Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #pr-challenge, 2015-01-06

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Time Nick Message
00:28 ether eam: are you still looking for ideas for Dist-Zilla-Plugin-Clean? I noticed that the dist has no tests!
00:29 thrig oh, pish
00:29 ether you could also add the distzilla irc channel and mailing list to metadata
00:30 ether neilb: general advice for everyone trying to find something to do for their assigned dist -- don't forget to look if there is an irc channel, mailing list or other type of community, and ask for advice there
00:30 ether (for mention in your next blog post) :)
00:30 neilb ether: good point, ta
00:33 ether and adding irc/mailing list to metadata is a really easy change on its own
00:33 thrig ... or how to actually build the module
00:34 ether yeah, if the dist is weird, it really needs some instructions
00:35 thrig or even if it's bog standard, not everyone knows to run perl Makefile.PL or `dzil build` or ...
00:36 ether in case it helps, this is the template for the file I insert into my Dist::Zilla-based dists -- https://github.com/karenetheridge/Dist-Zilla-PluginBundle-Author-ETHER/blob/master/share/CONTRIBUTING
00:36 thrig yeah, the one I got didn't have that, nor a Makefile.PL
00:39 neilb night
00:44 ether o/
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01:11 eam ether: yeah uhm, it's also essentially a single line of code
01:14 eam I'll go through the motions as an exercise
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01:44 manchicken sup
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02:03 rjbs manchicken makes me think of chicken boo. therefore, I approve of your nick.
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02:24 manchicken Is it bad form to suggest that your assigned module gets deprecated?
02:25 manchicken I'm not necessarily saying that's the case... but I'm just wondering if it is.
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02:28 moritz manchicken: not more or less than suggesting to deprecate another author's module in another context
02:28 haarg although depending on the reason, there may be other options you could propose
02:29 haarg like if there are other modules that serve a similar purpose, adding them to each others see also would be a good option
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02:40 manchicken Fair enough.
02:40 manchicken I can't think of what to do with my module right now, so I'm going to harden it with perlcritic.
02:40 manchicken There are some "## no critic"s in there, I'm going to see if I can get rid of them.
02:45 manchicken This module that I'm working on has a build dependency in its repository, in an "inc" subdirectory.
02:46 manchicken I'm thinking of removing that and using the CPAN version instead.
02:50 oalders manchicken: my assigned module appears to have been uninstallable for several years. i suggested deprecating it.
02:51 manchicken oalders: I think moritz's point is a fine one, and it's one that I intend on keeping in mind.
02:52 manchicken We haven't been appointed judge, jury, and executioner, we've taken on a challenge.
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02:52 manchicken I'm up to fixing it, even if it's not what I would have done.
02:58 oalders sure. just depends on the situation. i don't see this as a "make work" project.
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03:13 manchicken I don't either. I don't think that this is an exercise in cutting the fat, either.
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03:59 oalders Reminds me that neilb had some nice thoughts on CPAN curation and retiring modules a while back http://www.slideshare.net/neilbowers/cpan-curation/20
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06:41 heytitle Hi!
06:42 dfluck Time-zone appropriate greetings! (Totally stole that from last night.)
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07:22 Su-Shee good morning everyone
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07:38 dfluck Hi!
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08:22 BHS_error hello
08:32 BooK gah licensing!
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08:58 ptc morning *
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09:01 sawyer morning :)
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09:04 pink_mist good morning
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09:29 mvuets hi! has anyone heard anything on blogs.perl.org sign up issue?
09:29 mvuets i haven't received any reply from gents in charge so far
09:30 neilb sorry, I meant to update you on that.
09:30 Su-Shee I really suggest to use one of the advent calendar blogs we have actually in reach...
09:30 Su-Shee because I can't even login anymore.
09:30 neilb bit of a long story, but I’ve been talking to various people to try and sort out the blogging situation
09:31 Relequestual does everyone get asked to make a pull request on the same repo or is everyone assigned different projects?
09:32 neilb short version: BPO was locked down because they were tired of dealing with the spam, and it needs some effort to make it more secure. Trubzi.com was a possibility, but they don’t really want to get into the community blogging game. I’ve suggested that maybe we could do a bulk upload of new users on BPO, so that people can start blogging.
09:32 Su-Shee Relequestual: different, everybody has his/her own
09:32 sawyer Relequestual: different repos
09:32 neilb Relequestual: no, you all get different dists, within each month anyway
09:32 Relequestual ah cool =]
09:32 Relequestual well I've landed a pretty awesome one to start with!
09:32 neilb which is?
09:32 Relequestual App::Perlbrew
09:32 Su-Shee neilb: or we just ignore bpo and use one of the advent calendar blogs which work nicely :)
09:33 Relequestual I use perlbrew daily, being a perl dev on osx
09:33 neilb everyone is obviously welcome to blog wherever they like, just trying to help out the people who want “a perl blog”.
09:33 Su-Shee and live with the embarressment that they're all wordpress. ;)
09:33 neilb I tried to persuade Sawyer and Yanick to whip up a community blogging site in a week, but they’re wimps
09:34 Su-Shee neilb: yeah.. but it's kind of tiresome that one can't even login anymore with an existing account :(
09:34 sawyer hahaha
09:34 Su-Shee neilb: I wouldn't touch MT either, to be honest.
09:35 sawyer Su-Shee: when i go to login it says "denied" and then when i try the credentials, it logs me in
09:35 mvuets neilb: i see, thanks for the update!
09:35 Su-Shee sawyer: then it likes you better than it likes me because I can't login at all, with or without credentials ;)
09:36 neilb I mean, how hard can it be?! ;-)
09:36 mvuets Su-Shee: what particular advent calendar you have in mind?
09:36 Su-Shee and this "wants you to login with your username not your email" is awesome because comparing and displaying that message is almost more work than actually just accepting the email address. and even more awesome: I did put in my username :)
09:37 Su-Shee mvuets: I don't care, there's at least .. 4 I remember.
09:37 Su-Shee sawyer: I'm oscillating between invalid and denied ;)
09:39 mvuets i thought i'd create a tumblr blog... but on the second thought their post editor does not seem to have a "code" formatting q-:
09:39 sawyer Su-Shee: i know you - you're both!
09:40 Su-Shee sawyer: I AM NOT AN INVALID AND NOBODY DENIES ME ;)
09:40 Su-Shee sawyer: awesome. I have to tweet this pun immediately :)
09:43 Su-Shee also, I need another 5 minutes of laughing madly about the javascript insanity. :)
09:43 sawyer hehe
09:46 Su-Shee I found a website where you can send your angular/backbone/etc javascript to so it renders it to HTML and sends it back so it can be SEOed. it's awesome.
09:49 sawyer heh
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11:50 mstr just installed that github mac client.
11:50 mstr am i the only one who doesn't get what the point is?
11:51 mstr how does it help me? or make anything easier?
11:51 Relequestual mstr I would suggest not using the github mac client
11:51 Relequestual it's not very... helpful
11:51 Relequestual try sourcetree
11:52 mstr i was hoping to see some kind of branch tree or anything really
11:52 Relequestual I find it very helpful for looking at the tree history
11:52 Relequestual yeah, try sourcetree =]
11:52 Relequestual you get really nice commit graphs
11:52 Relequestual branch graphs
11:52 Relequestual very useful =]
11:55 mstr seems to me that if you need help in the form of that github client than you might want to step away from git alltogether
11:55 mstr i mean the github mac client, sourcetree i don't know yet
11:56 Relequestual mmm github client for mac... I'm not sure I really understood it's purpose
11:57 haarg if you are just committing your current changes and don't like command line tools, it will suffice
11:58 Relequestual I guess it could be useful on a very basic level
11:58 haarg its abilities are intentionally limited to make it easy to use
11:58 Relequestual but just having a sync button doesn't help people learn git
11:59 mstr it's just that once you know all the ways you can tell git to really screw you (because you don't understand what you are asking it to do) i get a healthy panic attack before pressing some innocent buttons which don't tell me what they are about to do.
12:01 haarg sourcetree gives you a ton more power, but that means the ui is overloaded with buttons
12:02 haarg i don't use either of them though, since i spend my time on the command line anyway
12:02 Relequestual yeah, whatever works for you =]
12:03 haarg gitk works pretty nicely as a history viewer though
12:14 mstr oh my. i do love apps which muster up enough courage to go ahead and change MY config files without asking first.
12:15 * mstr cleansing ~/.gitconfig
12:19 haarg yeah that part does piss me off
12:19 haarg sourcetree has an option for "can i modify your .gitconfig"
12:20 mstr sure. :) after you run it the very first time where you can change that setting - at which point it already stuck its sticky fingers in my cookie jar :-)
12:20 mstr lucky for them suckers i have all that stuff in a repo
12:21 haarg i wouldn't generally have a problem with sourcetree changing the config, except it converts the relative paths i have in there to absolute paths
12:21 haarg which isn't portable across systems
12:22 mstr sometimes i wish i would not be using osx; all i wanted was a quick gitk look..
12:23 haarg so... just use gitk?
12:24 neilb Su-Shee: I don’t know how many people make “a YAPC” but I suspect that when I’ve processed all of today’s signups (arrrgh!), we’ll have reached, or passed it :-o
12:24 mstr that's not part of the git commands apple graced my computer with
12:24 mstr yeah, i know. you don't have to say what i'm supposed to do now :)
12:25 haarg ah i always forget about the built in tools.  homebrew or macports solves that pretty easily.
12:31 neilb FYI: you’re either done, or you’re not. “I’m done (ish)” isn’t in my data model :-p
13:21 Su-Shee neilb: on average, a yapc::eu has 350 visitors
13:21 Su-Shee neilb: so that's what I have a visual impression what that really means :)
13:22 Su-Shee "for"
13:22 Su-Shee of.
13:24 neilb Su-Shee: ok, I’ll let you know if we hit that!
13:24 pink_mist well you're already in the same ballpark anyway :P
13:35 Su-Shee neilb: I'm already at awe about the numbers anways :)
13:35 Mithaldu neilb: ask everyone for avatars, print them all out, arrange them around a cat, take a photo
13:35 Mithaldu nobody will be able to tell the difference from a yapc photo
13:35 Su-Shee true...
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14:00 neilb Mithaldu: I’ve never been to a YAPC, so I’ll have to take your word for it.
14:02 Mithaldu neilb: ask woolfy some time :)
14:02 neilb that’s Wendy, right?
14:03 tadzik yep
14:04 Mithaldu i can't remember liz' irc nick
14:04 Mithaldu so i just point people at woolfy, get one, you get the other anyhow
14:05 alh (lizmat IIRC)
14:06 Mithaldu yep!
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15:07 Su-Shee COFFEE TIME
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15:52 mstr perlbrew (on osx) seems to dislike quite some perl versions complaining mostly about locale.t
15:52 mstr anybody having the same problems?
15:54 hunter not sure if I had that specific issue with locale, but I was unable to build 5.8.9 using Perlbrew on OS X
15:54 daveh mstr: which version? 5.18.2 WFM.
15:55 daveh what are you building?
15:55 mstr working: 5.20.1, 5.18.4, 5.16.3, 5.10.1
15:55 haarg hunter: you might try doing perlbrew install-patchperl
15:55 mstr not working: all the others
15:55 mstr already updated patchperl
15:56 haarg mstr: all?  can you be more specific?
15:56 daveh 5.8.9 gives me: sh: line 0: cd: /Users/daveh/perl5/perlbrew/build: No such file or directory
15:56 mstr $ perlbrew available
15:56 mstr perl-5.21.7
15:56 mstr i perl-5.20.1
15:56 mstr i perl-5.18.4
15:56 mstr i perl-5.16.3
15:56 mstr perl-5.14.4
15:56 mstr perl-5.12.5
15:56 mstr i perl-5.10.1
15:56 mstr perl-5.8.9
15:56 mstr perl-5.6.2
15:56 mstr perl5.005_04
15:56 mstr perl5.004_05
15:56 mstr perl5.003_07
15:56 mstr sorry :)
15:57 mstr funny thing too: 5.005_04 installed just fine, just doesn't show up as installed in "perlbrew available", "perlbrew list" shows it just fine
15:58 haarg perlbrew gets a bit goofy when dealing with pre-5.6 perl versions
15:59 haarg one of the reasons i don't use it
16:00 mstr and here is the PR fixing it: https://github.com/bingos/devel-patchperl/pull/10
16:02 mstr @haarg: and you are using?
16:03 haarg a bunch of bash scripts i wrote
16:03 haarg i generally like the idea of perlbrew, i just don't like that it's written in perl
16:04 thrig ocaml then? or ... ?
16:04 daveh It's Miyagawa-ware therefore awesome
16:05 haarg no it isn't
16:05 haarg using perl to switch between potentially broken or ancient perl versions is just not a great idea in my mind, so i wrote my own stuff using bash
16:05 mstr well then: http://weblog.bulknews.net/post/58079418600/plenv-alternative-for-perlbrew
16:05 mstr @haarg: miyagawa seems to think so too
16:06 haarg plenv is more of a deployment solution
16:07 haarg i also wanted more control over local::lib stuff and a few other things
16:08 haarg i don't mean to put down perlbrew really.  it does a fine job for most people and for most cases.
16:09 Relequestual yeah, I use perlbrew =D
16:23 pink_mist http://p.0au.de/6c5e1d6c/ I use perlbrew too :3
16:25 Relequestual wow that's a few more than me
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16:31 Su-Shee pink_mist: show-off :)
16:32 pink_mist it was a pain getting all those to build because of failing tests for some versions >_<
16:33 hunter do you really need all of them ?
16:33 thrig pink_mist: did the gmtime segfaulty get bugged? I didn't see it in a quick search of The List
16:33 pink_mist thrig: yes, I replied with a link earlier over on freenode =) ... let me go find the link again =)
16:34 pink_mist thrig: http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5.porters/2014/12/msg223974.html
16:34 pink_mist father c fixed it quickly :P
16:34 haarg i have 68 perl versions installed.  having them all easily available is definitely helpful.
16:35 thrig cool
16:35 haarg if i get a cpantesters failure, it's easier to just start with the exact perl version they were using
16:35 pink_mist hunter: 'need' is a strong word :P I do need a lot of them, but sure, not _all_
16:35 pink_mist haarg: indeed
16:36 haarg and especially when you get back to the 5.10 or 5.8, the patch releases become more important
16:37 hunter How far back do you try to support with your modules? All the way back to 5.8.X? Or do you just pick a version at the start of the module then keep future additions compatible?
16:37 thrig I aim for 5.10 at the moment (due to RHEL6)
16:37 pink_mist some I try for 5.6 even
16:37 haarg i work on a number of modules that guarantee 5.8.1 compatibility
16:38 haarg and i help out with toolchain stuff, which is also 5.8.1
16:38 haarg and some things support 5.6 as well, although that's more rare
16:38 hunter thrig: I see, I need to double check that my module is compatible with that I believe I may have used 5.14
16:38 pink_mist if you go below 5.6, you can't reliable 'use warnings;' anymore, so further than that I refuse to go :P
16:39 pink_mist *reliably
16:39 haarg 5.6 usually isn't hard to support if you aren't dealing with unicode
16:39 haarg 5.005 though, no way.  lack of warnings or our make that a no go for me.
16:40 hunter haarg: unicode was 5.8.3? or .1?
16:40 thrig 5.10 // die
16:40 haarg 5.8.1 is when unicode was usable
16:40 haarg probably 5.8.7 before it was reliable
16:40 haarg // is a nice to have, but not essential in my mind
16:41 hunter recently fixed a bug at work related to someone using || instead of //, so I am pro //; but really it depends on the possible inputs.
16:41 pink_mist I believe I heard 5.8.5 being mentioned for unicode being good some time ago, but ... it was a while, so I may be mistaken on that number
16:43 haarg every 5.8 point release has unicode fixes
16:44 haarg https://github.com/makamaka/JSON-PP/pull/9 here's an example of something that was broken until 5.8.7
16:44 haarg where asking substr for 1 character would instead give you a bunch
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19:15 lagrasta Are the module authors all aware that their module is part of the challenge? Is it safe to assume that they are on board with the concept?
19:16 thrig they will be! <sinister laughter track/>
19:16 pink_mist they don't know, no, unless they've paid attention :P
19:16 hunter Not necessarily, when I contacted the author of the module I recieved he had not heard about the challenge; he seemed receptive to the idea though and has given me lots of background information about the module
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19:17 lagrasta That’s nice. Mine hasn’t replied. I understand he may be busy, it’s certainly too soon for me to complain. I was just wondering.
19:17 thrig vacation, etc
19:18 lagrasta yeah, in the meantime I was looking at kwalitee stuff and docs. Surely no one would object to a pull request correcting some typos or gramatical errors.
19:19 Su-Shee in the end, you can always just send a pull request anyways. it just might be ignored.
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19:19 Su-Shee it's not that it breaks anything...
19:20 lagrasta True.
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20:15 haarg sent a PR to my dist.  author doesn't seem very active though, and doesn't use perl anymore.
20:15 haarg oh well
20:21 PerlJam haarg: take over the dist?  :)
20:21 haarg it's not a module i have an interest in
20:22 thrig indicate it should go to the module shelter for future adoption e.g. to that niel guy?
20:23 haarg we'll see if there's any response from the author first
20:23 Su-Shee "the module shelter" :))
20:23 thrig stray modules!
20:29 Su-Shee it's very bad after christmas and before summer vacation.. all those modules just put out at some corner of the internet.. very sad
20:30 jrhunt some people only like code when it's little and cute
20:30 haarg the module i got is actually going to be broken by other things in a month or so, and the author has been notified but hasn't responded.
20:31 Su-Shee haarg: which one did you have?
20:31 haarg Test::Spec
20:31 haarg upcoming changes to Test::More/Test::Builder are going to break it
20:32 Su-Shee hmmm it's used in perlbrew actually..
20:51 jashank Morning.
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20:55 ablagoev guys can anyone recommend me a good advanced perl book
20:55 Su-Shee other than HOP none really and that's more specific..
20:55 pink_mist Higher Order Perl
20:56 ablagoev it'd be great if it focused on the more advanced concepts and not so much on the basics as loops, conditionals, etc.
20:56 ablagoev I see
20:56 ablagoev I'll check it out
20:56 ablagoev thanks a bunch :)
20:56 Su-Shee the recent programming perl is worth a re-read.
20:56 ribasushi ablagoev: HOP is in essence "introduction to basic and advanced functional programming" and uses perl as the teaching-language
20:57 ribasushi ablagoev: so if you know perl basics - it's a very good generic-concept book
20:58 Su-Shee I liked the old "advanced perl programming" by o'reilly
20:58 pink_mist I did too; that was actually my first perl book :P
20:59 pink_mist but by now it shows its age
21:01 ablagoev ribasush: thanks, I
21:01 ablagoev ribasushi: thanks, I'll give it a try
21:02 ablagoev is there anything which introduces the "pearl" way of doing things, such as code styles, patterns etc
21:02 ablagoev *"perl"
21:03 pink_mist HOP is nice for that too
21:03 pink_mist really, go read it :P
21:03 thrig can't have too many hops
21:03 pink_mist http://hop.perl.plover.com/#free <-- available for free right here =)
21:05 ablagoev niiice :) again, thanks a lot
21:05 Su-Shee ablagoev: read lots of code of good modules.
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21:29 Su-Shee ablagoev: please ask in the channel, in public not per privmsg. thanks.
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21:34 ether the pr challenge is a great opportunity to get uninterested authors to turn over comaint to ADOPTME
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21:58 lejeunerenard haarg: i think exodist actually submitted a PR for Test::Spec to support the new Test::More / Test::Builder.
21:58 haarg i know
22:07 lejeunerenard sorry, thought you might have missed it.
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