmas.pod6
13:09 Geth ¦ doc: Minimal description of "use/no trace"
13:09 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/63fa2134f4
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13:19 Geth ¦ doc: b33d6ef42a | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | doc/Language/pragmas.pod6
13:19 Geth ¦ doc: Minimal documentation of "no precompilation"
13:19 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/b33d6ef42a
13:19 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pragmas
13:49 lizmat afk&
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14:01 Geth ¦ doc: de8e7544de | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
14:01 Geth ¦ doc: add another boolean format
14:01 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/de8e7544de
14:01 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
14:09 pmurias jnthn: it seems we are using the statement migration stuff so that when we use things like foo("{1+2}") or a once in conjunction with a statement modifiers the stuff they put in the current block gets all nicely packed into the thunk
14:10 pmurias jnthn: I'll try to stop the putting of extra stuff into surrounding block part for those things
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16:10 bioexpress p6: say 3;
16:10 camelia rakudo-moar 1ea0c9084: OUTPUT: «3␤»
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17:25 Geth ¦ doc: 7922af5788 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
17:25 Geth ¦ doc: add information
17:25 Geth ¦ doc:
17:25 Geth ¦ doc: + separate ints and floats
17:25 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
17:25 Geth ¦ doc: + add a =head3 and title for reference
17:25 Geth ¦ doc: + spell completely String and Boolean
17:25 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/7922af5788
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18:04 yoleaux Zoffix: what's happening with the :SYM<> import, bruh? https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-09-24#i_15210457
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18:32 Geth ¦ doc: f7d9a34816 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/pod.pod6
18:32 Geth ¦ doc: add comma, align text
18:32 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/f7d9a34816
18:32 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/pod
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19:28 RudolfLovesLarry Hey all! Where's camelia?
19:29 kevani christmas break ;)
19:31 RudolfLovesLarry kevani how are you my friend
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21:29 AlexDaniel m: say 42
21:29 camelia rakudo-moar 1ea0c9084: OUTPUT: «42␤»
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21:34 moritz \o Merry Christmas to everybody o~
21:41 Geth ¦ doc: 241dc10c98 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Programs/00-running.pod6
21:41 Geth ¦ doc: chg POD6 to POD per discussion with AlexDaniel
21:41 Geth ¦ doc:
21:41 Geth ¦ doc: to reflect rakudo changes with PR #1339
21:41 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/241dc10c98
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21:57 tbrowder Merry Christmas, Moritz and all p6 people!
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22:03 russt1 playing with rakudo and I notice that -x -S command line args are gone from perl5.  any work around for that?
22:08 * moritz never used either in Perl 5
22:09 moritz russt1: if they are useful, you could contribute a patch that implements them in rakudo
22:10 russt1 possibly, where would I do that?
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22:11 russt1 I'm just learning about rakudo (in fact reading your book about perl 6 regexes I think :)
22:11 Zoffix FWIW they look pretty mental. Perhaps we should discuss whether we want them in the first place before making any patches?
22:11 russt1 I think if you are Lenz
22:11 moritz russt1: I am :-) How do you like it so far?
22:12 Zoffix And with `-x` perldoc perlrun says you'd indicate end with __END__ but we don't have an equivalent of it
22:12 russt1 I like it so far except I was trying to port my portable startup system for perl5 to perl6 and am missing those two args...
22:14 moritz what do you use it for? On Linux, I just use a shebang, and on Windows you can register a file extension
22:14 russt1 if [ $# -eq 0 ]; then exec perl -x -S $0; exit $? ; else exec perl -x -S $0 "$@"; exit $? ; fi
22:14 russt1 #!/bin/perl -w
22:14 russt1 the -x discards lines until it finds the #!perl pattern
22:15 moritz but why?
22:16 moritz do you often run "bash myprog.p6"?
22:19 russt1 trying to remember why, wrote this code a long time ago when I had to run on numerous unix systems plus mks shell in DOS
22:20 geekosaur iirc we do have __END__ by abusing pod6
22:20 geekosaur and the reason for -x and -S is basically to work around systems without shebang support
22:20 geekosaur I *think* we can safely put that one to bed
22:20 russt1 the main feature is for the perl interpreter to skip the shell preamble
22:21 Zoffix Yeah, the =finish block, but the speculations say "Anything in a source file after a =finish is always treated as Pod.", and you can embed proper Perl 6 code in Pod, which makes it unsafe as a "discard everything after it" feature
22:21 Zoffix (this isn't implemented properly yet ( RT#127213 ), but still)
22:21 AlexDaniel is there an equivalent of that in ruby or python or in anything else?
22:21 synopsebot RT#127213 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127213 [POD] after =finish isn't picked up in $=pod
22:23 Zoffix Relevant speculation, which confusingly does list =finish as equivalent of __END__ https://design.perl6.org/S02.html#Double-underscore_forms
22:23 Zoffix Oh wait, not confusingly. In Perl 5 you can stick pod after __END__ too
22:23 Zoffix But you can't run stuff with it
22:24 Geth ¦ doc/master: 4 commits pushed by (Will "Coke" Coleda)++
22:24 Geth ¦ doc/master: 2af5ec52ce | prefer spaces after commas
22:24 Geth ¦ doc/master: 71482c27eb | fix typos/learn words
22:24 Geth ¦ doc/master: 259473f65e | make signature match source
22:24 Geth ¦ doc/master: b0ec7cbe9a | make examples work
22:24 Geth ¦ doc/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/241dc10c98...b0ec7cbe9a
22:24 Zoffix m: =begin foo :bar(BEGIN say "just a Pod config variable")␤=end foo␤
22:24 camelia rakudo-moar 1ea0c9084: OUTPUT: «just a Pod config variable␤»
22:26 Zoffix Related ticket RT#130477 and TimToady's comments on whether Pod should be executable: https://irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/2017-01-09#i_13886808
22:26 synopsebot RT#130477 [open]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130477 [BUG][POD] Pod config parses colopairs but simply stringifies whatever it matched
22:27 * Zoffix &
22:27 Zoffix left #perl6
22:31 russt1 re: why use shell logic to establish perl env, it was so I could have multiple path environments on the same machine.  one can now use #!/bin/env for that.  The -S was to get perl to look for the actual script in $PATH.
22:32 teatime russt1: if you want maximum portability, use /usr/bin/env
22:34 russt1 the prlskel prog I wrote then uses $0 to load a perl library in a path that I could control and that has  a main, and would execute that.  features in prlskel establish a debugging env. among other things.
22:35 russt1 what would be the modern way to do all that?
22:36 russt1 I guess I could write a wrapper for the perl6 wrapper that would create a tmp file with the pre-amble removed or something.
22:37 russt1 I looked at the perl6 wrapper and I gather that it loads a byte-code file which contains the actual interpreter.
22:39 moritz that's correct
22:41 russt1 mosdef not interested in using a poddoc hack for such a simple feature.. :)
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