Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6book, 2009-11-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:26 dalek joined #perl6book
00:30 dalek joined #perl6book
01:58 dalek book: af7253e | chromatic++ | src/classes-and-objects.pod:
01:58 dalek book: Edited classes and objects chapter:
01:58 dalek book:     * modest prose editing
01:58 dalek book:     * some formatting cleanup
01:58 dalek book:     * added a few suggestions for further improvement
01:58 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/af7253e1ddafeb4659999b944c2dd1808e92924a
02:00 jnthn chromatic++ # thanks, I plan to work on that chapter more in the next couple of days :-)
02:00 jnthn chromatic: I see:
02:00 jnthn X<encapsulation>
02:01 jnthn X<classes; encapsulation>
02:01 jnthn Are those for index entries, or something else? And what's the significance of putting both in?
02:02 chromatic They're index entries.
02:03 jnthn OK.
02:03 jnthn The ; is so we get an entry like
02:03 jnthn classes
02:03 jnthn encapsulation
02:03 jnthn attributes
02:03 jnthn etc?
02:03 chromatic X<classes; encapsulation> adds an encapsulation entry under the classes entry.
02:03 chromatic Hierarchical index.
02:03 jnthn Nice.
02:03 jnthn Thanks.
02:04 jnthn I've taken note of the =begin programlisting syntax and will use that from now on too.
02:05 masak chromatic: good changes all-in-all. chromatic++
02:06 jnthn masak: huh? You're in my timezone and still concious too! :-)
02:06 masak jnthn: yes. an even number of us must be up too late. :P
02:06 jnthn Even in Latvia. :-)
02:06 * jnthn is looking forward to The Trip.
02:06 * masak too
02:07 jnthn Will be fun checking in for all(3,4) nights. ;-)
02:07 masak :)
02:07 * masak pictures a junction of waiters on the fourth day, one yelling 'get out' and the other saying 'good morning, sir'
02:08 jnthn We simultaneously have and don't have bacon.
02:09 jnthn Gee, I hope that quantum entanglement collapses in a tasty way.
02:09 chromatic Most everything looks fine; most of my changes were noting where the order of explanation is missing something and otherwise polishing prose.
02:09 masak it'll be simultaneously tasty and unsatisfactory.
02:10 jnthn chromatic: One of the =for author comments confused me, but that's probably because it's 3am. I'll get back to you if concious me still finds it confusing. :-)
02:10 dalek book: 424541e | masak++ | src/classes-and-objects.pod:
02:10 dalek book: [OO] added back a lost full stop
02:10 dalek book: review: http://github.com/perl6/book/commit/424541ee9511a118ad9b245be2de76599c985ec6
02:11 masak jnthn: so, who do you think first makes it to #perl6 tomorrow? :P
02:12 jnthn masak: I'm really not sure.
02:12 jnthn masak: I know that I had to look up "insomnia" in my Slovak dictionary today to explain why I slept all morning to my Slovak teacher...
02:12 masak :/
02:12 masak what's the word?
02:13 jnthn nespavost
02:13 masak beautiful.
02:13 jnthn Which is wonderuflly logical.
02:13 masak spac = sleep?
02:14 jnthn infinitiv is spat
02:14 masak ah.
02:14 jnthn Soft t on the end.
02:14 jnthn All Slovak infinitives end in soft t.
02:14 masak convenient.
02:14 jnthn Yeah. I like that.
02:14 jnthn ne is just like "not" or whatever.
02:14 masak nodnod.
02:14 jnthn Nespal som = "I didn't sleep" or some such.
02:15 masak 'som'?
02:15 jnthn som = I am
02:15 masak o.O
02:15 jnthn (more)
02:15 jnthn When you do past tense for anything other than third person, you insert the appropriate present tense conjugation of "to be"
02:16 masak that's... insane.
02:16 jnthn Well
02:16 jnthn The thing is that when you conjugate the verb itself for the past tense, you lose information.
02:17 masak yes, I see that.
02:17 masak but Russian manages well without 'am' in that sentence.
02:17 jnthn In Russian, it's disambiguated 'cus you don't drop pronouns much when using the past tense.
02:17 masak ah.
02:17 masak ok, now I see it.
02:17 jnthn In Slovak we always drop them, unless you really need emphasis.
02:18 masak the 'to be' verb stands in for the pronoun.
02:18 masak except in third person, where it's implicit.
02:18 jnthn the other annoyance is...
02:19 jnthn Bol som v Rusku # I was in Russian
02:19 jnthn erm, Russia
02:19 jnthn but
02:19 masak lovely language, Slovak.
02:19 jnthn Ked som bol v Rusku, cital som knihy.
02:19 jnthn # When I was in Russian, I read books.
02:19 masak sure.
02:19 jnthn Note the "som" moved.
02:19 masak oh.
02:20 jnthn Ked = "when"
02:20 masak nod.
02:20 masak we have the same in Swedish!
02:20 jnthn There's a bunch of things in Slovak that slot into "second position"
02:20 masak I didn't even reflect on it as something strange. :)
02:20 jnthn In a tree-ish sense of second position.
02:20 masak nod.
02:20 masak yiddish too.
02:20 jnthn Yeah, it tripped me up quite a bit when I was first doing past tense.
02:20 jnthn But I highly doubted it was unusual.
02:21 jnthn Where does Swedish do it?
02:21 masak hold on, let me try it first.
02:21 masak Ked som cital knihy, nespal som.
02:21 masak did I get that right?
02:22 masak # When I was reading books, I didn't sleep.
02:23 jnthn Yes
02:24 jnthn There's a couple of exceptions (a = and, ale = but, alebo = or, never cause the re-ordering)
02:25 jnthn Pil som vela piva, ale nebol som opity # for example
02:25 jnthn (I drunk lots of beer, but I wasn't drunk.)
02:25 masak We have three types of word order in Swedish. (1) normal phrases 'jag äter inte' (2) questions and subordinate phrases 'äter jag inte' (3) phrases with an adverbial in them 'jag inte äter'.
02:26 masak jnthn: that makes sense, those aren't the same type of word as 'Ked'
02:26 jnthn Right.
02:26 masak your phrase falls under case (3) above.
02:26 jnthn Just good to note for completeness. :-)
02:26 jnthn jag = I?
02:26 masak yes.
02:26 jnthn You'll have to translate the other two words for me, sorry.
02:27 masak 'a' and 'ale' don't change it because they're not in 'first place' in the phrase.
02:27 masak äter = eat
02:27 jnthn Yeah, they're kinda not even in the phrase, in a sense.
02:27 masak inte = not
02:27 masak jnthn: they're conjunctions and disjunctions; the glue between phrases.
02:27 jnthn Right.
02:28 jnthn I guess (1) just comes yout as "I didn't eat", the second could be more "Didn't I eat?" and the third?
02:28 masak I could have written 'jag äter inte' as 'NP VP Adv'.
02:29 jnthn OK. Change of meaning, or some subtle implication?
02:29 masak jnthn: the third: 'yesterday, I didn't eat'
02:29 masak jnthn: no, the three word orders are simply to be used in three disjunct sets of circumstances in a sentence.
02:29 masak a _very_ easy shibboleth for non-natives.
02:30 jnthn Yeah
02:30 jnthn I actually probably will soon start making some kinda effort to learn Swedish.
02:30 masak it was only a matter of time :)
02:30 jnthn Well, it's not unlikely I'll end up living there for a while.
02:30 masak \o/
02:31 jnthn A lot of my non-Perl 6 work comes from Sweden.
02:31 masak same here :)
02:31 jnthn Well, given the about of masak-bugs I close, a lot of my Perl 6 work does too :-P
02:31 masak :P
02:32 jnthn But the latest possibility is that I do some stuff that needs me to come over to Sweden physically to do it...and if I have to do that regularly, well...
02:32 jnthn ...I'm not a huge fan of flights anyway, and it's hardly great environmentally.
02:32 masak loljnthninsweden!
02:32 jnthn Plus Sweden is a really nice country.
02:32 masak it is? oh, good.
02:33 jnthn Oh, I've always enjoyed my visits.
02:33 jnthn I'd probably be in the south.
02:33 jnthn South-west-ish
02:33 jnthn Well, very south west I guess...Malmo area.
02:34 masak that's South :)
02:34 jnthn Yeah :-)
02:35 jnthn I quite like that area.
02:35 jnthn It's in reach of Gothenburg too, which I really like.
02:36 jnthn I guess I'd miss central Europe too.
02:36 jnthn So...lots to weigh up.
02:36 jnthn It's the second most likely option after "stay in Slovakia" though. :-)
02:36 masak the first being...?
02:37 jnthn Well, the first being "stay in Slovakia" :-)
02:37 masak that's not an option after your stay in Slovakia. :)
02:38 masak it may be late, but you can't fool me. :P
02:38 jnthn Gah.
02:38 jnthn Thing is, I didn't learn English at school. I was left to figure it out for myself. :-)
02:39 masak I can tell. :)
02:39 jnthn :-P
02:39 masak though this is more a case of 'logic' than 'English' :)
02:39 masak oh well, as long as we don't let you near any critical codebases, we should be OK. :P
02:39 jnthn Oh, I might have studied some of that...somewhere...
02:40 jnthn Yeah...good plan. pmichaud realized that and got me working in a branch.
02:40 jnthn :-P
02:40 masak jnthn: did you see the big discussion earlier tonight?
02:40 jnthn Yeah.
02:40 jnthn I actually backlogged it all.
02:41 jnthn I wasn't avoiding participating.
02:41 jnthn I was rather distracted by another discussion elsewhere.
02:41 jnthn Which kinda needed me to really think lots and hard.
02:41 masak I didn't think you were avoiding it. :)
02:42 jnthn :-)
02:42 jnthn I'm very happy to see it.
02:43 masak (switching over to #perl6)
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14:17 PerlJam btw, that discussion yesterday about the relationship between Perl 5 and Perl 6 should probably make its way into the book somehow  (as long as we're reframing things)
14:17 moritz_ PerlJam: yes, I think it should go into the preface
14:18 moritz_ PerlJam: and since you wrote it, I know the perfect man for that job :-)
14:18 PerlJam heh
14:18 moritz_ thank you for volunteering :-)
14:18 PerlJam okay, I'll write something up this weekend
14:54 masak PerlJam++
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