Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #rosettacode, 2015-04-10

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
03:55 Eriksiers[RCo] joined #rosettacode
03:56 Eriksiers[RCo] good evening, gentlemen
04:01 TimToady don't forget the ladies!
04:29 ttmrichter Surely the ladies can speak for themselves?
04:44 eMBee they can, but they should not have to
04:46 ttmrichter I agree.  I just think it's a bit demeaning for a man to come in to speak for them.
04:46 eMBee if someone is treated unjustly, it is everyones duty to speak up
04:48 ttmrichter So who was treated unjustly in this case?  Was there someone excluded?  Or was this a hypothetical?  This is why it's generally best to let the unjustly-treated speak up first and then support them, rather than pre-emptively speaking for them.
04:48 ttmrichter Speaking up for them implies they can't speak for themselves.
04:48 ttmrichter Which is, IMO, REALLY insulting.
04:50 eMBee we should not make choices for them, but we should support them
04:50 eMBee and i disagree with what you just said
04:51 ttmrichter Of course you do.  You're not the one being marginalized and infantalized.
04:51 eMBee it does not imply that they can't speak for themselves
04:51 ttmrichter And I disagree with that.  Very strongly, in fact.
04:51 eMBee now that is insulting: claiming that speaking up for someone is infantilizing them
04:52 ttmrichter And now we're playing the "NO *YOU'RE* INSULTING!" Olypmics game.  Sadly all too predictable.
04:55 eMBee i'd like to close with pointing out that i have read from women who directly ask men to speak up when someone treats them unjustly or inappropriately
04:56 eMBee i think it was something from the ada initiative
04:59 eMBee if something serious happens, waiting for the victim to speak up is not enough, it is rather part of the problem
05:02 eMBee it's a convenient excuse for not doing anything to stop gender discrimination and strengthen the equality of men and women
05:03 * eMBee is off tocatch a bus
05:38 TimToady "Why can't a woman...be more like a man?" —Henry Higgins
06:13 eMBee oh no, please not. more than a decade ago austria had a female candidate for president, my mother said, she would not vote for her because that woman was to much like a male politician...
06:15 TimToady I was sending up someone else's attitude there...
06:18 eMBee i thought as much, please send my response back down :-)
06:18 TimToady but it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't endeavor, and people in the middle get shot at by every side :)
06:18 eMBee yes
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