Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2011-02-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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14:33 shortcircuit Ech. Something really broken on my server atm.
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19:45 mwn3d_phone shortcircuit: how's was the talk? Or is it next week?
19:50 shortcircuit mwn3d_phone: It went OK; I think I need to get a better feel for Java users.
19:50 mwn3d_phone What do you mean?
19:51 shortcircuit mwn3d_phone: The reaction was different from when I presented in front of Perl and Python coders. It wasn't critical or disintrested, just not as enthusiastic.
19:52 BenBE Got a language file for DCL today.
19:52 shortcircuit I think it's a difference in base interests. Most of them are professional coders in mostly formalized environments.
19:53 shortcircuit However, I did pick up on a developing interest in other languages that run on the JVM.
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19:55 mwn3d_phone shortcircuit: yeah I guess the site may not be too useful for professional java programmers (in a java sense) since most of the time they are using third party craziness to accomplish things
19:55 mwn3d_phone They'd want to see spring stuff or beans stuff that doesn't translate so well into other languages
19:56 mwn3d_phone JSP is probably another thing they'd want to see
19:56 mwn3d_phone I bet java educators might be more interested
19:56 mwn3d_phone Or java hobbyists
19:57 mwn3d_phone Also I did have a job once where a team was touching on jython but I didn't use it really.
19:57 mwn3d_phone I did use RC to find proper python syntax for someone else though
19:58 shortcircuit They did make analogies to Ruby in explainaining grails to me, and explained what Grails, spring and hibernate were about when I asked.
19:58 shortcircuit They also expressed a desire for a Java equivalent to CPAN.
20:00 shortcircuit (I'd asked about what spring and hibernate do, so that I might be able to think of tasks which would trigger an example writer to use them if it were convenient)
20:00 shortcircuit They also showed me the syntax for Java generics, which looks very, very similar to C++'s template syntax. (To me, anyway)
20:00 mwn3d_phone I still can't quite figure out what problem spring is solving but I hardly have any experience with it
20:01 sorear I'm pretty sure Java's generics were designed to look like C++ templates
20:01 mwn3d_phone Yeah the generics syntax was designed that way in particular
20:01 mwn3d_phone And it should be changing soon
20:01 sorear although semantically they're mcuh closer to Haskell/ML parametric polymorphism
20:01 Coderjoe it is similar
20:01 shortcircuit mwn3d_phone: Spring was explained to me as originally adding dependency injection, but it's become something aking to a God Library (ref. God Object), apparently.
20:01 Coderjoe (saw it in the minecraft-related code I was poking at over the past couple months)
20:02 shortcircuit One developer had said Spring was adding a GUI toolkit soon. Another asked, "Really?!" The first admitted he was only joking.
20:02 shortcircuit mwn3d_phone: So, in short, I don't think anyone knows what Spring is supposed to solve. I guess it's like C++'s boost library.
20:03 mwn3d_phone I saw in java 7 that they want something like this: "Map<Integer, List<String>> map = new HashMap<Integer, List<String>>();" look like this: "Map<Integer, List<String>> map = new HashMap<>();"
20:04 mwn3d_phone Lol ok then I don't feel so bad not knowing that about spring
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20:06 sorear huh, going in the opposite direction from C#
20:06 sorear (in C# 3.0 you can say var map = new Dictionary<int, List<string>>();
20:06 sorear )
20:06 mwn3d_phone one nice thing about the java compiler and generics is that you don't need spaces when your generic types end in ">>" like you would in C++
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20:07 mwn3d_phone There is a >> operator but it doesn't get confused when its in generics
20:07 shortcircuit mwn3d_phone: You shouldn't need them in C++, either. Not according to spec, anyway.
20:07 mwn3d_phone When I learned about templates I needed spaces there
20:07 shortcircuit Some compilers trip over it, but I don't think, e.g. Microsoft's C compiler has since VS2003.
20:08 mwn3d_phone I think we were using GCC
20:08 mwn3d_phone Er gnu something or other
20:08 mwn3d_phone All our CS classes were on unix machines
20:08 shortcircuit ISTR running into that problem in g++ about three years ago, when I was trying to write the C++ version of RCBF.
20:09 shortcircuit It's a common compiler bug.
20:09 mwn3d_phone I'll blame the compiler instead of the language
20:09 shortcircuit I've got a lot of work-related code that has >>, but it's all been compiled with Microsoft's compiler.
20:09 mwn3d_phone I bet gcj has problems with it then
20:10 shortcircuit I should correct an earlier statement: Some compilers trip over it, but I don't think, e.g. Microsoft's C++ compiler has since VS2003.
20:10 sorear I suspect this is a recent spec change
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23:18 manveru aloha
23:18 sorear hi
23:18 manveru is there any way to get syntax highlighting for nimrod?
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23:41 mwn3d_phone manveru: you'll need to talk to BenBE about that
23:41 mwn3d_phone He's our resident geshi guy
23:41 mwn3d_phone (Geshi is our syntax highlighter plugin)
23:42 mwn3d_phone shortcircuit: is there an autogeshi link on the add a language page? Is that used anymore?
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