Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6book, 2010-06-12

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Time Nick Message
01:48 vapace joined #perl6book
02:06 eternaleye joined #perl6book
06:31 eternaleye joined #perl6book
06:37 * PerlJam is in favor of a way to build the book for either a4 or letter sized paper.
06:43 lucs PerlJam: I can send a patch for that.
11:24 masak joined #perl6book
20:46 eternaleye joined #perl6book
21:08 lucs Um, a4 vs letter, with their different default margin settings, will cause different page breaks, and thus different page numbering between the versions.
21:08 lucs I'll try to propose something that does not have that problem.
21:14 lucs joined #perl6book
21:51 pronik joined #perl6book
23:22 pronik ugh
23:22 pronik sometimes I really hate LaTeX
23:23 lucs Who doesn't? ;)
23:24 pronik so, a question to those still awake: would you rather have line wrap and syntax highlighting in the code examples in the book or unicode characters and code highlighting via B<> etc?
23:24 lucs Problems building the book?
23:24 pronik I actually like LaTeX, especially for what it can do being like 30 years old
23:24 pronik but it struggles with "modern" stuff
23:24 lucs I have a love/hate relationship with it.
23:25 lucs I love what it can do, but I hate how much trouble I have to go to to figure out how to do it.
23:25 pronik exactly
23:25 pronik nowadays, I almost always go with PrinceXML for generated publishing
23:25 pronik but there is no OSS alternative to it :(
23:26 lucs Oh :/
23:26 pronik anyway, would you like to look at something?
23:26 lucs Er, I guess.
23:26 pronik http://rassie.org/book.pdf
23:26 pronik I'm trying to put some lipstick onto the book
23:27 lucs Oh, nice.
23:27 pronik however, if you look at the exercise in the "Basics" chapter, you'll notice some latex markup
23:27 pronik which sucks, since it's not possible to get it to execute cleanly inside a code environment
23:28 lucs On which page does the problem occur?
23:28 pronik however, an alternative which would in fact allow such highlighting lacks syntax highlighting and line wrap
23:28 pronik page 16 for example
23:28 lucs Oh, I see :(
23:29 pronik on the more positive side, look at page 10 line 24 in the top example
23:29 lucs Right, that's nice.
23:30 pronik Somehow, I wouldn't want to lose syntax HL, but on the other hand, marking certain code parts to show what has changed is really nifty too
23:30 pronik and we can't have both :(
23:31 pronik any thoughts on this?
23:32 lucs Not really, sorry.
23:32 lucs FWIW, I'm playing with book-to-latex to be able to build for 'letter' paper in addition to 'a4'.
23:32 lucs Maybe we should combine our efforts.
23:32 pronik probably
23:32 lucs The a4/letter problem is to ensure that page breaks occur at the same place.
23:33 pronik is that at all possible considering different sizes?
23:33 lucs I'm pretty sure it's possible, by forcing proper margins.
23:33 lucs I should know pretty soon.
23:35 pronik should be possible, if your page area is the same
23:36 pronik but I'm not sure whether margin ratios are fine then
23:36 lucs By default, they're not the same, but I believe they can be forced.
23:36 lucs (they == page areas)
23:37 pronik yeah, but if we assume you had perfect margin ratio (golden cut) with a4, can you get a golden cut with letter AND the same printing area dimensions?
23:38 lucs I don't think so.
23:38 lucs My idea is to find dimensions that can fit in both sizes and go with that.
23:39 pronik so one size will look shitty and the other won't :)
23:39 lucs No, no.
23:39 lucs They'll both look shitty :)
23:40 lucs Anyway, I'll let you know when I've got something I think is reasonable.
23:40 pronik thanks
23:40 pronik and I think I'll try prince for the book
23:40 lucs You can generate it from the POD with that?
23:41 pronik from HTML
23:41 lucs Ah, okay.
23:41 pronik using advanced CSS3
23:41 pronik I've done some documentation for work with prince -- I could implement every single bit of Corporate Identity style and it looked really good
23:42 lucs (good tools)++
23:42 lucs (not open source)+-
23:43 pronik (open source community not caring about good typography)--
23:43 pronik you get same bullshit everywhere -- from debian to php
23:43 lucs Apart from the TeX crowd, eh.
23:44 pronik (tex crowd not caring about Unicode)--
23:44 pronik I remember trying to get Debian's documentation to generate from docbook to PDFs in different languages
23:44 pronik Greek and CJK broke my neck there
23:44 lucs :(
23:45 lucs UTF-8 support wasn't sufficient?
23:46 pronik no, since Greek TeX is a biest requiring you to type latin and converts in on-the-fly to greek letters
23:46 lucs Yuck.
23:46 pronik and CJK requires you to actually switch languages with \language{Chinese} because of the completely different typography
23:46 lucs Oh, I see. Bleah.
23:46 pronik you probably can figure out how easy it is to include such language switching in the generated source
23:47 pronik I actually like the concept, it's just not the right one for generated sources
23:47 pronik TeX needs a "Modern Perl" revolution :)
23:48 lucs Doesn't look like that's gonna happen.
23:49 lucs Gotta go eat; talk to you later.

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