Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2014-04-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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09:28 mihailp hi
09:29 mihailp why rosettacode so unstable ?
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09:39 ttmrichter mihailp: Probably because of hosting issues?
09:39 mihailp yea
09:39 mihailp ddos or need admin's help ?
09:41 ttmrichter Or needs money for the hosting to get a better, more stable base?
09:42 mihailp ok
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10:16 grondilu wth is wrong?  It's always offline :(
11:32 mihailp maybe kernel panic loop ?
11:32 ttmrichter Not down for me.
11:39 mihailp it usable for several clicks, 10mins timeout then
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12:02 bearophile I have to update several D entries on the rosettacode site, and it's not going well...
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13:43 mikemol Biggest problems RC seems to be facing at the moment...there are a couple large images that someone keeps trying to preview. They don't wait for the server to finish resizing the image, and they try again.
13:43 mikemol Last couple times I've logged into the server to check on slowness, there were multiple 'convert' processes trying to work on the same image.
13:44 mikemol My employer's infra is just about in shape to start hosting RC. Just one or two more things to address.
13:46 mikemol We've got an array of nice new servers; I expect RC's RAM allotment to be about four times what it is at prgmr.com, and it'll have much more CPU capacity available to it. Probably going to set up redundancy and better monitoring while I'm at it.
13:46 mihailp sounds good
13:54 mihailp when faster ?
14:00 mikemol No promises. I'll try to work on it a little bit each week.
14:01 mihailp ah, ok
15:24 grondilu Just wondering, has RV ever asked hospitality from the Wikimedia foundation?  Seems to me that programming chrestomathy is something they should consider hosting as a Wikimedia project.
15:24 grondilu s/RV/RC/
15:25 ttmrichter A bit cultish that crowd.
15:26 ttmrichter I can't speak for mikemol, but I know were I behind RC I'd stay far away from them.
15:26 grondilu k
15:27 grondilu what about Wikia?  Would it be too big for them or something?
15:27 mikemol grondilu: Been tried, kinda, before. Wikimedia didn't want any of it. Big part of why RC still exists, actually.
15:27 mikemol RC uses a fair amount of custom extensions, so Wikia wouldn't be a fit at all.
15:28 grondilu k
15:28 mikemol RC's biggest problem right now is that my life has been busy as hell for the past 2-3 years, and I haven't been able to keep up on maintenance like I should.
15:29 grondilu u're the only one in charge??
15:30 mikemol grondilu: From a legal standpoint, RC is me, and I am RC. Out of concern for my users, I give keys to the server out very, very sparingly. I can count on half a hand how many people I've let have accounts no the server, and the people with root access have been even fewer. (Only one other...)
15:32 grondilu hum...  ok.
15:33 mikemol Anyway, things should start improving soon.
15:35 grondilu I hope so.  But now I also wonder if you should not consider giving on a Wiki and have everything hosted as a GitHub repo.
15:35 grondilu *giving up
15:36 grondilu though I'm not sure that would be compatible with GitHub policies.
15:36 ttmrichter How would Github help?
15:36 mikemol grondilu: ingy's done some work on that front.
15:36 grondilu well, free and reliable hosting, for one?
15:36 ttmrichter I mean aside from the fact that Github's language identification routines are TERRIBLE and break on anything serious...
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15:37 ttmrichter How do you give people the opportunity to edit and add stuff without having a never-ending stream of PRs?
15:37 grondilu yeah, that would not be perfect, for sure.
15:37 ttmrichter And I wouldn't exactly call Github reliable either.
15:37 ttmrichter MAYBE if you're in North America.
15:37 ttmrichter POSSIBLY if you're in Europe.
15:37 ttmrichter Anywhere else in the world and Github's attitude seems to be a FOAD.
15:38 grondilu I'm in Europe and rarely have connection issue with github
15:38 ttmrichter I know several people in Europe who frequently have connection problems with Github.
15:38 ttmrichter And if you're here with me in east Asia it's a permanent state of affairs.
15:39 grondilu ok, so much for github then, I guess.
15:39 ttmrichter I'd say that Github is only slightly more reliable than Rosettacode for me.
15:39 mikemol ttmrichter: I believe the endgame of the github approach is that it goes from being a centralized model (one central server with the authoritative copy) to a bazaar model (RC becomes a floating lump of code of which there are many copies, and no authoritative copy)
15:39 ttmrichter And a whole lot less convenient (beginning with that absolute horror of a software package: Git).
15:40 mikemol And that's not even a github thing, per se, but a git thing.
15:40 ttmrichter If you want to go that route, please choose something other than Git.
15:40 mikemol IOW, Rosetta Code would become "the Rosetta Code".
15:40 ttmrichter 'Cause my contributions, paltry as they may be, will go to zero with Git.
15:42 mikemol Personally, I rather imagine a web/wiki interface backed by git. That'd honestly be the best approach.
15:42 mikemol Familiar front, flexible backend.
15:42 ttmrichter That'd be fine, minus the Git part.
15:42 mikemol You wouldn't have to even know the backend existed, necessarily.
15:42 ttmrichter Well, if that's the case, then yes, I don't care what the back end is.
15:42 ttmrichter It could be RCS for all I'd care at that point.
15:43 grondilu mikemol: yeah a git repo in the backend would be nice.  That would allow consulation-edition even when the web server is down.
15:43 ttmrichter But if I have to fuck with Git's stupidly painful command line options to contribute, I'd just stop.
15:43 mikemol mediawiki markup is hard enough for some people. I wouldn't want to throw more arcana than absolutely necessary at them, honestly.
15:44 mikemol Define a workflow and run with it.
15:44 grondilu ttmrichter: what do you use instead of git?
15:44 ttmrichter grondilu: I would rather use ZIP and mkdir than Git.  :)  But in reality I use Fossil and sometimes Hg.
15:45 * grondilu checks out Fossil on wikipedia
15:46 grondilu that seems nice
15:47 ttmrichter For small to medium projects it's very nice.
15:48 ttmrichter If you're doing the Linux kernel (or things in that scale) it's not suited.
15:48 grondilu I suppose that would not be ok for RC, would it?
15:49 ttmrichter Probably.
15:49 ttmrichter It hosts the Tcl repo, for example, which is a bit bigger than RC.
15:50 grondilu does the web interface allow syntax highlighting?
15:53 ttmrichter Only through JS modules, sadly.
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18:02 bearophile Hello
18:03 bearophile Have you noticed how the list of registered spammers is getting a little out of hand? http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Special:Log/newusers
18:03 bearophile See you later.
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19:07 ingy ttmrichter: I maintain this mirror https://github.com/acmeism/RosettaCodeData
19:08 ingy my ambition is to convert every wiki commit to a git commit
19:08 ingy to have full history
19:08 ingy that repo is just the current wiki head, updated from time to time
19:11 ingy I think maybe a strategy for converting from mediawiki to git, would be to turn that git repo into a website, and keep iterating until it works as good or better than the mediawiki
19:28 grondilu notice that there is a builting wiki in github.  How good is it and could it replace mediawiki?
19:28 grondilu *builtin
19:29 grondilu also, can you include a repo file into the wiki?  (a hard copy would be silly)
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