Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2011-10-24

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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10:12 eMBee ok, at least it's not a new problem, that's good
10:12 eMBee ooops
10:20 eMBee yes, the date is close, report from 14th, freshmeat release date is 16th
10:20 eMBee ooops
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18:31 GlitchMr :)
18:31 GlitchMr Nice, voice :)
18:31 mikemol Defaults to +v.
18:32 mikemol I tend to default people who are registered with NickServ to +o.
18:33 GlitchMr -NickServ- You are already logged in as GlitchMr.
18:33 GlitchMr :P
18:33 GlitchMr Whatever
18:33 GlitchMr I was surprised to see I've got voice
18:33 mikemol GlitchMr: Depends on me seeing interaction, first. :)
18:33 GlitchMr I'm there first time...
18:34 mikemol I picked up the habit in #anime; if someone interacts, I can get some idea of how much I trust them. :)
18:34 GlitchMr :)
18:45 GlitchMr C:\Users\Konrad\Desktop>perl
18:45 GlitchMr use Config;
18:45 GlitchMr print "int size: $Config{intsize}, byte order: $Config{byteorder}\n";
18:45 GlitchMr ^D
18:45 GlitchMr int size: 4, byte order: 12345678
18:45 GlitchMr http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Host_introspection#Perl
18:45 fedaykin "Host introspection - Rosetta Code" http://rldn.net/FJCc
18:46 GlitchMr Is there something wrong with my machine?
18:46 slavik1 GlitchMr: why do you think so?
18:47 GlitchMr Because it displays int size: 4...
18:47 mikemol The three examples on the wiki page under don't agree with his output.
18:47 GlitchMr And I'm sure I've 64-bit machine...
18:47 slavik1 they are examples, not all possible situations though
18:47 GlitchMr Usage: C:\Perl64\bin\perl.exe [switches] [--] [programfile] [arguments]
18:47 GlitchMr ... yeah... I even have 64-bit Perl...
18:48 mikemol I don't know how Perl manages int on different architectures. in C, an int on a 64-bit system will tend to be 32-bits.
18:48 slavik1 slava@dogbert:~$ perl
18:48 slavik1 use Config;
18:48 slavik1 print "int size: $Config{intsize}, byte order: $Config{byteorder}\n";
18:48 slavik1 int size: 4, byte order: 12345678
18:48 slavik1 slava@dogbert:~$
18:48 slavik1 oops
18:48 slavik1 ubuntu here
18:48 mikemol heh
18:48 GlitchMr I love CTRL+D trick :).
18:49 mikemol On my vps node: int size: 4, byte order: 12345678
18:49 mikemol Linux rosettacode.org 2.6.26-2-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Mon Jun 13 18:44:16 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux
18:49 fedaykin "Rosetta Code - Rosetta Code"
18:50 mikemol On my system at home: int size: 4, byte order: 12345678
18:50 mikemol uname -a: Linux serenity 3.0.6-gentoo #3 SMP PREEMPT Fri Oct 21 22:32:53 EDT 2011 x86_64 AMD Phenom(tm) 9650 Quad-Core Processor AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
18:51 slavik1 * examples are not exhaustive
18:51 slavik1 need a disclaimer in there
18:51 GlitchMr http://glitchmr.pl/private/byte.pl
18:51 GlitchMr use CGI ':standard';
18:51 GlitchMr use Config;
18:51 GlitchMr print header, "int size: $Config{intsize}, byte order: $Config{byteorder}\n";
18:51 GlitchMr ...
18:51 GlitchMr byte order: 1234
18:51 GlitchMr Looks like my site is hosted on 32-bit machine...
18:52 mikemol http://codepad.org/xyJyyBo7
18:52 fedaykin "Perl code - 2 lines - codepad"
18:52 GlitchMr =>Mon 24 20:43<= glitchmr(at)hypeshell~> perl
18:52 GlitchMr use Config;
18:52 GlitchMr print "int size: $Config{intsize}, byte order: $Config{byteorder}\n";
18:52 GlitchMr int size: 4, byte order: 12345678
18:52 mikemol Too much paste. >>
18:52 GlitchMr :P
18:53 mikemol GlitchMr: This would be a good thing to bring up in the talk page. It'll probably wind up with a good explanation being added.
18:56 GlitchMr I haven't really seen big-endian PC through
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18:56 GlitchMr "Well-known processors that use the big-endian format include Motorola 6800 and 68k, Xilinx Microblaze, IBM POWER, and System/360 and its successors such as System/370, ESA/390, and z/Architecture. The PDP-10 also used big-endian addressing for byte-oriented instructions. SPARC historically used big-endian until version 9, which is bi-endian just like the ARM architecture, and the PowerPC and Power Architecture descendants of IBM POWE
18:56 GlitchMr R are also bi-endian (see below)."
18:56 GlitchMr ... ok...
18:57 GlitchMr Practically every PC is low-endian...
18:57 GlitchMr Makes sense...
18:59 GlitchMr I would insert PHP example there, but I don't think that PHP can get endianness of the machine.
18:59 GlitchMr It can get INT size through
18:59 GlitchMr though*
18:59 mikemol I've never heard of a big-endian PC-compatible machine.
19:00 GlitchMr Any popular architecture which still exists and uses big-endian...
19:00 GlitchMr I cannot think of any...
19:00 mikemol ARM, I think.
19:00 GlitchMr ARM
19:00 GlitchMr Yeah
19:00 GlitchMr I through it's low-endian
19:00 GlitchMr But, yeah, it's pretty popular
19:01 mikemol POWER is pretty common, too, just not in desktop computers.
19:01 GlitchMr PowerPC
19:01 mikemol You'll find it in the X-Box 360 and in the PS3. (Though the PS3 tacks on some SPUs)
19:01 GlitchMr ?
19:01 GlitchMr Yeah
19:02 mikemol PowerPC, as I understand it, is a crippled or slightly-downgraded form of POWER.
19:02 GlitchMr I think I will insert PHP example, but it could only do one part of it
19:02 mikemol The System/360 descendents are still pretty active, too, in big iron.
19:04 mikemol Sure you can get the endianness.
19:04 mikemol http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.pack.php
19:04 fedaykin "PHP: pack - Manual"
19:04 mikemol See i and I.
19:05 GlitchMr signed short (always 16 bit, machine byte order)
19:05 GlitchMr ok :)
19:06 mikemol Note that that kind of thing will be dependent on the C compiler used to build PHP.
19:06 mikemol I suspect a similar caveat applies to the Perl results you were seeing earlier.
19:06 GlitchMr ok, whatever
19:06 GlitchMr ...
19:07 GlitchMr I can see {{omit from|JavaScript}}...
19:07 GlitchMr I wonder if it would be possible on Node.js...
19:20 GlitchMr http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Deepcopy#PHP
19:20 fedaykin "Deepcopy - Rosetta Code"
19:20 GlitchMr I'm surprised on how PHP didn't had example before.
19:20 GlitchMr Cloning in PHP is very easy... I'm surprised that it even contains keyword to do it.
19:21 mikemol GlitchMr: I've tried reaching out to PHP folks before, but they weren't interested. I suspect PHP developers are mostly happy with the resources and awareness they have.
19:21 GlitchMr Makes sense...
19:21 mikemol That said, if you want to get this list pared down, that'd be pretty awesome. :) http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Reports:Tasks_not_implemented_in_PHP
19:21 GlitchMr PHP is language where nearly everything requires parentheses... I'm so surprised that it doesn't require there...
19:21 fedaykin "Reports:Tasks not implemented in PHP - Rosetta Code" http://rldn.net/1J3
19:23 GlitchMr http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hello_world/Newline_omission
19:23 fedaykin "Hello world/Newline omission - Rosetta Code" http://rldn.net/Yf
19:23 GlitchMr I don't know, should I insert omit template or just copy "Hello world" example?
19:23 GlitchMr Or add newline to that "Hello world" example...
19:23 GlitchMr I don't know
19:23 * mikemol is looking
19:24 mikemol Probably omit.
19:24 mikemol Just looking at how other languages did it.
19:24 mikemol Though if there's a difference between PHP's echo and print along those lines, that'd be the place to note it.
19:25 GlitchMr print returns value
19:25 GlitchMr echo cannot be used in content other that command itself
19:25 GlitchMr echo echo '2'; // invalid
19:25 GlitchMr print print '2'; // valid, will print 2 double
19:26 GlitchMr echo uses "," and doesn't require parentheses... so yeah...
19:26 GlitchMr function(echo '2', '2'); // what this should do?
19:26 GlitchMr PHP makes syntax error
19:26 GlitchMr print doesn't accept commas, so it can be used as argument
19:26 GlitchMr But really, I haven't seen anybody using "print" this way
19:40 GlitchMr http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hello_world/Web_server
19:40 fedaykin "Hello world/Web server - Rosetta Code" http://rldn.net/DY4
19:40 GlitchMr ok, I'm now on stage where my firewall says about new program
19:40 * mikemol is focusing on work
19:40 GlitchMr And trying to connect causes reaction from my program
19:41 GlitchMr ... now only to send answer and close connection...
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20:03 GlitchMr http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hello_world/Web_server#PHP
20:03 GlitchMr There
20:03 fedaykin "Hello world/Web server - Rosetta Code" http://rldn.net/DY4
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23:51 mwn3d_phone Must have missed it in the news today...RIP john mccarthy
23:59 mbishop indeed

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