Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6book, 2009-10-13

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Time Nick Message
05:54 japhb joined #perl6book
11:36 masak joined #perl6book
18:42 lichtkind joined #perl6book
18:45 lichtkind i skimmed through the is no much content yet i, is there any masterplan
18:45 lichtkind ?
18:45 moritz_ see /topic
18:47 lichtkind yes good plan
18:48 lichtkind get i commit bit or should i sent patches?
18:48 moritz_ lichtkind: what's your github ID?
18:48 lichtkind lichtkind :)
18:49 moritz_ hugme: add lichtkind to book
18:49 * hugme hugs lichtkind. Welcome to book!
18:52 Tene joined #perl6book
19:03 lichtkind haha
19:08 moritz_ it's funny, but you have a commit bit now ;-)
19:09 jnthn AND you had a hug. Could live get any better?
19:09 jnthn :-)
19:10 Tene I didn't even know about this until lichtkind typo'd a /join in another channel.
19:11 japhb Tene, yeah, not terribly well advertised ... I happened to notice it when glancing at the right time at my second screen on the day it was announced.
19:13 Tene I've debated on and off writing a Perl 6 course for $JOB, but the sales guys wouldn't really know what to do with it.
19:14 moritz_ well, there'll be an announcement
19:14 moritz_ oh, and contributions are very welcome!
19:16 moritz_ ok, content question
19:17 moritz_ should I assume that type-based multi dispatch is known at the time where we place the grammar chapter?
19:17 jnthn moritz_: If it helps to get a good example, that sounds reasonable, yes.
19:18 moritz_ jnthn: well, there are several options here...
19:18 moritz_ jnthn: either we just assume it's known
19:19 moritz_ and have the JSON generation as a part of the example that doesn't really contribute to new features
19:19 moritz_ or we use it to introduce simple multi dispatch
19:19 moritz_ and put the chapter on real multi dispatch after it
19:20 jnthn I think that while various things depend on multi-dispatch (e.g. operator overloading, parametric roles, etc), not so many features depend on grammars.
19:20 moritz_ third option: we tear it apart, and use it in an earlier chapter to introduce multis
19:20 moritz_ and then just backreference it
19:21 jnthn So I think there's probably more things wanting type based multi-dispatch already explained than there are things wanting grammars explained.
19:21 jnthn Yes, that is a third option.
19:21 moritz_ that still leaves opions 2 or 3
19:21 moritz_ *options
19:22 jnthn Well, it means a grammars chapter can come later in the book without hindering explaining other things.
19:23 jnthn So I'd say it's not a problem for it to rely on multi-dispatch.
19:23 moritz_ ok, let's vote ;-)
19:24 moritz_ who's in favour of #2, leaving as-is or 3# tearing generation and parsing of JSON apart?
19:25 moritz_ s/ '3#' /#3/
19:25 jnthn moritz_: How many LOC roughly is the Whole Lot?
19:25 jnthn Is it small enough to be a managable example?
19:25 moritz_ jnthn: JSON generation is 44 lines
19:26 moritz_ grammar 78
19:26 jnthn 78 inc action methods to make a parse tree?
19:26 moritz_ actions: 83
19:26 jnthn ah
19:26 moritz_ glue code: 5 ;-)
19:26 jnthn Hmm. I think we did something right. ;-0
19:27 jnthn 78 + 83 is quite a bit. I do ponder that we may want to consider splitting it up.
19:27 jnthn That is, have the generation as a separate thing.
19:27 moritz_ ok
19:28 jnthn So I lean now a bit more towards #3. :-)
19:28 moritz_ ok
19:28 moritz_ #3 it is then
19:42 lichtkind jnthn: your right
19:43 lichtkind jnthn: i mean commit and hugh what else you need
19:44 lichtkind i think even its not entirely written we should outline the things in each lesson that we plan to teach
19:44 lichtkind not too strict but to have a plan
19:44 lichtkind or else its a nightmare if we have more than one author
19:50 masak joined #perl6book
20:06 dalek book: 0b0d299 | moritz++ | src/multi-dispatch.pod:
20:06 dalek book: first initial stub on an introduction to multi dispatch
20:06 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/0b0d2994f2be4052b1bf4c4ffac16bca70462d1d
20:43 lichtkind moritz_: is there consensus what to put into chapter one?
20:44 moritz_ lichtkind: there's consesus that it will be written last
20:44 lichtkind why?
20:45 moritz_ (phone, bbl)
20:45 lichtkind right
20:52 moritz_ back
20:52 moritz_ lichtkind: all later chapters build on the first one, so it's good to know what needs to be in that chapter when we write it
20:55 lichtkind and i thought they build on each other
20:55 moritz_ that too
20:55 moritz_ man recursion ;-)
20:55 lichtkind doesn't make completely sense to me
20:56 moritz_ well, it's not a very intuitive idea
20:56 moritz_ but it was proposed to us by people who have some experience writing books
21:06 Tene I can confirm; it's a good idea.
21:06 masak it's also an excellent way to learn things.
21:07 lichtkind so more important the squeeze everything about one topic into a chapter is to have a good code
21:08 masak that's what I think, too.
21:08 masak well, 'good' as in 'a fitting example'.
21:08 masak much like in the Exigeses.
21:09 FOAD_ joined #perl6book
21:16 PerlJam I was thinking that a hangman game might make a good first chapter example
21:16 PerlJam (not Ovid's OOPy version though)
21:17 PerlJam you can cover lexicals, scalars, arrays, hashes, loops, subroutines, etc.  (almost all of the basics) pretty easily
21:18 PerlJam But the last time I thought about it, I thought that it would be a very short chapter and not cover everything.
21:28 moritz_ well, one can digress, and go deeper into various subjects than necessary for the example
21:32 lichtkind i would like something more positive than hangman
21:32 moritz_ unhangman?
21:32 PerlJam you know when you guys said "like the exegeses" the other day, I really thought of it more like Goedel Escher Bach with two voices explaining the same things in different ways.  I wonder how well that would work out?
21:32 PerlJam lichtkind: well, some simple game of similar complexity then.  I'm not married to hangman  :)
21:34 lichtkind :)
21:34 moritz_ speaking of positive approaches... suggest something more positive then ;-)
21:35 lichtkind i will tell if i found
21:35 lichtkind anyway i more for the just do it approach
21:36 PerlJam lichtkind: then please, just do it :)  I and others will riff off of whatever you do if it fits.
21:36 moritz_ well, you have to have an idea what to do to do it
21:37 moritz_ *in order to do it
21:46 lichtkind yes i currently more on my wxperl stuff but since i do p6tuts for some time i think next weeks will show what ideas come up
21:47 lichtkind hooray i managed to load the book via git
23:16 cognominal what is the forlder hierarchy for translations? I have started the french translation
23:16 masak whoa. :)
23:20 cognominal we (les mongueurs de Perl) publish article on perl in the french linuxmag, so I hope we can make that a special issue when it is finished
23:20 cognominal *articles

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