Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6book, 2010-07-08

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Time Nick Message
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09:53 dalek book: 19a45cb | (Dean Serenevy)++ | bin/book-to-latex:
09:53 dalek book: Properly render side bars.
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17:34 lucs Hola pronik.
17:42 moritz_ oh hai
17:46 lucs Hi moritz_.
17:46 lucs I just pushed "layout-basic" branch for the book.
17:46 lucs Email to follow shortly.
17:47 moritz_ lucs++
17:48 lucs I was going to keep working on it for a while before pushing it, but seeing that you merged Dean S.'s sidebars prompted me to hurry up :-)
17:49 moritz_ sorry, didn't meant to put you under pressure
17:49 moritz_ I just wanted to have the code in the 'main' branch that was used for the last release
17:49 lucs Bah, no problem -- it cuts down on my laziness :)
17:50 moritz_ what's the relation between layout-basics and latex-tweaking?
17:51 lucs They're similar -- explanations in the email.
17:51 moritz_ ok
17:51 lucs Do you happen yo have Dean Serenevy's email close? I'd like to CC: him.
17:52 moritz_ dean@serenevy.net
17:52 lucs Thanks.
17:52 moritz_ make[1]: Entering directory `/home/moritz/p6/book/build'
17:52 moritz_ ! Font \zf@basefont=Inconsolata at 10.0pt not loadable: Metric (TFM) file or in
17:52 moritz_ stalled font not found.
17:52 moritz_ \zf@fontspec ...ntname \zf@suffix " at \f@size pt  \unless \ifzf@icu \zf@set@...
17:52 moritz_ l.21 \setmonofont{Inconsolata}
17:52 moritz_ a missing font I suppose?
17:52 lucs Yep.
17:53 lucs Like "latex-tweaking", it needs a lot of stuff.
17:53 * moritz_ tries texlive-fonts-extra
17:53 lucs The README mentions ubuntu packages that I believe supply what is needed.
17:53 lucs Hopefully that's the one.
17:54 lucs Hey, do you also happen to have PerlJam's address?
17:54 moritz_ just a sec...
17:54 lucs (I know his name, but no address close...)
17:54 moritz_ duff@pobox.com
17:54 lucs Danke.
17:54 moritz_ it's right in 'git log' :-)
17:54 lucs Oh, right :)
18:01 lucs (mail sent)
18:07 pronik moritz_: you'd probably need ttf-inconsolata :)
18:08 pronik but I remember taking that one out
18:09 lucs pronik: Which tt font do you recommend?
18:10 lucs (Not TrueType, but "typewriter" :-)
18:11 lucs (teletype?)
18:11 pronik that's a good question -- I've looking myself for a good alternative
18:11 pronik DejaVu Mono didn't cut it because of french quotes
18:11 lucs Hard indeed to find good free fonts :/
18:12 lucs MinionPro and what-was-the-other-one look pretty nice, but they're non-free, right?
18:12 pronik free to use, IIRC
18:13 pronik come bundled with acrobat
18:13 pronik MyriadPro is the other
18:13 lucs Right.
18:13 lucs But can we publish something using them?
18:13 pronik I think so, even though I'd prefer not to
18:13 pronik however, there are virtually no good fonts out there, so maybe we haven't got another chance
18:14 lucs FOr technical, or legal reasons?
18:14 pronik more like purity reasons
18:14 pronik "we are all open-source" and that stuff
18:14 pronik i.e. I wouldn't push for non-free fonts
18:15 lucs s/open-source/free/ </rms>
18:15 pronik but I personally wouldn't object either, as long as they're good looking
18:15 lucs I lean more towards your side too.
18:16 pronik ubuntu is gonna release some fonts soon, I wonder how they look in print
18:16 lucs (Note to self: cereal without enough milk tastes really dry :/ )
18:17 pronik lucs: so, onto your branch
18:17 pronik I'
18:17 pronik damn
18:17 pronik you are going to send a mail about it, right?
18:17 lucs It's sent.
18:17 pronik ah, you did already
18:19 pronik so, my points about that
18:19 lucs There were enough important changes compared to latex-tweaking that I though I might be better to make a new branch.
18:19 pronik agree on the syntax highlighting -- moritz_ and I wanted to try a hackaton to put perl6 support into pygments
18:20 pronik footers and headers -- gotta look at them more carefully, no idea what happened there
18:20 pronik cargo cult killing -- definitely for it :)
18:20 lucs :)
18:21 pronik makefile -- I'm not sure about this one. Generally a good idea, I normally use rubber for that, but rubber is a) python and b) doesn't support xetex
18:21 pronik but it probably would be better to somehow link it to the upstream, so that we won't play catch-up
18:21 lucs I've been using that makefile for a while, it usually works well.
18:21 pronik but a low-prio for now, good that it's in there
18:22 pronik test book -- great idea!
18:22 pronik smart quotes -- I think I had them already, probably got lost with the cargo cult
18:22 lucs (I also had to tweak the makefile to use xetex, so I may have broken it a bit -- nothing obvious though.)
18:23 pronik and I'm also still completely unsure why we need same page numbering for letter and a4
18:23 pronik same inner page dimensions will look wrong in both a4 and letter. And besides -- what if we introduce a a5 format?
18:24 lucs Well, basically just so if someone says something like "I don't understand the code on page 42", everyon is on the same page.
18:24 pronik is "I don't understand the code in listing 5.12" better?
18:24 lucs But yes, it's true, we end up with suboptimal dimensions in all paper sizes like that.
18:26 lucs You know, I was thinking that one format that might really benefit from improvement is the HTML.
18:26 lucs Not too many people will actually be printing a work-in-progress book, will they?
18:26 pronik how many people would read a wip book anyway? ;)
18:27 pronik But I'd prefer a PDF version, mostly because pod2html formatting uses the whole page width, which is rather painful to read
18:27 lucs Well, at least it's cheap if it's just on the computer screen :)
18:27 lucs Yeah, it would be nice to have an improved pod2html with css possibilities.
18:27 pronik my build fails at hyperref :(
18:28 pronik I've been thinking about extending Pod::Elemental to support PseudoPod
18:28 lucs Oh, strange. You have hyperred in latex-tweaking.
18:28 pronik I think it's more future-proof than current Pod::PseudoPod patching und subclassing
18:28 lucs Er, hyperref
18:29 lucs Ah. (never looked at Pod::Elemental)
18:31 lucs I was thinking that we could have different rendering mechanisms by keeping all the LaTeX stuff in different branches (for example, layout-basic, layout-verywide, layout-tinypaper, whatever) which could be rebased onto master, where the authors just update the src/ directory.
18:32 lucs (Note that I took out LaTeX stuff from latex-tweaking's src/)
18:33 pronik moritz_ mentioned that chromatic was going to publish this book, so maybe it's time to ask chromatic how they are going to layout the whole thing
18:34 pronik maybe staying with clean html is the better way, if chromatic just layouts everything with (let's say) Scribus
18:34 lucs And maybe the publisher can supply us with shiny fonts :)
18:34 pronik I'd prefer PrinceXML anyway, but it's not free in any definition of "free"
18:37 pronik but let's reiterate: if we put back headers and footers and throw out the paper dimensions (still leaving the possibility to choose paper size), we could merge this stuff to master, right?
18:37 pronik then we can iteratively fix small problems like the tilde not showing etc
18:38 pronik oh btw, maybe we could use the github issue tracker at last to note all of our visual problems
18:39 lucs Did you get it to build?
18:39 lucs Note that it does have headers/footers, just not as nice as yours.
18:40 pronik yes and no -- your xelatex tweaks didn't seem to work so I built this whole thing manually
18:40 pronik I'll look into patching it properly
18:41 lucs And about the page dimensions, I guess it's okay for them to be different for different paper sizes. but I believe latex-tweaking's text width is much too big.
18:42 lucs Sorry about the build fail :(
18:42 lucs I suppose it's not obvious what's wrong?
18:43 pronik mostly hyperref
18:44 pronik because it sets pdflatex' options which are wrong for xelatex
18:44 pronik http://code.google.com/p/latex-makefile/issues/detail?id=67
18:45 pronik first thing we need to do is to introduce a Makefile.ini ;)
18:46 lucs I wonder how come I don't have any problems...
18:51 moritz_ hm, now I get
18:51 moritz_ --- Using incorrect driver for hyperref! ---
18:51 moritz_ Using pdflatex: specify pdftex in the hyperref options (or leave it blank).
18:56 lucs Darn. I wonder what's different in my environment.
18:56 pronik moritz_: gonna fix that soon
18:57 pronik lucs: it seems we can completely scrap our makefiles and use only the one by chris monson
18:58 lucs Well, I liked the idea of keeping control on the top level build (for html for example).
18:58 pronik ok, fair enough
19:00 lucs By the wat there are things I don't understand about CM's makefile, for example, it sometimes appears to rebuild the test book even though I'm asking for "make .../UsingPerl6.pdf".
19:00 lucs s/wat/way/
19:01 lucs (I did not have the patience to read the docs; lucs--)
19:01 pronik you should be doing make UsingPerl6.tex
19:01 pronik or wait, scrap that :)
19:02 lucs Oh, that's done in our mak... Right :)
19:02 lucs CM's makefile seems to do a lot without being asked for it, which is +-  :)
19:04 * pronik is back in 15 minutes
19:05 lucs Guys, I'll be leaving soon for the weekend (going to the country \o/), so please do whatever you see fit with all this.
19:05 lucs I guess the test book is the most interesting feature; the rest, you guys decide.
19:06 pronik will do :)
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