Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #phasers, 2011-01-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
03:42 _ilbot joined #phasers
03:42 Topic for #phasers is now weekly Rakudo status meetings with phase transitions: Tue 19:00 UTC | IR clogs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/phasers/today
17:59 tadzik joined #phasers
18:22 takadonet joined #phasers
18:22 takadonet hey all
18:22 tadzik hey
18:23 tadzik btw, is "IR clogs at" some inside-joke? :)
18:23 moritz_ yes
18:23 moritz_ it's "irc logs", but sinde the subdomain is irclog.perlg...
18:23 moritz_ some people read that as "IR clogs"
18:37 sorear report: been hacking on self-hosted niecza.  It is starting to work but still far from releasable.  EOR
18:39 moritz_ report: I have implemented non-spec Devel::Trace in Rakudo. Been hacking on masak's challenges a bit more; made t/harness barf when spectest_smolder is run without TAP::Harness::Archive present. EOR (I think) :-)
18:45 diakopter joined #phasers
18:46 tadzik report: thought about and worked on the META.list idea from S22. Created an ecosystem fork and poked module authors to move their modules to the new infrastructure. Refactored neutro, spread some interest in Perl 6 between Dancer devs. EOR I think
18:46 diakopter tadzik++
18:46 tadzik oh, and my CLA is on the go to USA
18:46 diakopter also you did some perl6.org patches
18:47 moritz_ right, a new page for STD.pm6 + viv
18:47 tadzik oh well, that was #perl6 requests
18:47 diakopter (I meant a couple patches tadzik did, but moritz_++ too)
18:48 diakopter oh wait, yeah, superseded by moritz_'s changes; forgot
18:51 * sorear is currently trying to fix heredoc parsing
18:52 shortcircuit joined #phasers
18:57 Util Pre-report: No work done this week. Today, will commit (first draft) script to build Rakudo Star OS X .dmg binary.
18:57 Util EOR
19:00 colomon o/
19:00 diakopter ooo
19:00 Util Hello
19:00 jnthn o/
19:00 moritz_ \o
19:01 diakopter sorear: so... #phasers is *officially* beginning now ;)
19:01 diakopter o/
19:01 jnthn lol :)
19:01 diakopter Util reported, tadzik reported
19:02 * jnthn has a report ready Really Soon...
19:02 tadzik moritz_ and sorear to
19:02 moritz_ let's roll the drums for jnthn
19:02 tadzik drmdrmdrmdrmdrm
19:02 moritz_ *thud*
19:02 moritz_ *thud*
19:02 moritz_ *thud*
19:02 moritz_ :-)
19:02 jnthn In the last week I...
19:02 jnthn * Had a throat infection :-/
19:02 jnthn * Had another crack at the nominal type cache idea for Rakudo. Shaves 30% off tools/benchmark.pl.
19:02 jnthn * Played with making scalar and rw flags cheaper in the common case. Work's in a branch. Fails various tests; can probably fix.
19:02 jnthn * Ported some of the latest 6model/nqpclr bits to nqp-rx/nom
19:02 jnthn * Eliminated nqp-rx/nom use of PCT::HLLCompiler by moving stuff into nqp-rx repo. Translated some bits to NQP. Much of the rest is LHF.
19:02 jnthn * Added class_6m to nqp-rx/nom to start transition to the new meta-model
19:03 jnthn * So far, all Actions classes and Compiler classes are moved over! \o/
19:03 jnthn In the next week I'll...
19:03 jnthn * Get the nqp-rx/nom equivalent of Mu in place
19:03 jnthn * Eliminate class_6m by switching classes to always use 6model
19:03 jnthn * Start to port 6model/nqpclr's multi-dispatch to nqp-rx/nom
19:03 jnthn * Write an architecture overview doc for 6model
19:03 jnthn * Hack with mberends++ on 6model/java
19:03 jnthn Blockers
19:03 jnthn * None yet, but soon will need to try and co-ordinate with Pm and then Parrot folks on a nqp-rx => nqp-rx/nom migration plan
19:03 jnthn EOR
19:03 diakopter yay for 'Write an architecture overview doc for 6model'
19:03 colomon \o/
19:03 moritz_ \o/
19:06 diakopter report: added a few more bits to perlesque; I want to add hash literals, and then finally return to viv_psq after.. what's it been... 4-5 months?  EOR
19:07 moritz_ so
19:07 moritz_ do we need to discuss anything?
19:07 diakopter (and by "return to", I mean, go back to trying to figure it out enough to take sorear's work and extend it) EOR4REALZ
19:08 tadzik I have a few questions about releasing Rakudo, as I'm to be a release manager. What is the usual/expected time for a commit freeze?
19:09 tadzik more like an hour before the release, or rather a day?
19:09 moritz_ more like an hour
19:09 masak joined #phasers
19:10 * masak is late
19:11 PerlJam tadzik: There's a commit freeze?  (does that help answer your question?  :-)
19:11 PerlJam tadzik: seriously, I tend to agree with moritz_
19:11 moritz_ PerlJam: typically only announced in #perl6
19:11 jnthn tadzik: The commit rate isn't *that* high and committers are often about on the channel.
19:11 jnthn What moritz_ said :)
19:11 tadzik PerlJam: well, I think I recall something like this in before
19:12 masak sorear: what'll be the big benefit from the self-hosting? &eval? also, what are the chances the self-hosting part will be the default in the next release?
19:13 moritz_ yes, people just says "I'm cutting the release now, please hold your commits for a while"
19:13 PerlJam Even still.  Once you pick a revision for release, it doesn't matter much if anyone commits.
19:14 Util Now that we are using Git, the release manager *could* just not pull/fetch during the release process.
19:14 Util (oh, like PerlJam was saying)
19:14 PerlJam Util: yep
19:16 sorear masak: &eval is part of it yes, although that won't be in the next release
19:17 masak sorear: ok.
19:17 diakopter moritz_: where's your 2010 summary url?
19:17 sorear masak: more immediately, it seems to be significantly faster, and eliminates the requirement to install Perl 5 extension modules
19:18 moritz_ diakopter: http://perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/perl-6-in-2010.html
19:18 masak \o/
19:18 diakopter thanks
19:19 sorear diakopter: could you look at http://feather.perl6.nl/~sorear/niecza-v6-pre-20110111.zip on the Microsoft CLR?
19:19 sorear I doubt it will work; it's from the same codegen you had issues with last week
19:25 diakopter (yes I'm trying when I get a minute) :)
19:25 diakopter sorry to block #phasers if I was
19:26 masak small report: haven't done much since Christmas, but slowly getting in enough order to be able to hack on simple things again. the Contest will end this Friday -- looking forward to summarize that. eor
19:28 moritz_ Friday already...
19:29 masak $time.fly( :like(Arrow.new) );
19:29 PerlJam :-(  I haven't even started on the contest problems
19:31 masak PerlJam: er. did you sign up?
19:31 masak PerlJam: I don't see you among the contestants.
19:32 PerlJam I may have forgotten to sign up.
19:32 PerlJam In any case, it doesn't much matter to me to be part of the contest as much as to solve interesting problems and see how other solved them and so forth
19:32 masak there's still approximately four days left to do that :)
19:35 PerlJam unfortunately I only really have time in the evenings after I put the kids to bed to work on fun coding projects and lately I've been falling asleep myself
19:36 PerlJam Makes me feel like I'm getting old  :)
19:40 masak aww :)
19:41 moritz_ any more phases we need to cross?
19:42 tadzik masak: can I ask you to move your modules to the META.info format? I'd like to merge the neutro/metainfo branch and continue investigating the module case
19:42 * jnthn doesn't have any questions/discussion items, beyond "scream at me if the nomtype cache busted your code"
19:42 tadzik and yours are quite often used and important
19:42 jnthn But nobody seems to have, so I'm optimistic. :)
19:42 masak tadzik: sure, just let me know what changes I should make.
19:42 takadonet jnthn: i noticed the speed up
19:43 tadzik masak: you need to add a META.info file in the root directory of a repo
19:43 tadzik looks like this: https://github.com/tadzik/neutro/blob/metainfo/META.info
19:43 jnthn takadonet: Really?
19:43 jnthn takadonet: That's nice to hear. :)
19:43 jnthn I was wondering if it was any real-world help :)
19:43 takadonet takadonet: for the module that have lots of fcn calls
19:44 tadzik oh, one more thing
19:44 jnthn takadonet: Nice :)
19:44 jnthn Now if only we could get iteration not to be dog slow... :)
19:44 takadonet jnthn: and startup
19:45 jnthn takadonet: Yes.
19:45 jnthn That'd help too.
19:45 * jnthn will keep hacking away :)
19:45 tadzik I see Kodi++ closing many tickets, but there are still dozens of those opened, but fixed, I remember finding like a dozen of them once, but there was no one to close them. What is the best thing to do to move it forward?
19:46 tadzik bah, I never thought of replying to a tickit until now :)
19:46 moritz_ tadzik: get write access to the RT queue
19:46 moritz_ and do it :-)
19:46 tadzik moritz_: I asked pmichaud for it like 2 months ago ;)
19:46 masak ask pmichaud again.
19:46 moritz_ tadzik: ask again when he's actually online
19:47 tadzik ok :)
19:47 shortcircuit I don't know whether it's my place to talk, but I've taken a toy interest in looking at the PIR/NQP layer of Rakudo, and seeing where I might be able to replace Parrot with, e.g. C++.
19:47 shortcircuit To that end, it would be helpful to have a relativaly defined boundary between NQP and Perl 6.
19:48 tadzik or we can call a "ticket closing week, yay!", encourage people to look through the RT and prepare a nice prize for the winners, like The Smile Of Jonathan or something :)
19:48 jnthn ...my smile is enough to motivate people to do stuff? :)
19:48 tadzik oh, that's symbolic ;)
19:49 tadzik I can donate a cookie for a prize
19:49 tadzik it may even be a cookie from rakudo.org :)
19:49 * [Coke] can grant bugadmin access.
19:49 PerlJam shortcircuit: I think there was talk of moving all of the PIR stuff behind the NQP:: namespace so that all you have to do is re-wire the NQP::* routines
19:49 masak ooh, the Smile of Jonathan! \o/
19:50 jnthn The aim is certainly to have less PIR, more NQP
19:50 jnthn Especially because you *really* don't want to write PIR when dealing with the new meta-model stuff. :)
19:50 shortcircuit I'd point out that it's presumably helpful to have a fluidic boundary between VM and PIR, to allow for optimizations at the expense of maintainer effort.
19:51 shortcircuit I'm going for minimum-effort, but others might not.
19:51 shortcircuit er.
19:51 shortcircuit fluidic boundary between VM and NQP.
19:51 jnthn shortcircuit: Certainly I want a cleaner interfce there.
19:51 PerlJam shortcircuit: are you volunteering to work on it ?  :)
19:51 jnthn shortcircuit: It's important to me too, as I want Rakudo on other VMs. It's kinda just not quite there yet.
19:52 jnthn Help on it is most welcome and certainly going in the right direction.
19:53 sorear One thing I'd like to discuss is whether ($x) and ($x,) should be the same
19:54 shortcircuit PerlJam: Don't tell anyone, but I already am. ;) At least in the sense that I'm looking at it and figuring out the parts that would make it easier for me to do, which may or may not ultimately have any results.
19:54 PerlJam sorear: Yes, they should be the same.
19:55 Util sorear: why would they differ?
19:56 shortcircuit Even if I did get it working, I wouldn't maintain it. At best, the effort would provide experience toward future, more persistent efforts.
20:02 sorear PerlJam: good to get a second opinion on that.
20:03 sorear now I just need to figure out how ($x) ,= 1 works
20:03 sorear (nevermind the fact that it's practically useless)
20:03 * jnthn agrees with PerlJam fwiw :)
20:04 sorear basically I'm plotting to make 1-element parcels not exist in niecza
20:04 sorear so sub return(\|$things) is return-pass-special { } can work
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