Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #phasers, 2010-07-20

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Time Nick Message
07:20 [particle]1 joined #phasers
07:44 [particle] joined #phasers
13:38 masak joined #phasers
17:57 kalve joined #phasers
17:57 kalve left #phasers
18:19 eternaleye joined #phasers
18:32 lue joined #phasers
18:59 masak \o
19:00 lue BEGIN { o/
19:00 masak BEGIN { ... }
19:00 masak dang, the meme was in the air and lue snatched it :)
19:00 * lue also grabbed the EXTERMINATE phaser for later
19:01 jnthn masak terminated his properly though :P
19:01 pmichaud we're done already?  ;-)
19:01 masak jnthn: lue is still a begineer :P
19:01 lue but #phasers isn't over :)
19:01 * PerlJam phases in
19:01 jnthn masak: :P
19:01 masak s/nee/nne/
19:01 mberends joined #phasers
19:01 jnthn masak: Oh, I thought it was a pun on "pioneer" rather than a typo. :P
19:01 pmichaud mberends: o/
19:01 masak ENTER { mberends } \o/
19:02 pmichaud I thought it was a pun on 'engineeer'
19:02 jnthn mberends! \o/
19:02 lue .oO([look at camera] Hello. Welcome to #phasers)
19:02 pmichaud *engineer
19:02 PerlJam I feel like a begineer some times
19:02 masak it wasn't a pun. just accidental Dutch.
19:02 * mberends == JIT for #phasers today ;)
19:03 * lue finds himself in a null PMC :(
19:03 lue .oO(how did I get in here....)
19:03 masak lue: let me count the ways...
19:03 pmichaud lue: check your callframes
19:04 lue the walls are made of... nothing. And yet there are still walls... Halp.
19:04 jnthn So, shall we dig in? :-)
19:04 masak let's.
19:04 pmichaud yes, let's BEGIN.
19:05 jnthn masak: So, how is your rapport with Rakudo this week?
19:05 masak in either sense, it's exceptional :P
19:05 masak I've done some Buf work. not a lot, but still some progress.
19:05 masak Buf IO "works", but there are known encoding issues, and it needs testing in general.
19:06 masak right now, I'm testing Kodi++'s Temporal patch. it's looking good.
19:06 * moritz_ appears
19:06 mberends masak: are you on the last 20% of the Buf work yet that usually takes 80% of the time?
19:07 masak mberends: I'm surprised at how accurate the schedule I threw together has turned out to be.
19:07 mberends \o/
19:07 masak mberends: the only deviation is that some things have come in a different order.
19:07 masak but so far I'm on schedule, and feeling confident about staying on schedule.
19:07 PerlJam masak++
19:07 jnthn masak++
19:08 masak I'll have to be slightly more careful in juggling my time up ahead, as YAPC::EU looms closer. I'm already feeling a slight procrastination pressure on my temples.
19:08 masak but mostly, life is good.
19:08 masak I probably forgot something that I'll remember in a bit.
19:08 masak .eor
19:08 jnthn \o/
19:08 jnthn Let's stick with m. moritz_?
19:08 moritz_ sorry, distracted.. can we postpone me?
19:08 jnthn OK
19:09 jnthn mberends? :-)
19:09 * masak puts moritz_ in a LATER phaser
19:09 mberends ok, not much to report.
19:09 mberends been working on a port of HTTP::Server::Simple::PSGI
19:09 sorear hello.
19:10 mberends and it works, so that the perldancer people can build their Sinatra clone on top of it
19:10 mberends I guess I'll have to start a seed implementation
19:10 masak mberends++
19:11 jnthn Nice
19:11 masak mberends: how does Rakudo ng feel for this task. any especially annoying bugs?
19:11 mberends not bugs on the TCP/IP side, but Buf will help to communicate binary data
19:12 mberends Rakudo is fine as an embedded webserver.
19:12 masak acknowledged.
19:12 mberends I think HTTP/1.1 will need a bit more byte counting to do chunked transfers
19:12 mberends but HTTP/1.0 is fine
19:13 mberends next up I plan to work that async IO select() implementation, although it seems like to become a poll() implementation instead
19:13 mberends poll() is the new select()
19:13 mberends and then we can write telnet clients, irc bots etc more easily
19:14 mberends and maybe begin a POE port
19:14 pmichaud .oO( somehow I never thought I'd read  "Rakudo is fine as an embedded webserver."  :-)
19:14 mberends so poll() could be pretty useful. I'm worried about the short time to do it before R*
19:14 mberends .eor
19:15 jnthn mberends++
19:15 jnthn pmichaud!
19:15 mlue mberends++
19:15 PerlJam mberends: I wouldn't worry /too/ much ... there will be other R* releases
19:15 Tene mberends: I'd love to work with you on that.
19:15 mberends yeah, I should relax :-)
19:15 moritz_ right; we want to give people incentives to upgrade to the next release :-)
19:15 mberends Tene: cool
19:15 Tene I started prototyping a POE clone ages ago.
19:16 pmichaud am I up?
19:16 jnthn pmichaud: You are indeed.
19:16 pmichaud * Had a great time in Hawai'i
19:16 pmichaud * Now in PDX for OSCON this week
19:16 pmichaud * Fixed the bug with Q-named classes
19:16 pmichaud * Fixed backtracking into subrules and capturing subpatterns
19:16 pmichaud * Made some book edits and review notes
19:16 pmichaud * Refactored startup and phasers a bit
19:16 pmichaud * Eliminated LexPad in favor of a simple Hash
19:16 pmichaud eor
19:16 jnthn pmichaud++ # nice fixes
19:16 lue pmichaud++
19:16 jnthn lue?
19:17 lue well, I tried implementing =:=, and found out we need the VAR() macro to make it work right.
19:17 lue that's about it :D
19:17 jnthn OK. :-)
19:18 jnthn colomon++ can't make it but sent a report. Lemme paste it...
19:18 jnthn Done this week:
19:18 jnthn Checked in trig fixes, numeric spec tweaks.  Numeric grant done except
19:18 jnthn for final report.
19:18 jnthn Worried about but cannot fix:
19:18 jnthn Doubled gather / take bug.  (eg trying two greps in a row, or two ... series)
19:18 jnthn Defining new operators in modules (eg Vector module issues)
19:18 jnthn Using <ABC::note> in grammars (eg ABC module issues)
19:18 jnthn Want to fix:
19:18 jnthn Series type issues (eg generating Rats when we should be generating Ints)
19:18 jnthn Range iterator (suspect switching it to series internally will break
19:18 jnthn spectest because of gather / take bug)
19:18 jnthn Modifying hyper to handle lazy arguments
19:18 jnthn Parse decimal numbers at compile-time rather than run-time
19:18 jnthn .eor
19:18 [Coke] ~~
19:18 jnthn colomon++ for grant being pretty much done \o/
19:19 lue \o/ colomon++
19:19 jnthn Who else...ooh, I guess I can go. :-)
19:19 jnthn THIS WEEK
19:19 jnthn * Worked on pls portability. pls itself is now not so bad, but the makefiles it generates are about as portable as a cannon. Kinda stalled on that. Can pick it up again this week if nobody else will.
19:19 jnthn * Lots of work on error message improvements, especially in multi-method dispatch
19:19 jnthn * Fixed one more problem with subset types, though others remain
19:20 jnthn * Ripped out the Int ~~ Num hack and fixed up the tests. Not too much fallout.
19:20 jnthn * Ripped out REJECTS, which is gone from S03. Zero fallout.
19:20 jnthn * Got rid of the BEGIN special casing and updated the rest of the phasers implementation to be able to provide for BEGIN
19:20 jnthn * Did a first very basic cut of the feed operators ==> and <==.
19:20 jnthn * Switched custom operators to work in terms of BEGIN phasers too, fixing a pre-comp problem. Fear I may have introduced a new problem - got a good idea of how to fix it.
19:20 jnthn * Did a first cut of custom circumfixes
19:20 jnthn * Fixed bug with attribute initializers which led to them having the rong outer scope
19:20 jnthn * Also started to unbreak .wrap and .unwrap a bit
19:20 jnthn * Oh, and got myself a shiny new blog too. http://6guts.wordpress.org/
19:20 jnthn * Still thinking through various future meta-model-y things for post-R*, though focused more on R* things this week, and likely will be the same up until R* is released.
19:20 jnthn * Hacked on Test::Mock. Quite happy with it.
19:20 jnthn NEXT WEEK
19:20 jnthn * Fix more bugs in the run-up to R*. Suggestions welcome.
19:20 jnthn * pls can haz portability?
19:20 jnthn * Look at the distribution a bit too as well as the compiler
19:20 jnthn * Procrastinating for YAPC::EU
19:20 jnthn WORRIES
19:20 jnthn * Very concerned still about the role outer chain bug.
19:20 jnthn .eor
19:21 PerlJam jnthn++
19:21 [Coke] I've done nothing! (but am still planning on releasing Atlanta on Thursday.)
19:21 jnthn :-)
19:21 jnthn moritz_: Readier?
19:21 moritz_ yes
19:21 jnthn Go!
19:21 moritz_ DONE
19:21 moritz_ * usual patch applying, testing
19:22 moritz_ * experimented with s:g///. Got a prototype working
19:22 moritz_ * pondered my possible Hague grant application
19:22 moritz_ WORRIES
19:22 moritz_ * the book is not a coherent whole
19:22 moritz_ * we haven't done much wrt distribution setup for Rakudo *
19:22 moritz_ GENERAL_PANIC
19:23 moritz_ .eor
19:23 masak is the lack of bullets under "GENERAL_PANIC" good or bad?
19:23 PerlJam moritz_: was "GENERAL_PANIC" a directive?  :)
19:23 pmichaud I think he was my commanding officer at one point.  :)
19:24 moritz_ masak: it hasn't been shot yet. That explains the lack of bullets
19:24 jnthn :-)
19:24 jnthn Who did I miss who has something to say?
19:24 ash_ has anyone heard from cygx on try.rakudo.org?
19:25 lue [ pmichaud: I had him as a Colonel :) ]
19:25 ash_ because i am about to start working on the back end, since i haven't seen any commits from him in a while
19:25 moritz_ ash_: no, haven't seen him
19:27 ash_ well, i should have time this week to try to get more of try.rakudo.org working, so hopefully that will be useful to someone
19:27 jnthn ash_: Sounds good. :-)
19:27 pmichaud (will  be useful to me )
19:27 moritz_ btw feather3 is now a physical host, not a vm
19:27 moritz_ Juerd++
19:27 Tene Theoretically, I've been recovering a bit lately, so I might do something this week, but I'm not very hopeful, as I've said that before.
19:28 PerlJam Do we have a press date for the book from chromatic?  Or do we need to tell him when?
19:28 * sorear hasn't done much at all with Rakudo lately
19:28 pmichaud chromatic said (iirc) that he needs about 2 weeks notice from when we think we're ready until he can have ready for print
19:29 pmichaud but we definitely need some more review on the book (see my notes added last night)
19:29 * masak would like to have a projected press date set
19:29 PerlJam indeed.
19:29 pmichaud yes, a press date would be good.
19:29 pmichaud I expect there to be another Rakudo Star release in August, perhaps that's a good date.
19:29 PerlJam pmichaud: how soon after R* do you think the "lexical regex" problem could be resolved?  Maybe we just don't change the book
19:29 sorear chromatic is on IRC and non-idle this very minute.  I just pointed him at #phasers
19:30 TimToady maybe just a temp footnote saying "for now you have to write <foo=&foo>
19:30 pmichaud PerlJam: we still need some specification work
19:30 pmichaud PerlJam: I wouldn't plan on it being ready in August.  Lots of other things to do first.
19:30 PerlJam okay
19:30 pmichaud and I expect we'll have a ton of "little bug reports" immediately following R*
19:31 jnthn Aye, I expect so too.
19:31 TimToady and we're really talking full-fledged implicit grammar derivations here, "slangs"
19:31 pmichaud right.
19:31 jnthn Aye, those are some work.
19:32 pmichaud I might be able to cheat a bit in the meantime, along the lines of "regexes declared outside of grammars look locally"
19:32 chromatic joined #phasers
19:32 pmichaud but I don't want people building a lot of code that we know will break.
19:32 chromatic Book press date: whenever we can
19:32 pmichaud book press:  I tentatively propose Aug 26
19:32 PerlJam When's YAPC::EU?
19:32 jnthn Start of Aug
19:32 pmichaud (which is the likely month + 1 release date for Rakudo Star)
19:32 pmichaud YAPC::EU is Aug 4-6
19:32 pmichaud Rakudo hackathon on Aug 3
19:33 colomon joined #phasers
19:33 moritz_ btw we could get a room for the hackathon for ~150 Euro per day
19:33 moritz_ from the hotel
19:33 masak \o/
19:33 chromatic The book will likely take two weeks from submission to print.
19:33 moritz_ chromatic: does that include proper typesetting?
19:33 pmichaud so, we'd need to have the book in a "done" state by Aug 12
19:33 moritz_ or do we have to tweak the latex ourselves?
19:34 jnthn pmichaud: That's quite ambitious given the next week or so will be quite tied up with readying R*, and YAPC::EU will happen after that, which many of us will also be at.
19:34 * lue like LaTeX
19:35 pmichaud jnthn: agreed, it's ambitious.  If too ambitious, let's postpone.
19:35 chromatic The only typesetting I've ever had to tweak is linebreaking.
19:35 mikehh joined #phasers
19:35 chromatic I haven't had to work with a lot of Unicode in any of our books before though.
19:35 pmichaud jnthn: I'm tossing out proposals for people to shoot down.  :)
19:35 moritz_ chromatic: I'm also talking about positioning floats, selecting fonts etc.
19:35 PerlJam pmichaud: we're a too agreeable bunch  :)
19:36 [particle] PerlJam: agreed.
19:36 chromatic moritz_, that's all doable, but the earlier the better.
19:36 pmichaud PerlJam: then consider this an application of "the veto rule"
19:37 jnthn pmichaud: It's only a data point, but at a personal level, I'm highly unlikely to find much time between now and then. I know that there's a lot to do between now and the R* release date, I know that I won't get much in the way of writing done at YAPC::EU 'cus there's people to meet, talks to see/give, beer to drink, etc. After YAPC::EU I've got a few days offline doing family bits.
19:37 PerlJam chromatic: and what about general proofing?  Will it be submitted as PDF?  Who generates the PDF? (where my PDF might look different from your for some reason)
19:37 moritz_ chromatic: well, doing that early doesn't make sense, because when we tweak the text we destroy the layout again
19:37 pmichaud jnthn: ...propose a different date?
19:38 PerlJam What's the next big perl conference after Aug 26?
19:38 pmichaud jnthn: would it make more sense to say that we have the final copy ready on 26, and print is two weeks after that?
19:38 chromatic I mean font selection and some of the other stuff.
19:38 PerlJam maybe we could should for a date that falls just before a conference :)
19:38 jnthn pmichaud: That would certainly allow me a lot more chance to look at it.
19:38 chromatic I can generate the PDF, but if someone else wants to do it and suggest changes and submit it for proofreading, that's good too.
19:39 jnthn pmichaud: Particularly given I can focus on book rather than an iminent first distribution release. :-)
19:40 pmichaud anyway, we can (and should) continue with monthly book PDF releases
19:40 jnthn Yes, +1 on that.
19:40 PerlJam pmichaud: agreed
19:40 moritz_ we haven't sticked to those for quite some time
19:40 pmichaud I vote we try to have to have something in a nearly complete state by August 26
19:40 moritz_ but if somebody wants to throw out a release, feel free
19:40 chromatic The last wc I did showed about 25k words, or 100 pages.
19:41 chromatic 180-200 pages seems right.
19:41 jnthn pmichaud: I think I've a chance of being able to contribute some decent amount before that date.
19:41 jnthn *a very good chance...
19:41 jnthn If it works for @other, works for me.
19:41 pmichaud any objections?
19:41 PerlJam none here
19:42 pmichaud moritz_: I'll cut a release for July.
19:42 moritz_ pmichaud: +1
19:42 masak pmichaud++
19:45 jnthn Between now and R*, I figure there's a few things to focus on. 1) Must-fix bugs. 2) Preparing the distribution release and making sure it installs on various sytems. 3) Preparing release announcement and other related things.
19:46 jnthn At this point, can we identify which things fall into "1" and who can tentatively look at them?
19:46 jnthn (And same for 2 and 3.)
19:46 colomon bugs must be fixed by this thursday?
19:47 jnthn That's largely down to how strongly pmichaud++ feels about the Rakudo in R* being the Thursday release.
19:47 mberends jnthn: I know you know 1) Zavolaj stopped working some time around 3rd July, affecting MiniDBI
19:47 moritz_ that's something that should really be fixed
19:48 jnthn mberends: I'll get to that one either tonight or tomorrow at latest.
19:48 PerlJam jnthn++
19:48 pmichaud I'll do 3 soonish.
19:48 pmichaud (as in, before thursday)(
19:48 pmichaud my plan has been to basically work on 1 and 2 until next thursday
19:48 jnthn Yes, having osme time to review 3 would be good.
19:49 * moritz_ disappears for a while
19:49 PerlJam is the release going to be prepared in the rakudo/star repo?  How are the various things like MiniDBI going to be integrated?  submodules?
19:49 jnthn PerlJam: There's a script in there that, afaict, fetches all of the pieces.
19:49 PerlJam ah.  Clearly I haven't looked in a long while.
19:50 PerlJam oh, no.  I just forgot  :)
19:50 jnthn pmichaud: I'll take on the native call thing. What are our other things that fall into "1"?
19:51 PerlJam jnthn: does blizkost need any love or is it working well?
19:51 jnthn pmichaud: The role outer fix and the chained gather iterator ones seem amongst the most serious.
19:51 colomon +1
19:51 jnthn PerlJam: Last time I tried it, it was. I can give it another look.
19:51 pmichaud I thought chained gather iterator was fixed already.  Do we have a golfed example I can work on?
19:52 jnthn pmichaud: See #perl6
19:52 jnthn Just fed one to the evalbot
19:52 jnthn It's the double-grep
19:52 pmichaud okay, that should be a very easy fix.
19:52 jnthn Or in general, gather/take back to back
19:53 jnthn I hoped you'd say that. :-)
19:53 pmichaud I didn't realize it was still a bug.
19:53 colomon or try doing two series with a Zop
19:54 jnthn pmichaud: On the role outer bug - which of us should take that? Should I, and you can focus on distribution issues a bit more, or do you want it, or?
19:54 colomon I'll try to write some tests for it when I get home
19:54 jnthn pmichaud: I figure it's potentially going to take whoever takes it on quite some effort.
19:55 jnthn pmichaud: Given we've both spent some time on it so far without reaching a fix.
19:55 pmichaud jnthn: we still have the problem of the MAINLINE not seeing the correct outer.
19:55 pmichaud that needs to be resolved first, and then see where we are.
19:55 jnthn pmichaud: Right, that's a pre-cursor to it.
19:56 pmichaud jnthn: so, I'd say whichever of us gets to it first :)
19:56 jnthn OK.
19:56 pmichaud once we have that working, then I think the role outer bug is really better suited for you to fix.
19:56 pmichaud but that precursor has to be taken care of, and either of us are equally well situated to look at it
19:56 pmichaud I suspect I can find the bug with a few hours' work
19:56 pmichaud I just didn't have the hours until this week :)
19:57 jnthn Understand. :-)
19:57 eternaleye joined #phasers
19:59 pmichaud let's ask a slightly different question.  Does anyone feel there are any outstanding bugs that should block an R* release if not fixed by the 29th?
19:59 pmichaud (I say "no.")
19:59 * masak doesn't
19:59 PerlJam those two are the only big ones that I can think of.
19:59 jnthn I'd be uncomfortable releasing with the two I just mentioned. They're quite painful to work around.
19:59 jnthn Beyond that, I have none.
20:00 masak right, I also meant beyond those two.
20:00 pmichaud I think it's safe to assume that gather/take will be fixed (before Atlanta, even)
20:00 * jnthn asn't sure if the question was taking those as given or not
20:00 PerlJam http://wiki.github.com/rakudo/rakudo/whats-going-into-rakudo  mentions and installer that's not-proto.  Does pls qualify?
20:00 pmichaud I have no idea about the role outer bug -- that's really outside my control.
20:01 PerlJam s/and/an/
20:01 masak we could ship with the role outer bug. it would become a FAQ on #perl6, but generally people would understand.
20:01 pmichaud (at least, once I get the main outer fixed)
20:01 masak and there's quite a simple workaround.
20:01 PerlJam masak: simple buy yucky
20:01 PerlJam s/buy/but/
20:01 masak PerlJam: all workarounds are yucky.
20:01 jnthn I'm fairly confident I can implement a "bandaid" style solution if it comes to it.
20:01 pmichaud if we assume there are no blocker bugs, then from there it's a matter of finding the bugs that cause us (or R* users) the most pain and fixing those as well.
20:02 masak PerlJam: they don't get much *less* yucky than that.
20:02 jnthn Not quite the right fix, but righter than having everybody write workarounds.
20:02 jnthn Anyway, we'll see what comes.
20:02 pmichaud anyway, I'm hoping the mainline outer will help there.
20:02 jnthn pmichaud: I hope so too.
20:02 pmichaud also, the spec for YOU_ARE_HERE just changed, so need to look at that a bit.
20:03 jnthn Yeah, I noticed the change, didn't have change to catch onto the implications yet.
20:03 pmichaud I do expect that R* will have monthly releases for the first few months.
20:03 pmichaud to keep a tight cycle on bugfixes.  that only makes sense.
20:03 mberends left #phasers
20:03 colomon +1
20:03 pmichaud (I've even toyed with the idea of biweekly releases)
20:04 mberends joined #phasers
20:04 masak pmichaud: that does not make sense if stars are based off monthlies :)
20:04 [Coke] I would not plan on biweekly. lot of churn.
20:04 jnthn pmichaud: +1. I expect to be digging into big deep changes, but they won't find their way into Rakudo in the first couple of months after R*.
20:05 jnthn pmichaud: And even when they do, they shouldn't cause regressions.
20:05 moritz_ chromatic: one more thing... which paper size the book going to be printed to?
20:05 moritz_ s/to/on/
20:05 jnthn pmichaud: And being responsive to bugs is a Good Thing.
20:05 pmichaud masak: (monthlies)  right, which is why I've kept to "monthly" for now
20:05 pmichaud but if we move off of monthlies, then biweekly works for a short period of time.
20:05 masak pmichaud: I'm also skeptical about bi-weekly.
20:06 pmichaud okay, we'll keep monthly.
20:06 pmichaud maybe we'll make sure to have a way for people to get R* with the latest compiler
20:08 jnthn masak: What's left before we can s/proof_of_concept/pls/ ?
20:09 masak jnthn: same as after the Lund hackathon: testing that more/all projects can be installed; nice packaging.
20:09 masak the 'packaging' wording includes, but is not limited to, a Perl 5 wrapper script, and README/documentation.
20:10 jnthn eek, urgent errand, brb
20:10 jnthn (5 mins)
20:10 masak I'll be happy to guide people through testing it more, and I hope to find the tuits to write wrapper/documentation myself.
20:12 PerlJam Should STD be part of R* ?
20:13 moritz_ no
20:13 PerlJam why not?
20:14 moritz_ because it has quite heavy demands on Perl 5 modules, and is often not what people expect
20:15 masak a person coming to Rakudo for the first time will probably neither think of reaching for STD, nor think to look for instructions to do so.
20:15 TimToady .oO(nobody expects the STD inquisition...)
20:16 lue We have one thing, that's parsing and error messages. Okay, TWO things....
20:16 PerlJam Who is R* for?
20:17 PerlJam I imagine that there are developers out there who would download and use R* and would benefit from some extra help in understanding what went wrong when things blow up
20:18 [particle] that's what #perl6 and p6c is for
20:18 TimToady .oO(STD is just chopped liver :)
20:19 PerlJam [particle]: is there some reason only one path to enlightenment is preferable here?
20:19 [particle] STDs are dangerous
20:19 lue TimToady: at least STD doesn't rely on the Norweigan Blue, lovely plummage.
20:20 colomon is p6c really appropriate?
20:20 [particle] we shouldn't promote it as something that *everyone* should take a look at
20:20 PerlJam ah, so back to my other question ... who is R* for?
20:20 [particle] R* is for everyone, the lowest-common-denominator being that they have some excitement about perl 6 and want to try it
20:21 jnthn back
20:21 [particle] at least, that's what the first release is for
20:21 [particle] or first few releases.
20:21 masak PerlJam: I have a feeling shipping STD will Rakudo will be quite a bit of work with relatively little benefit to people.
20:21 PerlJam masak: I kind of have that feeling too, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there anyway.
20:21 TimToady it's just a CPAN module :)
20:22 PerlJam TimToady: and that's why I even thought about it.
20:22 jnthn Right, people can install it from CPAN now too.
20:22 PerlJam okay, so the "documentation" that comes with R* will say,  "Have fun!  If you need help, ask on #perl6" or something
20:23 masak yay
20:23 [particle] yes, or it will point to rakudo.org, which will point to #perl6, p6u, p6c, etc
20:23 PerlJam right.
20:27 jnthn OK, any more for #phasers today?
20:27 pmichaud are we about done with #phasers?
20:27 pmichaud I'm going to head over to OSCON and get my registration stuff
20:27 pmichaud and then make another attempt at nom-fetching
20:27 masak END { #phasers }
20:27 lue DESTROYALL { ... }
20:28 jnthn o/
20:30 chromatic moritz_, 6x9 I think, the same size as the PIR book.
20:32 moritz_ inches?
20:33 chromatic yes
20:33 * masak counts on fingers
20:33 chromatic Hm, maybe that was 5x8.
20:33 chromatic \usepackage[centering,width=3.75in,height=6.75in,includeall,hcentering,vcentering,marginparsep=0in,marginparwidth=0in]{geometry}
20:34 moritz_ uh
20:34 moritz_ that's even smaller than A5
20:34 moritz_ is that a good choice for a book with many code listings?
20:34 chromatic Maybe, maybe not.  If it looks bad in PDF at that size we can go larger.  That's no problem.
20:35 moritz_ great
21:13 masak left #phasers
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