Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2018-01-03

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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00:24 comborico1611 Anyone in America?
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00:39 tbrowder Yes, but mighy cold!
00:40 geekosaur I'll let you know after I defrost
00:40 tbrowder Happy New Year, #perl6!
00:42 comborico1611_ Austin, Texas is in some bad icy roads
00:42 comborico1611_ Happy New Year, tbrowder.
00:50 comborico1611_ Anyone want to start a project with me?
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01:14 tbrowder what project?
01:17 comborico1611_ Redo bash to make it more beginner friendly.
01:19 comborico1611_ Example ls -l lists files in detail but does not use kilobtye or megabyte or gigbyte when listing the files.  It's just a raw number.  So we remove that from bbash (beginner bash).
01:20 comborico1611_ Also, ls is not beginner-friendly.  We use list, instead. And so forth.  Just redo the whole thing.  Go over every feature with a fine-tooth comb.
01:20 geekosaur ls is nbot part of bash
01:20 geekosaur if you mean redo unix, that's what OS X is for
01:20 comborico1611_ ls works in bash.
01:21 geekosaur and ye,s obviously you mean every command is built into the shell as well as part of the redo
01:21 geekosaur yes, perl6 works in bash too, so is fixing rakudo fixing bash?
01:21 tbrowder uh, excuse me while i barf! i do bash only when absolutely necessary, perl 6|5 otherwise.  but i’m sure it will be useful—i’ld just rather use my time on other things (like p6).
01:22 geekosaur there comes a point where "redo because this is how I think" gets in everyone else's way
01:22 comborico1611_ There are decades of comments of how command line is garbage.
01:22 comborico1611_ ls -l is garbage.
01:22 tbrowder have you ever attended the austin pm mtgs?
01:23 comborico1611_ Nope.
01:23 tbrowder they have a pretty active group...
01:23 comborico1611_ I'll check them out.  Thanks!
01:24 geekosaur again, that is what OS X is for
01:25 comborico1611_ tbrowder, not finding them.
01:25 tbrowder i wish we in the nw florida area had an active pm group...
01:25 geekosaur yes there's decades of comments. there's decades of comments in favor of them as well. do experts necessarily get penalized because newcomers are all that count?
01:25 comborico1611_ Pensacola?
01:25 tbrowder hm, let me check...
01:25 comborico1611_ geekosaur, I didn't say replace bash.
01:26 tbrowder see http://austin.pm
01:26 comborico1611_ Thanks!
01:27 tbrowder i’m in niceville, fl, across the bay from destin, and about i hr east of p’cola.
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01:28 tbrowder the perl folks would love a YAPC::NA (TPC::NA) in our area!
01:28 comborico1611_ That's good country over there.
01:29 comborico1611_ Sorry, I do not understand.
01:29 tbrowder roger! the “emerald coast” has some of the most beautiful beaches in the world.
01:30 tbrowder YAPC::NA yet another perl conference, north america; ,
01:31 tbrowder now called TPC::NA, the perl conference...
01:31 comborico1611_ Heh.  Austin Perlmonger's email subscription is powered by python.
01:31 comborico1611_ I see.  Thank you!
01:31 tbrowder yeah, don’t blame me!
01:31 comborico1611_ Heh.
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01:33 comborico1611_ This is an interesting read: http://kawagner.blogspot.com/2006/11/rich-languages-vs-minimal-languages.html
01:33 tbrowder last yr the TPC::NA was in DC, in 2016 it was in orlando, fl. i heard the location for this year but it wasn’t official so i won’t reveal it.
01:35 comborico1611_ Heh.  I'll guess it's um, Austin.
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01:39 tbrowder i can neither confirm nor deny...
01:39 comborico1611_ Well, I'm off to slumber on this frigid night -- grateful to be in a warm home!
01:42 tbrowder ref the blog ref: that leads nicely to one of the reasons i love p6: it’s a very rich language but a beginner can learn it easily by starting with basic usage. i have been trying to convince educators in our area to use p6 as a begginnng programming language.
01:44 tbrowder (not much luck, though—don’t know the right people)
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02:58 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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08:08 andrzejku hey people
08:08 andrzejku I have the question to the guys who develop MoarVM
08:14 geekosaur might ask in #moarvm then....
08:14 gfldex andrzejku there is #moarvm
08:15 geekosaur (but they're mostly on evenings, European time)
08:25 andrzejku ahh
08:25 lookatme :) haha
08:26 andrzejku lookatme: hey come to Telegram
08:26 andrzejku lookatme: and nice to meet you in the New Year
08:27 lookatme Hmm, Okay will available after work
08:27 andrzejku lookatme: I need to ask which things are necessary for AST tree structures from Perl6 and which we can just implement  or took implementation in Perl6
08:28 andrzejku lookatme: hard topic for beginners
08:29 lookatme MoarVM is just a VM, I think there is no things what we wanted
08:31 andrzejku lookatme: I am dumb ;s
08:32 andrzejku doesn moarvm only run IR code?
08:33 geekosaur its own bytecode, yes
08:34 andrzejku https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/docs/ops.markdown
08:34 andrzejku it is probably that one
08:34 lookatme yeah, that'
08:34 geekosaur builtin ops, yes. rakudo registers some of its own, for e,.g. spesh
08:35 andrzejku lookatme: so if we want to use LLVM IR than these all things are not useful
08:36 andrzejku the question then is if there will be something which is missing in IR comparing to Perl6 OPS
08:36 lookatme a little helpful, we can implement that built-in ops in LLVM IR, hope I am right :)
08:37 andrzejku lookatme: so the question is which part of perl6 are explicitly converted to the ops and which are used as modules
08:38 lookatme https://github.com/perl6/nqp/tree/master/src/vm
08:39 geekosaur andrzejku, the correct answer there is to look at nqp, probably both the moarvm and jvm backends
08:39 lookatme They call that stage0, right ?
08:40 lookatme I am not sure
08:41 geekosaur rakudo does some things at perl 6 level and more low level stuff at nqp level; the nqp backends work with {M,J}AST (low level ASTs per backend) and know how to generate code for low level operations
08:45 andrzejku geekosaur: I still cann't understand how is it workign that we can write a NQP in Perl6 compile it and generate OPS, someone here send that C works the same but thats a chicken egg problem which I don't understand very well
08:46 andrzejku lookatme: I find this link https://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/2013-rakudos-abstract-syntax-tree.html
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08:52 andrzejku andrzejku: the first C implementation was probably in Assembler, then they rewrite some parts into C and compile it or what?:D
08:52 lookatme andrzejku, that maybe out date
08:53 andrzejku so to compile the next release of compiler you need the previous compiler
08:53 andrzejku thats how I undestand
08:53 lookatme such as they write the 1st version NQP in c
08:53 lookatme and then write NQP with NQP ?
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08:54 andrzejku yeah so they took a binary compiler to compile the next NQP?
08:54 lookatme andrzejku, yeah
08:54 andrzejku lol
08:54 andrzejku lookatme: where is binary compiler in NQP sources?
08:54 lookatme you may search the keyword bootstrap
08:54 andrzejku okay
08:54 lookatme compiler bootstrap
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09:15 andrzejku lookatme: oh yea it looks even more complicated :P
09:15 andrzejku they write a grammar parser using PGE which written in PIR
09:15 andrzejku and it used a Parrot
09:15 andrzejku VM
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09:32 geekosaur and it's not unusual to find that to do a full bootstrap you have to go through older versions: the parrot one for rakudo, and for gcc if you want to build it with a different C compiler you need to go back to (iirc) gcc 1.45, then use that to build a newer gcc
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09:33 geekosaur ghc (haskell compiler) was originally written in lazy ml, then retargeted against hbc, then became self-targeting later. (you can;t do that one from scratch because both lml and hbc have been lost to time)
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09:35 geekosaur the first "portable C compiler" (pcc, aka cc in 7th research edition unix) was written in B iirc, with later ones self-targeting. the bootstrap B compiler was written in BCPL. you can look up BCPL antecedents on wikipedia; I've forgotten past that :)
09:36 DrForr Also look up the Thompson hack if you're in that era.
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09:58 eiro hello everyone
09:58 * DrForr waves while writing up a FOSDEM talk proposal.
09:59 Altreus yay fosdem \o/
09:59 Altreus does p6 deserve its own track yet
10:00 DrForr Right now we're short on Perl talks *period*, either 5 or 6, apparently.
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11:00 * DrForr submits 2, hoping only one is needed.
11:04 El_Che as far I can see, we should be ok (including one DrForr's talk)
11:04 El_Che we had many responses and we have probably more than slots available now
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11:04 El_Che will check in an hour or so, while inputting the talks
11:05 sjn El_Che: any talks suitable for newbies to the Perl community?
11:05 * sjn has been missing those quite often :-\
11:09 El_Che sjn: need to check, but there may be a 20m block if you want to do a community talk (again: need to check to be sure and make sure I haven't missed any mail in the last days)
11:09 El_Che block time today to finalised stuff. Some people sent in backup talks just in case (which is very nice in case there is a gap)
11:10 El_Che bbl
11:10 DrForr El_Che: Before you go, email?
11:11 El_Che mail me the details of the talk along what we discussed, yes. I put you there as 40m "confirmed"
11:13 DrForr I can do 2 20m if needed as well, I'll pass that in email as well.
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11:17 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: wukgdu++ created pull request #21: Close the temporary file
11:17 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-lwp-simple/pull/21
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: 829dc7840e | wukgdu++ | t/getstore.t
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: Close the temporary file
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-lwp-simple/commit/829dc7840e
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: b3ade50f75 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | t/getstore.t
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: Merge pull request #21 from wukgdu/closefile
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple:
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: Close the temporary file
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-lwp-simple/commit/b3ade50f75
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: a927ed8e10 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META6.json
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: Bump version
11:18 Geth ¦ perl6-lwp-simple: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6-lwp-simple/commit/a927ed8e10
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11:37 tyil so, I want to rename App::Cpan6 to App::Assixt, and wanted your input on this. My main reasons for renaming is that people are probably used to `cpan` in their shells, which install modules, whereas my `cpan6` does not deal with installing modules. Another issue I had was tab-completion, it will complete to cpan, which made me have to add an additional 6 each time manually. The intent of my module is not only
11:37 tyil to create a new module skeleton, but to also assist the dev with continued development on this module. There's documentation on what it can do: https://github.com/scriptkitties/perl6-App-Cpan6
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13:08 pmurias tbrowder: a big argument against using Perl 6 is as the first language is that it currently makes the "medium" stage of learning programming harder
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13:09 pmurias tbrowder: sure it should for the initial stage where you learn some basic concepts and syntax but it's harder to actually build something less basic with it (mostly because the ecosystem is not yet here)
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13:12 DrForr You could argue that Inline::Perl5 could help there, but there's the argument that "if I need help from Perl 5 libraries, why am I wasting time with Perl 6?"
13:13 pmurias DrForr: it's an extra obstacle for a beginner
13:13 DrForr Nod.
13:13 DrForr It also pulls you out of the p6 mindset and means you need to read p5 docs and translate, which isn't what a pure p6 curriculum would want.
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13:15 tbrowder pmurias: thnx for yr thoughts. i hadn’t considered what comes after basics, but what kinds of ecosystem things do we need? there is the most wanted modules list, but i don’t remember it being prioritized in any way.
13:21 pmurias tbrowder: hard to say, I guess that depends on whatever the first learning project the beginner will want to build
13:30 scimon Starting a weekly lunchtime Perl6 Coding Workshop at work tomorrow. No idea what we're going to do.
13:32 lizmat scimon: is there anything I can point to for the P6W ?
13:33 scimon Just internal company stuff for now. And I've had a lazy holiday.
13:34 scimon I may take another look at the most wanted list and see if there's anything I think I can manage.
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13:39 scimon note to self... be wary of recursive multi subs... you may end up locking your machine up.
13:39 scimon Note to everyone else... that.
13:39 DrForr BTDT.
13:39 DrForr But still thanks.
13:45 timotimo right, very tight recursion is a very good way to make moarvm allocate and use memory really, really fast
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13:55 rindolf DrForr: what is btdt?
13:56 Altreus gonna guess, been there done that
13:57 Altreus who's printing the t-shirts
13:57 DrForr Correct, Altreus. And not me.
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14:53 tyil DrForr: a friend of mine has that argument against p6 rn, many modules he wants are only available in perl 5, so while he *could* use Inline::Perl5 and get what he wants, why would he if he can also just use perl 5
14:54 lizmat tyil: please find out which modules it's about
14:55 tyil lizmat: WWW::Mechanize he was referring specifically back when he was looking in to it
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14:57 scimon Hmmmm.... See on the one hand it's a bit of functionality I'm really not a fan of (I'd much prefer to be accessing an API than trying to scrape a site) on the other. It'd be an interesting challenge to write.
14:58 tyil not all sites come with an API
14:58 scimon I know.
14:58 tyil so its not always an option
14:58 scimon Indeed.
15:04 scimon So, I had been wanting to learn Grammars. And a Grammar that takes a document an returns a list of links seems feasible.
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15:05 scimon Unless I'm preparing an expedition to crazy town.
15:05 DrForr Or a regex that matches your link pattern aplied with m:g :)
15:06 scimon A) Don't parse HTML with regexs that way lies madness and the summoning of Elder gods and B) then I don't get to learn Grammars.
15:06 dmaestro I'm finding that Rakudo* 2017.10 is very buggy on MacOSX, regarding moarvm spesh and jit. Anyone else been seeing or reporting this?
15:07 scimon (Plus I also want to be able to get forms and getting all the form fields with regexes... see elder gods)
15:10 Ulti dmaestro I can check if you want, is this the release rather than some other version?
15:10 Ulti also what sort of thing?
15:11 dmaestro Ulti: The Rakudo Star .dmg
15:12 Ulti oh right I literally never use that
15:13 Ulti dmaestro I doubt there are too many people who do actually so any info you have is likely really valuable
15:14 scimon tyil: Thinking about it a Perl6 version oculd provide some functionality that the Perl5 one doesn't easily (multiple parallel link following for instance).
15:14 scimon Hmmmm.
15:15 dmaestro I found the JIT problem with NativeCall / Inline::Perl5, and nine is aware of it. Tickets on Inline::Perl5 and MoarVM. A program I just tried blew up using nothing more than EVAL, regex, and ». (and I don't think EVAL had anything to do with it) - It just dropped a bunch of results.
15:15 dmaestro Disabling SPESH made my program work.
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15:16 dmaestro Don't have time now to post a new ticket, but I will when I get a chance.
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15:17 Ulti anything specific?
15:17 Ulti I just grabbed a copy
15:17 dmaestro Meanwhile, I think the Rakudo* .dmg should be withdrawn in favor of 2017.07 :-(
15:19 Zoffix m: my $c := Int(Cool); say 42 ~~ $c
15:19 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «False␤»
15:19 Ulti also promote things like the homebrew package
15:19 Zoffix Kinda expected that to give True. What are some uses of coercers outside of signatures? They're parsed during different machinery and I was hoping to write proper tests for them, but having a hard time... "using"... them
15:19 Zoffix s/during/using/;
15:20 Ulti dmaestro: a straight EVAL worked ok for me
15:21 Ulti though not something complex
15:22 scimon (Pre ordered my copy of moritz's new book :) )
15:26 dmaestro Ulti: Here is my program: https://gist.github.com/dmaestro/5366f1426c2295e521b491e76989d31b
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15:30 dmaestro Ulti: have to leave for now, thanks for checking this.
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15:34 Zoffix m: say :(42) ~~ :(Int(Any))
15:34 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «False␤»
15:34 Zoffix a can of worms these coercers are...
15:35 Zoffix m: say :(42) ~~ :(Int)
15:35 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «False␤»
15:36 Zoffix :/
15:36 Zoffix Ah, k, makes sense
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15:40 Geth ¦ doc: 8e000ca5eb | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Signature.pod6
15:40 Geth ¦ doc: Document Signature.ACCEPTS can't see into `where` clauses
15:40 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8e000ca5eb
15:40 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/type/Signature
15:41 Geth ¦ doc: 15b95574c6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Signature.pod6
15:41 Geth ¦ doc: s:g/RESULT/OUTPUT/
15:41 Geth ¦ doc:
15:41 Geth ¦ doc: Since that's what we usually use
15:41 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/15b95574c6
15:41 scimon No promises until tomorrow but I may bring up the "Perl6 WWW:Mechanize" at the workshop. And I'm discussing with my boss to ensure if we work on it in the office we can still release it OS :)
15:42 scimon More info when I have it.
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15:43 Geth ¦ doc: 235259e2d5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Signature.pod6
15:43 Geth ¦ doc: Fix typos
15:43 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/235259e2d5
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15:51 abraxxa i'd like to write an icmp(v6) ping monitoring daemon in Perl 6, any pointer where to start as there is no icmp module at all as far as i've seen?
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15:52 abraxxa the Net::Frame modules for Perl 5 on CPAN look good, ideally I'd write such a Perl 6 module
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16:05 tony-o https://modules.zef.pm/modules/Jorn%20van%20Engelen/Net::Packet
16:05 tony-o might give you a bit of a start abraxxa
16:06 abraxxa tony-o: thanks!
16:08 comborico1611 What does bootstrapping mean?
16:09 comborico1611 I search Wiki.  They said booting a computer. . .
16:10 Altreus different things in different contexts
16:10 [Coke] in this context: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1254542/what-is-bootstrapping
16:10 scimon Generally building something you can then use to build something more complex.
16:10 [Coke] er, s/this/a Perl 6/
16:10 abraxxa i only knew modules.perl6.org
16:10 [Coke] from the top answer:
16:10 [Coke] "Bootstrapping" is also used as a term for building a system using itself -- or more correctly, a predecessor version. For example, ANTLR version 3 is written using a parser developed in ANTLR version 2.
16:11 abraxxa is jpve around here?
16:11 * DrForr pricks his ears up at the mention of ANTLR :)
16:11 [Coke] .seen jpve
16:11 yoleaux I saw jpve 20 Nov 2014 12:15Z in #perl6: <jpve> Ah ok, thanks for the pointer, thats much simpler indeed :)
16:11 [Coke] not for some time.
16:12 abraxxa ;(
16:12 comborico1611 lol Drforr.
16:12 abraxxa the question is if this three year old Perl 6 code is still state of the art
16:12 comborico1611 Thanks!
16:12 Altreus idk, mostly when I hear about bootstrapping I assume there's some packaged version of a script that installs itself
16:12 Altreus like cpanm or something
16:13 Altreus does NQP bootstrap perl6?
16:14 mspo NQP is the IR for perl6
16:15 comborico1611 So we have "bootstrap loading" context.  Then, we have "self-building" context.
16:15 mspo C bootstraps NQP and MoarVM, mostly
16:15 Altreus sometimes I use it as "how to begin" :/
16:15 Altreus even though I really mean, here are some manual steps to run
16:15 comborico1611 Yes, I've heard that connotation before
16:15 Altreus nothing to do with bootstraps
16:15 abraxxa how do I get a raw socket? https://docs.perl6.org/language/5to6-perlfunc#sockets is a bit...nonexisting
16:16 mspo it's a loaded term to say the least ;)
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16:16 mspo abraxxa: you have to use NativeCall to do any networking that libuv doesn't provide + moar has exposed
16:17 timotimo mspo: calling it an IR is not quite correct
16:17 timotimo i'd say perl6 has multiple IR; first comes QAST, then comes MAST for moarvm
16:17 mspo timotimo: okay.  Not sure what else to call it :)
16:17 abraxxa mspo: UH! really?
16:17 abraxxa than that's a no-go!
16:17 mspo abraxxa: yeah it's not great
16:17 abraxxa I had hoped to use its great async features!
16:18 mspo abraxxa: udp was just added after I moaned about it last year ;)
16:18 comborico1611 First comes QAST, then comes MAST, then comes Perl6 in the baby carriage!
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16:18 mspo abraxxa: not sure if unix sockets are in there at all either
16:19 mspo abraxxa: because I went down the same road as you, wanting to hit all of these cool network tools in a super expressive language
16:19 kerframil joined #perl6
16:19 abraxxa I have to add IPv6 ping support to our NMS and wanted this to become the first Perl 6 piece
16:22 xcm joined #perl6
16:23 timotimo mspo: hold on, we have libuv-less sockets
16:23 abraxxa libuv doesn't seem to have raw sockets
16:24 abraxxa we should get Perl 6, no MoarVM listed here https://github.com/libuv/libuv
16:24 silug joined #perl6
16:25 abraxxa timotimo: are there docs for those?
16:33 mspo timotimo: you do?
16:33 timotimo https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/master/src/io/syncsocket.c
16:33 timotimo IO::Socket::INET, abraxxa
16:33 timotimo the ones that use libuv are IO::Socket::Async
16:34 abraxxa hm, why isn't that listed in the core modules section?
16:34 abraxxa https://docs.perl6.org/language/modules-core.html
16:34 abraxxa IO::Socket is a type, but IO::Socket::INET is a class
16:34 abraxxa timotimo: IO::Socket::INET provides TCP sockets, both the server and the client side.
16:34 abraxxa i need an ICMP socket (Linux only but ok for me) of RAW
16:36 timotimo yeah, for those you'll want to write nativecall code for now
16:36 abraxxa nativecall to which library?
16:36 timotimo is native(Str) probably, since moar is already linked with what you need
16:41 abraxxa timotimo: is there any example code I can cramp onto?
16:43 mspo timotimo: sorry to mislead
16:46 timotimo no prob
16:47 timotimo fwiw, we also do synchronous file i/o without libuv these days
16:48 imcsk8 joined #perl6
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17:19 comborico1611 m: say hello
17:19 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    hello used at line 1. Did you mean 'shell'?␤␤»
17:20 comborico1611 m: say "hello";
17:20 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «hello␤»
17:22 bloatable6 joined #perl6
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17:22 benchable6 joined #perl6
17:23 comborico1611 m: sub do-twice( $code ) { $code( ); $code( ); }; sub  greet { say "Hello" }; do-twice( &greet );
17:23 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «Hello␤Hello␤»
17:24 comborico1611 I suppose it is just an anomaly of Perl6 Parrot.  If I put spaces between () for code, it will not run.
17:26 perlpilot "Perl6 Parrot"?!?
17:26 comborico1611 I dislike newer Ubuntu OS's.
17:27 comborico1611 I learned another reason why just yesterday.  You cannot sudo Dolphin in Kubuntu 17.
17:30 mspo parrot is a bit old
17:30 comborico1611 And I couldn't get a 32 bit version of Rakudo easily.  So I stuck with Parrot.
17:30 comborico1611 Wait.
17:30 Ulti ...
17:31 comborico1611 Yeah, this is Parrot.
17:31 comborico1611 Anways, I'm off to lunch.
17:33 Ulti fairly confident you could just pin the latest rakudo package and it'd probably work out
17:34 AlexDaniel joined #perl6
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17:38 Zoffix .tell comborico1611 Parrot existed before there was even first stable perl 6 release. You're using slow and broken compiler. Just run these commands to build your own rakudo: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/3b9aa2a85e352ef31e6aaa6a431baeb6  and you can just run `update-perl6` whenever new compiler release comes out, to upgrade
17:38 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to comborico1611.
17:39 bisectable6 joined #perl6
17:42 Zoffix Anyone know equivalent of `git checkout $(git describe --abbrev=0 --tags)` on Windows cmd.exe?
17:46 Zoffix Got it: for /f usebackq %F in (`git describe "--abbrev=0" --tags`) do git checkout %F
17:49 Zoffix huggable: sauce
17:49 huggable Zoffix, Install untested latest development version of Rakudo from source: https://github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
17:50 Zoffix huggable: sauce :is: Install latest version of Rakudo from source: https://github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
17:50 huggable Zoffix, Added sauce as Install latest version of Rakudo from source: https://github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
17:50 Zoffix Made instructions default to latest release instead of HEAD
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17:58 AlexDaniel .seen raiph
17:58 yoleaux 01:18Z <tbrowder> AlexDaniel: Happy New Year! check out my new commits on rakudo PR #1339 and roast PR #371.
17:58 yoleaux I saw raiph 20 Nov 2017 20:13Z in #perl6: <raiph> m: { Failure.new for 1 }() # I haven't found doc or RT covering why this doesn't report the Failure; any thoughts/pointers?
17:58 AlexDaniel R#1339
17:58 synopsebot R#1339 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1339 Provides for fixes for several POD bugs:
18:00 [Coke] m: Failure.new
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «Failed␤␤Actually thrown at:␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:00 [Coke] m: { Failure.new }
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «Failed␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:00 [Coke] m: { Failure.new }()'
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3{ Failure.new }()7⏏5'␤    expecting any of:␤        infix␤        infix stopper␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤        stat…»
18:00 [Coke] m: { Failure.new }()
18:00 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «Failed␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
18:00 [Coke] wow, that is pretty specific. :)
18:03 dmaestro joined #perl6
18:06 AlexDaniel squashable6: next
18:06 squashable6 AlexDaniel, ⚠🍕 Next SQUASHathon in 1 day and ≈15 hours (2018-01-06 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Monthly-Bug-Squash-Day
18:11 wamba joined #perl6
18:16 dmaestro .tell Ulti That SPESH problem was not only MacOSX - also linux :-( -- going to check later versions
18:16 yoleaux dmaestro: I'll pass your message to Ulti.
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18:33 Ulti dmaestro: k
18:33 yoleaux 18:16Z <dmaestro> Ulti: That SPESH problem was not only MacOSX - also linux :-( -- going to check later versions
18:33 Ulti yoleaux needs some message distance logic :P
18:35 dmaestro Ulti: I just checked 2017.12, built on MacOSX - problem is easily duplicated. Were you able to duplicate this on any platform?
18:37 Ulti well I didnt have any input to run your code
18:38 Ulti what version of macOS?
18:38 Ulti Im 10.12.6
18:41 comborico1611 joined #perl6
18:45 dmaestro There is a commented line (with a lot of '_' ); I just tried putting 151 copies of that line in a test input file. My MacOS version is 10.11.6
18:50 dmaestro I duplicated the problem with Rakudo 2017.10 on CentOS linux as well (6.6) - built by hand
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18:56 Ulti dmaestro: isnt that code as written just going to be a tonne of failed code execution?
18:57 dmaestro The input lines are any double-quoted strings (don't include the '#' from the file).
18:58 Ulti works for me
18:59 Ulti Im on Rakudo form like an hour ago
18:59 dmaestro That may be good news - I'll try the same.
19:00 Ulti yeah even with 151 copies
19:00 Ulti also this code in general scares me.. if its serious code
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19:01 Ulti as in doing an eval just to strip some quotes when you're parsing with a grammar already which can trivially strip them anyway
19:02 dmaestro Not that serious (EVAL right?) - I was just trying some quick and dirty and thought I'd do it that way ... I was trying to get some good results with some additional processing I added later.
19:03 dotness joined #perl6
19:04 dmaestro Did eventually succeed BTW :-)
19:04 Ulti what with the latest rakudo?
19:05 dmaestro still building - sec
19:06 dmaestro Still fails for me - 'This is Rakudo version 2017.12-97-gf8d8481 built on MoarVM version 2017.12-19-g40a79ee'
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19:19 dmaestro Could chalk it up to EVAL? This works: my @raw-names = $*IN.lines.grep({  / ^ '"' <[ \w - ]>+ '"' $ / })».subst( / \" /, '', :g );
19:21 dmaestro ^No, it breaks if I give it more input (twice)
19:23 dmaestro I got caught by saying MVM_SPESH_DISABLE=0 - that does not actually disable, like MVM_SPESH_DISABLE=
19:25 dmaestro cat test_input test_input | MVM_SPESH_DISABLE= /Applications/Rakudo/bin/perl6 test_perl6-1.pm | wc -l
19:25 dmaestro 241
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19:26 timotimo right, has to have a non-empty string that isn't 0
19:35 dmaestro Oh, I meant =0 does NOT disable, in my experience.
19:37 dmaestro So any non-zero-length value ;-) will disable ...
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20:01 Ulti dmaestro: your code as written works fine for me
20:04 dmaestro I have posted the issue for MoarVM/MoarVM on github. Note that it seems sensitive to the amount of data. The latest version of my test rarely failed with 150 lines, but failed consistently with over 200.
20:05 Ulti aha
20:05 Ulti if I set it to do 1k lines it prints a random number of them
20:05 Ulti so yeah reproduced
20:06 Ulti spesh disable is only slightly better though
20:06 Ulti like 50% more lines
20:06 dmaestro Whew! I'm not crazy (at least not very much)
20:07 Ulti oh wait no got it
20:07 Ulti yup same for me
20:08 Ulti its really random though like I get between 190 to 350 evals being ok
20:08 dmaestro ok. https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues/775
20:08 Ulti what sort of spec is your Mac?
20:09 dmaestro MacBook Pro, 2014, 2.2 GHZ Intel Core i7
20:09 Ulti though your numbers arent vastly different to mine
20:09 dmaestro Ulti: Thanks for backing me up :-) must leave again.
20:09 dotnessx joined #perl6
20:10 Ulti np thanks for reporting it dmaestro
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20:26 comborico1611 You know how you can use TAB to cycle through a GUI?  Is there a button to go in the reverse direction.  For example, if you went too far with TAB?
20:26 yoleaux 17:38Z <Zoffix> comborico1611: Parrot existed before there was even first stable perl 6 release. You're using slow and broken compiler. Just run these commands to build your own rakudo: https://gist.github.com/zoffixznet/3b9aa2a85e352ef31e6aaa6a431baeb6  and you can just run `update-perl6` whenever new compiler release comes out, to upgrade
20:26 lichtkind joined #perl6
20:27 FROGGS comborico1611: isnt that shift+tab usually?
20:27 comborico1611 Thanks, yoleaux.  Zoffix: Will do.  Thanks!
20:27 comborico1611 Heh.  If it is, I haven't known about it for 15 years.
20:28 comborico1611 Yup.  You are correct, Sir.  Just imagine.  15 years ago, you were going to be the guy who would tell another guy about shift+tab!
20:30 comborico1611 Froggs, you ever seen that poster of a frog choking a pelican?
20:30 comborico1611 Thank you, by the way.
20:30 FROGGS a pelican? really? O.o
20:31 FROGGS ahh, seen it :D
20:31 comborico1611 Haha.  Yeah.  Is it an older poster?
20:31 comborico1611 The Never Give Up poster.
20:32 FROGGS yeah, that one
20:34 dct joined #perl6
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21:21 comborico1611 Yes!  I think I installed my first tarball!
21:30 xcm joined #perl6
21:32 novalinium joined #perl6
21:33 novalinium Anyone here used IO::Socket::Async.bind-udp? I can't seem to call it, getting a "Could not find symbol '&Async'"
21:35 masak m: say IO::Socket::Async
21:35 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «(Async)␤»
21:35 [Coke] m: IO::Socket::Async.bind-udp
21:35 camelia rakudo-moar f8d8481c9: OUTPUT: «Too few positionals passed; expected 3 arguments but got 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
21:35 [Coke] novalinium: what version of perl6 do you have?
21:35 novalinium 2017.10
21:36 masak looks like IO::Socket::Async is definitely older than that
21:36 jnthn bind-udp was added back in 2015, iirc
21:36 [Coke] novalinium: guessing there's something else going on in the code.
21:36 novalinium For source http://ix.io/DCa
21:36 El_Che hey jnthn, can we reserve a Cro talk for fosdem 2019? :)
21:36 [Coke] can you golf it and or gist it?
21:37 novalinium [Coke]: http://ix.io/DCa, ty
21:38 _Kaiepi joined #perl6
21:38 masak does the weird behavior depend on :from<Perl5> ?
21:38 [Coke] The perl6 parts seem fine. (commented out the use and the say, no errors)
21:39 novalinium Gotcha, am I using an Inline::Perl5 import incorrectly?
21:47 comborico1611 joined #perl6
21:48 comborico1611 So I installed Rakudo, but Parrot is still here.
21:48 [Coke] if you didn't uninstall parrot, I'm not surprised.
21:49 comborico1611 lol
21:49 [Coke] also, how did you install rakudo?
21:49 comborico1611 unpacking the tarball
21:50 [Coke] which tarball?
21:50 [Coke] let me ask a different question.
21:50 [Coke] what does "perl6 -v" say now?
21:50 comborico1611 Parrot
21:50 [Coke] ok, then where did you get the tarball and how did you install it?
21:51 comborico1611 perl6-rakudo-moarvm-ubuntu16.04_20170900-02_amd64 from rakudo.org
21:51 [Coke] ?
21:51 comborico1611 TAR FILE (in /opt )
21:51 perlpilot comborico1611: you might also want to check your PATH to see if the bad path for the parrot-perl6 is earlier than the good path for moarvm-perl6
21:51 El_Che the naming is the one I used on my old packages
21:51 [Coke] where on rakudo.org do you see this tarball??
21:52 comborico1611 Let me check.
21:52 comborico1611 Rakudo / Downloads / Linuyx
21:52 comborico1611 LInux
21:52 El_Che comborico1611: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases/tag/v2017.11
21:52 El_Che use the last release there
21:53 comborico1611 perlpilot, I don't know what PATH is.
21:53 [Coke] echo $PATH
21:53 El_Che (for the record, I've never packaged Parrot, nor provided tars; so I do not get how you get the old pkg naming)
21:53 El_Che comborico1611: info about PATH here: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg
21:53 comborico1611 Thanks!
21:54 mspo parrot is still floating around in os packages
21:54 * El_Che back to imputting fosdem talks
21:54 mspo it's still being developed sort of too, right?
21:54 comborico1611 Maybe if someone could direct me to the address where Parrot is, I can ./uninstall or osmething
21:54 perlpilot mspo: uh .. no?
21:55 jnthn El_Che: Wow, that's quite an advance booking :-)
21:55 jnthn El_Che: Probably will be able to
21:55 novalinium comborico1611: you might be able to `locate Parrot' and find the path in the output
21:55 xcm joined #perl6
21:55 perlpilot ... and then kill it with fire
21:56 comborico1611 Yes, I see it some of it.  But it is mingled with my XAMPP program.
21:56 comborico1611 That's can't be it (used 'locate Parrot' )
21:57 ilmari mspo: the last release was nearly two years ago, and it's only  had any trivial commits since then
21:57 ilmari -any
21:58 novalinium comborico1611: you sure? Is your XAMPP directory in your $PATH variable? That's a system variable that lists the search directories for your shell and other programs, you can find it with `echo $PATH' like Coke said
21:59 comborico1611 /usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/games:/usr/lib/jvm/java-8-oracle/bin:/usr/lib/jvm/java-8-oracle/db/bin:/usr/lib/jvm/java-8-oracle/jre/bin
21:59 novalinium More info at http://www.linfo.org/path_env_var.html
21:59 comborico1611 That's a good one, novalinium.
21:59 comborico1611 Thanks!
22:00 [Coke] also, parrot isn't installed as Parrot.
22:01 comborico1611 Thanks!
22:01 comborico1611 Getting hits now.
22:01 [Coke] (so this could be one of the other parrots, maybe)
22:03 comborico1611 I just used Ubuntu Software Center, searched for parrot and clicked remove.
22:05 comborico1611 That Ubuntu Software Center has saved my bacon so many times.
22:05 comborico1611 In fact, I'm using Kubuntu and install it over KDE's thingy.
22:08 El_Che jnthn: I honestly believe that it has the potential to generete some interest for perl6
22:09 jnthn El_Che: That's indeed one of the goals ;)
22:10 comborico1611 PATH should  have been named SHORTCUTS
22:10 novalinium Hot take
22:11 comborico1611 Hmm?
22:11 comborico1611 Hot Pocket.
22:11 comborico1611 I think I ate a hot pocket once in my life.  Disgusting.
22:12 comborico1611 That article is very good.  I'll need to remember this website, novalinium.
22:13 El_Che jnthn: I reckon that next year it would have taken the world and we could move you to the big aula :)
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22:27 comborico1611 Okay.  So echo $PATH is showing rakudo folder.
22:28 comborico1611 But still no recognition of perl6 command.
22:28 comborico1611 I used PATH="THE TWO FOLDERS THE INSTALLATION TOLD ME TO DO THIS TO:$PATH"
22:30 comborico1611 I read Rakudo's README.  There is one section I don't quite understand.  But I believe it is concerning these steps. "To set up the environment under a UNIX type system you will need to add the
22:30 comborico1611 absolute path of the local "install/bin" directory under your source build
22:30 comborico1611 directory or system-wide "${INSTDIR}/bin" directory (if you used the
22:30 comborico1611 --prefix option) to your PATH environment variable."
22:31 comborico1611 Is this same as PATH or another file?
22:32 timotimo what's the rakudo folder? there should be one ending in /bin/ i think
22:32 comborico1611 There are two: /opt/rakudo-star-2017.10/install/bin
22:32 comborico1611 /opt/rakudo-star-2017.10/install/share/perl6/site/bin
22:33 timotimo those are the right ones
22:33 timotimo you should be able to "ls /opt/rakudo-star-2017.10/install/bin" and find a "perl6" there
22:33 timotimo if that's not there, something earlier in the installation would have gone wrong somehow
22:33 comborico1611 But I want perl6 to be system-wide.
22:33 timotimo ah
22:34 comborico1611 I'll check and see if I can bring it up from inside the folder, though.
22:34 timotimo every user that wants to be able to use that ought to have those paths in their PATH as well. you can put symlinks to what's inside install/bin/ into one of the system-wide bin folders, though
22:34 timotimo however, perl6/site/bin is where new scripts get installed to when you "zef install" something that comes with commands
22:34 timotimo in that case you'd have to make more symlinks every time that happens
22:35 comborico1611 perl6 does not work inside of /bin
22:35 comborico1611 I think I'm just going to cave and install it the easy way "sudo apt-get install rakudo"
22:35 pecastro joined #perl6
22:36 timotimo can you define "does not work" a bit more?
22:36 MasterDuke comborico1611: just follow El_Che
22:36 comborico1611 timotimo: bash does not recognize "perl6 -v" command.
22:36 MasterDuke 's link and download a .deb and then `sudo dpkg -i <name>.deb`
22:37 comborico1611 Ah, yes.  Thanks for the reminder.  I forgot about the .deb
22:38 comborico1611 It would be satisfying to install my first .tar.giz? whatever it's called.
22:38 MasterDuke comborico1611: what version of kubuntu are you running?
22:39 comborico1611 14 64-bit
22:39 MasterDuke ah. the system repos for newer *buntus have rakudo 2017.06
22:40 comborico1611 They disabled using Dolphin as root in 17 :-(
22:41 comborico1611 Dude, my computer has 8 gigs of RAM!  That's like amazing.
22:41 cdg joined #perl6
22:42 comborico1611 I'm still stuck back in the late '90s, where that would be unheard-of for a personal computer.
22:43 comborico1611 Probably even servers, too, I guess.
22:44 comborico1611 Alright.  Well, I'm going to have supper.  I will continue to try the tarball.  But I've got the link saved for the .deb file.  Thanks Perl6 Community!
22:45 El_Che tar ball is a bad idea
22:45 El_Che he's not here, but it needed to be said :)
22:50 El_Che If coming to FOSDEM (Brussels, 3/4 Feb), we have a Perl devroom: https://fosdem.org/2018/schedule/track/perl_programming_language/
22:52 cdg joined #perl6
23:08 buggable New CPAN upload: Dist-Helper-0.19.0.tar.gz by TYIL https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/T/TY/TYIL/Perl6/Dist-Helper-0.19.0.tar.gz
23:11 shmibs joined #perl6
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23:47 Geth ¦ doc: c0cf73b6b9 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 5 files
23:47 Geth ¦ doc: Add a test to avoid using ".." after a word
23:47 Geth ¦ doc:
23:47 Geth ¦ doc: (typically you mean either . or ...)
23:47 Geth ¦ doc:
23:47 Geth ¦ doc: Closes #1632
23:47 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/c0cf73b6b9
23:47 Geth ¦ doc: 8b3a66ec6f | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/testing.pod6
23:47 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/testing
23:47 Geth ¦ doc: Avoid phrasing that triggers spell check
23:48 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8b3a66ec6f
23:48 Geth ¦ doc: 428429a51f | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | xt/words.pws
23:48 Geth ¦ doc: new word
23:48 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/428429a51f

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