Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2011-11-21

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Time Nick Message
00:26 mischi joined #rosettacode
02:02 eMBee ErikSiers: even more i love that when i work on fixing a problem, near the end i discover that to fix this problem, i have to fix another problem first, and then have that repeat a few times...
02:04 ErikSiers sounds about right
02:25 ErikSiers i don't know what the deal is, but wine has been compiling for over 2 hours now. i din't remember it taking this long before... maybe it's because i'm working from sources checked out from git, not a packaged bundle
02:29 r4m joined #rosettacode
03:42 ErikSiers argh. even worse, my "fix" didn't fix anything
03:52 ErikSiers i'm start a betting pool on the likelihood of certain given usernames to be spammers. anyone else want in?
03:57 eMBee lol
04:01 ErikSiers i had "Daryl82Heyward" pegged as a spammer last night. i would've caught it earlier but i was busy with my wine problem and some rc stuff
04:04 ErikSiers looking at the user creation log, i bet it was the same person as "Craig82Straub"
04:13 mwn3d_phone Some of them get created and never do anything
04:14 mwn3d_phone But I have blocked other "firstname##lastname" users before they did anything (just for a few weeks) noting that they have suspicious names
04:14 mwn3d_phone If you look through the user list I'm sure there are tons just lying around
04:15 ErikSiers yeah, i mentioned something along those lines to short circuit a few weeks ago
04:15 ErikSiers [[User talk:Short Circuit#Spam users]]
04:15 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Use​r_talk:Short_Circuit#Spam_users
04:18 mwn3d_phone I've heard of other sites cutting down on automated spam users just by scrambling the fields on the user creation page
04:22 ErikSiers what, the order they're displayed in?
04:48 ErikSiers on the sidebar on the left, under "browse wiki", is there anywhere to implement a "random task" link? different from "random page", i'm thinking of one that'll randomly select only those pages that have the "task" tag
04:48 ErikSiers ...and the "draft" tag
04:49 ErikSiers er... "draft task" tag
05:25 mwn3d_phone ErikSiers: yes the order they're displayed in, and there is probably a way to do the implement random task link with SMW trickery
05:27 ErikSiers i was thinking about something along the lines of whatever it took to add such to the existing "Tasks" subsection there
05:27 ErikSiers ...not anything that i would think of as "trickery" ;-)
05:29 ErikSiers i'll look into doing it myself at some unspecified point in the future. i've got mw downloaded here, and a friend who may or may not be willing to help me get it installed locally
05:29 ErikSiers if i can get something appropriate working, i'll pass it on to short circuit
05:29 mwn3d_phone Well there's a page called [[MediaWiki:Sidebar]] I think (something like that) which you edit just like any other page
05:29 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Sidebar
05:30 mwn3d_phone All it is is a list of links
05:30 mwn3d_phone So if you can get SMW to spit out a link to a random task then you just add it there
05:30 ErikSiers ah...
05:31 mwn3d_phone Not sure if it has anything that's intended to do that but you might be able to trick it into it
05:31 ErikSiers ok, so adding it to the sidebar is trivial; just need to implement an appropriate search function
05:31 mwn3d_phone Right
05:31 mwn3d_phone But that page is probably locked to editing except for a few users
05:32 ErikSiers i've got mw 1.17 extracted to my desktop; i'll poke around in there and find the search functions; see if they can be easily customized
05:32 ErikSiers yeah, i can't edit the sidebar, but that's fine
05:32 mwn3d_phone So you'll still have to tell mikemol about it. The only problem he might have with it is that it might crowd the sidebar.
05:32 mwn3d_phone I don't think mediawiki alone has anything like it
05:33 mwn3d_phone We have semantic mediawiki (SMW) installed as well
05:33 ErikSiers i dunno. maybe plug a search into the function that aggregates pages tagged with {{task}} into the appropriate report, maybe
05:34 ErikSiers actually, it looks like *that* is just done by the usual category aggregator
05:35 mwn3d_phone {{Task}} just adds pages to a regular mediawiki category
05:35 ErikSiers yeah, that's what i saw
05:35 mwn3d_phone Oh..."category aggregator" sounded like additional functionality
05:36 mwn3d_phone Categories are just standard MW
05:36 mwn3d_phone Templates as well
05:36 ErikSiers my whole point of wanting this is because i sometimes just sit and pound the "random page" link, looking for a task that i can solve but hasn't been solved in a lang i know
05:36 ErikSiers and it would be convenient to not have to skip the encyclopedia, implementation, etc. pages; just have them not shown at all
05:37 ErikSiers maybe i'll put this up as a task :-)
05:37 mwn3d_phone Yeah I think its a good idea...just have to figure out how to get the link to work right
05:37 ErikSiers hm... call it "Random RC task"?
05:38 ErikSiers i'll put it on the "tasks wanted" page, see if anyone wants to take a stab at doing it
05:39 mwn3d_phone Heh I don't think it'll require an actual programming language
05:40 ErikSiers i'll put the request up anyway, see what happens :-)
05:43 ErikSiers worst that can happen is nothing, and that's acceptable
05:48 ErikSiers ok, entry is up: [[Rosetta Code:Village Pump/Suggest a programming task#Unsorted]]
05:48 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code:Vill​age_Pump/Suggest_a_programming_task#Unsorted
06:11 ErikSiers maybe i can just use an mw api call
06:11 ErikSiers http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Random
06:11 fedaykin "API:Random - MediaWiki"
06:15 mwn3d_phone It doesn't look like you can limit that to a particular category
06:16 ErikSiers i'm looking now
06:17 ErikSiers there's a certain page called ApiQueryCategories.php; i'm seeing if that'll let me limit things
06:19 ErikSiers http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Categorymembers
06:19 fedaykin "API:Categorymembers - MediaWiki"
06:19 ErikSiers that looks promising
06:21 ErikSiers but... looks like Categorymembers and Random are mutually exclusive
06:29 mwn3d_phone Try messing around with [[Special:Ask]]. If you can get things working click the "show embed code" link to see what you need to paste into a page where you want the link.
06:29 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Special:Ask
06:29 mwn3d_phone And this page can help with SMW questions: http://semantic-mediawiki.o​rg/wiki/Help:Inline_queries
06:30 fedaykin "Help:Inline queries - semantic-mediawiki.org" http://rldn.net/5I3
06:56 ErikSiers veeeeeeeeeeery interesting
06:57 ErikSiers [[Sandbox#Randomizer]]
06:57 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sandbox#Randomizer
06:58 ErikSiers a step in the right direction
07:00 ErikSiers now if i could turn that into an automagic redirect somehow, i'd be happy
07:00 ErikSiers more poking and prodding necessary
07:26 ErikSiers damn. thought i had it for a sec. tried adding #REDIRECT in front of {{#ask}}
07:26 ErikSiers i'm so close i can taste it, if i can just get it figured out
08:17 ErikSiers well, i'm giving up for tonight. i've made some progress; see [[Sandbox#Randomizer]] and [[Sandbox/Randomizer]]
08:17 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sandbox#Randomizer  http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sandbox/Randomizer
08:17 ErikSiers the problems i'm having are
08:18 ErikSiers 1) getting redirect to accept {{something}} as its argument
08:18 ErikSiers 2) getting the {{#ask}} results without the "further results" link
08:19 ErikSiers 3) related to 1, getting the {{#ask}} results in plain text
08:19 ErikSiers i created [[Template:Echo]] as an attempt to work around 1 and 3, but no good
08:19 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Template:Echo
08:20 ErikSiers so, having said that, i hope someone else can make this work
08:20 ErikSiers good night all
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12:46 mwn3d_phone1 joined #rosettacode
14:17 dagnyscott joined #rosettacode
16:27 mikemol Sidebar decrowded.
16:28 mikemol The "Add a X" and "suggest a X" links should be put in the descriptive areas of [[Category:Programming Languages]] and [[Category:Programming Tasks]]
16:28 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/C​ategory:Programming_Languages  http://rosettacode.org/wiki​/Category:Programming_Tasks
16:30 eMBee might there be room somewhere for a link to the draft tasks? or do you want that to remain hidden for only the regulars who know where to find it?
16:31 mikemol There's a link on the front page for it, where it says "79 draft tasks"
16:31 eMBee oh,there...
16:31 eMBee didn't occur to me to log there :-)
16:33 eMBee wow, almost as many tasks as languages... hmm, is there a total number of solutions?
16:33 mikemol Not easily retrievable, but...yes.
16:33 mikemol sec
16:33 mikemol http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Special:Properties
16:33 fedaykin "Properties - Rosetta Code"
16:33 mikemol Look for "Implementated in language"
16:34 mikemol AFAIK, there's no programmatic way to retrieve that from within, e.g. a template.
16:35 eMBee so 23483 solutions...
16:35 mikemol Server's going to be a bit slow for a while; I murdered all the caching by modifying LocalSettings.php
16:36 * mikemol goes back to work
16:37 * eMBee is going to slow down even more, in the horizontal...
17:23 r4m joined #rosettacode
17:24 mwn3d_phone eMBee: that count in the properties page counts draft task solutions too
17:24 mwn3d_phone And it doesn't count multiple solutions for the same language
17:56 mwn3d_phone mikemol: interesting trick that ErikSiers and I have come up with in [[Sandbox/Randomizer]]. Not quite as good as the regular random page link but its a start.
17:56 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Sandbox/Randomizer
17:57 * mikemol nods
17:57 mikemol I saw that in progress.
17:57 mwn3d_phone The thing is that it only links to a new random task whenever SMW is refreshed
17:58 mikemol I'd love to have something like that which would randomly transclude the front-page link list templates; I don't want more than three widgets displayed at a time, but there are at least a couple other widgets I'd love to add.
17:58 mikemol Have a random selector for those front-page widgets would allow us to have several, but only display three at a time.
17:58 mwn3d_phone There may be some options for the "format" attribute in #ask
17:59 mikemol mwn3d_phone: You mean the browser is force-refreshed, or do you mean that the semantic database has to be rebuilt?
17:59 mikemol mwn3d_phone: Yeah, it supports transclusion.
18:00 mwn3d_phone 1: I guess both? Whatever happens when you hit the "refresh" link or whatever other times queries are refreshed. 2: I see that..."embedded". I'll see if I can cook somethink up in the sandbox.
18:00 mikemol Anyway, cached data will last for up to 15 minutes. It'll display a new random set roughly every 15 minutes. And probably a different random set to most clients, because differing supported-encoding headers in the initial get requests punch past squid's caching.
18:01 mikemol I'd give it an hour or so; chances are that a) you need squid's cache to expire, and b) some updates need to percolate through SMW's process queue.
18:02 mikemol Also, I'm not sure how the performance of the 'random' sort will go; most *effective* SQL-backed randomizations are very, very expensive and slow.
18:03 mwn3d_phone That's probably good enough as long as users don't expect it to act like Special:Random
18:03 mwn3d_phone That's probably a question for the SMW people
18:03 mikemol It probably will, as long as you click it again from a different page.
18:04 mwn3d_phone Not sure if they do it in the DB or in the other code
18:13 mwn3d_phone mikemol: if you don't mind I'm going to categorize the frontpage widgets (probably in "category:frontpage widgets")
18:13 mikemol Sure
18:29 mwn3d_phone Ugh...http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/H​elp_talk:Embedded_format#Limitation
18:29 mwn3d_phone Looks like it can't bring in SMW queries from the pages it embeds
18:45 mikemol Yeah, we ran into that when trying to build semantically-built pages.
18:46 mikemol Surprised they only discovered that three days ago.
18:46 mikemol I thought we talked with them about it a couple years ago.
19:57 mikemol mwn3d_phone: Make sure that you put those categorizations inside "noinclude" tags.
19:57 mwn3d_phone I thought I did. Did I miss one?
19:57 mikemol Dunno. Didn't look. Just occurred to me.
19:58 mwn3d_phone No I got all of them
21:47 ErikSiers joined #rosettacode
21:55 ErikSiers re: {{#ask}} refreshing, it DOES refresh every time you hit the "preview" button on the edit screen
21:57 ErikSiers i didn't realize it wasn't refreshing on normal views until after i'd saved it (and written my short 'to-do' list earlier)
21:59 ErikSiers hey, look, #rosettacode is famous:  http://www.qdb.us/304415
21:59 fedaykin <@shortcircuit> Let's see. There's mee, mwn3d_phone, mikecb. Anyone else in here?
21:59 fedaykin <@shortcircuit> *me
21:59 fedaykin < waldwolf> not me
21:59 fedaykin < Coderjoe> I'm Spartacus
21:59 fedaykin < mikecb> Did he say the island of lesbos?
21:59 fedaykin -!- shortcircuit changed the topic of #rosettacode to: Rostta Code: Coding in ((inf - 1) langauges. Pop a tab and stick around. This channel is logged, and occasionally published.
22:00 ErikSiers O_O
22:00 ErikSiers ...that was unexpected
22:10 opticron :)
22:11 opticron I'm surprised they havent' changed their page format since I wrote that
22:14 ErikSiers bash, change their format? are you serious? ;-)
22:15 opticron qdb, but yes I know
22:15 ErikSiers same people, i believe
22:15 opticron odd that they would have two *nearly* identical sites
22:15 opticron they have different sets of quotes in them as well
22:19 ErikSiers yep
22:19 ErikSiers but no respect for anyone in either
22:28 Coderjoe iirc, one is a fork of the other
22:29 ErikSiers they forked a lack of respect? :-)
22:43 mischi joined #rosettacode
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