| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:37 |
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deltree_ joined #rosettacode |
| 01:46 |
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| 01:59 |
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| 05:29 |
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beta0x64 joined #rosettacode |
| 05:29 |
|
beta0x64 |
Hello, anyone here? |
| 05:31 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Usually but we may not be quick to respond depending on our timezones. What's up? |
| 05:32 |
|
sorear |
Please state your issue and we'll return your call as soon as possible. *BEEP* |
| 05:33 |
|
beta0x64 |
Hi there |
| 05:33 |
|
beta0x64 |
I found an error in someone's code on the website |
| 05:34 |
|
beta0x64 |
Basically, I rewrote the whole thing, making it OOP and completely solved. I needed to use a JAR, Apache Commons, to be exact. |
| 05:34 |
|
beta0x64 |
Did I do this right? I couldn't find any rules or anything. http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Re[…]echelon_form#Java |
| 05:34 |
|
fedaykin |
"Reduced row echelon form - Rosetta Code" http://rldn.net/7ewj |
| 05:34 |
|
sorear |
We're just the moderators, we don't speak most of the languages or understand most of the problems |
| 05:34 |
|
beta0x64 |
That's cool, I understand |
| 05:34 |
|
beta0x64 |
there's far too many to know |
| 05:35 |
|
beta0x64 |
but I know I know Java and I know this solution works with the example and more |
| 05:36 |
|
sorear |
just skimmed your solution ... I have only two comments |
| 05:36 |
|
beta0x64 |
It's long, it's Java |
| 05:36 |
|
beta0x64 |
I know |
| 05:36 |
|
sorear |
1. it's not (I don't think it is) normal to sign your name on solutions |
| 05:36 |
|
beta0x64 |
OK, I'll remove that then |
| 05:36 |
|
sorear |
2. Why are you using Fraction instead of language-provided doubles? |
| 05:37 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
beta0x64: if someone's code is wrong then you can add "{{incorrect}}" to the top or fix it yourself. If you make a new solution I think it'd be best to add it in addition to the old one marking the old one incorrect if it does the task wrong. |
| 05:37 |
|
beta0x64 |
Because of a rounding error involving 1/3, 2/3 etc. |
| 05:37 |
|
beta0x64 |
Basically, where 3 should have been used, 2.99999999997 was used |
| 05:38 |
|
sorear |
Even if you wouldn't do it in practice, if it makes the code easier to read it might be worth doing |
| 05:38 |
|
sorear |
I dunno |
| 05:38 |
|
beta0x64 |
sorear: if I wouldn't do what ? |
| 05:38 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
If the old example still does things basically right but you take another approach then add yours in addition to the old one and try to explain the difference |
| 05:38 |
|
beta0x64 |
mwn3d_phone, but the second example in my main() function does NOT work in the original |
| 05:39 |
|
beta0x64 |
it is wrong. I tested it on my Ti-83+ Silver and several online matrix RREF calculators |
| 05:40 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
For rounding errors like that I think it would be ok to just say that the rounding errors might occur in certain situations but the code was done to be more readable |
| 05:40 |
|
beta0x64 |
Well, you simply get a wrong answer |
| 05:40 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
I think people understand that there are problems with double math in general |
| 05:40 |
|
beta0x64 |
I was planning on using their code for a Chemical Equation Balancer |
| 05:40 |
|
beta0x64 |
However, I got a completely wrong answer based on their code |
| 05:41 |
|
beta0x64 |
So, now I have solved it and then some. |
| 05:41 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Is 2.999999999997 "completely wrong" to you when the answer is 3? |
| 05:41 |
|
beta0x64 |
No, see |
| 05:41 |
|
beta0x64 |
2.999999999997 was the complement to a number |
| 05:41 |
|
beta0x64 |
that threw off the whole matrix |
| 05:42 |
|
beta0x64 |
where the final row should all be zeroes, you get straight 1's |
| 05:42 |
|
beta0x64 |
and you don't have any free variables |
| 05:43 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Oh |
| 05:43 |
|
beta0x64 |
Maybe I'm not explaining correctly. To RREF a matrix, you have to take each number above and below a pivot and multiply it by another row and a number to make it a complement (so the numbers above and below are 0) |
| 05:43 |
|
beta0x64 |
well the complement they ended up with would need to be 1/3 |
| 05:43 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Well if it gave super wrong answers like that then yeah get rid of it |
| 05:43 |
|
beta0x64 |
well |
| 05:43 |
|
beta0x64 |
some number + my pivot * some complement |
| 05:43 |
|
beta0x64 |
so x + 1 * 1/x |
| 05:43 |
|
beta0x64 |
where x is 3 |
| 05:43 |
|
beta0x64 |
and it eventually rounds out to 2.999999 whatever |
| 05:44 |
|
beta0x64 |
throwing off the whole answer |
| 05:44 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Heh yeah I get the propagation |
| 05:44 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
I just wanted to know how bad it was in the final answer |
| 05:44 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
And it sounds like its bad |
| 05:44 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
So its ok to replace it |
| 05:44 |
|
beta0x64 |
it's just not included in the sample to test |
| 05:44 |
|
beta0x64 |
plus now it is more readable in my opinion |
| 05:45 |
|
beta0x64 |
before it was just one big function in one big class called RREF() |
| 05:45 |
|
beta0x64 |
mind you, this was a python translation. but I am all about Java |
| 05:45 |
|
beta0x64 |
so I fixed it |
| 05:45 |
|
beta0x64 |
I would have liked to message the maintainer of the code to tell him "hey guy you had a big woops" |
| 05:46 |
|
beta0x64 |
that's why I add my email |
| 05:46 |
|
sorear |
It's... a wiki. |
| 05:46 |
|
sorear |
You're supposed to just fix stuff when you see it. |
| 05:46 |
|
beta0x64 |
sorear, I did |
| 05:47 |
|
sorear |
You did the right thing |
| 05:47 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
There's no real "maintainer" for anything except the actual website |
| 05:47 |
|
beta0x64 |
well if you find something wrong with it |
| 05:47 |
|
beta0x64 |
you can email me |
| 05:47 |
|
beta0x64 |
and I will know what my code does, and I will fix it for you |
| 05:47 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Did you sign up for an account? |
| 05:47 |
|
beta0x64 |
Yes |
| 05:47 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Ok |
| 05:47 |
|
sorear |
You say that *now* |
| 05:48 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
People will put things on your talk page |
| 05:48 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
If they have problems |
| 05:48 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
You'll get an email when that happens |
| 05:48 |
|
sorear |
When I haven't touched a piece of code for four years, I tend to not want any more obligations on it |
| 05:48 |
|
beta0x64 |
sorear, well I was hoping to use this in my own programs dealing with the oodles and oodles of applications of matrices |
| 05:48 |
|
beta0x64 |
that way I can say to my potential employers one day, I reinvented the wheel but at least it was round and turned correctly this time. Also, spinners. |
| 05:50 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Just be aware of the implied licenses on RC |
| 05:50 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
I don't know a damn thing about them but people seem to be really concerned about them |
| 05:50 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
And for some reason there was a limited window of opportunity to change them before |
| 05:51 |
|
beta0x64 |
Well, maybe I don't want to fix it then |
| 05:53 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
I don't think the licenses restrict changes |
| 05:53 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Just uses |
| 05:53 |
|
beta0x64 |
I simply want credit for the work that I did |
| 05:53 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
You have it |
| 05:53 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Its in the history of the page |
| 05:53 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
And in your user contributions list |
| 05:53 |
|
beta0x64 |
I don't want money, I want people to re-use it if they have a use for it |
| 05:53 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Right |
| 05:53 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
That's exactly what you have now |
| 05:54 |
|
beta0x64 |
well then, I'll keep it this way |
| 05:54 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
There's a "history" tab at the top of the page |
| 05:54 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
That shows who made edits to the page, at what time, and gives diff options |
| 05:55 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Then there's a "my contributions" link on top of the page when you sign in |
| 05:55 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
That shows all of your edits |
| 05:55 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Just like wikipedia |
| 05:56 |
|
beta0x64 |
alright, well that's fine |
| 05:57 |
|
beta0x64 |
I'm going to post it on my website probably then I'll do some more work with the chemical question thing |
| 05:57 |
|
beta0x64 |
equation* |
| 05:57 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
And if you want to suggest extra test cases for that task you can try adding a section to the talk page for the task |
| 05:57 |
|
beta0x64 |
I guess I should |
| 05:57 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
To do that just click the little plus sign at the top of the talk page there |
| 05:57 |
|
beta0x64 |
I just wanted to fix that particular code. Maybe all the other code works. Maybe it doesn't, but it's not skin off my back |
| 06:00 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
It might help the overall quality of the task though |
| 06:00 |
|
beta0x64 |
sigh |
| 06:00 |
|
beta0x64 |
I hate being a team player, fine |
| 06:00 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Heh |
| 06:02 |
|
beta0x64 |
oh geez you're gonna need solutions too |
| 06:02 |
|
beta0x64 |
I guess I can just run my program :P |
| 06:03 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Let the robot do it! |
| 06:03 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
(And by "robot" I mean "your program") |
| 06:04 |
|
beta0x64 |
I just like writing code :( |
| 06:04 |
|
* beta0x64 |
is a big ol' nerd. |
| 06:06 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Well you can participate as much or as little as you like. Just respect other people. |
| 06:06 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
And if you have ideas we would like to hear about them and discuss them. |
| 06:06 |
|
eMBee |
if you explain what was wrong with the old java version on the talk page that's about all that's needed. others can then pick up the hint to check their examples too. |
| 06:08 |
|
beta0x64 |
I find it sad that I could not find any code to do an RREF |
| 06:08 |
|
beta0x64 |
I couldn't even find any good pseudocode that anyone agreed on. The pseudocode given at the top of the article is not the pseudocode in the wikipedia article now. and even the wikipedia article has a comment saying ("this is a bug blah blah") |
| 06:08 |
|
beta0x64 |
I seriously whipped out my textbook from last semester and wrote out steps 1-5 |
| 06:09 |
|
eMBee |
you are not the first one to solve a task for work, that's perfectly fine :-) |
| 06:09 |
|
eMBee |
interesting |
| 06:09 |
|
beta0x64 |
solve a task for work? |
| 06:09 |
|
beta0x64 |
I am a cashier unfortunately :( |
| 06:10 |
|
eMBee |
oh |
| 06:10 |
|
beta0x64 |
yea |
| 06:10 |
|
beta0x64 |
I was just doing this because I like matrices |
| 06:10 |
|
eMBee |
ah, i misread the potential employer one day |
| 06:10 |
|
eMBee |
sounded like you were talking about current work |
| 06:11 |
|
beta0x64 |
I mean, I would have really liked to just grab this RREF code from Rosetta (the only place I could find with RREF) and plug it into my chemical equation balancer but after a few chemical equations I noticed I was getting wrong answers. It wasn't me; it was the RREF code. |
| 06:12 |
|
beta0x64 |
Unfortunately, Jama and even Apache Commons Linear Algebra does not have RREF or even most basic matrix operations |
| 06:12 |
|
beta0x64 |
which is odd... |
| 06:12 |
|
beta0x64 |
it has more advanced things like decompositions |
| 06:12 |
|
beta0x64 |
I just want to do a gaussian-jordan elimination |
| 06:12 |
|
beta0x64 |
nooo |
| 06:12 |
|
beta0x64 |
can't do that |
| 06:13 |
|
beta0x64 |
gotta do a LU Decomposition -_- |
| 06:15 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Oddly enough I think we have that task too |
| 06:15 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Let's try it...[[LU decomposition]] |
| 06:15 |
|
fedaykin |
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/LU_decomposition |
| 06:15 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Yep |
| 06:16 |
|
beta0x64 |
see but Jama and Apache Commons both can do that |
| 06:16 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Library solutions are just as acceptable as scratch solutions in most cases |
| 06:16 |
|
beta0x64 |
I want to cover all the basic crap that's useful for, let's say, balancing chemical equations or describing the general flow pattern |
| 06:16 |
|
beta0x64 |
of a network |
| 06:16 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
We usually put them along side the scratch ones |
| 06:17 |
|
beta0x64 |
http://commons.apache.org/math[…]guide/linear.html |
| 06:17 |
|
fedaykin |
"Math - The Commons Math User Guide - Linear Algebra" http://rldn.net/95y |
| 06:17 |
|
beta0x64 |
it would be so simple :( |
| 06:24 |
|
beta0x64 |
wait wait |
| 06:24 |
|
beta0x64 |
can I put this on github? |
| 06:27 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
As far as I know you can do whatever. mikemol what do you think? |
| 06:27 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
(He runs the site...he knows more about the license restrictions) |
| 06:28 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Its also 130AM where he is (and where I am). He might be in bed. |
| 06:29 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
My gut feeling is that since the code is yours anyway you're good to go with whatever you want to do with it. |
| 06:31 |
|
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| 06:42 |
|
eMBee |
beta0x64: the code you wrote is your own, you can publish it any way you want |
| 06:42 |
|
eMBee |
if you use other peoples code from RC then you need to follow the GFDL 1.2 license |
| 06:44 |
|
eMBee |
unless there is an exception. if you publish your code on github, you could add a link to that from the RC solution so people who want to use it can find your version |
| 07:03 |
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| 08:56 |
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| 09:03 |
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| 10:03 |
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| 10:11 |
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| 11:17 |
|
mikemol |
beta0x64, mwn3d_phone1: eMBee stated the scenario correctly. |
| 11:17 |
|
mikemol |
Re 'double' vs 'float' ... I haven't looked at the code in question, but is it Java? Didn't they add generics support recently? |
| 11:17 |
|
mikemol |
er. double vs fraction. |
| 12:26 |
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| 12:55 |
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| 14:38 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
mikemol: generics wouldn't really help there. The rounding errors happen in doubles too. I'm pretty sure the original was using doubles. |
| 14:39 |
|
mikemol |
mwn3d_phone: I assumed generics behave like C++ templates; the type is specified where a function is called, rather than in the function body. |
| 14:39 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Yeah that's pretty much how they work |
| 14:39 |
|
mikemol |
So you'd call the function specifying 'double' or 'fraction', depending on the precision you demanded. |
| 14:39 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
But no type would really help there |
| 14:39 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Since the original type was a primitive type |
| 14:40 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
If the code has "a + b" in it you're stuck with primitives |
| 14:40 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
No operator overloading |
| 14:40 |
|
mikemol |
oh |
| 14:40 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
And there's no arbitrary precision primitive |
| 14:43 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
also generics don't work on primitive types. So to use doubles or floats you'd have to use the wrapper objects but again you lose the ability to say "a + b" in the function. You'd have to have something like "a.add(b)" and you'd need the right type restrictions and it'd get really complicated. |
| 14:43 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Basically generics in java aren't the same as generics in C++ |
| 14:44 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Because as far as I can tell from internet comments about the implementation...java did them wrong |
| 14:44 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
For the sake of compatability with old code |
| 14:45 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
I came on to the java scene after generics were in place so I don't really know why they're wrong |
| 14:46 |
|
mikemol |
because they're not like C++'s templates. :P |
| 14:47 |
|
mikemol |
Well, I won't defend the C++ template syntax. I don't know any other, but I've seen enough people complain about it. |
| 14:51 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
Yeah I think it comes down to personal preference. Though it would be nice to be able to use primitives in generics. |
| 14:59 |
|
* Hypftier |
hands mwn3d_phone C# :P |
| 15:00 |
|
mwn3d_phone |
:p |
| 16:10 |
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| 19:32 |
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| 19:33 |
|
nimdAHK |
hey mikemol, are you there? |
| 19:33 |
|
mikemol |
yeah |
| 19:33 |
|
nimdAHK |
I've been uploading LabVIEW solutions, but I'm afraid that I might be doing it wrong... |
| 19:33 |
|
mikemol |
how so? |
| 19:34 |
|
nimdAHK |
LabVIEW is entirely graphical, so I've been using the third-party "code capture tool" |
| 19:34 |
|
nimdAHK |
but of course you can't simply download-and-run |
| 19:34 |
|
nimdAHK |
you would need to type it in by hand |
| 19:34 |
|
nimdAHK |
furthermore, the Case structure hides certain code from view |
| 19:34 |
|
nimdAHK |
so I would need to upload multiple screenshots of the same code. |
| 19:35 |
|
mikemol |
Unfortunately, there is no good solution for LabVIEW. What do the saved labview files look like, compressed? |
| 19:35 |
|
mikemol |
e.g. with 7zip? |
| 19:35 |
|
mikemol |
I know they can be big uncompressed. |
| 19:35 |
|
nimdAHK |
uncompressed, the Animation.vi is 10KB |
| 19:35 |
|
nimdAHK |
let me compress it |
| 19:35 |
|
nimdAHK |
LZMA2, Ultra? |
| 19:35 |
|
mikemol |
Only 10KB? Bah. that's nowhere near as large as I thought. |
| 19:36 |
|
nimdAHK |
it compressed down to 8KB |
| 19:36 |
|
nimdAHK |
but... that's a small code |
| 19:36 |
|
mikemol |
yeah, and most of that's going to be the compression header. |
| 19:36 |
|
mikemol |
At least for the really heavy compressors. |
| 19:36 |
|
nimdAHK |
recursive solutions generally require an icon included |
| 19:37 |
|
nimdAHK |
so my recursive Factorial subVI is 25 KB |
| 19:37 |
|
nimdAHK |
Here, look at this one: http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Re[…]_a_string#LabVIEW |
| 19:37 |
|
mikemol |
nimdAHK: I'd suggest using the 'file upload' capability of MW, and linking to that file next to your screenshots. |
| 19:37 |
|
fedaykin |
"Repeat a string - Rosetta Code" http://rldn.net/13cBZ |
| 19:38 |
|
nimdAHK |
can I upload vi's? |
| 19:38 |
|
mikemol |
Use compressors like zip, gzip or 7z to try to keep the file size under 50-100KB. |
| 19:38 |
|
nimdAHK |
Permitted file types: png, gif, jpeg, svg. |
| 19:39 |
|
mikemol |
I'll have to work on that. I can add more supported file types, but I want to enable the right ones. :) |
| 19:39 |
|
mikemol |
I wish MW were more inspective than simply matching extensions. |
| 19:39 |
|
nimdAHK |
I would be fine with uploading .vi's alongside the screenshots |
| 19:40 |
|
nimdAHK |
p.s., LabVIEW is really cool |
| 19:40 |
|
nimdAHK |
I acquired a license through the FIRST Robotics program |
| 19:40 |
|
mikemol |
Cool |
| 19:41 |
|
nimdAHK |
LabVIEW only had 6 solutions before I started, so there's scores of tasks I can solve |
| 19:41 |
|
nimdAHK |
I just wanted to make sure I was doing it correctly, since LabVIEW is unconventional. |
| 19:41 |
|
mikemol |
You're not the first person to start pushing LabVIEW on RC. |
| 19:42 |
|
nimdAHK |
The other person only solved 6 tasks? |
| 19:42 |
|
mikemol |
We had problems coming up with a good presentation format. |
| 19:42 |
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nimdAHK |
mm... |
| 19:42 |
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mikemol |
One way or another, LabVIEW is going to be a bit unconventional in how it's viewed and edited on the site. |
| 19:42 |
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nimdAHK |
I seem to recall some LabVIEW feature where the code is embedded inside a png file |
| 19:42 |
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nimdAHK |
that would be optimal |
| 19:43 |
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mikemol |
Hey, if that's supported, then by all means go that route! |
| 19:43 |
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nimdAHK |
oh yeah, re: upload problem -- I just set Chrome to block rosettacode from using Javascript |
| 19:43 |
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nimdAHK |
and it works perfectly |
| 19:43 |
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nimdAHK |
OOH! http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/9330 |
| 19:43 |
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fedaykin |
"Use VI Snippet to Store and Share Reusable Code Sections - Developer Zone - National Instruments" |
| 19:43 |
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mikemol |
That shouldn't be necessary; I disabled AJAX uploading serverside a while ago. |
| 19:43 |
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nimdAHK |
they're called snippets |
| 19:45 |
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nimdAHK |
hmmm... I'll solve the FizzBuzz task and make a snippet |
| 19:48 |
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nimdAHK |
The D looks good |
| 19:57 |
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nimdAHK |
LabVIEW snippets upload fine |
| 19:57 |
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nimdAHK |
The FizzBuzz one is 21KB |
| 19:59 |
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| 20:00 |
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nimdAHK |
hey mikemol, one more question |
| 20:00 |
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nimdAHK |
How does this sound? "The following image is a [http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/9330 VI Snippet]. You can drag-and-drop it directly from your browser onto the block diagram to run it." |
| 20:01 |
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nimdAHK |
perhaps the "directly from your browser" is incorrect; seems only IE is supported. |
| 20:02 |
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mikemol |
nimdAHK: I decline having an opinion at this time. |
| 20:02 |
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nimdAHK |
perhaps "The following image is a [http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/9330 VI Snippet]. You can drag-and-drop it from Windows Explorer onto the block diagram to run it."" |
| 20:02 |
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mikemol |
I suggest you put the text up, and if anyone has better ideas, they'll change it or put something in a talk page (yours or the page's) somewhere. |
| 20:02 |
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nimdAHK |
mikemol: should I put it on every solution? |
| 20:02 |
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mikemol |
It sounds like something appropriately cookie-cutter, yeah. |
| 20:03 |
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nimdAHK |
OK. |
| 20:03 |
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mikemol |
Might even make sense to drop the text in a template, and transclude that. |
| 20:03 |
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nimdAHK |
how would I do that? |
| 20:03 |
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mikemol |
Edit [[Template:VI snippet]], and then put {{VI snippet}} in various places. |
| 20:04 |
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fedaykin |
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Template:VI_snippet (Doesn't exist.) |
| 20:04 |
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nimdAHK |
hey, it works! |
| 20:04 |
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nimdAHK |
I downloaded it and dropped it. |
| 20:04 |
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nimdAHK |
OK, I'll do that. |
| 20:07 |
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nimdAHK |
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/FizzBuzz#LabVIEW |
| 20:07 |
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nimdAHK |
beautiful. Thanks for the help. |
| 20:07 |
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fedaykin |
"FizzBuzz - Rosetta Code" |
| 20:15 |
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