Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2011-09-21

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 mwn3d_phone joined #rosettacode
00:07 mwn3d_phone "Rosetta code account"? If that's the anon guy from before I'm gonna need a bigger eyeroll button.
00:15 crc joined #rosettacode
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00:29 ledrug Just a guess, wait and see.
00:30 ledrug Probably from IP 25.85.*
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05:03 Topic for #rosettacode is now Rosetta Code: Coding in (∞ - 1) languages ; http://irclog.perlgeek.de/rosettacode/today ; Pop a tab and stick around!
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11:50 mikemol http://rosettacode.org/mw/index.php?title=User_talk%3A24.85.131.247&action=historysubmit&diff=121074&oldid=121012
11:50 mikemol And he's gone. Which is probably a good thing.
11:51 mikemol Communication really requires an endpoint address, even if it's just "anonymous user #43241" in a flat discussion, "Anonymous Coward" in properly threaded environment (which MW isn't).
11:54 mikemol Or, rather, conversation does. To think that it doesn't makes the assumption that one's already said everything important to understand the whole of the issue, and that no response is necessary.
11:55 mikemol 04:20 <+mwn3d_phone> Its unlogged right now too
11:55 mikemol ^^ not entirely. :)
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14:56 Coderjoe mikemol: yeah, many of us may have logs... but apparently freenode has a policy about public logging
14:56 mikemol Coderjoe: Unless it's changed, it needs to be made clear that there's logs.
14:56 mikemol Which is why http://irclog.perlgeek.de/rosettacode/today is in /topic
14:56 fedaykin "IRC log for #rosettacode, 2011-09-21"
14:59 Coderjoe baha
14:59 Coderjoe http://pastebin.com/t5RPg8uU
14:59 fedaykin "forever alone - Pastebin.com"
14:59 Coderjoe background info: #foreveralone on that network was the coordination channel for archive team's friendster archiving effort
15:03 mikemol Actually, it doesn't look like Freenode has a policy on public logging. The closest thing they have are some guidelines[1], and those guidelines aren't binding. Nevertheless, they are still good advice.
15:03 mikemol [1] http://freenode.net/channel_guidelines.shtml
15:03 fedaykin "freenode philosophy: channel guidelines"
15:15 mikemol Hm.
15:16 mikemol I could probably simply make edits to anything but the Main namespace require someone to be logged in. That'd allow for drive-by fixes, but keep conversation channels more understandable.
15:39 mikemol mwn3d_phone: http://ibis.pugetsound.edu/cs161/F11/ProgrammingAssignments/PA3/PA3F11.html
15:39 fedaykin "CSCI 161 Introduction to Computer Science - Programming Assignment 3" http://rldn.net/6IfO
15:39 mikemol Cites RC as a reference.
15:40 mikemol I think the discussion of allowed code use is probably correct, given that it's a small portion of the 'work'. I don't know for certain, though.
15:43 Hypftier Well, I think it's more just making sure that students are not punished in grading for using RC's code. Whether citing the source is then correct use of the GFDL is probably a completely different problem.
15:44 * mikemol is reminded again that he doesn't like GFDL.
15:47 * Hypftier has developed a dislike against any G* license. It makes working with such-licensed things a bit painful outside of GNU-only land. Recently wondered whether using a jQuery library that was licensed under GPL on a web site would force the site's code to be GPL too (that's mostly due to the unclear language of usage, linking and derived work in the GPL text).
15:47 Hypftier The author of said library didn't have a clue either; and that's probably the worst part of it. But at least I can then hope he won't sue me for using it without making my site GPL, too. Still, nasty.
15:51 mikemol Outside of existing GPL codebases, I don't very much like *GPLv3. LGPLv2 isn't too scary. Anything unpaid, ground-up new, I usually write as CC-By.
15:51 Coderjoe I think GPL code on a website via interfaces like php include/include_once/require/require_once do count as linking and thus cause the code to need to follow the rules of GPL. IMO, using a clear dividing point like executing a separate process or making an http request or such does not count as linking
15:52 Hypftier With CC I already wondered how well it applies to source code. My photos are usually (unless they depict someone I didn't get around asking permission) CC-By (sometimes NC too, when necessary), but never tried that for source code :)
15:52 Coderjoe and I also think that just being a user of a website does not make the GPLv2 require the site to disclose source to a user
15:53 mikemol Right; that's what the Affero GPL was about, IIRC.
15:53 opticron it's the difference between sofware as a service and software you're providing to someone
15:53 mikemol I have to question the significant difference between linking, RPC calls and HTTP-driven things like XMLRPC, though.
15:54 mikemol They seem to me to be transformations on the same fundamental principle.
15:54 Coderjoe when I write code and make the decision to license it under GPL/LGPL, I currently specify that the "Or at your option, any later version" of v2 is not in effect, and that only v2 applies
15:54 opticron if someone can run their own copy of it independent of yours, you need to release the code GPL
15:54 opticron I think GPLv3 addresses taht
15:55 mikemol Pretty sure that "or at your option, any later version" is only part of the FSF's default boilerplate.
15:55 Coderjoe it is part of the top of the GPL license itself
15:55 Coderjoe not as the example boilerplate
15:56 mikemol See section 9 of http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-2.0.html
15:56 fedaykin "GNU General Public License v2.0 - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)"
15:56 mikemol Their walkthrough of how to apply invokes that section implicitly.
15:57 Coderjoe hmm
15:57 Coderjoe I guess my memory was flawed
15:57 Coderjoe but anyway, I make sure to specify v2 only, rather than allow the default of or any later version
15:58 mikemol I gotta get back to work. :-|
16:13 mwn3d_phone mikemol: some RIT professors had a similar policy for using code from the internet. There was also probably a touchy-feely requirement that you can't copy the main parts of the assignment from the internet.
16:14 mwn3d_phone I didn't worry too much about it (I could translate the algorithms myself) at first. I only worried about when younger kids found my old projects on my website.
16:15 mwn3d_phone I was using them to show off as supplemental information to my resume
16:16 mwn3d_phone but they've been taken down now. At least the ones that have been reused by later classes.
17:26 Coderjoe it is sad that you have to take stuff down because of dishonest students
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18:08 mwn3d_phone My professor called them "resourceful" but a rose by any other name...
19:11 Coderjoe sure, they might be resourceful, but an honest student would realize the point of the homework in a programming class is to actually learn. finding existing code that does what is needed and using that defeats that purpose
19:13 opticron ehhh, that depends on the student
19:13 opticron but generally yes
19:14 Hypftier At least here the students who didn't understand that were gone after six terms or so :)
19:21 mwn3d_phone joined #rosettacode
19:22 mikemol I expect that's why the instructor in this case pointed the students at a snippet which would handle a subcomponent of the larger problem
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