Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #phasers, 2010-09-21

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
03:54 sorear The worst trolls are the ones that I'm insufficiently certain about to just kick.
04:02 sorear ok, it's now a language bashing fest... can I please start kicking people?
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18:59 masak o/
19:00 Util o/
19:00 jnthn \o
19:01 mberends \o
19:01 masak my report: applied enums patch. \o/ still ways to go on that one, though. also did minor things in IO and Instant. plan for next week: focus on the book. .eor
19:02 mberends masak++
19:03 jnthn masak++
19:03 Util My report: Wrote many Perl 6 solutions for RosettaCode. Attended first #phasers. .eor
19:04 masak Util++
19:04 * moritz_ very much occupied with real life; blogged a bit; started to write a Sudoku solver; small bits here and there.
19:04 masak oh, that reminds me: I now have a blog of my own. it's written in Perl 6! http://strangelyconsistent.org/
19:05 ash_ i made some changes to try.rakudo.org, tried to make the server a bit more stable, blogged about it too
19:05 mberends 6model/java is progressing well, no blockers, simply many more tuits required
19:07 jnthn mberends++
19:07 masak mberends++
19:07 jnthn I has a report
19:08 jnthn Over the last week:
19:08 jnthn * Gave a talk in Oslo to NUUG. Seemed well received, and the video turned out really well too. sjn++ for organizing.
19:08 jnthn * Dug into the Parrot port of 6model. Got pure prototypes in place and able to do method dispatch already.
19:08 jnthn * Started to stub in more representations too
19:08 jnthn * Started to refactor handling of packages/meta-objects in nqp-rx on Parrot
19:08 jnthn This week I want to:
19:08 jnthn * Finish up porting the representations I'll most immediately want/need, especially P6opaque and it's slot calculation.
19:08 jnthn * Wrote the first in a series of explain-y blog posts.
19:08 jnthn * Get nqp-rx handling of knowhow syntax working. Nearly there.
19:08 jnthn * Get attribute access and binding working in 6model. Then port that over to the Parrot implementation.
19:08 jnthn * Start sketching out ClassHOW.
19:08 jnthn Blockers:
19:08 jnthn * Can't emit .loadlib properly yet using PAST -> PIR. Discussed a bit with pmichaud++ - mostly now just need a good name for the thingy.
19:08 jnthn </rapport>
19:08 pmichaud jnthn: I'll add that later tonight or early tomorrow.
19:09 jnthn pmichaud: Oh, outstanding.
19:09 jnthn pmichaud++
19:09 jnthn I was gearing up to do it myself. ;-)
19:09 masak jnthn++ # nuug talk
19:09 jnthn But that means I can focus on the reprs etc.
19:09 moritz_ jnthn++
19:12 mberends jnthn++ indeed
19:14 jnthn mberends: Catch me if you need help working out the stuff in dotnet/compiler/
19:14 jnthn mberends: I readily admit some bits of it may be a tad obtuse. :-)
19:17 mberends jnthn: thanks. I'll add comments here and there to express my (mis)understanding and give others some more explanations. Your blog post related to the code fairly well :)
19:17 jnthn mberends: You made any decisions about whether to keep DNST or to copy it and make JST?
19:17 jnthn (e.g. keep it and write a DNST2Java.pm)
19:18 jnthn We can rename it to something more generic if so.
19:18 mberends jnthn: it's JST in name, but operationally identical where possible
19:18 jnthn mberends: I meant more the data structure than the code working on it. (more)
19:18 jnthn DNST.pm doesn't actually do anything other than specify a bunch of classes that hold stuff.
19:19 jnthn All the logic is in PAST2DNST.pm and DNST2CSharp.pm
19:20 mberends I renamed all occurrences of DN to keep a clear separation. We can merge whenever we feel like it, they're so close.
19:20 jnthn OK, if you're more comfortable to merge that one later, that's fine by me.
19:20 jnthn I hope we can later merge or find a way to share large parts of the PAST2DNST.pm too
19:20 jnthn e.g. maybe a common role or base class
19:21 jnthn But I can't guess what'd go in the role/base yet. :-)
19:22 mberends I expect the answers will only become clear after the Java port is complete and working
19:22 jnthn *nod*
19:22 jnthn Yes, it's too early to know yet.
19:23 mberends the ClassLoader system can also turn a raw array of bytes into a class, if the bytes conform to JVM standards.
19:24 jnthn *nod*
19:24 jnthn Yes, that'll be useful for the setting loading.
19:27 mberends jnthn: which files in 6model/dotnet are likely to change in the next week or two?
19:28 jnthn Actions.pm and PAST2DNST.pm
19:28 jnthn In compiler
19:29 jnthn In runtime, harder to say.
19:29 mberends ok, thanks
19:29 jnthn The multi-dispatch stuff is certainly going to get a good whacking at some point.
19:29 jnthn It kinda depends what I choose to do first.
19:30 jnthn I think the attributes stuff will mostly affect the compiler at this point.
19:30 jnthn But there's plnety more to prorotype
19:30 jnthn I may change some stuff in Ops.pm
19:30 jnthn er, Ops.cs
19:30 jnthn To work on pre-unboxed values rather than boxed ones.
19:31 jnthn And maybe finish up lexical lookup improvements.
19:31 jnthn There's so many bits to do. :-)
19:31 jnthn At some point P6opaque.cs is going to get a bit of a beating
19:31 jnthn But I may well try out the native typed attributes in the Parrot impl first.
19:32 jnthn Mostly because I have raw memory access and so can do disgust^Wbeautiful things.
19:33 mberends jnthn: some days, you should stick to C
19:33 jnthn Well, I guess it has to make *something* easier. :-)
19:36 mberends does MultiDispatcher.candidateSort() actually sort? Is List a sorted list?
19:36 jnthn Not really
19:36 jnthn It's a big pile of cheat at the moment
19:37 mberends lol
19:37 jnthn I wouldn't spend time to translate that to Java at the moment.
19:37 mberends it's already done :/
19:37 jnthn I've still got a bunch of stuff in my notebook that hasn't made it from diagrams to code yet.
19:37 jnthn OK
19:37 jnthn Oh, is_narrower is correct still I guess
19:37 jnthn So it's not all wasted effort
19:37 jnthn Actually looking at it, it's more incomplete than wrong
19:38 mberends no worries
19:38 jnthn The problem isn't the sorting, it's more the whole way we obtain/store the candidates to sort.
19:38 jnthn I'm kinda still exploring the design/implementation space there.
19:38 jnthn Not 100% sure how it should look.
19:39 moritz_ clean and lean, please
19:39 masak preferably perfect on the first try.
19:39 jnthn moritz_: Well, yes, they're requirements. But a washed beefsteak is clean and lean, so they're clearly not the only ones for a good multi-dispatcher. :P
19:41 * masak .oO( I like my multi dispatchers like I like my beefsteaks... )
19:52 masak I take it the meeting's over...?
19:53 jnthn I'm guessing so, unless pmichaud has anything to add.
19:53 mberends yeah, 11 minutes with no comment is idle enough
19:53 moritz_ like, a report?
19:53 pmichaud I didn't do a whole lot today.
19:53 pmichaud er, this week.
19:53 pmichaud let me check the logs.
19:53 masak :)
19:54 pmichaud fixed Any.reverse flattening
19:54 pmichaud restored the -c option
19:54 pmichaud fixed encoding of the standard filehandles
19:54 pmichaud fixed the metaop forms of ?&, ?|, &&, etc.
19:55 pmichaud fixed time/now to be properly 0-ary terms
19:55 pmichaud fixed a nqp bug with negated zero-width character matches at the end of a string
19:55 pmichaud eor
19:55 masak \o/
19:55 masak pmichaud++
19:55 masak "didn't do a whole lot"... :P
19:55 moritz_ pmichaud++
19:56 jnthn "not much" :P
19:56 jnthn pmichaud++
19:56 pmichaud mostly I seem to be in recharge mode right now, as opposed to writing lots of code
19:56 jnthn pmichaud: It's still a fix/improvement per day of the week. :-)
19:56 pmichaud I've also been looking at parrot and rakudo performance improvements
19:56 * jnthn is happy about today's one :-)
19:56 jnthn We'll have to see how it impacts Rakudo.
19:56 pmichaud for example, we made a change today (not in time for parrot release) that should speed up subroutine calls a fair bit.
19:56 moritz_ pmichaud: recharge mode is very understandable after the huge R* marathon earlier this yer
19:57 moritz_ it's a bit similar here
19:57 jnthn +1. Important to get some rest.
19:57 pmichaud right
19:57 jnthn 'tis why it took me until Saturday to really dig into the Parrot porting of 6model
19:57 jnthn Though actually once I got going, it was a *lot* less painful than I expected.
19:57 jnthn Probably 'cus I, er, ignored most of Parrot... :-)
19:57 pmichaud \o/  (less painful)++
19:57 moritz_ :-)
19:57 pmichaud were the nqp parts painful, ooc?
19:58 jnthn Well, all I've done in nqp is twiddle with the makefile and moving a few things into nqp-rx that I'd already got in JnthnNQP. :-)
19:58 pmichaud ah.
19:58 jnthn So not hit the Hard Bits yet in that sense.
19:59 pmichaud I'm still thinking about how/when I might want to switch PAST::Compiler to nqp source
19:59 jnthn Only pain point so far is loadlib.
19:59 jnthn Yeah
19:59 pmichaud maybe it'll become NAST :-)
19:59 pmichaud then we just need a 'Y'
19:59 jnthn Ooh, NAST
20:00 jnthn It'll take me months to stop typing PAST...
20:00 jnthn After 2+ years or doing so week in week out... :-)
20:00 pmichaud :)
20:00 pmichaud it's likely to remain PAST, somehow.
20:00 jnthn Perl6-ish Abstract Syntax Tree
20:00 pmichaud anyway, that's all I have for this week.
20:01 moritz_ Portable Abstract Syntax Tree
20:01 pmichaud for this upcoming week I'll be helping with compiler/star releases and researching cpan-ish things.
20:01 jnthn +1
20:01 jnthn pmichaud: And if you manage it, the loadlib unblocker. :-)
20:01 jnthn Or just tell me what to call it. :-)
20:02 jnthn I guess that's $meeting.end
20:02 jnthn Thanks, all
20:02 jnthn .oO( To the stejkhus! )
20:03 masak :D
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