Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #pr-challenge, 2015-01-16

| Channels | #pr-challenge index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 * neilb is about to do his hangout onair with milwaukee PM. Hopefully.
00:04 ether woo!
00:04 ether is it streaming somewhere?
00:04 meredith may your uh, latencies be low and your QoS guaranteed!
00:05 bentglasstube https://plus.google.com/events/ch1dsurerkpsp58ekjm7906ut0s is the link I think
00:08 ether o/
00:10 neilb hmm….
00:18 neilb send Steve Nolte a message on google+ if you want to join - looks like he has to invite you?
00:19 ether I can see neilb and hear the other guy
00:19 ether I think you just need to send an invite if they are to participate, vs. just listening.
00:19 neilb ah
00:20 ether neilb: you have an echo problem
00:20 ether it's not horrible though, but there's a bit of reverb
00:21 bentglasstube it's mcsnolte not neilb
00:22 bentglasstube mcsnolte puts his sounds over the projector so his mic picks up anyone else that talks
00:25 thrig OR REPEAT THE QUESTION FROM THE AUDIENCE SHEESH
00:34 ether really bad echo problem right now
01:00 ether thanks Neil! thanks Steve!
01:00 ether thanks Milwaukee!
01:00 neilb sorry, I couldn’t see your comments on IRC. I should have kept the headphones on, huh?
01:00 ether it was only bad for a brief bit
01:04 bentglasstube neilb: it was on mcsnolte's side, not yours so the headphones were fine off
01:04 bentglasstube thanks both mcsnolte and neilb for doing the meetup
01:04 neilb bentglasstube: ah, cool.
01:04 neilb thanks mcsnolte, that was fun.
01:07 neilb night all
01:13 bentglasstube is there a channel on here for perl-critic?
01:13 bentglasstube I am trying to do my PR but I might need to bug some of those devs to wrap my head around how they write these policies
01:33 bambams bentglasstube: I think that perl-critic is more of a recommendation than a law. Not everybody will agree with it. The module maintainer might not.
01:34 ether to tell neilb later -- the list of dists that don't have git repositories in metadata yet can be found here -- http://cpants.cpanauthors.org/kwalitee/meta_yml_has_repository_resource
01:53 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
01:54 snolte joined #pr-challenge
01:59 bentglasstube bambams: yeah I get that, my dist for the challenge is perl-critic ;)
02:14 athos joined #pr-challenge
02:36 mcsnolte sorry about the echo guys!
02:37 mcsnolte i heard others say there was an echo, but the youtube playback seems ok
02:38 mcsnolte oh, well, i need to hire a staff to do these hangouts, i'm pretty sure bentglasstube volunteers!
02:38 StylusEater joined #pr-challenge
02:54 StylusEa1er joined #pr-challenge
02:56 Su-Shee_ joined #pr-challenge
03:01 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
03:06 BooK joined #pr-challenge
03:06 rjbs joined #pr-challenge
03:07 kentnl_ joined #pr-challenge
03:10 bentglasstube haha
03:11 BRAD joined #pr-challenge
03:11 bentglasstube you are getting better at hangouts
03:11 bentglasstube by next month you won't need my help I bet
03:24 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
03:38 mcsnolte bentglasstube: doubt it
05:10 panshin joined #pr-challenge
05:13 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
05:16 panshin joined #pr-challenge
05:51 vairav joined #pr-challenge
06:26 sawyer joined #pr-challenge
06:42 vairav joined #pr-challenge
07:02 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
07:15 sawyer joined #pr-challenge
07:25 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
07:39 Lee joined #pr-challenge
07:45 tbushell joined #pr-challenge
07:50 jevin joined #pr-challenge
07:55 sue joined #pr-challenge
08:17 neilb joined #pr-challenge
08:56 shorty_mu joined #pr-challenge
08:57 mvuets joined #pr-challenge
09:03 neilb joined #pr-challenge
09:10 Relequestual joined #pr-challenge
09:31 neilb joined #pr-challenge
09:45 Relequestual joined #pr-challenge
09:53 panshin joined #pr-challenge
09:56 panshin_ joined #pr-challenge
10:26 sue joined #pr-challenge
10:55 punter joined #pr-challenge
11:05 sue joined #pr-challenge
11:46 panshin joined #pr-challenge
12:01 reneeb joined #pr-challenge
13:00 jevin joined #pr-challenge
13:03 pflanze The links on http://rawgit.com/CPAN-PRC/resources/master/january.html don't work for me.
13:04 pflanze "CPAN Dist" are ~all giving 404,
13:04 pflanze and "Github repo" likewise "Not found"
13:05 pflanze Thankfully the URLs in the link text for "Github repo" work.
13:27 G_SabinoMullane joined #pr-challenge
13:33 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
13:43 Relequestual If I don't manage to make my pull request this month, does the repo I've been given roll over to next month or does everyone re-shuffle?
13:44 popl Relequestual: I don't think it is set in stone.
13:45 popl Relequestual: Why are you unable to make your pull request?
13:45 Relequestual popl I'm off to the states for work next week, all week
13:45 Relequestual I know that's only 1 week of 4
13:45 Relequestual I still might be able to do it mind =]
13:47 popl I haven't even begun working on mine.
13:47 popl I forked the repository on github and cloned it locally but that's as far as I've gotten.
13:48 popl I already communicated with the maintainer, though.
13:48 Su-Shee I finished mine last weekend because that's the only time I have this month.
13:50 dolmen Relequestual, if you don't make your PR this mont, you lose.
13:50 popl lose what?
13:51 dolmen Relequestual, do you know that Github is also available from the USA?
13:51 Su-Shee popl: the only barely veiled competition a couple of people are making out of it :)
13:51 popl Su-Shee: It was veiled?
13:51 dolmen popl, lose the challenge
13:51 popl Su-Shee: Did you not see the "first!" posts in the Google Group?
13:52 Su-Shee popl: hence me adding a "barely" in front of it ;)
13:52 popl dolmen: If I had considered this a competition then I would have never joined it.
13:52 popl Su-Shee: sure
13:52 Su-Shee me neither.
13:53 dolmen neither :)
13:53 Relequestual dolmen lol yeah, but I'll be working extra hard or seeing stuff (never been to the states before)
13:53 Relequestual it's not a competition, but a challenge =]
13:53 popl Relequestual: To which part are you traveling?
13:53 Relequestual Miami =]
13:54 popl That's not ours anymore.
13:54 Relequestual ?
13:54 popl It's Cuba Light.
13:54 popl :)
13:54 ptc joined #pr-challenge
13:54 Relequestual huh?
13:55 popl Relequestual: The city is filled with Cuban expats and locally-grown Cuban-Americans.
13:56 dolmen Am I the only one to now get https://raw.githubusercontent.com/CPAN-PRC/resources/master/january.html as text/plain (HTML source) instead of rendered HTML?
13:56 popl Relequestual: some 70% of the city is made up of those claiming Hispanic origins.
13:56 Relequestual dolmen my new lines didn't show correctly in the email =[
13:56 popl Relequestual: Florida also has our retirees.
13:56 Relequestual popl interesting! Well I'm looking forward to it =]
13:57 popl Relequestual: There are lots of beautiful people.
13:57 Relequestual sounds good to me =]
13:58 popl Relequestual: It's also really humid.
13:58 popl Like seriously.
13:58 dolmen Relequestual, you will have few hours of plane to work on your PR...
13:58 Relequestual mmm =s
13:58 Relequestual dolmen haha =]
13:58 Relequestual no power to keep the laptop running and it has to turn on at the other end
14:01 dolmen neilb: you should put january.html in the gh-pages branch which is special on Github.
14:02 neilb huh?
14:07 neilb dolmen: I beg your pardon old chap, but I don’t have the first bloody clue what you’re talking about.
14:07 popl pip pip
14:07 monsieurp ahahah :)
14:08 dolmen neilb: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/CPAN-PRC/resources/master/january.html is now shown by Github as text/plain
14:09 neilb but http://rawgit.com/CPAN-PRC/resources/master/january.html shows it fine.
14:09 dolmen ok
14:10 neilb I’m gonna sort out the github.io stuff at some point
14:11 dolmen neilb: the HTML is corrupted anyway: members are not sown anymore
14:11 dolmen s/sown/shown/
14:12 dolmen and the CPAN dist columns links to metacpan with the crew member in the URL
14:13 dolmen which of course gives a 404
14:16 neilb reload it now :-)
14:17 dolmen better. Could you link the crew name to its github home page. Ex: https://github.com/dolmen for dolmen
14:18 dolmen neilb: ... and hide the "https://github.com/" in the Github repo column
14:18 neilb yeah, that’s on my list
14:21 neilb dolmen: done
14:22 dolmen neilb: some GH repo have a '/' at the end
14:23 dolmen adrianh/test-class/
14:23 neilb probably meant that’s what ’s in the metadata. I’ll strip it :-)
14:26 neilb dolmen: done - IRC-driven-development FTW!
14:27 dolmen I've heard some people do PR-driven-development. Wonder what it is and if if that's more efficient...
14:30 jkg public-relations driven development? I know some companies that do that ;)
14:33 popl jkg: you and me both brother
14:34 dolmen :)
14:34 dolmen neilb: could you also publish january as JSON?
14:35 popl wat
14:35 manchicken joined #pr-challenge
14:35 * neilb puts JSON on his todo list
14:35 dolmen neilb: that would open the door to interesting mashups...
14:35 popl neilb: have you got a gopher server you could post it to?
14:36 neilb I’ll put it on my BBS running on a C=64
14:36 popl sweet
14:36 popl I'll bring the Jolt.
14:37 Su-Shee what did you guys say last? my modem hung up.. :(
14:37 popl Su-Shee: +++ATH)
14:37 popl SHOOT
14:37 popl :P
14:38 fuzzix C=64, for when a ZX Spectrum is just 2fast4u
14:39 popl Su-Shee: http://i.imgur.com/sTZLwyw.jpg
14:39 Su-Shee popl: that's horrible.
14:40 popl Su-Shee: http://i.imgur.com/0ElitX1.jpg
14:40 popl Su-Shee: I don't know the reason but the author said she had to have her cat shaved.
14:40 popl Medical reason maybe.
14:41 Su-Shee and now I have to suffer from unseen? ;)
14:41 popl Suffer?
14:41 popl It's just a fat cat. :P
14:41 popl wearing Uggs
14:42 popl Su-Shee: You're just a fair-weather cat lover, aren't you?
14:43 nawglan joined #pr-challenge
14:43 nawglan got my first PR in last night. 8)
14:43 popl \o/
14:44 nawglan was even granted co-maint. heh.  let the work begin.
14:44 dolmen \o/
14:46 Relequestual colleague is looking at git log flags... anyone know if there's a website where you can like check boxes / radio buttons to generate your git log commands? (feel like there should be one if there isn't)
14:47 dolmen neilb: add a link to the PRs opened by the gamer. Ex: https://github.com/ingydotnet/yaml-libyaml-pm/pulls/nawglan
14:48 dolmen better: https://github.com/ingydotnet/yaml-libyaml-pm/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Anawglan
14:48 dolmen as it will also show closed PRs
14:51 neilb that’s a good link — on todo list now
15:15 tinypig joined #pr-challenge
15:18 andy_j joined #pr-challenge
15:19 gryphon joined #pr-challenge
15:20 andy_j hi, i just created my PAUSE account - is there any reason not to make my publicly visible email account my new @cpan.org email?
15:21 thrig spaaaaaam
15:22 mvuets cpan spam is amusing
15:23 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
15:36 andy_j is there much of a reason to set the publicly visible email address then?
15:39 panshin joined #pr-challenge
15:41 ph joined #pr-challenge
15:45 ph Hi all. Have been given a module with very few options but without a README on github. It's a Dist::Zilla module, so will create a README but has none in the repo. Would creating a README manually for the github repo be a worthwhile task?
15:56 neilb ph: probably worth asking the author if (s)he is ok with that. You could also ask in #distzilla about “the right way” to do that, if there is one.
15:56 neilb have you checked out your dist on cpancover.com? :-)
15:57 ph No, but it really is a trivial dist - one module < 100 lines.
15:57 ph And the tests are generated by Dist::Zilla anyway.
15:59 kanashiro joined #pr-challenge
16:00 ph I'll approach the maintainer about the README as a first stab. Thanks for the advice. Just wanted to check this was not a daft idea.
16:00 neilb ph: what’s the module?
16:01 ph It's dist-zilla-app-command-podpreview
16:02 neilb given it’s so small, you could ask in #distzilla whether it follows best practice for a DZ command - they might be able to suggest something
16:04 neilb you could improve the doc as well. I’m not clear what it does, as I don’t know what “munged pod” is
16:04 ph :) Yes the docs are pretty terse.
16:04 Ptolemarch joined #pr-challenge
16:04 vroom joined #pr-challenge
16:05 ph It essentially converts the POD to HTML and launches the default browser to view it as it would appear on cpan.org
16:07 neilb It use’s a load of modules. All command modules get loaded, even if they’re not run, so it’s good practice to only require modules when you need them.
16:08 neilb eg you could require App::PodPreview, then change the last line to App::PodPreview::podpreview($filename);
16:09 ph Yes, that's one of the issues on RT and I could have a go at that but I am not a Dist::Zilla'er hence after something slightly less daunting.
16:09 ph The easy issue on RT has actually already been patched :-)
16:09 neilb :-)
16:11 neilb There’s also the nested use of first { … } — that at least needs a comment. It may be a common pattern in DZIL plugins (I don’t know), but it’s gonna take most people a while to get their head around :-)
16:13 ph Yes, that's certainly worth a look too. Thanks.
16:34 deven joined #pr-challenge
16:35 deven left #pr-challenge
16:36 deven joined #pr-challenge
16:36 deven hi folks
16:37 neilb o/
16:37 nawglan hola
16:40 deven I've been trying to convince my local pm group to do what I was calling an "Ironman GitHub Challenge" -- to just release something, anything, to GitHub at least once a month.  Nobody seemed too eager though.  Someone sent the link to Neil's blog post for this challenged, and I thought it was a great idea to sign up.  Of course, now I'm expected to actually DO something! lol
16:41 nawglan heh.  You have been assimilated.
16:42 nawglan I think this challenge is great.  It helps CPAN authors a lot, improves code reusability, and lets us newbs rub elbows with the greats that went before us.
16:43 oeuftete joined #pr-challenge
16:44 deven I'm a relative n00b as a CPAN author (just one public module released) but not with Perl in general -- I've been programming Perl for 25 years. :)
16:44 neilb deven: good suggestion, I’ve updated the page
16:45 deven neilb++
16:55 deven So you assigned me Hailo.  Not familiar with it, but it looks interesting.  Now I just have to figure out what to do for it.
16:55 deven Bug #96979 looks like a good one, I could fix it to use Moo instead of Any::Moose.
16:56 PerlJam deven: you sound like me.   I too have been programming in Perl for about 25ish years, but only within the last 5 or so have I contributed anything to CPAN (and mostly that was crap ;)
16:56 deven lol
16:57 neilb PerlJam: so you’re saying deven’s one module on CPAN is crap, then? :-)
16:58 neilb How to make friends an influence people, perl style!
16:58 nawglan and the gauntlet drops. 8)
16:58 * neilb has to go pick up his kids &
16:59 gryphon neilb: You know one of the unexpected (by me) consequences of PRC is my being forced to learn about very useful modules I had previously ignored.
16:59 nawglan gryphon: same here.  I'm looking forward to the next 11 months.
17:01 isBEKaml joined #pr-challenge
17:01 StylusEater joined #pr-challenge
17:02 deven Was this done last year, or is this PRC thing new this year?  It's a great idea.
17:03 deven neilb: I guess that's a question for you. :)
17:03 deven oh, and he left. lol
17:03 nawglan I believe this is the first year.
17:03 haarg this is the first time it's been done
17:03 PerlJam and it's definitely a good idea.
17:04 PerlJam Though, feeling a moment of ambition, I thought, "a PR is so easy ... I should do one a week!"  But I think that way lies the road to broken new year's resolution  :)
17:12 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
17:14 StylusEa1er joined #pr-challenge
17:15 bentglasstube deven: he did a challenge of sorts last year but only about 12 people participated so this is the first one of this scale
17:22 deven How many people are participating this year?
17:23 PerlJam 350+
17:23 PerlJam I don't know the exact number
17:32 neilb joined #pr-challenge
17:33 neilb First Milwaukee sign up after last night \o/
17:33 deven PerlJam: Wow, good guess!  There are 351 people listed in the published list!
17:33 deven neilb: How many unpublished participants?
17:34 gryphon neilb: You know one of the unexpected (by me) consequences of PRC is my being forced to learn about very useful modules I had previously ignored.
17:34 deven neilb: You were offline when I asked this earlier: Was this done last year, or is this PRC thing new this year?  It's a great idea.
17:36 boreas_ joined #pr-challenge
17:38 neilb deven: this is the inaugural year :-)
17:38 neilb gryphon: good to hear!
17:38 deven neilb: Too bad this wasn't started many years ago!
17:38 isBEKaml joined #pr-challenge
17:38 thrig Democratic People's Republic of CPAN?
17:38 deven lol
17:38 neilb deven: there is some number of unpublished participants. Next time I announce the total number of startups, you can work it out from the published list
17:39 neilb not many
17:39 deven neilb: You can't just tell us how many are unpublished?
17:41 Ptolemarch joined #pr-challenge
17:41 PerlJam neilb: yeah Neil!  You're already volunteering your time for this stuff, can't you just give a little more to satisfy our need to know random stats about the challenge?!?   ;)
17:41 neilb deven: no, i’m too lazy to go look it up :-p
17:42 PerlJam (I'm apparently still trying to make friends and influence people ;)
17:42 ribasushi indeed, neilb ought to be ashamed of himself
17:43 deven neilb: Thought maybe it was a secret. :)
17:43 deven neilb: I counted 351 assignments in the public list -- do you know the total number offhand?
17:44 deven I don't expect you to go look it up. :)
17:44 neilb 35[6-9]
17:44 deven So there's just a handful of unpublished participants.
17:44 isBEKaml deven: well, isn't 350+ big enough already? :-)
17:44 deven isBEKaml: It's a great start. :)
17:44 deven For something like this, more is always better, right?
17:45 thrig mythical man month probably doesn't apply (much)
17:45 deven neilb: How do you choose which modules to assign?  And are the authors aware or will they be surprised when we ask?
17:45 panshin joined #pr-challenge
17:45 deven thrig: Not when these are all independent assignments.
17:45 bentglasstube neilb: who signed up from Milwaukee if they haven't asked to be kept private?
17:47 ribasushi deven: "The CPAN distributions will be taken from a list of those which have github repositories, and which meet some of the criteria for the adoption list. " (http://blogs.perl.org/users/neilb/2014/12/take-the-2015-cpan-pull-request-challenge.html)
17:47 ribasushi deven: also there was (a bit too-close-to-act-on) call to authors: http://blogs.perl.org/users/neilb/2014/12/bring-out-yer-distributions.html
17:48 deven ribasushi: thanks!
17:48 neilb it was all a bit of a scramble for January, as I was only expecting a handful of particpants, and that I would hand pick the dists
17:48 nawglan I should add my module to the list. 8)  First PR would be to actually write the module for me. *evil grin*
17:49 PerlJam "In January more than 50 perl hackers will be starting the CPAN pull request challenge."    heh.
17:49 * PerlJam DCCs neilb a crystal ball for next time.
17:49 vairav joined #pr-challenge
17:49 thrig what, it's correct
17:50 PerlJam correct but a little under stated
17:50 nawglan It would be cool if this thing keeps momentum up after the end of the year.  A horde of workers willing to take on the stuff that other people have been procrastinating on.
17:50 nawglan my first pr was to apply a patch that was almost 5 years old...
17:53 neilb PR-driven development: create an empty module with a todo list, put it on github, link the repo in the dist’s metadata and release it to CPAN. Wait for it to get assigned …
17:53 nawglan heh
17:54 thrig now I just need to find some sucker willing to write up 15th century business logic rules
17:55 nawglan wasn't that just "Tell slaves to do the work?"
17:59 deven neilb: That may have been intended as tongue-in-cheek, but I think it's actually a really good idea.  Although I'd rather see a stub module like that only exist on github until something useful is ready for CPAN release so it doesn't make a claim on the namespace prematurely.
17:59 PerlJam if you reply to an issue on RT, the person who filed it gets an email, right?
17:59 neilb yup
17:59 thrig requestor should, yes
18:00 PerlJam thanks
18:00 gryphon neilb: PRDD isn't a bad idea, actually. If there's interest in and use for an idea, people will PR it. Otherwise, it's abandoned.
18:00 gryphon Also what deven said.
18:01 deven Are there any established best practices for starting development of a Perl module on github before pushing it to CPAN?
18:02 pink_mist putting it on github is one of the first things I do, generally
18:02 pink_mist (not that I've made many modules for CPAN)
18:03 deven I've decided to start all new development on github for most projects I do on my own time, but I don't find much time for such things. :)
18:03 gryphon I wonder if there needs to be a "precpan.org" that lists github projects that are pre-CPAN.
18:03 PerlJam deven: you might want to use one of the tools that make the directory structure and requisite files for you.
18:03 PerlJam deven: whether that's a "best practice" probably depends on you though :)
18:04 deven For example, CPAN is indexed.  Is there any sort of index for Perl modules on github that are NOT on CPAN?
18:05 deven Using CPAN for totally experimental modules, or for ones you're likely to abandon, seems a bit rude to me -- making a claim on the first-come, first-serve namespace of CPAN that interferes with other people who may have a more serious intent to use that name...
18:06 pink_mist that kind of module works alright under Acme:: or perhaps your pause id as namespace
18:06 deven Plus a CPAN release is also an invitation to rely on the code, and if you don't feel it's ready for that yet (too unstable, experimenting with the API, etc), you might not want to encourage that.
18:07 neilb gryphon: you aware of prepan.org? that + github is precpan, I guess
18:07 deven pink_mist: I can see using the PAUSE id as a namespace, at least you can avoid conflicts that way.  Is there an established convention for that, or are you thinking of the ID as a top-level namespace?
18:08 pink_mist I don't know if there's a convention, I was just thinkging the id as top level namespace, yes
18:08 deven neilb: Ooh, I forgot about prepan.org.  That's the sort of thing I mean by "best practices" :)
18:09 deven pink_mist: But if everyone does that, it clutters the top-level namespace horribly.  I'm thinking something more like Acme::Experimental::MY_PAUSE_ID::Module
18:09 nawglan deven: that is what the Acme:: namespace is for.
18:09 pink_mist true .. hmm, maybe Task::?
18:10 deven nawglan: Hence my suggestion.
18:10 nawglan ya
18:10 haarg i don't think there's really any concern about "cluttering" the index
18:11 PerlJam it's too bad that such a convention didn't grow up early in CPAN's existence
18:11 deven A subtree under Acme:: intended to contain subtrees matching PAUSE ids seems good.
18:11 deven PerlJam: Better late than never.  Like this challenge. :)
18:11 deven neilb++
18:12 deven haarg: Don't be so sure.  One of the biggest complaints I've heard about CPAN is that it's a cluttered mess and there's no way to know what modules are good and worthwhile and what sucks.
18:12 deven Cluttering the main namespace with experimental crap just makes it worse.
18:13 PerlJam yeah, what deven said
18:13 haarg there's nothing special about the main namespace though
18:13 nawglan that's where meta-cpan comes in.  there is a way to vote on the more popular modules.
18:13 deven haarg: Not by design, it's more of a psychological thing.
18:13 haarg having an indication in the name of the experimental nature is reasonable
18:14 PerlJam maybe we should start the WIP (work in progress) namespace
18:14 haarg but none of the sites for browsing cpan dists have any kind of tree based view, so i don't see why it matters if you stick the author name at the beginning or somewhere else
18:14 PerlJam modules ideally would start life in WIP::Foo and then migrate  to Foo when they mature.
18:15 PerlJam anyway ... lunch &
18:15 thrig Zygote::BioPerl ...
18:16 nawglan haarg: what do you mean by tree view?
18:16 haarg deven was talking about clutter in the main namespace
18:17 haarg as in, at the top level
18:17 haarg that only really matters if you are looking at some kind of list of top level namespaces
18:17 haarg like you would have in a tree view.  that isn't really something that exists.
18:17 nawglan you used to be able to see that on CPAN but it's been gone for a while.
18:18 nawglan it was just a block of top level namespaces
18:18 haarg not really
18:18 haarg it was a list of registered modules and some other bits
18:18 nawglan when you clicked on one eg: DBD
18:18 deven PerlJam: I like the WIP idea, but I'd go with WIP::MY_PAUSE_ID::Foo, so different experimental versions of Foo don't conflict.
18:18 nawglan or it might have been Database *shrug* was a while back, hard to think back that far.
18:18 haarg it was removed because it was never kept up to date and didn't really help anything vs just searching or whatever
18:18 Ptolemarch joined #pr-challenge
18:18 deven otherwise you're just back to namespace conflicts.
18:18 nawglan ya
18:19 ribasushi nawglan: it wasn't programatically derived, it was a hand-maintained list: http://www.cpan.org/modules/00modlist.long.html
18:20 deven haarg: There actually IS a place where the top-level clutter would suck: ftp://ftp.cpan.org/pub/CPAN/modules/by-module
18:20 nawglan that makes sense... I think I remember seeing a disclaimer stating something to that effect.
18:20 haarg deven: and that ship has long since sailed
18:20 ribasushi nawglan: it was specifically retired due to lack of updates (and lack of listing requests)
18:21 deven haarg: Yes, the ship has sailed to some degree, but as a matter of "best practices", encouraging PAUSE id-specific sub-namespaces over more clutter in the main namespaces is definitely good.
18:22 ribasushi deven: pause-id specific implies hardcoded ownership
18:22 ribasushi it is a terrible idea
18:22 haarg i don't agree
18:22 haarg (re deven)
18:23 deven ribasushi: It guarantees no conflicts.  Anyone using that code should be coordinating closely with the author anyhow.
18:23 deven Since it would all be "use at your own risk" stuff.
18:23 nawglan ribasushi: i think he was meaning for expermental and non-production ready moduls.
18:23 thrig put 'em on github or the like
18:24 ribasushi in the entire history of CPAN nobody has yet figured out a way to correctly draw the experimental/production line
18:24 nawglan ya, that's my opinion too.
18:24 ribasushi today we have a ton of experimental projects powering production
18:24 deven nawglan: I don't think it needs to be production-ready to go into the main namespace, but it ought to be at a stage of being appropriate for someone other than the developer to use at least.
18:24 ribasushi and a ton of "stable feature complete" offerings which are utter crap
18:24 nawglan ribasushi: windows being the main experiment we are using here at my $work. 8)
18:25 nawglan perl on windows is still a bit of a headache to me.
18:25 deven When it's totally experimental and perhaps being majorly refactored with no notice, other developers are best staying clear of it or working closely with the author.
18:25 deven That's why I was thinking github first, CPAN later.
18:25 ribasushi nawglan: surely s/perl on //
18:25 deven ribasushi++
18:26 haarg i don't particularly like working with windows, but it's mostly fine
18:26 haarg perl on windows is broken in a lot of ways that it doesn't need to be
18:26 nawglan ribasushi heh, ya, I agree.  but am forced to use windows as a web host.  I am still trying to get enough gumption to suggest installing a VM on the server and putting linux there. heh.
18:26 neilb estrabd++
18:26 deven I don't like working on Windows at all.  But I'd love to see as many CPAN modules as possible work cleanly on Strawberry Perl, because the more that happens, the less torture it is to work in Perl on Windows. :)
18:27 haarg perl on windows tries to pretend it's on unix, but doesn't do a good enough job for that to really work.
18:27 ribasushi deven: that part is mostly fine these days
18:27 haarg among other issues
18:27 deven ribasushi: Yes and no.  I've tried building a LOT of modules for Strawberry Perl, and most do work well these days, but there are definitely ones with problems.
18:27 nawglan the module that is giving me the hardest time on windows is Search::Xapian.  I can get the underlying library to compile, but the CPAN module totally ignores windows and needs to have the Makefile.PL completely re-written.
18:28 deven Of course, some of those are more intractable than others due to the nature of the platform, but when lots of other modules rely on a problem module, that sucks.
18:29 deven I did help fix one module for Win32: https://rt.cpan.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=84818
18:32 deven neilb: For people who don't have any ideas for their module, perhaps a standard idea to consider is making sure it builds cleanly on Strawberry Perl for Win32?
18:32 neilb yup
18:33 nawglan deven: I wish I could use Strawberry Perl. *sigh*  I have to show chain of custody from source through compile to the executable to the installer we provide the customer.
18:33 nawglan everything we provide is compiled from source.
18:33 deven nawglan: That's inconvenient.
18:33 thrig including the compiler?
18:34 nawglan yep.  over 400 perl modules to compile and a couple dozen libraries (openssl, etc.)
18:34 nawglan lol, they trust microsoft's visual studio for some reason.
18:34 estrabd neilb: thanks =)
18:34 deven nawglan: that's funny
18:34 nawglan it's the US Army.  Feel safer now? 8)
18:34 neilb estrabd: once MetaCPAN’s indexed it, I’ll re-run my sucker
18:34 ribasushi America, fuck yeah!
18:35 * ribasushi feels safer after uttering said line
18:35 ether 17:34 <@ether> to tell neilb later -- the list of dists that don't have git repositories in metadata yet can be found here -- http://cpants.cpanauthors.org/kwalitee/meta_yml_has_repository_resource
18:35 deven neilb: If you agree, maybe put that suggestion in the intro docs somewhere?  (and I guess to eradicate warnings generally)
18:35 estrabd great
18:36 deven nawglan: Well, at least they care about the chain of custody.
18:37 deven Hmm, I think I haven't linked my CPAN module to the guthib repo.
18:38 nawglan deven: ya. and they already know about the backdoors that MS is introducing on their behalf.
18:38 neilb ether: is that dists that are on github but the repo isn’t linked, or just dists that don’t mention a repo?
18:38 nawglan anyone have an indication of when 5.20.2 will be out?
18:40 nawglan neilb: cpancover.com is coming back 404 for me.
18:40 vroom joined #pr-challenge
18:40 thrig yell "Devel and cover" and dive into the firefox hole?
18:52 ether neilb: that's dists that do not have a 'repository' field in their metadata.
18:53 ether I'm not aware of anything that searches github for perl repos that aren't properly mentioned in the release - it would be nice to have though, if someone is keen to try to code it up :)
18:53 haarg nawglan: it should be released pretty soon.  rc1 is being prepared.
18:54 ether there's already something that identifies the main language used in a repo - so you just need to search all perl repositories, then derive the distribution name, then find it on cpan and see if there is a repo listed there
18:54 haarg "hopefully in the next week or so"
18:54 nawglan haarg: ok.  was trying to get it unblocked on the work firewall (it is uncategorized) but they won't do it if they can't check the site first.
18:54 thrig ether: except XS modules can show up as mostly C
18:56 ether I wonder if there's a bit of metadata one can put in the repo to say "hey this is perl"
18:56 * ether would do that for my XS dists
18:56 ether it would help the various perl statistics that some people care about :)
18:57 thrig also, I have a scary-script-dumping ground that's mostly perl but not CPAN related
18:59 haarg but that would either not have a dist name that could be calculated, or it wouldn't be found on cpan.  probably.
19:07 vairav joined #pr-challenge
19:12 gryphon Maybe a stupid question, but after submitting a PR, it's completely safe to nuke the forked repo off github, right?
19:13 haarg i expect that would close the PR
19:14 haarg if it's been merged then it shouldn't cause an issue
19:14 neilb ether: you’ve forgotten already that I’ve written something to do that. Need to finish it and put it on github!
19:14 deven ether: Good PRDD idea. :)
19:15 ether DD?
19:15 ether neilb: well, consider this a reminder then! :)
19:16 neilb :-)
19:16 deven thrig: Your very own "Matt's Script Achive"? :)
19:16 manchicken neilb: Have you considered the unintended consequences of this PR Challenge?
19:16 gryphon ether: PRDD = pull request driven development (book to be published later this year)
19:17 deven ether: Pull Request Driven Development, per neilb's earlier (probably tongue-in-cheek) suggestion.
19:17 neilb I said nothing about tongue in cheek
19:17 deven manchicken: What unintended consequences are you imagining?
19:17 manchicken neilb: Not only are old things getting new attention, but now another module I've been contributing to has two new active contributors. That's pretty sweet. I do think that there may be a correlation between your challenge and a general up-tick in CPAN contributions on even active projects.
19:18 deven neilb: You didn't deny it either, so I didn't presume you were dead serious.
19:18 deven neilb: But serious or not, I like the idea.
19:18 deven manchicken: Surely that's an intended consequence?
19:19 deven The positive network events likely from this PRC idea are much of what makes it a brilliant idea, in my mind.
19:19 deven neilb++
19:19 manchicken deven: Oooh, so this was a more clandestine form of progress then? heh
19:19 deven manchicken: I can't speak for neilb, but it sounds like something forseeable and desirable.
19:20 reneeb joined #pr-challenge
19:21 manchicken heh
19:21 manchicken Yeah, I'm just glad to see more people jumping in.
19:22 gryphon neilb: I'm assuming shortly you'll be wanting to do assignments and status updates not via an email reply to you, yes?
19:22 gryphon Just to be clear, doesn't matter to me either way. But seems like a lot of busy work for you.
19:23 neilb ah, but the email is a good point of human interaction.
19:24 * gryphon hates human interaction. That's why he's a developer.
19:24 neilb I’ll see how it goes, but I’m intentionally keeping it human
19:24 gryphon Introversion FTW.
19:24 * neilb ponders kicking gryphon out of IRC (for his own good)
19:25 gryphon heh
19:25 thrig we'll leave food and a laptop with cpan modules on it at the edge of the forest
19:27 neilb :-)
19:28 gryphon Speaking of food... lunch&
19:33 itcharlie joined #pr-challenge
19:48 vairav joined #pr-challenge
19:49 deven neilb: Since I can't speak for you, did you have any comments on the exchange between me and manchicken earlier?
19:59 neilb which bits (i’ve been dipping in & out, as it’s kids’ bedtime)
20:04 manchicken neilb: The part where we were pointing out that you intentionally or otherwise have aided in getting people contributing to modules which are even under active development.
20:10 tinypig joined #pr-challenge
20:10 neilb intentionally. But the numbers of people doing it is what’s surprised me :-)
20:14 thrig http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/01/01
20:23 neilb deven, manchicken: but the fact that so many people are doing it, and a good number interacting with each other while doing it, is undoubtedly prompting things that wouldn’t have happened with the originally envisioned dozen or so
20:24 manchicken Absolutely. I was merely making a terrible joke.
20:25 deven neilb: This is awesome for pulling people into being more active in the community.
20:25 deven I signed up largely because I've always wanted and intended to contribute to CPAN but never seemed to find the time.  Having a monthly deadline will probably prod me into doing more. :)
20:29 manchicken Yeah. Unfortunately my module's maintainer seems MIA at the moment, but I haven't given up.
20:31 neilb manchicken: what’s your module?
20:31 manchicken App::CLI::Extension
20:31 boreas joined #pr-challenge
20:32 haarg while it's not great fun when it happens, having a PR not get merged is also an important thing to get used to when contributing to open source
20:33 haarg sometimes authors will be mia, sometimes they will disagree, and sometimes they will just be very slow
20:33 neilb manchicken: making your first PR a doc improvement can be a good approach: less sunk costs, and for this module it will be a useful addition.
20:33 neilb Also, if you haven’t looked at CPANTS for this author: http://cpants.cpanauthors.org/author/HOLLY — couple of things to do there.
20:34 ether it's a big problem in perl now, because of its age, that there are modules in widespread usage with growing bug queues but the author has moved on to something else
20:34 neilb There was a meet up in Tokyo this evening (their time). I had email with Ishigaki-san, and he said he was going to raise the PR challenge, and encourage people to engage.
20:34 ether so I"m hoping that the PR challenge will help kick them in the butt, and either come back to be more active, or find a successor for their modules
20:38 neilb manchicken: a small scoped doc PR, which updates the Changes file as well, and basically does everything ready to do a release, is probably a good first PR. Might be worth emailing Horimoto-san, and explaining what you propose to do, and why. Let me know if you don’t get any response, and I’ll see if I can help.
20:38 * thrig agitates about https://github.com/libwww-perl/libwww-perl/pull/68
20:38 * ether 65
20:41 vairav joined #pr-challenge
20:51 deven neilb: I'm hoping every Perl Mongers group encourages its members to join too.
20:51 manchicken neilb: I improved the Perlcritic strictness and got it running in Travis-CI.
20:52 manchicken neilb: It was fun.
20:55 boreas joined #pr-challenge
21:05 deven joined #pr-challenge
21:19 nawglan yo deven... you live in OH?
21:20 PerlJam neilb++ (for the PRC again, just 'cuz  :)
21:22 neilb :-)
21:22 deven newglan: Yes, Cincinnati area.
21:22 deven newglan: You?
21:22 nawglan deven: i'm just north of you in Centerville.
21:22 PerlJam BTW, I'm looking at the PRC slightly differently than the way it was framed, but I wonder if "my way" would have resulted in so much interest.  (i.e., My take on the PRC is that one module a month gets my scrutiny and brainpower and help in any way I can.  If that results in one or more PRs, great)
21:23 nawglan deven: if ya make it up my way, lunch is on me.
21:23 deven newglan: You could drive down for our monthly Cinci.pm meetings!
21:24 nawglan deven: might do that.  there doesn't seem to be a .pm meeting here in Dayton area that I know of. *shrug*
21:24 PerlJam .oO( Does deven listen to WKRP?  ;)
21:24 nawglan WKRP rocks. 8)
21:24 deven lol
21:25 deven newglan: We finally seem to have achieved critical mass after many failed attempts over the years.  We just had a meeting on Wednesday, next one is February 11.
21:25 deven We've managed to keep the meetings going every month since last July or so, with at 10-15 people at each meeting.
21:26 nawglan deven: can you send me info (nawglan@gmail.com)  Thanks.
21:26 deven Join #cinci.pm if you're interested...
21:33 nawglan left #pr-challenge
21:35 neilb PerlJam: some modules will get the scrutiny you suggest, but some will get a smaller but still helpfull PR. Many people are using this as a learning opportunity, so their early PRs at least will be smaller in scope. Hopefully some of that may change through the year. Either way, the aggregate effect should be good for CPAN.
21:47 sue joined #pr-challenge
21:49 sivoais joined #pr-challenge
22:07 cakirke joined #pr-challenge
22:51 sivoais joined #pr-challenge
22:59 boreas joined #pr-challenge
23:18 punter joined #pr-challenge
23:30 itcharlie left #pr-challenge
23:32 vroom1 joined #pr-challenge
23:44 vroom1 joined #pr-challenge

| Channels | #pr-challenge index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary