Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2011-01-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

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03:43 Topic for #rosettacode is now Rosetta Code: Coding in (inf - 1) languages. Pop a tab and stick around. This channel is logged, and occasionally published.
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14:56 Regenaxer shortcircuit: What did you mean with "even with an unknown seed"?
15:01 Regenaxer Shoudn't it be: "even with a known seed"?
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15:05 shortcircuit Regenaxer: No; the answer to the question of a known seed is obvious. An unknown seed may be considered to come from a non-deterministic source.
15:06 shortcircuit So the question becomes, with a non-deterministic starting point, is a deterministic PRNG disallowed?
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15:07 Regenaxer I would say that it is not an issue of a seed used subsequently by a deterministic generator
15:08 Topic for #rosettacode is now Rosetta Code: Coding in (inf - 1) languages. Pop a tab and stick around. This channel is logged. http://irclog.perlgeek.de/rosettacode/today
15:08 Regenaxer If some kind of hardware is involved at each step of the random number generation, mixing-in some kind of seed is irrelevant
15:09 Regenaxer So even if the seed is "known", the random numbers are not predictable or deterministic
15:09 Regenaxer Perhaps we should simply define the scope of the task at that what is covered by the Wikipedia article?
15:09 shortcircuit Hm. I think we've got a simple miscommunication here.
15:10 * shortcircuit goes back to the wiki to re-read what he said.
15:10 shortcircuit Eh.
15:10 shortcircuit Yeah, I was unclear.
15:10 shortcircuit I skipped a clause or three in writing that out.
15:12 shortcircuit The fundamental question I meant to ask: Given a seed provided by nondetermenistic means, is a PRNG acceptable?
15:12 shortcircuit Well, that's a straw question.
15:12 Regenaxer ah
15:13 Regenaxer I would say this is not the purpose of this task, but /dev/urandom is close to that
15:13 shortcircuit More, "is the fundamental drive of the task that a PRNG is unacceptable, even given a non-deterministic source for the seed"
15:13 Regenaxer Let just say that any device provided by the OS for the purpose of random number generation is OK?
15:14 Regenaxer I would not specify it with such exactness, because it will be difficult to verify
15:14 shortcircuit I think he's more looking for utilizing HRNGs transparently where available.
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15:15 Regenaxer yep
15:16 Topic for #rosettacode is now Rosetta Code: Coding in (inf - 1) languages ; http://irclog.perlgeek.de/rosettacode/today ; Pop a tab and stick around.
15:17 Regenaxer Anyway, now I understand your last post to the talk page :)
15:18 shortcircuit There's an interesting philosophical problem in there, too, but I've got paid work I need to be doing today, and I'm already knee deep in a debate on turing tests and human intelligence over on Facebook. :)
15:19 Regenaxer ok
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