Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2013-05-21

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:44 timotimo the rosettacode planit is apparently wildly out of date
00:44 timotimo planet*
00:52 mikemol timotimo: Indeed
00:52 mikemol I haven't been running the planetplanet software in ages. :-|
00:53 timotimo then axe it? :)
00:53 mikemol timotimo: So, here's the problem with your upload...it's cached by CloudFlare. Just give it a few hours, and the cache will expire.
00:55 timotimo hm, but how come people on the same network as me get the new version, but not me?
00:55 timotimo it would explain why i get the same wrongness with wget, though
00:56 timotimo oh, maybe they were getting it via ipv6, in which case they'd have an actually different IP from mine
00:56 mikemol Could be.
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01:17 timotimo mikemol: i wonder if a custom CAPTCHA could be devised for rosettacode. maybe based on a "identify the language of this snippet" task?
01:21 mikemol timotimo: QuestyCaptcha could do that.
01:22 mikemol The problem with that approach is that it makes it very difficult for beginners.
01:22 mikemol And, frankly, its response could be scripted.
01:24 timotimo you mean scripted to "beat the captcha"?
01:25 timotimo i also see nothing wrong with adding "feel free to search rosettacode for the source of this code" or something to it
01:25 timotimo i don't expect someone would target rosettacode individually
01:25 mikemol Sure...but that's pretty easy to get around.
01:26 timotimo in my intuition it would be enough to make something that's easy to get around; like putting your ssh server on any port different from 22
01:26 timotimo it would get rid of about 99% of spam, but serious attacks would still be successful; saving yourself from those requires serious effort anyway
01:26 mikemol timotimo: I don't know if you were monitoring the channel a few weeks back, but while we were undergoing another spam flood, every time I described (in here) the measures I was taking, countermeasures were employed within hours.
01:27 mikemol Even when I left misleading information in here, it was acted on.
01:27 timotimo i wasn't
01:27 timotimo oh, what.
01:27 timotimo that's crazy
01:27 timotimo is rosettacode such a profitable target? or are there just so ridiculously many spammers out there?
01:28 mikemol And when I was looking to employ firewall-based countermeasures, I discovered it was under a SYN flood attack.
01:28 timotimo isn't a SYN flood just denial of service? why would that be profitable at all?
01:29 sorear timotimo: a kind of denial of service
01:30 mikemol I think it's at least partly a profitable target; it's fairly prominent among search engine results. And if you watch the fake user pages being created in the last week or so, the content has started morphing to try to mimick what a hobbyist/professional programmer might leave.
01:30 sorear timotimo: historical TCP implementations often used a small (10ish) fixed size buffer for pending SYNs, so if you send a bunch of SYNs to a host and then ignore the replies it becomes unable to accept any new connections
01:31 timotimo "How To Deal With Drug Issues" - sounds about right! :P
01:31 mikemol There are at least three spammer profiles hitting RC right now. That's one of them.
01:32 mikemol Another is the hobby/professional "hi, I'm so and so"
01:32 mikemol The third is some generic spambot that hasn't noticed that adding links to pages triggers another captcha.
01:33 timotimo oh, didn't even see captchas yet on the whole site (that must mean the site deems my contributions hammy enough)
01:33 timotimo is there a way to filter out events from spammers on the RecentChanges page perhaps?
01:34 timotimo AFK for a few minutes; gotta run catch a tram
01:34 mwn3d timotimo: once we delete the pages the old edits should disappear
01:34 mwn3d I think there are options to filter out "log" changes which should remove block and delete log entries
01:34 timotimo ah, indeed; i didn't look back far enough
01:35 mikemol timotimo: CAPTCHAs are triggered by a few things...but one of the most effective ones is when a link is added to a page.
01:35 mwn3d External link
01:35 * mikemol nods
01:40 timotimo i suppose spam is a form of flattery
01:41 timotimo congratulations on making rosettacode grow so big, btw
02:13 mikemol :)
02:24 TimToady it would be faster to clean up if the dialogs defaulted to indefinite, spam, and vandalism
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02:26 timotimo is there a "block multiple users"/"delete multiple pages" functionality?
02:26 timotimo that might be even nicer. have a list of all users, most recently created first, with a row of checkboxes
02:29 TimToady or set something up such that your first few changes are quaranteened until moderated
02:30 timotimo can quick responses be kind-of-sort-of guaranteed? so that quaranteen doesn't last longer than a few hours in the regular case?
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03:11 mikemol I agree; the default values are a pain.
03:11 mikemol Though, frankly, I'd rather drop an 'indefinite' ban on the username and 30 or 90-day bans on the IP.
03:12 mikemol Indefinite bans on IPs seem like a bad idea in the IPv4 space. *Especially* with CGN coming in.
03:13 mikemol I believe there's a mechanism within MediaWiki which can be used for review. There's certainly a "review" feature, but I don't know if it can be applied to quarantine.
03:14 mikemol Of course, then you run into a problem of edit merges if you have edits from multiple people on the same page. MW gets around that at the moment by bouncing edits on stale data, but making that apply to edits on pages with pre-existing review-pending edits would be a direct avenue to a DoS attack on specific pages.
03:35 embee one page per solution would help with that
03:35 embee but that would be a major revamp
04:03 mikemol It's a revamp we tried to figure out how to do with the aid of semantic mediawiki; the task pages as we see them would be assembled by a semantic query for all example pages meeting the task requirements.
04:04 mikemol As I recall, we tried to do it with the [[Hough transform]] task. And as I recall, Coderjoe ran into bugs in Semantic MediaWiki.
04:04 fedaykin http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Hough_transform
04:05 embee oh, i wasn't aware of that
04:06 mikemol It's a revamp I'd love to see accomplished. Being able to organize data that way would massively expand the power of RC as a resource.
04:07 embee hmpf, my isp is intercepting dns queries, making them fail for rosettacode.org and redirect to an advertizing page. i have no idea why
04:07 mikemol You could group things by language. Or by language idiom. Or by whatever else examples got tagged with.
04:07 embee so is the problem to split the pages or to reassemble them after they are split?
04:22 mwn3d The SMW would take a long time to run I think
04:22 mwn3d And there would be a lot of work to move the examples out to their own pages and get the links to work
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12:01 bearophile Hello
12:01 bearophile Regarding this task:  http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Playfair_cipher
12:01 bearophile I have just created a Python2.6 translation of the Perl6 version
12:02 bearophile But the Python version probably needs a bit of improvement, like finding ways to shorten the splitter() function
12:02 bearophile See you later.
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13:33 mikemol mwn3d: I wouldn't worry about the query runtimes for building pages. In practice, it would probably be less than what we currently have, since the system could cache more intermediate results. Right now, every time a huge page is edited, the *whole* page must be re-parsed and re-rendered.
13:34 mikemol With per-example edits, you can parse and render that bit once, cache that and collect from cache when the example is needed again.
13:36 mikemol As for data volume...we've got, what, 30k snippets? That's trivial to perform queries on...a rasberry pi running MySQL would have enough enough performance to handle that. (Not that I'd use an rpi in that context...it's just an example.)
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18:06 mwn3d Holy crap ianosgood is back again
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20:20 mikemol I've disabled uploads on the server. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/m​ediawiki-announce/2013-May/000131.html
20:20 fedaykin "[MediaWiki-announce] MediaWiki Security Release: 1.20.6 and 1.19.7" http://rldn.net/Dxp
20:21 mikemol I'll try to get it updated this weekend.
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