Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6book, 2009-10-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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08:34 moritz_ Util: hi, just read the backlog
08:34 moritz_ Util: not using JSON::Tiny is fine - it just provides two examples, but by no means should explain everything
08:34 moritz_ hugme: add Util to book
08:34 * hugme hugs Util. Welcome to book!
08:35 moritz_ Util: you can now push to main repo, I find that easier than forks
08:36 moritz_ Util: just a quick note on coding style - you should always use whitespaces around infix operators
08:36 moritz_ return ( ( $die1==6 && $die2==6 ) ?? 'lucky' !! 'not lucky' );
08:37 moritz_ the problem without whitespaces is that 3<4 is parsed as a subscript like %hash<key>
08:43 moritz_ Util: I'd also use - instead of _ in underscores
08:44 moritz_ sub convert-to-kelvin($temperatur, $unit)
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17:16 masak meeting tonight?
17:16 jnthn when?
17:17 masak that's another good question.
17:19 moritz_ good questions.
17:19 moritz_ I totally forgot
17:20 moritz_ what's our usual meeting time? 18H UTC? or 1830?
17:21 * masak checks
17:21 moritz_ since last weekend I only have 1 hour difference to UTC
17:22 moritz_ need to get used to that ;-)
17:22 masak ditto.
17:22 masak 18H UTC.
17:22 moritz_ wfm
17:22 moritz_ so in 38 minutes
17:22 masak moritz_: did you ever announce the book on use.perl.org?
17:23 moritz_ masak: no
17:23 masak ok, it was just a suggestion?
17:23 moritz_ we (fsvo "we") decided to wait until we have more to buzz about ;-)
17:23 masak I happened to see it in the logs from two weeks ago just now.
17:23 masak ok, might be a good idea.
17:23 masak let's write more to buzz about! :)
17:25 masak by the way, I saw people discussing CSV parsing today as if it wasn't a problem requiring a grammar solution.
17:25 masak that might be the case, if you choose to solve a subset of the CSV format, one without quotes.
17:26 masak as soon as you involve quotes, line-by-line parsing and split on commas goes right out the window.
17:26 moritz_ yes, sure
17:28 masak don't know if this is an absolute argument against doing a CSV example with line-by-line and split (because it might encourage a suboptimal solution to a problem better solved in modules), but I think it's at least worth taking into account.
17:28 jnthn Aye, there is that.
17:29 jnthn We don't have to say it's CVS
17:29 jnthn We could instead say we've got a file of numbers or something comma separated, or even tab separated.
17:29 moritz_ ok, here is my secret plan:
17:29 moritz_ a table tennis tournament
17:29 moritz_ for each match, the referee writes down a line like
17:30 moritz_ Player1 : Player2 | 3 : 2
17:30 moritz_ and every player plays against every other
17:30 moritz_ so in the end we want to
17:30 moritz_ 1) print a matrix with all the results
17:30 moritz_ 2) determine the winner
17:31 jnthn That could be a nice idea.
17:32 moritz_ endofsecritplan
17:33 moritz_ (and I just happen to like table tennis ;-)
17:39 masak does table tennis have a saner scoring system than regular tennis? :)
17:39 moritz_ yes
17:39 jnthn Man I hope so.
17:39 jnthn I never understood tenis scoring.
17:39 moritz_ it uses all integers, not just 0, 15, 30, 40
17:40 jnthn Actually the only thing I really understood about normal tennis is that if I watch it, I might get to see Anna Kournikova. :-)
17:40 moritz_ and instead of "advantage" and "deuce" you just continue counting 11:10, 11:11 etc.
17:41 masak moritz_: so, when do you stop?
17:42 moritz_ masak: if abs($a - $b) >= 2 && ($a max $b) >= 11
17:42 * masak suspected that
17:44 moritz_ pre-posting my report:
17:44 moritz_ What I did last week:
17:44 moritz_ * Wrote a Makefile, included the SVG in the PDF output
17:44 moritz_ * Clarified things based on feedback
17:44 moritz_ * wrote a technical TODO list of things we have to fix at some point
17:44 moritz_ * Made the first release. Most feedback was positive or helpful ;-)
17:44 moritz_ * RX: look-around assertions, match objects
17:44 moritz_ * grammars: grammar inheritance
17:44 moritz_ What I plan to do this week:
17:44 moritz_ * write about action methods in the grammar chapter
17:44 moritz_ * maybe add an excursion about better error messages
17:44 moritz_ * Start with the first chapter (see backlog for example idea)
17:45 moritz_ What I'm blocking on
17:45 moritz_ * tuits, health
17:45 masak moritz_: get well soon!
17:46 moritz_ masak: thanks. So far just forerunners of a flu, so nothing grave
17:46 masak did last week: helped with release, started on the toolchain which others then perfected. adapted the Makefile to work on Mac OS X.
17:46 masak plan to do this week: try to think of more examples.
17:46 masak blocking on: nothing much.
17:46 masak .eor
17:47 jnthn report:
17:47 jnthn What I did in the last week:
17:47 jnthn * Erm, er, I failed
17:47 jnthn * Well, I was at the Italian Perl workshop...
17:47 jnthn * ...and did do some nice patches for Rakudo...
17:47 jnthn * ...so you may forgive me.
17:47 jnthn What I plan to do this week:
17:47 jnthn * Write more of the OO chapter
17:47 jnthn * Try and think up a nice example involving roles
17:47 jnthn EOR
17:47 jnthn oh, forgot
17:47 jnthn Blockers
17:47 jnthn * Probably none for the coming week - I've nowhere to go, and some non-Perl 6 projects are close to wrapping up
17:48 moritz_ masak: now explain what Yuval has got to do with it ;-) # SCNR
17:48 masak moritz_: :)
17:58 pmichaud What I did last week:
17:58 pmichaud * Reviewed the released book, was impressed
17:58 pmichaud * Fixed a couple of typos
17:58 pmichaud * Coded instead of writed.
17:58 pmichaud What I plan to do this week:
17:58 pmichaud * More of the same
17:58 pmichaud * Perhaps write up the cards example as a potential chapter
17:58 pmichaud * Steal the book tools so I can start work on an NQP/PCT book :)
17:58 pmichaud EOR
18:00 moritz_ it's meeting time!
18:01 moritz_ any questions?
18:01 moritz_ all in all I'm rather pleased
18:01 moritz_ and want to point out that have a fair number of contributors already
18:02 masak \o/
18:02 jnthn No questions as such. I'm looking for a good example for a roles chapter, or inspiration that may go in to one.
18:02 moritz_ I did have a question earlier, but forgot it. Should have written it down :/
18:02 jnthn I'd really rather the example came before the text.
18:03 masak I've had loose thoughts about doing something with Sets and graphs, which would probably lead to Rakudo getting more Set/Hashset functionality.
18:04 moritz_ masak: things that might go into rakudo are a bad example for the book
18:04 moritz_ because they might become superfluous, and won't run because the types already exist ;-)
18:05 masak no, I meant I plan to patch Rakudo as I write the example. :)
18:05 jnthn I think masak meant giving Rakudo ... right.
18:05 moritz_ ah
18:06 moritz_ +1 on having examples first (as jnthn++ pointed out)
18:07 moritz_ anything else we want/need to discuss?
18:08 moritz_ seems like not, meeting adjourned
18:08 moritz_ thanks everybody
18:08 jnthn wow, quick!
18:08 jnthn :-)
18:11 masak short++
18:13 jnthn Indeed.
18:34 jnthn btw, if anyone wants to smoke my latest push to Rakudo, that'd be great.
18:34 jnthn It was another quite sizable change.
18:35 jnthn At least, in terms of what it did.
18:35 * jnthn -> shop
18:36 moritz_ jnthn: smoke already running, and in S05
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18:39 jnthn moritz_++ # thanks
18:39 jnthn really going to shop now
19:02 * jnthn glances at #perl6, then decides to hide on #perl6book :-)
19:04 moritz_ he
19:07 moritz_ jnthn: all tests passes, except Unicode.t and IO-Socket-INET.t
19:11 masak same here, but I only had the failure in IO-Socket-INET.t
19:11 moritz_ that's fairly new but consistent
19:11 masak it used to show up inconsistently ever since that module was created.
19:12 masak perhaps new Rakudo features have made the problem more stable. :)
19:13 jnthn ;-)
19:13 jnthn moritz_: OK, good to know...and unicode.t - I dunno what to do with. :-|
19:13 jnthn moritz_: Out of curiosity, if you write a test with a unicode'd named parameter and then do --target=pir on it, does the name as it shows up in the code putting the signature together look OK?
19:16 moritz_ jnthn: I get "Malformed UTF-8 string" during compilation to PIR :/
19:16 jnthn moritz_: oh.
19:16 moritz_ sub f(:$ä) { say $ä;
19:16 moritz_ }
19:16 moritz_ f :ä<ü>;
19:16 moritz_ that's the code I used for testing
19:16 jnthn What, it doesn't even get so far as --target=pir giving output?
19:16 moritz_ correct
19:17 jnthn oh ouch.
19:18 masak are you discussing #perl6 matters on #perl6book because TimToady and dmq are being offtopic on #perl6? :)
19:18 moritz_ yes ;-)
19:18 moritz_ sorry to the other book writers ;-)
19:19 masak I'm just glad I know the new hip place to be as the old place gets taken over by trolls. :P
19:19 jnthn lol
19:20 jnthn I'm not quite sure trolls is the word. ;-)
19:21 masak me neither. I'll get back to you when I find a better word.
19:22 moritz_ replace trolls by "trolls" ;-)
19:22 jnthn It's all in the air quotes.
19:28 moritz_ masak: do you have icu installed?
19:28 masak moritz_: no.
19:28 moritz_ that probably makes the difference
19:28 masak aye.
19:28 jnthn aye, I need to install icu.
19:30 jnthn btw, I noticed that parsing nested sigs is like, really easy.
19:30 moritz_ it is? cool
19:30 jnthn Yeah
19:31 jnthn Unless there's some blocker I don't see, at this point I'm quite possibly only a few hours of hacking off a first cut.
19:32 jnthn I was going to put it off in master and do it in the new grammar bracnh, until I saw how little parsing effort it should take to do them in master anyway.
19:32 jnthn And that the real work to do them is elsewhere, in stuff that will stay the same between the two.
19:34 jnthn Also, in theory, it's like a couple of lines change/addition in the multi-dispatcher to have us able to pick multi-candidates by nested signatures (as constraints).
19:35 jnthn <ontopic>We may be able to get a cool example in the book for that!</ontopic> ;-)
19:35 moritz_ YaY
19:44 masak \o/
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