Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #phasers, 2011-03-15

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
05:41 sorear PRE REPORT
05:41 sorear DID
05:41 sorear * got a yapsi commit bit
05:42 sorear * starting to lay groundwork for multi dispatch in niecza
05:42 sorear - figured out how to unify multi token with multi method
05:42 sorear - also thought about "my multi token"
05:43 sorear - multi tokens will do real MMD, then the system will be extended to type-based MMD
05:43 sorear * gave a commit bit to mberends++, who added term:<now>
05:43 sorear * implemented term:<xxx> overloading
05:44 sorear * solved the "build requires too new .net" problem
05:44 sorear * implemented parameter type constraints
05:44 sorear WILL DO
05:44 sorear * finish MMD-y stuff
05:45 sorear * try again to get .WHO-based qualification working (jnthn++)
05:45 sorear * after nominal MMD works, branch yapsi and fill it with niecza workarounds
05:45 sorear * then slowly fix stuff
05:46 sorear BLOCKERS
05:46 sorear * $external only
05:46 sorear EOR
07:32 cognominal left #phasers
07:37 cognominal joined #phasers
14:47 TimToady left #phasers
14:48 TimToady joined #phasers
16:14 colomon joined #phasers
16:43 benabik joined #phasers
17:59 diakopter ./
18:00 jnthn o/
18:00 moritz_ \o
18:00 jnthn Is it time already? :)
18:00 moritz_ no, in 1h
18:00 jnthn oh!
18:00 jnthn Was gonna say...
18:00 diakopter oh, US summer time
18:00 jnthn :P
18:00 jnthn wtf, you already have summer?! In March?
18:00 jnthn :P
18:01 moritz_ today *really* felt like spring
18:02 colomon left #phasers
18:02 * moritz_ could pre-report
18:02 moritz_ * reviewed some rakudo pull requests
18:02 moritz_ * translated a bit of PIR in nqp to Perl 6 code
18:02 moritz_ * started to get rid of P6Regex.pir, and then let jnthn++ do all the hard work
18:03 moritz_ that's about it
18:10 pmichaud_ good afternoon, #phasers
18:10 diakopter ur 50 min early
18:10 pmichaud_ I probably won't be here in 50 min
18:10 * diakopter neither
18:12 jnthn o/ pmichaud_
18:14 moritz_ pmichaud_: jdhore (same github nick) will be our release manager this month. Could you please add him as a rakudo committer?
18:16 jnthn Pre-report (partly so pmichaud_++ gets to see it... :-))
18:16 jnthn Missed last week's #phasers because I was on the flight back from an excellent hackathon (mberends++ for organizing and hosting it), so here's two weeks worth of report. :-)
18:16 jnthn * Finished up the lexical setting work, tossed the confusingly named non-lexical setting we had before
18:16 jnthn * Got some initial static lexpad infrastructure in place, though not really using it just yet
18:16 jnthn * Moved NQP into a HLL of its own and called it just NQP, not NQP-rx. This will not break things if people then want to have both loaded, and it was needed for using HLL mapping on lexpad/lexinfo
18:17 jnthn * Started working on the work that will let us create meta-objects at compile time and then either use them at runtime right off or "deserialize" them; we'll eventually be able to migrate to a more real serialization format, but for now this will do OK
18:17 jnthn * Broke meta-objects into their own PBC
18:17 jnthn * Made it so that compiled NQP output loads the things it needs, to compilation of programs to PIR results in something usable
18:17 jnthn * Moved NQPMu and native types into the setting, though they ain't lexical yet (will be soon, just didn't get to that yet)
18:17 jnthn * Some work towards lexically scoped types
18:17 jnthn * Started to prepare for .WHO, stashes and the like
18:17 jnthn * Implemented very basic use statement in NQP; will flesh out with time
18:17 jnthn * Implemented basic support for MAIN
18:17 jnthn * It's now possible to write compilers entirely in NQP, no PIR needed
18:17 jnthn * Did that with the NQP compiler, pretty much
18:17 jnthn * Eliminated built-ins cheats by re-writing them into NQP and putting them in the setting
18:17 jnthn * Worked with moritz++ to also get P6Regex PBC's compilation managed entirely by NQP, eliminating P6Regex.pir
18:17 jnthn * Planned a bit on GLOBAL merging, after discussions with TimToady++ and others
18:17 jnthn PLAN
18:17 jnthn * Write my talk for OSDC.TW
18:17 jnthn * Get HLL.pbc fully NQP-compiled (no HLL.pir)
18:17 jnthn * Work towards sane package handling, including lexical packaging and nested packages
18:17 jnthn * Note that much of what I'm figuring out in NQP will be directly applicable to Rakudo, and should make us far more spec compliant there too
18:17 jnthn BLOCKERS
18:17 jnthn * Teaching Thu and Fri, which is always tiring. Then flying to Taiwan, where I'll be jetlagged and have lots of interesting things to go see. :-) I'll try and commit bits now and then. :-)
18:17 jnthn EOR
18:18 colomon joined #phasers
18:20 pmichaud_ my report:  nothing perl6-ish to report.  :(
18:22 pmichaud_ moritz_++  # jdhore++ added as committer to rakudo repo
18:45 pmichaud_ ...was it something I wrote?
18:45 pmichaud_ :-)
18:45 pmichaud_ afk
18:45 pmichaud_ is now known as pmichaud
18:46 mberends joined #phasers
18:50 [particle] left #phasers
18:53 [particle] joined #phasers
18:53 mberends left #phasers
19:10 colomon \o
19:10 moritz_ it's #phasers time
19:10 moritz_ anybody got a report?
19:10 colomon pmichaud: you were 40 minutes early.  :)
19:10 tadzik I has
19:11 colomon I've got a short one.
19:11 moritz_ tadzik goes first, I'd say
19:11 tadzik not much, but something because I missed last week's one
19:12 tadzik so, neutro is now considered dead & buried, I worked out a modular, testable solution which came out to be similar to masak's Pls. It's called Pies, and has quite a complete implementation called panda, which is to be blag about soon, with the complete deprecation of neutro
19:13 tadzik also, there is an implementation of Pies being a client side of mberends++ Popolnik, so testing and benchmarking modules
19:13 * tadzik peeks at git log
19:14 tadzik fixed some weird Test.pm behaviour
19:14 tadzik Rakudo now does not load the .pir files if it's older than .pm file (when loading modules)
19:14 colomon tadzik++
19:15 tadzik fixed a number of things about the new IO capabilities
19:15 tadzik I think that's it, unless I forgot something
19:15 tadzik probably fixed a few bugs, but don't remember now
19:15 moritz_ tadzik++
19:16 colomon is panda usable now?
19:16 tadzik yes
19:16 colomon url?
19:16 tadzik oh, and it has a special, R*-friendly version
19:16 tadzik github/tadzik/Pies
19:16 colomon tadzik++
19:17 * Util arrives; thrown by time change.
19:17 tadzik ++colomon # I sense testing
19:17 Util I attended the VM Summit at PyCon. Blog post pending.
19:17 Util Also, I poked at making `use lib` work in Rakudo; thwarted so far by lack of import list handling.
19:17 Util EOR
19:17 masak joined #phasers
19:17 mberends joined #phasers
19:18 moritz_ colomon: you next?
19:18 colomon sure
19:18 tadzik Util++
19:19 tadzik BREAKING NEWS: There is no Karma Bot at the channel, we can as well say "thank you" :)
19:19 tadzik s, cnr
19:19 colomon I did a bunch of benchmarking for masak's p5, with a few blog posts.  And got a few more things working in the ABC module.   .EOR
19:20 diakopter colomon: see the log before you joined
19:20 diakopter lots of other
19:20 masak since last I attended phasers, I've been implementing -n and -p in Rakudo. I've also posted about the p5 task, and plan to post about it again tonight. .EOR
19:20 * jnthn pre-ported
19:22 colomon oh, hey, anyone here have a framework to use bit bisect with Rakudo?
19:23 colomon I'd like to go hunting for some of the slowdowns in the last six months.  (From the rakudo benchmarks.)
19:23 colomon *git bisest
19:23 colomon *git bisect
19:23 moritz_ colomon: what do you need besides 'rm -rf parrot_install; perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot && make ' ?
19:24 colomon hmm... guess that's a simple one-liner, eh?
19:25 mberends I'll leak a pre-publish outline of my design for Popolnik shortly, for everyone's perusal. I've gotten started with contributing to niecza, wrote a C translation of my p5 solution that is 2 million times faster than Rakudo, and am studying the Top Down Operator Precedence parser in Chapter 9 of "Beautiful Code" with a view to applying it to Perl 6.
19:25 Util If you want to examine changes in parrot *between* the changes in PARROT_REVISION, you need something more complex.
19:26 jnthn BTW, if anyone on non-Win32 can confirm that ctmo builds and passes all but one test for them, it can become master. It's got nice improvements...like pbeing able to write a compiler without needing PIR. :)
19:26 colomon Util: no need to do that unless / until I determine it's actually a parrot issue.
19:26 jnthn er, nqp/ctmo (branch)
19:26 tadzik jnthn: on it
19:26 jnthn Thanks :)
19:27 tadzik no, same error as before
19:28 jnthn tadzik: ?
19:28 tadzik pasing
19:28 * jnthn hopes it's just a make program being silly again
19:28 tadzik http://nopaste.snit.ch/37775
19:28 masak mberends: does your 2-million-times-faster version apply to ASCII-only, or to (say) UTF-8?
19:29 jnthn tadzik: OK, I don't understand that failure at all.
19:29 mberends ascii, because it was little more than a proof of concept. I'm not bothered to extend it to UTF-8.
19:29 masak understandable.
19:29 tadzik This is Parrot version 3.1.0-devel built for amd64-linux.
19:29 jnthn Oh, not the PARROT_REVISION version?
19:30 masak mberends: in the best case, one could still have that speed for UTF-8, but eliminate false positives in a post-processing stage.
19:30 jnthn That may explain it.
19:30 mberends save as popolnik.xhtml if you want to see the inline SVG: http://pastebin.com/hmjcndwB
19:32 mberends masak: yeah, but... ...
19:33 masak mberends: I'm not even sure, given how UTF-8 is laid out, that there will *be* any false positives. might be it'll just work straight off.
19:33 masak mberends: oh wait. no. you'll have to correct for character boundaries.
19:34 mberends masak: no, if you ignore UTF then a shorter substring could akshually masquerade as a longer one, and falsely displace the best find.
19:35 masak anyway, nice piece of engineering. :)
19:36 mberends :)  Popolnik is gradually coming together in prototype form, and should be operational in a few weeks
19:37 masak \o/
19:38 Util I have had no feedback on last week's "Rakudo Star for Darwin binary preview"; comments and criticisms still welcome :)
19:38 Util http://s3.datasaw.com/Rakudo_Star_2011-01_experiment_3.dmg
19:39 masak '_experiment_3'?
19:40 Util The first two were based on earlier R*, in past months.
19:41 Util Same problem as package numbering in Linux distros; you have to distinguish between the version of the software you are packaging, and the version of the packaging itself.
19:44 masak makes sense.
19:45 Util Also, _experiment_ until the Rakudo pumpking approves it for upload to the repo Downloads area.
19:54 PerlJam Util:  ask forgiveness rather than permission if you've got access to the downloads area yourself
19:55 * jnthn has no problem with it
19:55 jnthn Anything that makes it easier for people to install/use Rakudo is nice :)
19:56 PerlJam indeed
19:56 Util PerlJam, jnthn: noted, and may-do; thanks!
19:57 * PerlJam tries experiment 3 on his macbook
19:57 PerlJam (well, work's macbook)
20:04 mberends experiment_3 reminds me of Lilo and Stitch ;)
20:16 PerlJam mberends: hopefully Util won't go all the way to experiement_626
20:27 mberends PerlJam: yeah :)
20:50 moritz_ jnthn: nqp ctmo branch tested fine (minus 02-modules.t) last I tried
20:51 jnthn moritz_: I guess you tested with the PARROT_REVISION rather than latest
20:51 jnthn moritz_: Will investigate more soon :)
20:51 moritz_ jnthn: yep, latest leads to build failure
20:55 jnthn aha, then it's probably an easy fix
20:56 tadzik jnthn: I've pasted that
21:25 masak left #phasers

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