Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #pr-challenge, 2015-01-15

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Time Nick Message
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01:46 jrhunt dolmen, my point was that some dists are more "complete" than others, and it can be frustrating finding meaningful things to contribute to a mature dist with few bugs, good test coverage and great docs
01:55 haarg jrhunt: the dist you got did have a rather significant bug, it's just not an easy one to fix
01:56 jrhunt which bug?
01:56 haarg if you don't have any systems that can reproduce it, it's understandable to want to work on a different dist
01:56 jrhunt the utf8 test issue?
01:56 haarg yes
01:56 jrhunt yeah, i dont have the platforms to repro
01:57 jrhunt iirc, it was all *bsds and/or mac osx
01:57 haarg i wouldn't qualify that as a bad dist for the challenge
01:57 haarg it seems more likely to me that it's related to the openssl version
02:01 jrhunt fine fine.
02:01 * jrhunt goes back to the drawing board
02:02 haarg i'm not saying it's unreasonable to want a different dist, since you can't really reproduce the issue.
02:03 haarg but i don't think that means it's a bad dist for the challenge, since it does have a bug that would effect a significant number of users.
02:03 haarg and someone else might have a mac where it seems easy to reproduce.
02:03 jrhunt fair enough
02:04 jrhunt although i would like to qualify "bad dist" as "not well-suited for pull-request challenge, given the small number of things to pull-request"
02:07 jrhunt is it possible to get information about the smoke test boxes used on CPANT?
02:07 jrhunt i.e. what versions of what packages are installed?
02:13 haarg you can email the person running the test box
02:13 haarg that's about the only option
02:14 haarg might be nice good to add a test to the dist that reported the openssl version so it's visible in test reports
02:14 haarg doesn't help for existing reports, but could for things in the future
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09:32 dolmen pink_mist, about Kwalitee: http://cpants.cpanauthors.org/kwalitee
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09:38 dolmen jrhunt, about "it can be frustrating finding meaningful things to contribute to a mature dist with few bugs, good test coverage and great docs"...
09:39 dolmen jrhunt, take it the other way: be glad to have to browse clean code from which you can learn as a good example
09:40 dolmen jrhunt, reading others code exercises your critical sense, and make you improve
09:40 dolmen jrhunt, one other benefit of that challenge :)
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10:08 monsieurp dolmen: +1
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10:10 monsieurp sawyer: is your script kaputt ?
10:29 ribasushi monsieurp: he is flying, won't be interconnected for a while
10:30 Su-Shee so we only had 20 ops instead of 2983402? OH GOD OH GOD :)
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11:35 btyler re helping with a mature dist: rwstauner had a great suggestion for me and Config::MVP::Slicer -- the dist is well tested, stable for a long time, etc, but he'd been meaning to put some of his modules on travisCI/coveralls. I suspect that might be a nice bit of low-hanging fruit on a lot of dists
12:08 neilb btyler: if you’re on the mailing list, you wanna mail that suggestion to the list as well. I’ll add it to the list of ideas
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13:29 daveh So what if my github page doesn't have an "issues" link?
13:31 mvuets daveh: are you an author or a contributor?
13:31 daveh the package I'm working PR on
13:32 mvuets daveh: check out its metacpan.org page, it should have a link to an authority bugtracker
13:32 mvuets daveh: likely it's rt.perl.org
13:32 daveh it is, but I thought we were porting bug reports to github?
13:32 mvuets so authors disable github issues page to avoid maintaining two sources
13:32 daveh so choose the wrong one
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13:33 mvuets daveh: ehm, i didn't this rumor
13:33 daveh parse error
13:33 mvuets daveh: what did you make think so?
13:33 jkg daveh: who is "we" in that sentence?
13:34 daveh pr-challengers
13:34 daveh maybe it was floated as an idea and discarded
13:34 jkg I'm not aware of any suggestion that we should do that; shouldn't we leave it up to the maintainers where they want to track their bugs?
13:35 jkg unilaterally replacing their bug tracking system seems a little ... impolite
13:35 mvuets daveh: well, if your dist buddy is really willing to do so... but it's definitely not a common PR idea
13:35 Lee leave it up to the maintainers, but if they put their repo on github ask if they would like to copy issues their too
13:35 mvuets after all, it does not qualify as a PR (-:
13:35 Lee s/their/there/
13:36 jkg Lee: are there tools for keeping RT and github issues in sync, at all?
13:36 jkg if not, having both could get messy quickly :-)
13:36 Lee https://github.com/leejo/rt-to-github
13:36 Lee it could be tweaked to sync
13:36 jkg hrm, I guess 1-way sync might be enough
13:37 * jkg shrugs. none of my dists have any open tickets _or_ issues ;)
13:38 mvuets jkg: wow, bug-free dists! (=
13:38 Lee the "sync" could be closing the RT issue (but i decided not to do that when i copied across my issues)
13:38 daveh never mind
13:38 jkg mvuets: nah, just nobody has found/reported the bugs yet ;)
13:38 daveh next question: anyone got an OS/2 VM I can test on?
13:39 jkg daveh: cpantesters doesn't have any test reports from OS/2 newer than 2008, I think you might be SOL on that one.
13:40 jkg unless I'm searching http://stats.cpantesters.org/mosname.html for the wrong string :-)
13:40 daveh this is a 2012 bug
13:42 daveh ok, dist owner went a long way with the OS/2 thing, the reporter is using a nonstandard combo of s/w. aborted.
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13:43 mvuets daveh: maybe try luck asking this person if he's got any VM around? https://metacpan.org/source/SHAY/perl-5.20.1/README.os2#L2734
13:43 daveh No
13:43 daveh owner did a lot and didn't get that far
13:43 daveh i'm not poking that hornets nest
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13:53 daveh ARGH
13:54 daveh I hate rubbish internet
14:00 popl at least you have access
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14:03 nawglan mornin
14:04 daveh "...in CentOS with perl 5.8.8..."
14:04 daveh I love archaeology
14:04 nawglan that's almost as bad as me being forced to do perl on windows. 8)
14:05 tbushell why not do a perlbrew and add your own version?
14:07 daveh well, at least linuxen I can do VMs for
14:07 ribasushi daveh: how is this archeology?
14:09 popl daveh: the code at $work is a mix of stuff from circa 2001 onwards.
14:09 popl archaeology indeed
14:10 nawglan sounds fun. popl
14:10 popl luckily it all mostly works with 5.18.2
14:10 popl So we get to use 5.18.2
14:10 popl I've managed to sneak bits of Moose in here and there.
14:11 dolmen daveh: PR are just a new/modern way to submit *patches*
14:11 popl It usually takes me longer to track down the problem then it does to actually fix the problem.
14:11 dolmen daveh: issues have to be submitted on the bugtracker that the maintainer specified in META and that is visible on MetaCPAN
14:12 dolmen daveh, usually Github or rt.cpan.org
14:13 dolmen daveh, even if the issues tab is not enabled on Github you will be able to submit a PR
14:14 dolmen daveh, if the bugtracker is rt.cpan.org, I recommend to post a link to your PR from the relevant ticket (or a new one) on rt.cpan.org
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14:18 daveh I am very much doubting I will have any material contribution to this dist
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14:39 dolmen daveh, which dist is it?
14:57 dolmen the 2 PR I have submitted for my challenge have been merged! Yeah!
14:58 ambs \o/
15:03 dolmen still half a month to submit many more!
15:06 Relequestual daveh woooo
15:06 Relequestual I haven't done mine yet =[ Too busy making other pull requests...
15:06 Relequestual shush!
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16:14 moritz Relequestual: ~13 days left
16:15 Relequestual I know I should get busy!
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16:17 mvuets Relequestual: did you get perlbrew by chance?
16:17 Relequestual I did!
16:17 Relequestual =]
16:17 Relequestual which is awesome
16:18 Relequestual why do you ask? =]
16:18 mvuets ah! it's a fount of PR's!
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16:19 mvuets i was bugged my something few days ago, wondered if someone of #cpanpr participants could fix it (-: neilb revealed perlbrew got assigned to you
16:20 * dolmen prefers plenv
16:20 neilb mvuets: of course you can find that out yourself, now I’ve published the list of assignments :-)
16:21 mvuets neilb: that's exactly the reason i do not hesitate to talk about it openly (-:
16:21 mvuets dolmen: now that you reminded me about plenv, i should check it out, thanks
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16:22 mvuets dolmen: quick question, does it integrate with local::lib?
16:22 ambs neilb: where is it?
16:22 ambs neilb: the list, I mean
16:22 neilb ambs: http://rawgit.com/CPAN-PRC/resources/master/january.html
16:22 mvuets dolmen: ah, figured: "Unlike perlbrew, plenv doesn't provide built-in local::lib integrations, but plenv-contrib implements use and lib commands for a replacement"
16:22 ambs thanks!
16:23 mvuets neilb: not everyone follows your twitter which implies you should send a note to the ml (-;
16:23 neilb ah, did I not?
16:23 dolmen mvuets, the point of plenv is that you usually don't need local::lib anymore: every perl module is installed in the perl dirs
16:24 mvuets dolmen: so far local::lib was the only reason i started using perlbrew
16:24 ambs hmms, the ‘true’ module might be complicated
16:24 dolmen local::lib with multiple perls is a nightmare
16:24 * ambs follows neilb, but didn’t notice it
16:24 mvuets dolmen: i wanted to test if i got all prereqs right, and installed a dist in question on a bare perl
16:25 mvuets ambs: aye, a downside of twitter announcements - they live at a given point in time
16:25 * ambs nods
16:26 ambs neilb: you aren’t the first in the list? how come? :-D
16:26 neilb I wasn’t first to sign up
16:26 neilb :-)
16:26 ambs :D
16:27 dolmen http://rawgit.com/CPAN-PRC/resources/master/january.html
16:27 mvuets oh, that lists members in order of applications?
16:27 neilb by default, yes. Then you can sort on any of the columns
16:27 mvuets how sweet! didn't know that
16:28 mvuets heh, i thought i applied so late
16:28 ambs I noticed it wasn’t sorted by any column, so implied it would be sorted by application date :-)
16:28 mvuets i thought it was random order like in hash keys
16:29 mvuets "last released by" links aren't pointing anywhere useful (read: broken)
16:31 dolmen neilb: the "Pull crew member" is a github account, isn't it?
16:31 Su-Shee mvuets: oh dear god you have soap::lite? my condolences..
16:31 mvuets Su-Shee: (= i know, right?
16:32 neilb yup. to differentiate between the github username of the repo
16:32 mvuets neilb++ for the great list, btw
16:33 mvuets how to invite purl to the channel?
16:33 Su-Shee mvuets: really, horrible. I'm almost willing to share my chocolate cake with you now :)
16:34 Su-Shee mvuets: constant source of unhappiness in #perl, lots of people needing help with it
16:34 mvuets Su-Shee: ow, it's so kind of you, thanks
16:34 neilb mvuets: thanks
16:35 Su-Shee hmm, there's a handful of modules I would have liked to clean up ;)
16:35 mvuets Su-Shee: i actually was happy to work with it once. going to blog few posts on it
16:36 Su-Shee mvuets: it's still horrible, "oh great! SOAP!" <-- nobody, ever. :)
16:36 Su-Shee mvuets: it certainly is an important module.
16:37 mvuets but i don't dare to do drastic changes to it (although there plenty of possibilities), because am not a user of it anymore
16:37 mvuets Su-Shee: fwiw soap != soap::lite
16:37 mvuets but both are... mmm... not nice
16:39 Su-Shee mvuets: I know. I know all of them ;) former company has paid for SOAP modules in perl because they needed them so badly :)
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16:45 monsieurp awesome list btw thanks
16:47 Topic for #pr-challenge is now 'pr-challenge CPAN PR Challenge: https://github.com/CPAN-PRC/resources | public logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/pr-challenge/today | January assignments: http://rawgit.com/CPAN-PRC/resources/master/january.html'
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17:42 ribasushi ether: that's nice
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19:30 mstr mvuets: which of all the millions of open perlbrew issues is the one which you are dying for to get fixed?
19:31 mstr also- is it normal that owners of projects leave issues open even though they are obviously fixed _and_ from 1872?
19:31 mstr some kind of github netiquette?
19:31 pink_mist certainly not :/
19:32 pink_mist but it might be that they simply forgot to reference the issue in their commit message, or referenced the wrong issue, and never noticed? maybe
19:32 pink_mist I'm grasping at straws
19:32 thrig ETOOLAZY
19:33 mstr just makes contributing very hard if you can't even see the real (still open) bugs from the list of crap
19:35 pink_mist perhaps you can make pull requests where you simply reference some issues as closed? I'm not sure if/how that works at github
19:45 oalders you could reference the closing commit in the issue and ask the owner to close it
19:55 mvuets mstr: the last one that bit me was https://github.com/gugod/App-perlbrew/issues/409
19:55 mvuets mstr: perhaps it's fixed and only need to be release in a form of fatpacked perlbrew exec file
19:56 mstr wouldn't be surprised. 0.72 only left the docks once i informed gugod that the gh-pages were not updated..
19:58 mvuets doesn't it redirect to gugod/perlbrew/HEAD:perlbrew?
19:58 mvuets (...and HEAD:perlbrew-install)
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20:10 mstr it loads perlbrew-install from master
20:11 mstr but perlbrew itself from http://gugod.github.io/App-perlbrew/perlbrew
20:12 mvuets mstr: maybe you can explain me how does it work? because i checked that and could not find even the App-perlbrew dir at his https://github.com/gugod/gugod.github.com
20:13 haarg https://github.com/gugod/App-perlbrew/tree/gh-pages
20:13 mstr thats the official command to install: curl -L http://install.perlbrew.pl | bash
20:14 mstr this will download perlbrew-install from https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gugod/App-perlbrew/master/perlbrew-install
20:14 mvuets haarg: ooohhh, so magic branches! suspected something like this, but didn't know about this feature. where is it documented?
20:14 mstr and that shell script loads perlbrew then from the mentioned github page
20:14 haarg https://pages.github.com/
20:15 mvuets here it is https://help.github.com/articles/creating-project-pages-manually/#create-a-gh-pages-branch
20:15 mstr why he's doing that- i don't know. seems to me the fatpacked perlbrew could also be downloaded from raw.githubusercontent....
20:15 mvuets note to self: don't create a branch named gh-pages
20:16 mvuets mstr: right
20:16 mstr then he wouldn't have to update the gh-pages branch
20:16 mvuets haarg++ thanks
20:16 mvuets mstr: so now he has to maintain _two_ artifacts
20:17 mstr yup. thats why i got 0.71 while 0.72 was released already officially some time ago
20:17 mvuets version 0.72 does not seem to fix the problem though
20:17 mstr no
20:17 mstr different story
20:17 mvuets i wanted to build it myself from tip, but didn't bother to follow non-trivial process
20:17 mstr seems to me that pb is stable enough for most people and either gugod is busy or the project is on very low fire
20:18 mvuets after all i went back to the old version from my os repo
20:18 mvuets mstr: i guess the projects is good enought, 80/20 and all that
20:18 mstr what do you mean "build from tip" and complicated process?
20:19 mvuets and building the project yourself leads to the chicken-egg problem (-:
20:19 mstr just fire up that one command line in a new user account (if you want to) and pb is installed
20:19 mstr it is really nothing else but 90% perl (simple perl mostly) in on module and some lines of shell code
20:19 mvuets mstr: i mean fatpack the HEAD or master version
20:20 mstr you wont need that for testing
20:20 mstr clone his repo
20:20 mstr jump into the working directory of your clone
20:20 mstr "perl -I lib bin/perlbrew list"
20:20 mvuets dev-bin/build.sh wants perl-5.8.8@perlbrew
20:21 mvuets ok
20:21 mvuets carry on
20:21 mstr once your tests are done just commit your branch, push und PR
20:21 mstr you don't need to fatpack
20:21 mstr gugod will do that before merging into his master
20:22 mvuets oh, sorry. we aren't on the same page
20:22 mstr also important: all work is done on the "develop" branch. so branch off from there and you're good to go
20:22 mvuets you propose a procedure to hack on the project and send pr's?
20:22 mstr yes, what did you want to do?
20:22 mvuets build a dev version for my own usage
20:23 mvuets make a drop-in replacement, in other words
20:24 mstr i don't understand where you're going with this. why would you want to?
20:24 mvuets some bugs were fixed post-0.72
20:24 mstr not that i know of. 0.72 is the latest in his "develop" branch and this was "just" released
20:25 mvuets i have no clear idea why (-: it was an interim spontaneous desire one lonely evening
20:25 mstr he didn't merge anything into his develop since then
20:26 mvuets oh, really. let me check something
20:26 mvuets latest release is 0.72, correct?
20:27 mvuets do i read it correct, that it took place last year on oct 27 then? https://github.com/gugod/App-perlbrew/commit/60f01fc1d12670653777e7fa4d0259a60fd8eb9d
20:27 mstr no, you're right. there are some commits after
20:27 mvuets so ~3 month ago
20:27 mstr yes. oct 27 was 0.72
20:27 mvuets ah, good. i am not crazy (-:
20:27 mvuets so, a while ago
20:28 mvuets and a dozen commits after that, aye
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20:28 mvuets i think i was looking for this fix: https://github.com/gugod/App-perlbrew/commit/ad966d3d5d28d452693001d156d1faea8b5b4e6d
20:29 mvuets plus, of course, i could have custom patches applied locally
20:30 mstr yeah, i don't get that. i think this is what i meant with "that project is way low on heat" :)
20:32 mstr also. it's kinda lonely in the #perlbrew channel ;-)
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