Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2018-01-06

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:37 AndChat|688961 I think i just got this razor the sharpest I've gotten it.
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02:58 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:44 araraloren o|
03:44 yoleaux 19 Dec 2017 17:42Z <Zoffix> araraloren: FWIW, here's how IRC::Client reads from an async sock. It just parses what it gets as much as it can and saves left over stuff for the next time some data arrives: https://github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-IRC-Client/blob/master/lib/IRC/Client.pm6#L203-L214
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04:13 AlexDaniel squashable6: log
04:13 squashable6 AlexDaniel, Log and stats: https://gist.github.com/691c7eaedbab34d6bdd68fcb7a3535b4
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05:02 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “Using whitespace between…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1291#issuecomment-355723621
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: 136acc75ff | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/traps.pod6
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: Document Foo => 42 trap
05:05 Geth ¦ doc:
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: Resolves #1721
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/136acc75ff
05:05 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/traps
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: 8fd8c8d77a | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/traps.pod6
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: Fix and explaing .slurp mangling newlines
05:05 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ closed issue “Enums in pair notation trap (Foo => 42)”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1721
05:05 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ closed issue “slurp is mangling newlines (trap)”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1578
05:05 Geth ¦ doc:
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: Resolves #1578, or so I think.
05:05 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8fd8c8d77a
05:07 AlexDaniel hmhmh unfortunately won't be able to contribute much today
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05:23 travis-ci Doc build errored. Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev 'Fix and explaing .slurp mangling newlines
05:23 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/325708315 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/5ac524569b6d...8fd8c8d77a46
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05:23 buggable [travis build above] ☠ Did not recognize some failures. Check results manually.
05:32 AlexDaniel “explaing” :D
05:35 geekosaur ex-playing?
05:49 Geth ¦ doc: 3cdbea7fb6 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 3 files
05:49 Geth ¦ doc: Fix spelling
05:49 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/3cdbea7fb6
05:49 AlexDaniel geekosaur: ex-apmple!
06:03 Todd joined #perl6
06:04 Todd Hi All,  I did a fresh install of Fedora27 and now one of my pl6's give me ===SORRY!=== This type cannot unbox to a native string: P6opaque, Failure
06:04 Todd I have no idea what to look for
06:05 AlexDaniel no line number?
06:05 AlexDaniel if so, then try with --ll-exception
06:06 Todd that is all I get.  I tried putting a proofing print at the top and that did not come out either
06:06 Todd # rpm -qa rakudo rakudo-0.2017.08-2.fc27.x86_64     perl6 -v This is Rakudo version 2017.08 built on MoarVM version 2017.08.1
06:06 Todd --ll-exception   should that be "all" and where do I put it?
06:07 araraloren add to Perl6 command line
06:07 araraloren perl6 --ll-exception *.p6
06:07 Todd Got it.  it is about 30 line.  What do I look for
06:10 Todd This was the top two lines;
06:10 Todd This type cannot unbox to a native string: P6opaque, Failure    at SETTING::src/core/Exception.pm:57  (/usr/lib64/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:throw)
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06:10 travis-ci Doc build passed. Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev 'Fix spelling'
06:10 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/325713298 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/8fd8c8d77a46...3cdbea7fb626
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06:10 araraloren Todd, could you paste it in gist ?
06:11 Todd Don't know how to use gist, but I do know how to use vpaste:  http://vpaste.net/WuHL1
06:11 Todd warning: 108 lines long
06:17 araraloren :) Don't know what happened
06:19 geekosaur it's trying to load a module. my guess is that you have modules from a different build that you copied from another machine, and they need to actually be reinstalled rather than simply copied over
06:21 Todd ~.perl6 got copied over from the old machine.  Delete it?
06:21 geekosaur (precomp, among other things, stores actual byte offsets to internals and system-installed modules; if those offsets have changed, the precompiled modules will fail to load, the error could be better, though)
06:21 geekosaur move it aside, at least; ytou may need to see what modules you need to reinstall'
06:21 araraloren ...
06:23 Todd I renamed .perl6.  No joy.  Wait, let me check /root too
06:23 Todd still no joy.  Rats!
06:25 geekosaur not sure if there are things living elsewhere. the other possibility is that F26 is shipping with bad precomps somehow
06:25 geekosaur er F27
06:27 Todd I am carving up my pl6 and reproducing.  I will know the culprit in a few minutes
06:29 Todd Ha!  Found the culprit: use CurlUtils;   Now to see what it is complaining about
06:34 Todd Found two stinkers: `use Net::SMTP;` and `use Email::MIME;`
06:34 Todd I jsut zef'ed them minutes ago too!
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06:35 Todd my test code:
06:35 Todd #!/usr/bin/env perl6 # CurlUtils.pm6  # use Net::SMTP; # use Email::MIME;  use RunNoShell;           # qx[ RunNoShell ]  use Terminal::ANSIColor;  # qx[ color ];  use eMailDate;            # qx[ eMailDate ];
06:36 Todd what do i search for to see if I have more than one of these two kicking around?
06:37 Todd find / -iname \*net\* | grep -i smtp
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06:40 todd Some weird happened to my internet and I got kicked off.  Ddi someone write my about Net::SMTP and email:MIME ?
06:44 Geth ¦ doc: 1fcadcc8af | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/traps.pod6
06:44 Geth ¦ doc: Document …^ vs. … ^ trap
06:44 Geth ¦ doc:
06:44 Geth ¦ doc: Addresses https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1291
06:44 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/1fcadcc8af
06:44 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/traps
06:44 squashable6 🍕🍕🍕  First contribution by zoffixznet++! ♥
06:44 squashable6 🍕 zoffixznet++ wrote a comment on “Using whitespace between…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1291#issuecomment-355727837
06:44 squashable6 🍕 zoffixznet++ closed issue “Using whitespace between…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1291
06:52 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “Using whitespace between…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1291#issuecomment-355728131
07:00 todd I did a
07:02 todd ./zef uninstall Email::MIME   and  a   ./zef install Email::MIME    no joy  and this is weird,   `find / -iname \*email\* | grep -i mime`  and is only found stuff like this: `p6-Email-MIME.git`
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07:06 todd weird.  find is not finding any of my other modules either
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07:09 todd where are my modules suppose to be located?
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07:18 travis-ci Doc build errored. Zoffix Znet 'Document …^ vs. … ^ trap
07:18 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/325719499 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/3cdbea7fb626...1fcadcc8af68
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07:18 buggable [travis build above] ☠ Did not recognize some failures. Check results manually.
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07:35 todd Got it figured out.  I am going to write it up for the next two machines I need to support and for a Red Hat bugzilla report.  Would yo guys like to see the write up?
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07:40 Zoffix todd: sure!
07:40 Zoffix Also, modules are stored inside hashed things and not by filename
07:40 Zoffix (I think they're precompiled on install)
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07:41 todd writing it up right now
07:44 Zoffix sweet
07:45 moritz \o
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07:56 todd Here it is in all tis glory!
07:56 todd https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1531855
07:59 todd <editorial comment> why Fedora packages rakudo and zef separately is beyond me.   rakudo-pkg-Fedora27 included zef in its rpm, so should Fedora.  It would get rid of old zef's being mixed with new. </editorial comment>
08:02 todd Oh Red hat is so going to "WON'T FIX" this one:
08:02 todd https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1531856
08:03 todd Please package zef with rakudo
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08:03 Zoffix todd: kinda confusing reports. zef doesn't come with rakudo. It comes with rakudo star
08:04 todd Thank you all for the help in chasing this down.    The hint was revision conflict.  Fedora's Rakudo is just broken.
08:04 todd take a peek inside
08:04 todd https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases/download/v2017.11/rakudo-pkg-Fedora27-2017.11-01.x86_64.rpm
08:04 todd it comes with it
08:05 Zoffix todd: those RPMs are made by a 3rd party volunteer.
08:05 todd That must explain why they work and the official release does not.  :'(
08:05 Zoffix todd: these are basically the only deliverables made by the core team: https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/  most users should use Rakudo Star
08:07 Zoffix ===SORRY!===
08:07 Zoffix This type cannot unbox to a native string: P6opaque, Failure
08:07 todd wonder why fedora is using plain rakudo.  I was following suite
08:07 Zoffix todd: ^ and that could be a rakudo bug even. Are you still able to reproduce that? Can you run with perl6 --ll-exception flag?
08:08 todd Can't reproduce it anymore.  It is fixed.  Do you still have that vpaste I make.  I lost it.  It would be good to add to the bug report.
08:08 Zoffix todd: it might be using plain rakudo because there *are* monthly release of the compiler-only (and the confusion being witnessed right now is why we don't publicize those too much). Rakudo Star releases, by comparion, are done once every three months
08:09 Zoffix This one I'm guessing: http://vpaste.net/WuHL1
08:10 Zoffix Yeah... I'm not familiar with the part of the codebase it's referencing...
08:10 todd That's the one.  Thak you
08:11 todd I just did a `dnf whatprovides rakudo-star' and got back "rakudo-star = 0.0.2017.06-1.fc2"   Wow.  they are using Fedora 26's spin in 27 and it is way out of date.
08:11 Zoffix huggable: star
08:11 huggable Zoffix, Estimated Rakudo Star releases for 2017: .01, .04, .07 & .10
08:12 Zoffix todd: hm, weird version number too. There ain't not 2017.06 rakudo star
08:12 Zoffix These are all we got: https://rakudo.perl6.org/downloads/star/
08:12 Zoffix Wonder if they're too confusing our compiler releases for rakudo star releases
08:17 todd Me thinks...  What??  I can think! I just can't spell...  Me thinks I will stick with https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases for now.  There is something that doesn't smell right over at Fedora
08:18 Zoffix cool
08:20 todd Fedora has this is their 27 repo too: rakudo-star = 0.0.2017.08-1.fc26   But as you said only .01, .04, .07 & .10.  Something is seriously off.
08:23 todd Oh you know what.   I goofed.  I have an ssh terminal open on Fedora 26 machine doign some upgrades.  I did the whatprovides on it, whicfh explains the fc26.  I redid in on a FC27 machine and rakudo-star is not even support on 27.
08:23 Zoffix :)
08:24 todd I absolute adore Perl 6 (I come from Perl5 and years ago Modula 2, what a culture shift!).  I wish Fedora would get on board asap.  But I do have somewhre else to go, so I shouldn't complain and just be grateful
08:26 todd I started with P5 to replace all the stuff I did in bash and then got into p5 big time.  P6 is a real nice clean up, especially the subroutines.  I program in Top Down and I live and die in subs.  The P5 guys must have just been tired when they put the subs together.
08:34 todd Just stumbled across another weird one.
08:34 todd ===SORRY!=== Failed to create directory '/home/linuxutil/.precomp/6A0100E73A9E0630ECFBF4CBF870A4533AB71A3F.1511306550.98398/96' with mode '0o777': Failed to mkdir: 13
08:35 todd I am not making any directories!
08:35 todd Line 13 is commented out!
08:36 moritz it looks like 13 is the error code, not the line number
08:36 todd mv .precomp .precomp.000
08:36 Zoffix That's not line 13. It's errno. Permission denied
08:36 todd fixed it.  Hold over from my old machine
08:36 moritz btw there is a nice trick in Perl 5 for converting error numbers to error messages
08:37 moritz $ perl -wE '$! = 13; say $!'
08:37 * Zoffix just runs `errno 13` :)
08:38 todd I think this is one of those M$ error where it ways one thing and means something else.
08:39 El_Che todd: https://github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg <-- up to date pkgs
08:39 todd Boy I am really tripping across stuff today.  I really, really appreciate you guys help!
08:40 todd That is where I way, just one directory deeper.  It would be nice if they had a repo.
08:43 Zoffix .ask jnthn pondering R#1368 and looking at `callstatic` and `chain` ops in src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp. Seems like we can have `chainstatic` op and gain some perf in chains with static ops, no? Does that sound sane?
08:43 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
08:43 synopsebot R#1368 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1368 "42 < $a < 666" should be faster than "42 < $a && $a < 666", but is 2x as slow
08:43 * Zoffix drops to bed
08:44 Zoffix .tell jnthn FWIW, I realize the exact code in R#1368 could be constant-folded, I'm thinking of wider options
08:44 yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
08:47 El_Che todd: I plan to add repo's later, but because the pkgs have no dependencies it's not urgent ;)
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08:50 todd Awesome!  Do you have an "annouce" newsletter I can sign up for?  (Love the way you include zef.)
08:56 domidumont joined #perl6
08:57 todd El_Che?  Any announce newsletter?
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09:20 moritz if El_Che tweets it, https://twitter.com/perl6org will retweet it
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09:29 todd Todd signing out
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10:52 lizmat do we already have something like a "How to port a Perl 5 Module to Perl 6" guide in the documentation>?
10:53 lizmat I guess the 5to6-xxx pages are a start ?
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10:55 DrForr Hadn't seen it around when I was looking a while back, but that of ourse was a while back.
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11:15 araraloren_ Can I access MAIN function in a module ?
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11:19 DrForr m: module Foo { BEGIN{MAIN()}; }; sub MAIN() {say "called"};
11:19 camelia rakudo-moar 10cd405f9: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Whitespace required after keyword 'BEGIN'␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3module Foo { BEGIN7⏏5{MAIN()}; }; sub MAIN() {say "called"};␤»
11:20 DrForr m: module Foo { BEGIN {MAIN()}; }; sub MAIN() {say "called"};
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 10cd405f9: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared name:␤    MAIN used at line 1␤␤»
11:20 araraloren_ m: module Foo { &MAIN(); }; sub MAIN() {say "called"};
11:20 camelia rakudo-moar 10cd405f9: OUTPUT: «called␤called␤»
11:20 DrForr Probably just a namespace issue.
11:20 araraloren_ I do test like that
11:20 DrForr Well, there you go.
11:20 araraloren_ but can not do that in the real module
11:24 DrForr So what are you doing in the "real module" that makes that not work?
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11:32 araraloren_ just make a wrap for MAIN function
11:32 araraloren_ DrForr, really simple
11:32 araraloren_ I try declare MAIN with `our`, not work too
11:34 DrForr Could you put what you have in a gist so I can see it?
11:35 araraloren_ Hmm, ok
11:36 DrForr I'm doing this because what you say is "Just make a wrap" has a bunch of possible interpretations, and it's easier for me to see the code than play the guessing game of "Did they mean this..."
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11:37 araraloren_ Hmm, I not a newbie :)
11:38 araraloren_ In the module file, just `say &MAIN;` not working, and `say &::("GLOBAL::MAIN");` not working too
11:39 DrForr I know that, and I don't mean to sound insulting. It's just that the language lends itself to many ways of achieving a task, and I don't want to run through the list of what I know works only to find out what you mean is something completely different.
11:39 araraloren_ DrForr, I want access the MAIN sub , and make a wrapper for it, so I can run my code before MAIN, and do somethign with the MAIN signature
11:39 DrForr Again, can you please put actual code up, so I don't hae to guess what your module looks like?
11:43 araraloren_ https://gist.github.com/araraloren/816c3c84c16b12adc9924f689f60c502
11:43 araraloren_ Here you go DrForr
11:46 DrForr Well, it's a fragment, but I'll try to interpolate what I can, one mo.
11:47 araraloren_ okay, dinner time :P
11:47 DrForr I also note that your module has a ::MAIN of its own, this may cause a... sigh.
11:48 DrForr Also do you mean module or class?
11:49 araraloren_ module class ?
11:50 DrForr Perl 6 has both modules and classes, and since your code fragment doesn't tell me what this is in, I can't tell what you mean.
11:50 araraloren_ Hmm, how about without that ?
11:50 araraloren_ not a module or class
11:51 DrForr In fact I can't tell if this is a BEGIN block, a subroutine, a module or even a new() method.
11:51 araraloren_ just in that file
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11:52 DrForr I'm perfectly fine with helping, I don't mind in the least. I just don't need to play guessing games, especially if you're going to head out for dinner. Can you please post a single file, complete with module{} or class{}, methods and subs, that you want to make work?
11:53 araraloren_ ok, wait a mo
11:53 DrForr I don't mean to sound like a prima donna, I simply need more information than I have.
11:59 araraloren_ https://expirebox.com/download/172387c5977cd73c5cc8a6e76a0ae532.html
11:59 araraloren_ I make a simple example
12:00 araraloren_ I will check out after dinner
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12:42 El_Che DrForr: "I don't want to sound like a prime donna" is the type of things a prima donna says :)
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13:44 bioexpress p6: say 3;
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «3␤»
13:44 bioexpress test: p6: say "hello";
13:46 bioexpress p6: sub r { my @a = <a b c>; return @a }; my @b = r();
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: ( no output )
13:47 bioexpress Hello, does this routine return the array as a copy or as a reference?
13:49 jnthn It returns it as a reference, however assignment into an array is copying
13:49 yoleaux 08:43Z <Zoffix> jnthn: pondering R#1368 and looking at `callstatic` and `chain` ops in src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp. Seems like we can have `chainstatic` op and gain some perf in chains with static ops, no? Does that sound sane?
13:49 synopsebot R#1368 [open]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1368 "42 < $a < 666" should be faster than "42 < $a && $a < 666", but is 2x as slow
13:49 yoleaux 08:44Z <Zoffix> jnthn: FWIW, I realize the exact code in R#1368 could be constant-folded, I'm thinking of wider options
13:49 jnthn So the end result is that @b is an independent array from @a
13:49 jnthn (Same with my @b = @a, in fact)
13:50 jnthn .tell Zoffix A chainstatic op would be reasonable, yes
13:50 yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
13:59 bioexpress So this could be faster?
13:59 bioexpress p6: sub r { my $a = <a b c>; return $a }; my $b = r();
13:59 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: ( no output )
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14:00 araraloren_ p6: sub r { my @a = <a b c>; return @a }; my @b = r(); say now - BEGIN now
14:00 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «0.00790691␤»
14:01 araraloren_ p6: sub r { my $a = <a b c>; return $a }; my $b = r(); say now - BEGIN now
14:01 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «0.007993␤»
14:01 bioexpress This is a small list.
14:02 araraloren_ ( ̄▽ ̄) I think they are no difference
14:04 bioexpress p6: sub r { my @a = 'aaaaaaaaaa' .. 'zzzzzzzzzz'; return @a }; my @b = r();
14:04 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «(timeout)»
14:05 bioexpress sub r { my @a = 'aaaa' .. 'zzzz'; return @a }; my @b = r(); say now - BEGIN now
14:07 araraloren_ m: say 'aaaa' ... 'zzzz'
14:07 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «(aaaa aaab aaac aaad aaae aaaf aaag aaah aaai aaaj aaak aaal aaam aaan aaao aaap aaaq aaar aaas aaat aaau aaav aaaw aaax aaay aaaz aaba aabb aabc aabd aabe aabf aabg aabh aabi aabj aabk aabl aabm aabn aabo aabp aabq aabr aabs aabt aabu aabv aabw aabx …»
14:07 araraloren_ m: say 'aaaa' .. 'zzzz'
14:07 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «"aaaa".."zzzz"␤»
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14:08 araraloren_ It take long time 'aaaa....'
14:09 bioexpress p6: sub r { my $a = [ 'aa' .. 'zz' ]; return $a }; my $b = r(); say now - BEGIN now
14:09 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «0.0348510␤»
14:10 bioexpress p6: sub r { my @a = 'aa' .. 'zz'; return @a }; my @b = r(); say now - BEGIN now
14:10 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «0.04112563␤»
14:10 bioexpress p6: sub r { my @a = 'aa' .. 'zz'; return @a }; my @b = r(); say now - BEGIN now
14:10 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «0.0409084␤»
14:10 bioexpress p6: sub r { my $a = [ 'aa' .. 'zz']; return $a }; my $b = r(); say now - BEGIN now
14:10 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «0.0626457␤»
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14:17 Geth ¦ doc: ee8c768b82 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | 2 files
14:17 Geth ¦ doc: Fix broken links
14:17 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/ee8c768b82
14:17 squashable6 🍕🍕🍕  First contribution by dogbert17++! ♥
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14:28 travis-ci Doc build errored. Jan-Olof Hendig 'Fix broken links'
14:28 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/325788452 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/1fcadcc8af68...ee8c768b8244
14:28 travis-ci left #perl6
14:28 buggable [travis build above] ☠ Did not recognize some failures. Check results manually.
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15:23 Herby_ o/ everyone
15:24 comborico1611 Hey
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15:40 moritz \o
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15:45 comborico1611 What do y'all think of a feature to toggle from concise error messaging to verbose error messaging?
15:46 moritz in which context?
15:48 comborico1611 For example, some people prefer a concise error message, while others prefer more detail.  So for Rakudo Star, there could be some command to toggle to your preference.
15:54 moritz that's why our error messages tend to deliver the most relevant information in the first line, and you can ignore the rest if that's enough
15:54 moritz so, I think it's not worth the effort
15:55 comborico1611 I see.  I won't be able to judge that until I have many hours of experience with P6.
15:55 comborico1611 But that makes sense.
15:56 comborico1611 Moritz, how difficult do you think it would be for P6 to assume the role of PHP in Web Development?
15:57 comborico1611 By "assume the role" I don't mean to compete against it or take-over it's place.  I just mean, if I am a freelance web developer, would it be difficult to integrate P6 with Apache and MySQL?
15:58 moritz not really; MySQL support is already there, and the modern way to integrate with Apache or nginx is to have a stand-alone server, and have apache/nginx be a reverse proxy
15:59 comborico1611 Was Web Development in-mind when P6 was designed?
16:00 comborico1611 Or is kind of "stretching" it?
16:00 comborico1611 or is that stretching it*
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16:01 moritz Web development is not a stretch for Perl 6, nor for any other modern, general-purpose language
16:02 comborico1611 I see.
16:03 andrzejku araraloren_ hey :)
16:03 moritz comborico1611: https://github.com/Bailador/Bailador might interest you
16:03 comborico1611 Thanks!
16:13 cdg joined #perl6
16:21 comborico1611 I'm writing the ugliest calculator for seconds I can imagine.
16:21 comborico1611 I'm learning stuff, though.
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16:27 Nanjizal On a mac it keeps on wanting to use perl 5.  When I try to run prove it gives me error.
16:27 Nanjizal No tests named and 't' directory not found at /System/Library/Perl/5.18/App/Prove.pm line 528.
16:27 DrForr prove -e'perl6 -Ilib' # the '-Ilib' is extra, but recommended.
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16:30 Nanjizal I managed to run some hangman fine   doing   perl6 hangman.p6   but when I tried to do it from textmate even after I added a TM_PERL   parameter it would not work and complained.  But now I am trying to run the stuff here https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple
16:32 Nanjizal But I think mac's have perl 5 preinstalled so half the time it will use that what ever you tell the terminal
16:33 Nanjizal I probably should not change the mac perl version
16:33 moritz perl5 and perl6 are separate installations
16:33 DrForr I don't use TextMate - All I can say is to look at https://github.com/textmate/perl.tmbundle - there's a Perl 6 .tmbundle file there.
16:36 DrForr Nanjizal: There is probably an 'Application Helper' or 'Launch' setting in the UI somewhere that tells it what application to launch a given script with. That's what you have to find and change.
16:36 Nanjizal https://pastebin.com/QJqGQ7eY
16:36 comborico1611 The code is coming alive!
16:36 comborico1611 I thought it was going to be very ugly and confusing, but it is just verbose.
16:37 Nanjizal I commented out my user name to ****
16:38 Nanjizal But as I said with hangman.p6 it seems to work from terminal directly.  It was just more problematic with gtk-simple which I believe is setup for perl6
16:38 DrForr Nanjizal: It's using a Perl 5 .tmbundle resource, not the Perl 6 .tmbundle.
16:39 DrForr Er, I take that bak.
16:39 DrForr *back
16:39 Nanjizal The bottom of the textmate has detected it as Perl 6 code.
16:40 DrForr The Perl stuff I can see has both perl 5 and 6 jammed together in the same .tmbundle file, there's probably something else that needs to be configured.
16:40 Nanjizal I have point TM_PERL to the applications/Rakudo/....  before that it was picking up perl 5
16:42 Nanjizal but I can live with building/compiling it on the terminal at moment.  I was trying to just run the https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/blob/master/README.md#testing  from terminal and that does not work
16:43 Nanjizal $ prove -e "perl6 -Ilib"
16:43 Nanjizal No tests named and 't' directory not found at /System/Library/Perl/5.18/App/Prove.pm line 528.
16:44 DrForr That means there are no tests to run, so you're running the command in the wrong directory.
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16:44 DrForr 'prove' is meant to run your test scripts automatically. If you don't have any scripts to run, then 'prove' won't do what you want.
16:45 Nanjizal why would it say 5.18
16:45 moritz prove is a Perl 5 tool
16:45 moritz Perl 6 uses the same testing protocol as Perl 5
16:45 DrForr Because App::prove is a Perl 5 binary that you're using to run a perl 6 test suite.
16:45 moritz http://testanything.org/
16:46 DrForr It just happens to be able to launch Perl 6 when need be, that's what the '-e' flag does.
16:46 Nanjizal How do I get to the right directory if I have installed per instruction ? zef install GTK::Simple
16:47 DrForr zef should have already run the tests for you.
16:47 moritz zef install runs the tests for you
16:49 Nanjizal Well I feel a bit lost if I want to see this code running https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/blob/master/examples/18-cairo-draw-handler.pl6  and then modify it how would I go about that?
16:50 DrForr Clone the repository and run the example.
16:50 Nanjizal Oh ok will do :)
16:50 DrForr You can probably find the directory in .perl6 but I wouldn't bother.
16:51 DrForr Changing stuff there would muck with the actual Perl 6 code, it's safer to work from a cloned repo so you don't accidentally mess up what's installed.
17:03 Nanjizal MoarVM panic: Internal error: Unwound entire stack and missed handler
17:03 Nanjizal some work but Cairo one fails with this message.  I check Cairo is installed under brew
17:04 Nanjizal Quite exciting to see some visual stuff working though
17:04 Nanjizal https://github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/blob/master/examples/18-cairo-draw-handler.pl6
17:05 Nanjizal Cairo one is most intresting because it's not just forms but actual graphics
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17:11 DrForr Don't forget to file a bug report :)
17:13 Nanjizal Well it's my first look at perl so difficult to know if it's something I am doing wrong.
17:14 Nanjizal I am wondering, it seems that wrapping c++ is not too hard with Perl 6?
17:14 timotimo Nanjizal: i can help with that, it's my project and my example code
17:14 Nanjizal the Cairo one was not working.
17:14 timotimo "unwound entire stack and missed handler" is usually when you give a callback to a C library via nativecall, and the callback throws any exception
17:14 Nanjizal it's cloned repository running on mac
17:15 timotimo because it's impossible to unwind over the C portion of the stack that lives between the interpreter (where the C function was invoked) and the inner interpreter (where the callback is being interpreted)
17:15 Nanjizal I have not changed your code I may have renamed the file to something storter that's all
17:16 timotimo that's fine, the code is almost a year untouched :)
17:16 DrForr Nanjizal: What he's saying is that figuring out *what* callback is failing would help. Is there more in the stacktrace?
17:16 Nanjizal Not the way I am runnning it
17:17 Nanjizal is there optional args I should to get more verbose
17:18 timotimo the worst is when the C function calls your callback with a different signature than you expect, because no CATCH you can put into your code can catch that
17:18 DrForr It's probably not going to help in this case. Can you add a 'die;' to the code somewhere to see how far it gets before the callback dies?
17:18 timotimo dang, on my system the gtk cairo-draw-handler example script runs fine
17:19 Nanjizal you cloned the repository from scratch?
17:20 timotimo no, but the checkout is clean
17:20 timotimo can you clone the cairo repository, https://github.com/timo/cairo-p6.git and run its tests with perl6 -I . t/blah?
17:21 timotimo ok, looks like there's only one test
17:21 timotimo oh, no, six
17:21 Nanjizal I tried die; it dies at the end!
17:22 Nanjizal so am I right in thinking that these pm6 files are wrapping the c++ code ie: https://docs.perl6.org/language/nativecall
17:22 timotimo i was convinced i had pulled newest from cairo, but i hadn't!
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17:24 timotimo the gtk example still works
17:25 Nanjizal So pm6 files are kind of like 'externs' are in Haxe.  I am wondering do you think it would be feasible to wrap Kore ?
17:25 Nanjizal https://github.com/Kode/Kore/tree/master/Sources/Kore
17:26 Nanjizal Because that would be really powerful for Perl 6 for graphics.
17:26 timotimo opengl and directx? is it kind of like SDL2?
17:27 Nanjizal No it recompile the shaders for the platform.
17:27 Nanjizal So on mac it can use metal
17:27 Nanjizal I normally use it via Kha and Haxe.
17:27 Nanjizal it has js stuff as well but the Kore is the C++ stuff
17:27 timotimo right, SDL2 offers graphics primitives that use anything that's available
17:28 Nanjizal No it's lower level
17:28 timotimo http://hg.libsdl.org/SDL/file/4f3cdd0a5768/src/render
17:28 timotimo OK
17:29 Nanjizal http://kha.tech/
17:29 Nanjizal You can code for mobile or whatever directly in Kore but I would use Kha
17:30 Nanjizal But if it's not too hard to wrap it might be really nice graphics api
17:30 timotimo cool. you can check out the nativecall c++ test files in rakudo's t/ folder
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17:33 sum how to see the documentation of a built-in-function in Perl 6 REPL? If I want to see doc for unique function/method how to dee in the REPL?
17:35 sum rakudo: help(unique)
17:35 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    help used at line 1␤␤»
17:36 sum rakudo: ?unique
17:36 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of "?" in expression "?unique" in sink context (line 1)␤»
17:38 timotimo sum: unfortunately we don't have the docs available in the repl for any of the core functions and classes
17:38 timotimo otherwise you can just &something.WHY
17:38 DrForr sum: perl5 has 'perldoc -f' that can be leveraged, not sure what (if any) equivalent perl6 has for that; I'm afraid it might be trawling the HTML.
17:39 sum Actually I was going through this Python tutorial https://www.coursera.org/learn/learn-to-program/lecture/mogax/built-in-functions and was wondering if Perl 6 has similar help system
17:39 bisectable6 joined #perl6
17:40 sum In R too https://www.r-project.org/ they have help in REPL so I was wondering if we had similar help system
17:41 sum rakudo: &unique.WHY
17:41 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: ( no output )
17:42 sum rakudo: unique.WHY
17:42 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: ( no output )
17:43 sum timotimo: Interactive help system would have been nice
17:43 geekosaur r: say &unique.WHY
17:43 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d, rakudo-jvm a92950fb4: OUTPUT: «No documentation available for type 'Sub'.␤Perhaps it can be found at https://docs.perl6.org/type/Sub␤»
17:44 timotimo i agree
17:44 geekosaur it doesn''t automatically do a "say" because we found a bunch of problems with things in sink context and needed to be able to debug them easily, so default is sink context
17:45 timotimo it'd probably be a nice beginner or intermediate project to get help into the REPL if p6doc is installed
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17:47 sum timotimo: Can't it be done now? I mean interactive help system like R and Python. We don't have to go and find help in browser if it can be done in REPL !!
17:47 timotimo what i'm suggesting would not need the browser
17:48 DrForr sum: Yes, it can be done, patch the REPL to allow a 'desc' function. Sorry that it's not there already, but shelling out to p6doc wouldn't be too hard.
17:51 sum rakudo: p6doc unique
17:51 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    p6doc used at line 1␤␤»
17:51 sum rakudo: p6doc @.unique
17:51 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable @.unique used where no 'self' is available␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3p6doc @.unique7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        argument list␤        term␤»
17:52 sum rakudo: p6doc Str.unique
17:52 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤    p6doc used at line 1␤␤»
17:52 geekosaur sum, that is not a shell, p6doc is a shell command
17:52 geekosaur which is why "shell out to"
17:53 DrForr zef install p6doc ; p6doc func-name
17:53 sum geekosaur: I wanted to do in the REPL.
17:54 DrForr sum: Yes, we're saying it's not there yet, but would be simple to add.
17:54 geekosaur yes, and you are expecting it rewrote itself into being Python because that's what you want and therefore a natural law of the universe
17:54 sum DrForr: Alright then I have to exit the REPL and go to shell
17:54 geekosaur people have been telling you for the past 5 minutes that it is *not*
17:55 DrForr sum: Or switch to another terminal. Or send a PR for the REPL.
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17:57 sum DrForr geekosaur Thanks
17:58 timotimo sum you don't have to exit the repl to get to the terminal, there is ctrl-z
17:59 geekosaur some of the machinery is there already, the rest needs to be implemented. the REPL doesn't get enough attention and has a number of problems even as it is (for example some scoping issues)
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18:39 AlexDaniel squashable6: status
18:39 yoleaux 10:51Z <tbrowder> AlexDaniel: thnx, i do understand :-D
18:39 squashable6 AlexDaniel, 🍕🍕 SQUASHathon is in progress! The end of the event in ≈17 hours. See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Monthly-Bug-Squash-Day
18:39 squashable6 AlexDaniel, Log and stats: https://gist.github.com/422a9187f11724e2649ab15d16f44873
18:40 gfldex timotimo: if that sum fellow comes back, please tell him if he can read this, he is using our interactive help system :->
18:46 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “What is a trap and what isn't?”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1523#issuecomment-355766925
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18:50 Geth ¦ doc: 94f0703c90 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6
18:50 Geth ¦ doc: nbsp in Perl 5
18:50 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/94f0703c90
18:50 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/variables
18:51 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ labeled issue “Get rid of Perl5 mentions from non-5to6 docs”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1705
18:51 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ labeled issue “Get rid of Perl5 mentions from non-5to6 docs”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1705
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19:18 travis-ci Doc build passed. Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev 'nbsp in Perl 5'
19:18 travis-ci https://travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/325850802 https://github.com/perl6/doc/compare/ee8c768b8244...94f0703c9046
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19:20 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “Get rid of Perl5 mentions from non-5to6 docs”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1705#issuecomment-355769133
19:23 Geth ¦ doc: 52a7cc4504 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 14 files
19:23 Geth ¦ doc: Remove all mentions of Perl 5
19:23 Geth ¦ doc:
19:23 Geth ¦ doc: Well, actually leaving a lot of them still in. Very often it is
19:23 Geth ¦ doc: justified (obviously 100% of perl 5 mentions in 5to6 documents are).
19:23 Geth ¦ doc:
19:23 Geth ¦ doc: Resolves #1705.
19:23 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ closed issue “Get rid of Perl5 mentions from non-5to6 docs”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1705
19:23 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/52a7cc4504
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19:43 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “grapheme is not searchable”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1403#issuecomment-355770733
19:45 AlexDaniel 6c: #`
19:45 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦6c (26 commits): «»
19:45 AlexDaniel c: all #`
19:45 committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦all (48 commits): «»
19:45 AlexDaniel huh
19:46 AlexDaniel ah… I see
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19:52 Zoffix So I finally got annoyed enough by lack of highlights in GitHub's markdown on perl6 code blocks to see what the hell is up.... The likely cause? "Rename Perl6 to Perl 6" https://github.com/github/linguist/issues/3671
19:53 El_Che :)
19:53 El_Che Zoffix++
19:53 Zoffix Which makes it that you need to write ```perl 6``` instead of ```perl6``` in markdown, BUT that detects it as "perl" and highlights with the wrong language
19:53 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “Fix travis timeout”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1384#issuecomment-355771360
19:53 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ closed issue “Fix travis timeout”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1384
19:53 Zoffix And this was broken since August and no one apparently gave two bits about it, since I re-read the caching comment and it states that cache would've cleared when new changes in repo happen
19:55 AlexDaniel I've seen a lot of people struggling with it actually
19:55 Zoffix This having-a-name-with-mandatory-space-in-it is more than aesthetic
19:55 Zoffix Oh, sorry, &nbsp; in it
19:56 El_Che so, the solution is ```perl&nbsp6``` ?
19:57 El_Che dat sucks
19:57 AlexDaniel :D
19:57 AlexDaniel I think "Perl 6" was attempted, but it didn't work (?) https://github.com/spitsh/spitsh/commit/9bfc183c6c2aa01b7f30c5cbfc9b7dabd39429e8
19:58 Zoffix <Zoffix> […] BUT that detects it as "perl" and highlights with the wrong language
19:58 AlexDaniel right
19:59 AlexDaniel well my point was about using the quotes
20:03 andrzejku hey do you remember the guy who had started write llvm perl6 compiler?
20:03 andrzejku I had once his code
20:03 andrzejku here
20:09 Zoffix Filed https://github.com/github/linguist/issues/3976
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20:25 comborico1611 How do you search PATH for a specific program?
20:26 mspo which program
20:26 comborico1611 mysql
20:26 mspo :)
20:26 geekosaur I think they want the perl 6 version, bot the (bad, btw) bash one
20:27 geekosaur *not the
20:27 geekosaur (use "type" or you may be seeing what the next shell will see, not what *yours* sees)
20:27 comborico1611 "type mysql" ?
20:28 comborico1611 Kubuntu 17 comes packaged with mySQL and it conflicts with my XAMPP in PATH
20:28 mspo which(1) is a program
20:28 mspo although I enjoy "who's on first"
20:28 geekosaur comborico1611, yes
20:29 mspo in perl6 you'd have to do something like split the ENV[PATH] on : and grep over it
20:29 mspo as in, perl grep
20:29 geekosaur *please* do not fall into the linux trap of using which(1)
20:29 geekosaur and if you'd giove be a chance instead of spreading bad shell juju, it's on $*SPEC somewhere
20:30 moritz https://github.com/azawawi/perl6-file-which
20:31 comborico1611 Are y'all implying that P6 can be used as a replacement for Bash?
20:32 mspo you can implement the which command in perl6
20:32 comborico1611 Oh.
20:33 geekosaur hm, could have sworn there was a predefined one these days
20:33 mspo I think perl6 could be used to write a shell too
20:33 comborico1611 So "type mysql" produces /usr/bin/mysql
20:33 comborico1611 I tried to open mysql with Kate, but it isn't a text.
20:33 comborico1611 I'm not sure what to do from here.
20:34 moritz what do you want to achieve?
20:34 geekosaur if you really wanted to, you could probably get away with using it as a shell. I would not recommend oit. (the old warning for "m4 -e" comes to mind, but linux removed it so I suppose that means it never existed...)
20:34 comborico1611 Just delete mysql?
20:34 geekosaur comborico1611, no
20:34 geekosaur what is your actual problem
20:34 geekosaur mysql is a binary executable, not text. it is also probably required by other things, so removing it will probably break something else
20:34 comborico1611 I need to replace Kubuntu's packaged mysql in $PATH with XAMPP's mysql
20:34 geekosaur then change $PATH to point to XAMPP's first
20:34 comborico1611 I see.
20:35 comborico1611 If I just add it to $PATH, will it automatically be first?
20:35 comborico1611 or is there some other step to make it first?
20:35 geekosaur export PATH="<the path tot he dir containing the right mysql>:$PATH"
20:36 comborico1611 Isn't export only temporary?
20:36 geekosaur you also have to put that command in your shell's startup file
20:36 geekosaur but putting it there does not run it in your currently open shells
20:36 comborico1611 etc/profile
20:36 mspo you might want to read some docs on using unix
20:36 geekosaur there is no magic that adds it to both
20:36 geekosaur no, *your* shell startup, boit the systemwide one
20:36 geekosaur not the
20:36 geekosaur ~/.bash_profile or ~/.profile
20:37 comborico1611 Hmm.  Okay.
20:37 moritz or, like, follow the instructions for the stuff you're currently installing
20:37 geekosaur the system does not consist solely of the shell you are typing into. changing things systemwide based on what your current environment needs can break your system
20:38 comborico1611 Moritz, mmm.  I think I'm doing that.
20:40 Ven`` joined #perl6
20:40 comborico1611 XAMPP's instructions are litterally two steps: chmod and ./program.
20:40 comborico1611 And I quote, "That's all.  XAMPP is now installed below the /opt/lampp directory.
20:42 geekosaur somewhere in there, there has to be something telling you how to run if afterward
20:45 cdg joined #perl6
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20:45 comborico1611 I bet that is the most said thing on IRC throughout all it's year: "Just read the instructions".
20:46 comborico1611 I'm sure much of it was warranted.  But you have to admit that unless you begin learning computers in the 1970s, there is a bunch of stuff to learn.
20:46 Zoffix joined #perl6
20:47 Zoffix What's the pure-p6 way for this?
20:47 Zoffix m: use nqp; sub foo { bar }; sub bar { say nqp::getlexcaller('$meows') }; { my $meows = 'foos'; foo }
20:47 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «foos␤»
20:47 comborico1611 Like I'm trying to learn Web Development, for instance.  But because I'm going the PHP/Apache/MySQL route, I must also learn bash and unix.
20:47 Zoffix Can't figure out how to put CALLER:: into a variable and then lookup the next CALLER:: from it
20:47 Nanjizal joined #perl6
20:48 Zoffix m: sub foo { bar }; sub bar { say CALLER::CALLER::<$meows> }; { my $meows = 'foos'; foo }
20:48 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «Cannot access '$meows' through CALLER, because it is not declared as dynamic␤  in sub bar at <tmp> line 1␤  in sub foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
20:48 Zoffix Huh, weird. I don't get that error if $meows is exported into caller via sub EXPORT
20:55 Zoffix m: BEGIN '/tmp/dyncall'.IO.mkdir.add('DYN.pm6').spurt: 「sub EXPORT { Map.new: ('$meows' => 'foos', '&foo' => sub { CALLER::<$meows> }) }」; use lib </tmp/dyncall>; use DYN; say foo
20:55 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «foos␤»
20:55 Zoffix Looks like the detection only exists when the return value is a Hash
20:57 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “A lot of TODOs in Any”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1494#issuecomment-355776078
20:57 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ edited issue “Document :my and :our within regex blocks”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1475
20:59 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “Make link checker work locally; make it a test”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1433#issuecomment-355776213
20:59 evalable6 joined #perl6
20:59 TimToady m: sub foo { bar }; sub bar { say CALLER::CALLER::<$meows> }; { my $meows is dynamic = 'foos'; foo }
20:59 camelia rakudo-moar 6a6470f9d: OUTPUT: «foos␤»
21:00 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “Lots of broken links, in…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/561#issuecomment-355776274
21:00 Zoffix hm.. right... all I get is just a dynamic variable
21:00 TimToady if we don't require 'is dynamic', we can't do much local optimization on the varialble
21:00 * Zoffix goes back to the drawing board
21:01 TimToady since we don't know which variables a callee might depend on
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21:02 Zoffix Kinda want `use Foo` to export a dynamic variable and routines and those routines to use that variable, but to have that limited to the compunit. so if module A does `use Foo` and module B does `use Foo` module B gets its own variable, even if other routines it export that use Foo's routines are called by A
21:02 pmurias joined #perl6
21:04 mspo comborico1611: are you wanting to do perl6 web dev?
21:04 mspo comborico1611: but yes, it helps to know how to *use* a computer when trying to write programs and operate them
21:05 Zoffix More precisely: `use Config::JSON "some-file.json"; say jconf "key";` to use data from "some-file.json". But if some other comp unit in the same program does `use Config::JSON "some-other-file.json"` then for `jconf` inside that comp unit to use "some-other-file.json"
21:05 mspo comborico1611: unfortunately using a computer used to be something that was taught to people but now everyone assumes facebook taught them everything
21:05 mspo idk
21:05 geekosaur judging by about 6 channels so far today, that's unnecessary and unwanted. everything should require zero thought.
21:06 comborico1611 Heh.  I come from Compac Presario days in the mid 1990s.  I was a child then.
21:06 comborico1611 mspo, I'm not sure if I'm bright enough (or have enough time) to get Web Development done with P6.  I say this because things like XAMPP already have everything laid-out for the developer.
21:06 AlexDaniel awwaiid: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1247 ? :)
21:07 mspo comborico1611: if you say so
21:08 comborico1611 mspo, which book would you recommend on how to learn UNIX?  (or anyone else can chime-in)
21:08 geekosaur yes, downloading it downloads php and mysql into your brain too
21:08 mspo books by Evi Nemeth
21:09 comborico1611 In addition, there are many books about PHP and Web Development.  How many books are there about P6 and Web Development?
21:09 squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “internet searches are un…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1205#issuecomment-355777056
21:09 comborico1611 I need books.  I don't learn well by scrapping-around for info online.
21:10 comborico1611 Alright.  I'll check Nemeth out.
21:10 Ven`` joined #perl6
21:13 mspo I also got a lot of milage out of just looking up every command in /bin and /sbin
21:13 AlexDaniel squashable6: status
21:13 squashable6 AlexDaniel, 🍕🍕 SQUASHathon is in progress! The end of the event in ≈14 hours. See https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Monthly-Bug-Squash-Day
21:13 squashable6 AlexDaniel, Log and stats: https://gist.github.com/e3262bd6816216e85f260676be56f2e4
21:14 comborico1611 I"m just now realizing there are commands in bin and sbin.
21:14 Zoffix Solved my thing using: sub EXPORT ($conf = 'config.json') { { '&jconf' => &jconf.assuming($conf) } }
21:14 * Zoffix
21:14 Zoffix left #perl6
21:15 mspo comborico1611: you have a long way to go
21:15 Nanjizal joined #perl6
21:15 comborico1611 Ha.  How did you know there were commands in there?
21:16 comborico1611 In other words, how did you get started learning UNIX?  How old are you?
21:16 mspo I started using unix from a dial up ISP when the internet was first starting
21:16 mspo I learned by first unix commands by using ftp
21:16 comborico1611 80s or 90s?
21:16 mspo 90's
21:17 comborico1611 This was as a hobby?
21:17 mspo but i was writing dos batch scripts and using that command line too
21:17 squashable6 🍕 tbrowder++ closed issue “[POD] pod delmited block…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1709
21:17 squashable6 🍕🍕🍕  First contribution by tbrowder++! ♥
21:17 mspo <shrug> it was just part of my life
21:17 comborico1611 Did you have a Compac Presario?
21:18 * geekosaur just poked around a lot, and looked for docs on anything found
21:18 geekosaur this seems to be a lost art
21:18 comborico1611 I remember going into Sears and seeing their Computer Section.  Back then a screen saver was like a game.
21:19 comborico1611 geekosaur, I don't think I have the mental ability to learn that way.
21:19 squashable6 🍕 tbrowder++ wrote a comment on “[POD] pod delmited block…”: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1709#issuecomment-355777804
21:19 mspo compaq and no I had an IBM PS/1 tower
21:19 mspo comborico1611: I got OS/2 Warp 4 for christmas one year
21:19 comborico1611 Did you get it from Sears?
21:19 mspo from Dillards
21:19 Alikzus joined #perl6
21:19 comborico1611 You know, my Presario could have come from Dillards.
21:19 comborico1611 I don't remember which.
21:20 geekosaur that's not mental ability, really. my mom was convinced of that as well... then she learned to do it. from watching me, basically.
21:20 pmurias comborico1611: I learned UNIX and Perl from a books when I was a kid
21:20 pmurias s/a//
21:20 mspo I installed FreeBSD 2.something on it from CD ROMS that I got for free from a local computer/book store
21:20 geekosaur it's not lack of ability, it's self-doubt
21:20 mspo and then since I could no longer play sim city I reinstalled DOS
21:21 pmurias comborico1611: I guess there are plenty of UNIX books (even online in PDF form)
21:21 geekosaur if anything, it's easier these days: install vbox, install something in it. shut down vbox and copy the vm. then restart vbox and play around
21:21 geekosaur mess something up? shut down and copy your backup back over it
21:21 mspo yeah I was constantly installing operating systems on our family's only computer
21:21 comborico1611 geekosaur, could be.  I'm on a time-constraint, though.  I need to get a job before this summer.  It must be computing due to a disease I suffer from.
21:21 mspo and had to get it fixed by the next day or someone would be angry
21:22 comborico1611 That's back when a good Start-up Floppy Disk was like gold.
21:22 mspo a lot of programmers don't know how to use computers
21:23 mspo do you know how to use windows?
21:23 comborico1611 geekosaur, so I bring up time-constraints because fishing-around for info is much much slower than a good book.
21:23 comborico1611 I haven't used Windows in years.
21:24 mspo you've been running linux for years?
21:24 comborico1611 I got away from computers for like 15 years.
21:24 mspo oh
21:24 comborico1611 Probably 10 years.
21:24 comborico1611 Ubuntu-only.
21:24 comborico1611 I tried Red Hat, back in the early 2000s.  I couldn't get it installed.
21:25 comborico1611 I wanted to be a programmer in the 8th grade.  I bought a C++ book.
21:25 geekosaur I'm not sure linux has improved that much since then :)
21:25 comborico1611 I finished that book the beginning of this summer.
21:25 moritz geekosaur: it has
21:25 comborico1611 Ubuntu is so good.  VERY user friendly.
21:26 moritz you install it on a laptop. Out of the box, hardware 3D graphics and wifi works
21:26 geekosaur [06 21:26:06] <Sequell> linley henzell[6/7]: Henzell discussing his programming ability: "You see, I gave up on Borland's [C++] manual (which is very good, I'm just lazy) when it started talking about pointers [....] After pointers came structs, enums, pragmas, classes, macros, and a whole lot of other stuff which still means nothing to me."
21:26 comborico1611 I remember the first time I saw Ubuntu boot-up.  I was at a university and some guy started his laptop.
21:26 moritz nearly unthinkable 10 years ago
21:26 mspo indeed
21:27 mspo I recall manually iterating video settings from my x config file
21:27 mspo after scanning the probe results from the logs
21:27 geekosaur moritz, except I installed it on an HP laptop
21:27 mspo learning about weird commands like xvidtune
21:28 geekosaur wired network worked. wifi still doesn't. video is dubious.
21:28 geekosaur ("works" at boot time. run the config utility, or plug/unplug a monitor, and it explodes.)
21:28 mspo comborico1611: imho the easiest/best way to get a php job is to get really good at wordpress
21:28 comborico1611 mspo, (or anyone else) I have this book.  Do you think it would suffice for learning UNIX, or is it TOO INDEPTH? https://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Systems-Programming-Communication-Concurrency/dp/0134424077/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1515274100&amp;sr=8-3&amp;keywords=unix+system
21:29 comborico1611 mspo, thanks!  I appreciate the tip!
21:29 geekosaur comborico1611, I would start out by learning how to navigate unix first. as mspo mentioned early, Evi Nemeth's books are good for that
21:29 mspo why not just start with W. Richard Stevens  (lol)
21:29 geekosaur I would expect that particular book to be about advanced C programming.
21:29 comborico1611 I actually did that.
21:29 geekosaur with Unix APIs
21:30 geekosaur oh, dear.
21:30 comborico1611 lol
21:30 geekosaur stevens is where you go for the in-depth details of how unix networking works.
21:30 geekosaur not by any means beginner fare
21:30 comborico1611 I can attest to that.
21:30 mspo yes I was joking
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21:31 mspo Evi Nemeth books are tops
21:31 mspo UNIX Power Tools is a solid classic as well
21:31 comborico1611 I hate books with several authors . . .
21:31 mspo although a little dated
21:31 * geekosaur grins
21:31 mspo <shrug>
21:31 mspo I've read unix power tools and linux admin handbook cover to cover multiple times
21:31 mspo of course, it's my career
21:32 mspo I have tcp/ip illustrated on a shelf un-read
21:32 comborico1611 Me, too.
21:32 comborico1611 lol
21:32 * geekosaur contributed the section on bsd vs. system V terminal stuff to UPT vol 1. of course by the time it was published, POSIX termios had taken over and it was obsolete >.>
21:33 comborico1611 Man, that is rough.
21:33 mspo geekosaur: very tool
21:33 geekosaur I had Illustrated on a shelf as well... for others to reference, since I had more or less become the department's reference librarian at that point
21:33 mspo geekosaur: UPT was my go-to as a jr sysadmin
21:34 mspo I worked though learning perl during my overnight shift
21:36 cdg joined #perl6
21:36 mspo speaking of wordpress, I have a site to setup
21:39 Ven`` joined #perl6
22:02 comborico1611 I'm off.  Thanks guys for the feedback!
22:06 Geth ¦ doc: 0c94a8c2f1 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
22:06 Geth ¦ doc: Put “P5” back to glossary
22:06 Geth ¦ doc:
22:06 Geth ¦ doc: <lizmat> AlexDaniel: I think the term P5 needs to stay in the
22:06 Geth ¦ doc:          glossary, as it continues to live in X::Syntax::P5 and
22:06 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
22:06 Geth ¦ doc:          P5Regex
22:06 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/0c94a8c2f1
22:14 Geth ¦ doc: 9f88fb4a51 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6
22:14 Geth ¦ doc: Unneeded “a“
22:14 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/9f88fb4a51
22:14 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/quoting
22:17 tobs joined #perl6
22:35 Geth ¦ doc: 2eda02efe9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/phasers.pod6
22:35 Geth ¦ doc: Remove overuse of 'So'
22:35 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/2eda02efe9
22:35 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/phasers
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23:55 Geth ¦ doc: 50c6fd13f6 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod6
23:55 Geth ¦ doc: Document EXPORT behaviour with precompilation
23:55 Geth ¦ doc:
23:55 Geth ¦ doc: - Toss example of evil hack as it won't work right with precomp
23:55 Geth ¦ doc: - Document the precompilation caveat and how to deal with it per
23:55 synopsebot Link: https://doc.perl6.org/language/modules
23:55 Geth ¦ doc:   https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1371#issuecomment-355784718
23:55 Geth ¦ doc: review: https://github.com/perl6/doc/commit/50c6fd13f6
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