Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2013-07-05

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00:08 Nash_ Nice! This worked with cmd.run: "- name: "bash -lc 'rvm use 2.0.0@mow && bundle'""
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00:39 auser hey all
00:39 emocakes howdy auser
00:39 auser how are ya good buddy?
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00:40 auser hey Furao
00:43 Corey Ahoy.
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00:52 Furao hello
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01:50 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt - http://saltstack.org | 0.16.0 is the latest | Please be patient when asking questions as we are volunteers and may not have immediate answers - Channel logs are available at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/
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02:49 Furao sudo: >>> /etc/sudoers: syntax error near line 8 <<<
02:49 Furao :( forgot - template: jinja
02:49 Furao now can't sudo as root
02:50 cxz lol
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03:18 teskew1 salt-cloud and salt are in perpetual out-of-sync broken state
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04:11 Nash_ Is the rvm state supposed to be available in the latest salt? http://docs.saltstack.com/ref/modules/all/salt.modules.rvm.html#module-salt.modules.rvm
04:11 Nash_ I keep getting: Comment:   State rvm.do found in sls test is unavailable
04:11 Nash_ I'm on 0.16.0
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05:13 auser hey all
05:13 auser Happy 4th of July for those who celebrate it
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05:20 oz_akan_ it is too late for anyone who celebrates 4th of July
05:20 joshe there are still fireworks going off where I am
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05:20 oz_akan_ oh
05:27 * emocakes is listening to one of my favorite tracks, "Cereal Killer" by Method Man, from the album Blackout! via Spotify.
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07:30 zloidemon Hi, how many memory need for new version? I always have [ERROR   ] fork #1 failed: 12 (Cannot allocate memory)
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07:40 EugeneKay I've never had a problem with Salt OOMing. The smallest box I use it on is 1GB+256MB swap; what sort of machine are you using/
07:41 EugeneKay (said machine has quite a few other daemons running, using most of that space)
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07:56 balboah my minion uses <30M
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08:30 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt - http://saltstack.org | 0.16.0 is the latest | Please be patient when asking questions as we are volunteers and may not have immediate answers - Channel logs are available at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/
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09:31 wahahajun hello. Is any one ever use salt to setup SQL_Server
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09:33 gebi hi all :)
09:33 wahahajun when i run the slat '*' pkg.install SQL_Server.  I got nothing. event when i run the  slat '*' test.ping it fails
09:34 Furao apt-cache search SQL_Server
09:34 Furao nothing
09:34 Furao it's not a package here
09:34 wahahajun is seem the communication with minions blocked by run this cmd
09:35 gebi how can i change the saltstack transport?
09:36 wahahajun yes. i have configure the init.sls for pkg.install on the windows
09:37 wahahajun but even salt '*' test.ping failed
09:38 Furao your minion is not registered and/or connected to the master
09:40 wahahajun but at the begin test.ping is success. after i run the pkg.install. test.ping will fail
09:40 Furao check the logs
09:41 wahahajun sorry. where can i found the log
09:42 Furao I don't know, I never used Windows since windows 3.11. but from what I've seen before. windows admin tend to ignore logs. when something go wrong they try and reboot until it works
09:42 Furao I didn't know you could install a database on a desktop/tablet OS
09:43 wahahajun yes. i have reboot 3 times...
09:44 wahahajun does the salt master have log?
09:44 wahahajun maybe i could check it
09:45 Furao in Unix yes, in windows, I don't know. maybe it use a Windows log handler (if windows support logs)
09:45 Furao I hope the minion don't popup windows with debug output :)
09:47 wahahajun to find the bug i think the popup maybe usefull
09:47 wahahajun sometime..
09:50 wahahajun i find the master log file in /var/log/salt
09:50 Furao c:\var\log\salt ?
09:51 wahahajun warning info caught signal 15, stopping the salt master
09:51 wahahajun no. my salt-master in linux. salt-minion in windows
09:51 Furao ah, the states are executing on the minion, the master just serve files and render pillar
09:53 wahahajun salt '*' test.ping is also executing on the minion? So i should check the minion log
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09:53 saltnoob hi
09:54 saltnoob I'm sorry to bother but does anyone know or can point me to documentation as to how I can provision the master using salt?
09:54 Furao wahahajun: yes
09:55 Furao saltnoob: provision?
09:57 gebi is there any way to switch the current salt transport?
09:57 saltnoob Furao: yes... for instance, I havd a standard master-minion setup. But I'm like to install something on the master (say emacs). Can't I do it with salt?
09:58 Furao saltnoob: install the minion on the same VM as the master
09:58 Furao in fact, I use salt (local mode) to install the master
09:58 Furao gebi: salt transport?
09:58 gebi Furao: the thing with the home grown encryption
09:59 saltnoob ah... so the master can have bothe the salt-master and salt-minion package installed?
09:59 saltnoob cool
09:59 saltnoob Furao: also, can I use both local and network storage? Hor?
09:59 saltnoob How?
09:59 Furao local mode is salt-call --local
10:00 Furao it's running the minion without a master
10:00 gebi Furao: i'm evaluating it for a bigger deployment
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10:00 Furao the master "vm"
10:00 gebi but the security people have NACKed the software on security grounds
10:00 Furao gebi: no, but thomas said quietly that they want to have an optional SSH transport
10:00 gebi (because of the security history)
10:00 Furao it's not there yet
10:02 gebi oh ok
10:02 gebi that would certainly help
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10:04 gebi Furao: i hope 0mq people will someday integrate curveCP or something like that
10:04 gebi that would be the ideal fit
10:04 gebi QUIC might also be worth a look, though it's a transport on it's own so not that ideal for 0mq
10:09 Jason-AVST salt documentation on pillars is pretty light.  it would be nice to see more examples/
10:09 Furao Jason-AVST: usage? or definition?
10:09 Furao if it's on usage: github.com/bclermont/states
10:09 Furao hundred of examples
10:10 Jason-AVST Furao: I'll check it out, thanks
10:13 wahahajun @Furao.Sorry where i can find the salt-minion's log ? in master or minion?
10:14 wahahajun i found a minion's log file in master but it contains very old info.  not updated info.
10:15 wahahajun When reboot the network connection the test.ping also Ok...very strange..
10:20 Jason-AVST Furao: no seeing the pillars there, only states and templates. am I missing something?
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10:51 Furao Jason-AVST: I said usage not definition :)
10:52 wahahajun Hello. Can we use command in the minion side?
10:52 wahahajun to test in the minion
10:52 wahahajun anyone ever try..
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11:21 wahahajun How can i see the log in minion
11:22 wahahajun so boring problem without log
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11:22 wahahajun czazy..
11:23 wahahajun salt-minion -l debg
11:24 knightsamar whahajun: have you looked at /var/log/salt/minion or similar file in the same location?
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11:38 chocolate_salty_ hi... quisk question... why do I have to define guid and uid when creating users?
11:38 chocolate_salty_ and where should I store the credentials?
11:38 chocolate_salty_ like passwords and some such
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11:42 Jason-AVST Furao: could you point me in the direction of some definition examples?
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13:53 steveyeah hey guys, can anyone help me in using the pecl module in states?
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14:53 andihit - source: salt://somedir/somefile.ext?env=base should work in 0.16.0, right? (without ?env=base it does work)
14:53 Psi-Jack Okay.. So I have a salt state to add and another to remove ssh keys from users, but the one I have trying to remove entries, all I get with it, so far, in basic tests, is "key not present", yet clearly it is! The key files are sourced in by the ssh_auth.absent.source function for the ssh_auth.absent.user. Why would it dare tell me the key is not present when I can clearly see it in the authorized_keys fil
14:53 Psi-Jack e?
14:54 jeddi Psi-Jack: pastebin some state files.
14:55 Psi-Jack http://pastebin.ca/2418359
14:57 Psi-Jack Hm, hmm, looks like absent doesn't take source. :/
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15:00 Psi-Jack Yeah, that was it. ssh_auth.absent doesn't take source. just name, user, and config.
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15:00 dzen Psi-Jack: take a look to the documentation
15:00 dzen http://docs.saltstack.com/ref/states/all/salt.states.ssh_auth.html
15:00 dzen salt.states.ssh_auth.absent(name, user, config='.ssh/authorized_keys')¶
15:00 Psi-Jack dzen: Hence, why I just mentioned... LOL
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15:00 dzen there is no argument "source" in the function
15:00 Psi-Jack Looking at it now.
15:00 dzen sorry :p
15:01 Psi-Jack But thanks :)
15:01 wifigi I have an issue with using salt-syndic and salt-minion on the same machine to connect to a root master. I posted a more detailed description on the mailing list: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/salt-users/_dr_OOIzzJY
15:02 ruimarin_ is there any know issue with hierarchical data using pillar on 0.15.x?
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15:02 bfrog what happened with that RSA key stuff
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15:08 cdn Hi all, have an issue trying to get latest build install with all the python dependancies on a clean windows server.  I get the error message "ImportError: No module named fcntl "  but some reading tells me this shouldn't be used on Windows servers?
15:09 cdn Could it be due to the fact I am using a few newer versions of the dependant libraries like pyzmq-2.2.0 instead of 2.1.10,  etc
15:14 wahahajun maybe you don't have the init.sls file such as http://docs.saltstack.com/ref/windows-package-manager.html#generate-repo-cache-file
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15:16 Bastion2202 hey guys, it is getting harder and harder to check the result of state.sls (more and more servers under salt) is there a way to only get errors and changes in the output ?
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15:17 cdn Hmm, the Master has the init.sls but this new minion is having issue even just starting up in commandline debug mode
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15:19 andihit anybody using the ?env=... feature successfully? just digging into the code and can't find any reference to it
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15:22 wahahajun @cdn i'm also trying to install somesoftware on windows...also met many problem..
15:22 Koma Hi all!  I've create a path /srv/salt/defaults. In this path there is  init.sls and file2.sls
15:22 Koma now
15:23 Koma init.sls is correctly called but file2.sls not
15:23 Koma what I need to do to make state.highstate to make respect all the sls in that folder?
15:25 andihit did you include file2.sls in init.sls?
15:26 ruimarin_ why wouldn't this work? http://pastebin.com/NpG7Efya
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15:27 Koma andihit:  how I've to include it?
15:28 andihit Koma: http://docs.saltstack.com/ref/states/include.html
15:33 cdn @wahahajun Ya, modifying the bootstrap.batch file so that I can load salt-develop and it's pre-req onto a clean machine easily.  Great batch file, just need to tweak the remaining bits that are error'ing out.  Hopefully something small is wrong.
15:34 Koma andihit: seems that I've some difficult on understanding multiple sls in a single folder
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15:36 wahahajun sorry .who can tell me how run salt cmd in debug mode ?
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15:37 wahahajun i can see anything after run the salt cmd
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15:40 Koma there is a vim syntax checker extension for sls ?
15:41 Bastion2202 Koma: https://github.com/saltstack/salt-vim
15:41 Koma Frak!
15:42 cdn from Python scripts folder I run "python salt-minion -l debug -c c:\salt\conf" to run in debug
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16:18 Psi-Jack So.. When I do the example as provided by http://docs.saltstack.com/ref/states/all/salt.states.ssh_auth.html, the part where multiple keys are provided in on a list of names values.. The comment actually does NOT get applied, but the default comment always does. If I remove the default comment, the comment is totally omitted entirely. Why oh why is that?
16:18 Psi-Jack Example as per the sshkeys: sate
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16:20 wahahajun @cdn thanks for your answer....it really useful
16:21 wahahajun now i found the minion is single-thread for mission from master.. .
16:26 StDiluted I see .16.0 is released, what is the upgrade procedure?
16:26 Psi-Jack YEah.. So, why is my key comments not actually working as expected when they're obviously being supplied by my state, but being completely ignored.
16:26 Psi-Jack And stripped out, specifically.
16:27 Psi-Jack But the key type, ssh-dss vs ssh-rsa is working.
16:28 Psi-Jack Heh.. Heh... Wow... It didn't like spaces in the comment portion....
16:29 EugeneKay I use file.managed for dealing with those
16:29 EugeneKay Easier to just enumerate the keys that I do want, without having to specify the ones that I don't.
16:29 Psi-Jack EugeneKay: Doesn't work so well, when you want to add and remove, since ssh_auth.absent doesn't take source. SO instead, I'm putting them into a pillar.
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16:30 EugeneKay I don't use ssh_auth at all
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16:30 Psi-Jack And I don't want them specifically totally replaced/managed.
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16:30 Psi-Jack Some systems need certain keys that others don't.
16:30 EugeneKay That's what Pillar is for. ;-)
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16:31 Psi-Jack Yeah, and pillars also don't stack.
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16:39 StDiluted Furao, what .16.0 issue did you find
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16:48 StDiluted Does anyone know the procedure for upgrading to .16.0?
16:48 StDiluted minions first, then master? etc?
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16:52 Psi-Jack Hmmm, Coming from a former puppet background, you'd update the master before the slaves.
16:52 StDiluted hey UtahDave
16:52 Psi-Jack Because the master actually compiles the templates to deliver to the slaves(minions)
16:52 StDiluted yes, but this is a different paradigm than that
16:53 UtahDave hey, StDiluted!
16:53 StDiluted I'm just wondering if anything was changed that will cause the minions not to be able to contact the master if I upgrade it first
16:53 Psi-Jack Is it? The Salt Master still seems to compile the templates to me.
16:53 UtahDave Psi-Jack: yeah, in Salt you should always upgrade the master first.  The master should be the same or newer version than the minions
16:53 StDiluted cool
16:53 UtahDave The minions compile the templates.
16:53 Psi-Jack UtahDave: I thought so. :)
16:53 Psi-Jack Ohhh.
16:54 Psi-Jack The minions actually do the compiling? Interesting.
16:54 UtahDave Almost all work is done minion-side
16:54 StDiluted so utahDave, the upgrade process should be apt-get install salt-master on the master and then apt-get install salt-minion on the minions?
16:54 Psi-Jack Cool. Wasn't sure. LIke I said, I came from puppet formerly. :)
16:54 UtahDave The only things that happen on the master is the Pillar is compiled on the master and anything that is a "runner" happens on the master
16:54 Psi-Jack Heh, cool. :)
16:55 Psi-Jack So, salt.user.present, I'm assuming looks for a user in /etc/passwd.. I'm trying to insure that a user is present, but not actually in the system-wide passwd file, but instead, available via NSS lookup, due to LDAP usage.
16:55 UtahDave StDiluted: yes, that's right. Master first.
16:56 Psi-Jack How could I determine if a user is present from nss/ldap in that standpoint, as to whether or not to perform a state with a require for such a user.
16:56 UtahDave Psi-Jack: do you want it to create the user on the local system if it doesn't exist in ldap?
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16:56 Psi-Jack No, I don't want it to create the user at all. Just if the user can be found, make their home directory, etc..
16:57 UtahDave Psi-Jack: Hm. I think you'd have to test for the existence of the user using ldapmod.py
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17:00 Psi-Jack Hmmm, salt.modules.ldapmod has this lovely little warning. hehe
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17:01 Psi-Jack But hmmmm... Looks potentially even more powerful that I could've imagined. Like getting dynamic information for use as similar to pillars. ;)
17:04 UtahDave yep!
17:04 Psi-Jack Hmmm, testing with ldap.search doesn't work, "ldap.search" is not available. Hmm
17:04 cjh is it recommended to go with ubuntu 12.10's pkg or the latest?  10.1-3 is what i see as available
17:05 Psi-Jack cjh: I'd definitely, personally, say don't use salt prior to 0.15.3
17:05 cjh psi-jack: yeah i'm reading the changelog now.  there's a TON of changes :D
17:06 Psi-Jack Including security fixes.
17:06 Psi-Jack Critical security updates.
17:06 cjh psi-jack you sit in #ceph also right?
17:06 Psi-Jack cjh: Ceph on OFTC, yes.
17:06 cjh nice :)
17:06 cjh i was thinking of using salt to manage ceph
17:06 cjh instead of chef
17:06 cjh i think chef is too heavy for my little setup
17:06 cjh plus i prefer python > ruby
17:07 Psi-Jack Bleh, I could not stand chef at all.
17:07 cjh haha
17:07 Psi-Jack I started with puppet about 1~2 years ago, now I've completely switched to puppet.
17:07 cjh yeah it looks like salt is the way to go for me
17:07 Psi-Jack Err, salt.
17:07 cjh ah yeah i think i remember talking to you about this
17:07 Psi-Jack I miss hiera some, but oh well.
17:08 cjh i think you made the right choice
17:08 cjh so is there a ppa i should use to get the latest stable?
17:08 Psi-Jack Well, from a configuration management solution, salt just fits right. A little bitter sometimes, but does help in some things. :)
17:09 UtahDave cjh: yeah, we have an official ppa
17:09 cjh the multi-master feature in 16 is really awesome.
17:09 cjh UtahDave: ok i'll look it up
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17:09 UtahDave cjh: http://docs.saltstack.com/topics/installation/ubuntu.html
17:10 cjh awesome
17:10 cjh thanks
17:10 UtahDave you're welcome
17:10 Psi-Jack True. It's a cool idea. I have no /personal/ need for a multi-master salt, but I'm sure it could be useful in larger deployments, like maybe when my work switches to it.
17:10 Psi-Jack Wonder if ldap.search is not available because python.ldap wasn't installed..
17:10 cjh psi-jack: exactly.  larger installs will see the single master as a big problem
17:11 Psi-Jack Hmm, nope... Not an issue with python-ldap not being installed hmmm
17:11 UtahDave Psi-Jack: if you look in the __virtual__ function int he module it should indicate what it's looking for
17:12 Psi-Jack Oh.. HAS_LDAP.
17:12 Psi-Jack heh
17:14 Psi-Jack And ldapmostlist
17:14 UtahDave yeah, if you can import both of those in your python installation, then you should be good to go
17:15 Psi-Jack ldap.modlist is where I'm failing.. So far..
17:16 Psi-Jack And on my testing minion, I can in fact import those.
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17:18 Psi-Jack Ahh had to restart the minion.
17:20 ydavid hm would this work? http://zeromq.github.io/pyzmq/ssh.html
17:20 ydavid updating salt to support the new pyzmq ssh tunneling ?
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17:43 mgw \msg UtahDave
17:45 cjh psi-jack: that was painless.  5 mins and i have a working salt setup :D
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17:46 cdn Hi Dave, I had salt-minion working a few days ago but then did a clean windows minion build from yesterday's build and I get "ImportError: no module names fcntl". I noticed SSH was added, is all this supposed to be included in the windows salt-minion?
17:47 StDiluted all my minions broke on upgrade, had to manually restart the salt-minion proc
17:49 UtahDave cjh: :)
17:50 UtahDave cdn: So does the minion refuse to start?
17:50 cdn Yup, it just fails when I run it in debug
17:51 cdn I noticed that if I go to file: c:\salt\python27\Lib\site-packages\salt\ssh\shell.py  @line12: and comment #import salt.utils.nb_popen  it goes further. Thought I read somewhere that nb_open was not for Windows? I may be incorrect.
17:51 UtahDave cdn: Crud.  Can you open an issue with the stacktrace you're getting?
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17:59 cdn Sure, doing another clean install will try to get a clean set of info for this one and submit it.
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18:04 UtahDave thanks, cdn
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18:11 cdn Submitted (Issue #5969)
18:12 Thiggy I'm having some trouble using cp.get_dir, it's bombing out with a SaltReqTimeoutError: Waited 60 seconds. The logs don't seem to show anything super exciting…  Any protips? (details: https://gist.github.com/jthigpen/28dc8b38fbb0a50f6d88)
18:12 Thiggy cp.get_file for individual files in that dir works fine.
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18:12 luminous does saltstack run salt through travis ci, jenkins, or have automated testing involved in the release process?
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18:13 luminous maybe I am paranoid, but I am a bit hesitant to go near 0.16.0
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18:14 auser luminous: since it was released, I've only heard problems… maybe that's my skewed perspective on it though being only partially aware in the room
18:14 UtahDave luminous: salt runs our unit and integration tests through Travis.
18:15 UtahDave luminous: I do think that you should still follow good sysadmin practices and test it first before deploying it on your entire infrastructure.
18:17 luminous sure, though I'm beginning to feel a bit discontent with salt's seeming desire to chase features and refactors without improving the quality of releases. I think users are right to be cautiouus after the last 4 - 5 releases
18:17 UtahDave Thiggy: what version of Salt?
18:17 Thiggy 0.15.3
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18:17 UtahDave luminous: that's a critique we've gotten quite a bit and we've been working hard to improve on
18:17 luminous I would not feel the same if I saw a serious change in strategy with the outcome of the last few releases
18:18 UtahDave luminous: That's why we had a Release Candidate for 0.16.0. We hired another dev to work on improving our tests and qa process, among other things
18:18 luminous UtahDave: as a common user pushing hard for salt advocacy, I would greatly appreciate specific details on that type of hard work the team is investigating
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18:19 JasonSwindle UtahDave: That is awesome to hear
18:19 luminous s/investing
18:20 luminous UtahDave: how much did that improve the 0.16 release? conversely, how do we improve the process even more?
18:20 luminous I do not mean to be a jerk, that is not my intention here, but I am feeling the need to be highly critical of this situation
18:20 UtahDave luminous: we found and squashed quite a few bugs before releasing 0.16.0    it was our first RC, so I'm sure we can improve on it, but it was very helpful.
18:21 luminous a contractor I have working 100% with salt and states has just lost significant time due to the .16 release being buggy
18:21 UtahDave luminous: I understand. It's a valid criticism.
18:21 luminous UtahDave: that's great to hear. any changes to how tests are run, or automated testing infrastructure?
18:21 StDiluted luminous, specifically what did you run into
18:22 UtahDave luminous: yeah, what bugs in 0.16.0 have you run into?
18:22 luminous StDiluted: I would have to review the notes from the contractor, but a few nasty, hard to find bugs that were exposed as part of automated testing of the states
18:23 luminous changed how file descriptors are with cmd.run, is one
18:23 UtahDave luminous: well, we're making sure that each saltstack dev is watching to make sure our tests are passing when they make commits. One dev in particular is assigned to make sure it's always passing and track down the source of breakage.
18:25 UtahDave Increasing unit and integration test coverage is being improved as well.
18:25 luminous https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/5567
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18:25 luminous UtahDave: that's great to hear
18:25 luminous UtahDave: is there any automated testing using real world states or services?
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18:26 luminous my crew is interested in maintaining a server running tests against changes to our state tree(s)
18:27 luminous I'm curious if the team has setup anything similar, using real-world stuff
18:27 UtahDave our integration tests use some states. They create a master, a syndic and a minion and run some of the tests.
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18:27 luminous maybe salt-states repo has been improved? :P
18:27 UtahDave We have a developer working on a salt build system as well.
18:27 nliadm going to pimp this again, because I just added more features: https://github.com/hdonnay/saltctl
18:28 luminous hearing 'some states', I would lke to formally request the team invest in hitting that set of test harder with some big, bad ass states that seriously push the limits
18:28 auser nliadm: in go, nice!
18:28 auser I guess I can "pimp" this then too: https://github.com/auser/saltcli
18:29 auser salt command-line tool to bootstrap machines from a dev box
18:29 luminous given what we do, it should be pretty easy to add to such a set of states and evolve them as weird corner cases with specialty services are identified in the salt'd ecosystem
18:30 cdn I have a salt-develop.zip of and old build, anyone know how I can check inside it for the revision number of that build
18:30 nliadm auser: nice. I cooked mine up to play with salt-api, next step is a js app so that our support people can query a server's health
18:31 auser nliadm: nice. Want some help with that?
18:31 auser nliadm: I'm writing a book/screencast on AngularJS, so that's right in my wheelhouse
18:31 nliadm well, I kind of need to learn javascript
18:31 nliadm yeha
18:32 luminous UtahDave: it sounds like steps are being taken, which is great, and I'm not here to bash the team as much as push harder to find holes and see through some improvements, so I hope that the team can take this type of input without feeling the hit. that said, I think this is one of salt's weakpoints, particularly in the eyes of the community - think about all the people who do not know about what you just described.. sharing these details in a more p
18:33 UtahDave luminous: You're right.  I think to start with I'll send out an email to the mailing list describing this.
18:33 UtahDave luminous: thanks for the feedback.
18:34 nliadm auser: I started watching the egghead.io videos, is that a good resource?
18:34 auser nliadm: it is, most definitely
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18:39 wifigi I'm having issues getting a salt-master to send commands to a salt-syndic AND a salt-minion on the same machine. I have more details here: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/salt-users/_dr_OOIzzJY
18:40 JasonSwindle Here is an odd question.  Is there a tool to graph out the requires in all of the salt states of your project?
18:40 auser JasonSwindle: That'd be awesome
18:40 JasonSwindle My project is getting more and more complex, and the doc stage scaring me
18:41 JasonSwindle *is scaring me.  Cannot brain today
18:42 StDiluted is there a good doc on roles/environments anywhere?
18:42 JasonSwindle auser: I am going to see if I can find *something* to help in my process.
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18:43 auser StDiluted: if you can wait a week, I have been writing that part of our docs pretty heavily
18:43 auser should have those docs updated sooooooon
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18:44 StDiluted auser: well, I would definitely appreciate seeing them. I have to have at least part of this done before a week though. sprint goal.
18:44 auser StDiluted: sure, I'll see what I can do to get them up as soon as possible
18:44 StDiluted greatly appreciated
18:45 UtahDave JasonSwindle:   state.show_highstate and state.show_lowstate should help with that a bit.
18:46 JasonSwindle let me see
18:49 JasonSwindle my current salt setup is not online, so I am vagrant up-ing it
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18:59 Psi-Jack Aight. That meeting's over. Now to continue salt.
19:00 rustyrazorblade joined #salt
19:00 Psi-Jack Hmmm.
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19:00 Psi-Jack Why.. Why... Why does ldap.search need a binddn? I just want it to be anonymous?
19:05 StDiluted grrr, why the hell are EC2 tags not included in metadata
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19:09 JasonSwindle UtahDave: show state is neat, but I still need to make this into something anyone can read and image
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19:19 Ryan_Lane I see that random was added to cron, which is great
19:19 Ryan_Lane is there a way to say "make this run twice per hour, randomly?
19:19 Ryan_Lane I guess I could just add the job twice, but that's a little ugly
19:20 UtahDave StDiluted: there's an ec2 grains module in the salt-contrib repo
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19:20 UtahDave Ryan_Lane: I'm not sure. I haven't used that feature yet.
19:20 * Ryan_Lane nods
19:20 Ryan_Lane it's brand new
19:20 UtahDave yep
19:21 Ryan_Lane looks like just the random keyword is valid
19:21 Ryan_Lane guess I'll enter that job twice for now
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19:28 Psi-Jack So, any idea why I can't do an ldap.search anonymously? I mean, ldapsearch -x itself works just fine with the openldap-clients in. Anonymous searches are allowed, with restricted results, but enough to be usable.
19:30 Psi-Jack with ldap.search on a salt command for one host, I get back: ERROR: Failed to bind to LDAP server ldap1.domain.com:11389 as None
19:30 UtahDave Psi-Jack: I'm not sure. I don't know if the person who contributed it had added a way to do that.
19:30 Psi-Jack Hmmm.
19:31 Psi-Jack But, all in that ldapmod.py, so I guess I'll take a look, when I have time. Which isn't now, unfortunately.
19:31 UtahDave cool
19:31 Psi-Jack If I do see it's not, is salt on github or something, where I could clone it, change what's needed, and submit a pull request?
19:32 Psi-Jack Or some other means? :)
19:32 UtahDave Psi-Jack: yep!   https://github.com/saltstack/salt
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19:32 Psi-Jack Cool. Works for me. I can even use bitbucket for that. :)
19:33 UtahDave Psi-Jack: we'd love any help you can with that.
19:33 Psi-Jack UtahDave: Well, I use LDAP, even at /home/, so, it's a component I need working. :)
19:34 UtahDave Psi-Jack: cool!  Yeah, we don't use it here internally yet.
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19:34 Psi-Jack Heh,
19:35 Psi-Jack That is one of the reasons I like Salt.. Python, a language I've recently learned pretty well (not great, but well so far), and I like the language very much. I just hate some aspects of it which is version conflicts it has has which is kind of sad.
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19:43 madduck has anyone considered the idea of running pillar data itself through jinja, such that pillar data can reference other pillar data?
19:43 madduck not during definition, because the referee might not be defined yet, but on demand, i.e. when a pillar variable is accessed…
19:45 UtahDave madduck: so use the pillar data as the source for the  - contents  variable on a file.managed, for example?
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19:46 mgw madduck: I have a patch for that
19:46 mgw it buids up the pillar one sls at a time
19:47 mgw which is not quite what you're saying
19:47 mgw I think you're saying to run it through jinja twice?
19:47 mgw the sls once, and then the data
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19:49 StDiluted anyone have any ideas on how to access an EC2 tag as a grain?
19:49 StDiluted or am I going to have to put my EC2 auth info on each instance
19:49 mgw is it part of the userdata?
19:50 StDiluted no, it's not in user data or meta-data
19:50 UtahDave StDiluted: have you looked at the ec2 grain in the salt-contrib repo?
19:50 StDiluted yes, it doesn't contain the tags
19:50 StDiluted looks like it calls the meta-data
19:50 luminous UtahDave: thank you too!
19:50 StDiluted it's good info but doesn't have what I really want
19:51 mgw If the tags are not in meta-data, you'll probably have to push tags into pillar or create grains externally
19:51 drdran joined #salt
19:51 mgw With the help of boto and salt it should be fairly straightforward
19:51 StDiluted hm, guess I need to look at boot then
19:52 StDiluted boto*
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19:52 mgw StDiluted: There are other tools, that's just what I'm familiar with. It's a python library
19:52 ahammond anyone know about saltstarters.org? I'd like to add some repositories from work (that aren't mine).
19:53 StDiluted sure. what I'm trying to avoid is having my EC2 creeds on all the servers in my stack
19:53 StDiluted creds*
19:53 mgw StDiluted: That should be possible, as long as you're ok with your salt master having the creds
19:53 ruimarinho UtahDave, any reason for nested keys not working with this syntax? salt '*' pillar.data 'ssh:known_hosts'
19:54 StDiluted mgw: yeah, seems like that's going to have to be how it is
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20:00 madduck UtahDave: being able to define a pillar data like motd_greeting that contains grains.fqdn and pillar.regional_greeting ;)
20:01 madduck mgw: yeah, not what I am talking about building up pillar one sls at a time (I am using reclass, not sls files)
20:01 madduck mgw: yeah, maybe Jinja2 on the pillar data, maybe something else.
20:01 mrj Anyone know if any work on an IIS module is being done? im assuming the only method right now is app cmds to manage IIS
20:01 madduck It would need to preserve types. This is what Ansible fucks up.
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20:03 mgw I think jinja + yaml messes with it at least
20:03 mgw e.g., you have to jump through hoops (I think) if you have a list of, say, users in pillar
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20:03 mgw and you want to use that same list in your states
20:04 mgw madduck: Is that the sort of thing your'e talking about?
20:04 mr_chris I'm attempting to group install the centos development tools with salt. I see http://docs.saltstack.com/ref/modules/all/salt.modules.yumpkg.html but I'm still unsure on how to write an sls file that installs the group "Development Tools".
20:04 mgw (problem)
20:05 ruimarinho how is it possible for saltutil.refresh_pillar return None for a given minion?
20:05 madduck mgw: yeah, exactly; ansible doesn't do this. This thread is what got me kicked from Ansible's community because I was "making this place not nice" (i.e. pointing out too many faults): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/ansible-project/FmCn-MINh1U
20:06 mgw madduck: yep, but you don't have to use jinja with salt
20:06 madduck (obviously the author's final response on the issue is nonsense)
20:06 mgw I didn't read that far ;-)
20:07 mgw oh, only response
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20:07 madduck mgw: it's the default, and I wouldn't want to overload the inline syntax…
20:07 madduck {{#mako: foo.bar}}
20:07 madduck no way.
20:07 luminous madduck: hey, I haven't (yet) found time to play with reclass on saltyet, but I'm curious how your work to hook it into pillar has gone?
20:07 mgw agreed
20:07 madduck apart, a leading { means it needs to be quoted.
20:08 mgw unfortunately, I think the problem here is jinja
20:08 madduck luminous: it's done and the adapters are integrated into salt develop
20:08 luminous sweeet
20:08 madduck mgw: and all other templating engines
20:08 mrj i guess another question.. anybody managing a decent sized windows environment with salt? i started messing with it today as opposed to chef
20:08 luminous so defining it as a ext_pillar is way easy ?
20:08 madduck mgw: except: http://slexy.org/raw/s2XS3r3t6b
20:08 madduck luminous: trivial. https://github.com/madduck/reclass/blob/master/README.Salt
20:08 luminous you rock
20:09 madduck mgw: the problem is that this works for shallow dependencies, but if you try to reference a key whose value also references another key, then you are stuck
20:09 madduck luminous: I am looking forward to feedback!
20:09 madduck luminous: there is #reclass/oftc too, but I think we can talk here until we get told not to. ;)
20:10 madduck reclass is indeed very nice. I don't understand how people can do things differently. ;)
20:10 mgw madduck: looking at it now, it looks like a better version of what I started to homebrew
20:11 madduck define "it" ?
20:11 madduck reclass? the templating thing?
20:11 mgw reclass, sorry
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20:12 madduck oh, sweet. well, I do have a 6 years headstart. ;)
20:12 madduck that said, I did just rewrite it all.
20:12 madduck mgw: https://github.com/madduck/reclass/blob/master/README.Salt at the bottom also explains why I want templating. ;)
20:13 madduck i hope the docs are up-to-date and understandable. would be useful to get feedback as I lack the necessary distance…
20:14 madduck also, if there are any illuminating moments, I'd like to know about and document them…
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20:14 luminous madduck: yea, I'll need to review our last few emails on the ML to remind myeslf what I had in mind
20:17 madduck Once I get 3 or 4 people testing and writing in, I will write up a "formal introduction" to the mailing list.
20:17 madduck luminous: also, thank Tom Hatch for merging my pull requests so quickly.
20:17 madduck it's not in 0.16, but it will be in 0.17.
20:18 mgw madduck: as for running the pillar through jinja — I think this could be done easily
20:20 madduck mgw: yeah, and preserving types too?
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20:20 mgw not so sure about that
20:20 qx hey all :)
20:21 mgw ext_pillar can *modify* the pillar, not just add to it
20:21 mgw so you'd just need another ext_pillar that flattens the pillar data, templates, and then reloads. But probably losing types....
20:21 qx Ha a quick q. Is it possible for file.exists to trigger a command? For example, if file X doesn't exist, run a certain command. I've got some binaries I need to check / install for that aren't packages.
20:22 mgw qx: are you on a *nix system?
20:23 qx mgw, yeah, sorry
20:23 mgw qx: use onlyif
20:23 madduck mgw: *excellent* pointer.
20:23 mgw onlyif: [ -e /your/binary ]
20:23 mgw or negate it
20:24 madduck mgw: otoh, I was rather hoping not to have to traverse the pillar, but get it done on-demand…
20:24 madduck for performance…
20:24 mgw madduck: yeah, performance might be bad
20:24 madduck doubtful, really, but still.
20:24 qx mgw, ah, awesome. Thanks. I was coming about it from a file POV, isntead of a command POV :D
20:24 madduck it would feel wrong.
20:25 mgw madduck: that too
20:25 mgw and when things feel wrong… they tend to come back to bite
20:25 madduck anyway, there is a way to make PyYaml emit custom class instances on regexp match and those would effectively be lazy resolvers…
20:25 mgw madduck: that might be more efficient
20:25 madduck so the pillar would not contain '${foo.bar}' as a value, but LazyResolver('foo.bar')
20:25 mgw if you could identify elements that need templating
20:26 mgw oh
20:26 mgw i see
20:26 madduck the problem is that I don't know how to tell LazyResolver about the environment at time of execution
20:26 madduck yaml.add_implicit_resolver would be the place where to define a regexp (to match "${…}") on YAML data to call my own constructor and effectively create the dict with my own class instances  where interpolation is required.
20:26 mgw So you're thinking not to use jinja, but rather something homegrown?
20:26 madduck I'd rather not.
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20:27 mgw can pyyaml find values that match a regex?
20:27 madduck you say "and when things feel wrong… they tend to come back to bite" and I say that an invented wheel should be used even if it mightn't be all round…
20:27 madduck mgw: yeah, yaml.add_implicit_resolver
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20:28 madduck http://pyyaml.org/wiki/PyYAMLDocumentation#YAMLsyntax and scroll up just a bit
20:28 mgw in that case, do a regex on \{\{*.\}\} or some such
20:28 mgw looking
20:28 madduck yeah
20:29 madduck but still, then you have a LazyResolver instance and two unsolved problems:
20:29 mgw yeah, this isn't what I thought
20:29 madduck 1. you can't really intercept when someone just wants to use that value
20:30 madduck 2. you don't have access to grains, pillar, env, whatever then.
20:30 mgw looking at a different angle, forget yaml
20:30 mgw ext_pillar emits python dict
20:30 mgw and consumes it as well
20:30 mgw so yaml *shouldn't* even be involved here
20:30 madduck ideally, not.
20:30 mgw if you want to chain ext_pillar at least
20:31 mgw traversing dicts is pretty fast
20:31 madduck it can get nasty and you do end up reimplementing templating-wheels
20:31 madduck dicts are unordered
20:32 madduck so you need either a two-pass algorithm that first maps out the dependency graph and then does a resolution in topological order
20:32 madduck or you need to iteratively repeat the process until there are no more references left.
20:32 mgw yeah, if you want to be able to nest references
20:32 madduck and in both cases, it'll be really hard to guard against — and only against true — infinite loops.
20:32 mgw I was thinking in terms of a single pass
20:32 madduck if, then do it right! come on! ;)
20:33 mgw just use an arbitrary maximum recursion depth ;-)
20:33 madduck like the relative mass of NaCl?
20:33 mgw sure
20:33 madduck or the number of electrons per molecule?
20:34 mgw honestly, though, I don't think you'd want to support very deep recursion
20:34 madduck mgw: no, doing it right is not about introducing arbitrary pitfalls! ;)
20:34 madduck there is that too, of course
20:34 mgw mgw: so you want to allow a user to shoot himself but having 1000 deep recursion?
20:34 madduck there could/should be an optional max depth, but the algorithm needn't depend on it. that would feel wrong to me in some ways…
20:34 mgw s/but/by
20:34 mgw sure, it could be an option
20:35 mgw defaulting to something salty
20:35 madduck if the user wants it, yes. 1000 recursions. it's not like this is time-critical stuff.
20:35 luminous madduck: will do!
20:35 madduck and remember: on-demand only. not on every pillar run
20:35 madduck luminous: \o/
20:35 luminous (RE thanks and tests/write in)
20:36 mgw madduck: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/380734/how-to-do-this-python-dictionary-traverse-and-search
20:36 mgw I wonder how horribly slow that would be
20:36 madduck mgw: reclass already does recursive dict merging…
20:36 mgw is it slow?
20:37 luminous madduck: is too good to let it be slow ;)
20:37 luminous errr
20:37 luminous drop the :
20:37 luminous :P
20:37 madduck mgw: I don't think so, but it does things like the stackoverflow code, e.g. elif type(aDict[k]) != dict:
20:37 madduck not quite as explicitly horrible, but implicitly horrible, I'll let you decide what's worse…
20:38 madduck https://github.com/madduck/reclass/blob/master/reclass/mergers/dict/recursive_policy_update.py#L19-L36 ;)
20:39 luminous recursive dictionary merging is inherently horrible
20:40 madduck it's a problem with many solutions.
20:40 mgw better than many problems with no solutions
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20:52 madduck mgw: I don't know. If there are no solutions, I wouldn't start working on it. If there are many solutions, I'll work on it longer. Your call. ;)
20:53 madduck mgw: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3738381/what-do-i-do-when-i-need-a-self-referential-dictionary, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15988626/python-self-referential-dictionary-with-class, …
20:55 mgw the first one is rather interesting idea
20:57 madduck mgw: it only works for shallow data, i.e. one-shot replacement, no recursion.
20:57 Kamal_ I just wanted to say this: saltstack is awesome.
20:58 madduck it's essentially the same as dumping the dict to yaml, running jinja, and rereading the result from yaml
20:58 madduck mgw: anyway, bed time ;)
20:58 StDiluted man i wish i knew python better
20:58 Kamal_ man i wish i knew python
20:58 bfrog looks like the minion connects to the master, and waits for the master to accept the key
20:58 madduck mgw: (this string-replacement approach is what reclass v0.001 or so did in 2007 ;)
20:58 bfrog but on the master salt-key -L gives nothing
20:58 bfrog nothing is waiting ?
20:59 Kamal_ bfrog: is there an existing minion with the same id/hostname?
20:59 madduck StDiluted: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/ is a great tutorial.
20:59 madduck Kamal_: ^^ ;)
20:59 Kamal_ thanks
20:59 bfrog I never set a hostname on the minion
21:00 bfrog its just a fresh fedora install (localhost)
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21:01 madduck yay fedora
21:01 StDiluted madduck: thanks. I know a bit, it's just I'm trying to do some stuff I'm new at
21:01 bfrog oh I can set an id though
21:01 * madduck forcefully carries himself to bed
21:01 mgw bfrog: yes, in the minion config
21:01 UtahDave bfrog: have you opened up the master's ports in your iptables config?
21:02 mgw every minion needs a unique id
21:02 bfrog is tis there a way to not have to do that?
21:02 bfrog UtahDave: yeah, it connects
21:02 bfrog I can telnet
21:02 bfrog telnet saltmaster 4505 etc
21:02 mgw bfrog: you can set the hostname instead and it will use that as  your id — but either the id: needs to be set or the hostname needs to be unique
21:03 bfrog I guess thats just a setup step for things then
21:03 bfrog ok
21:03 bfrog can I update the minion config later then based on that, adding info about that node
21:04 bfrog like node xyz connects, I decide I want it to be a node running redis
21:04 bfrog set some grain info about that node then
21:05 StDiluted that's where I'm trying to figure out best practice as well, bfrog
21:05 StDiluted best way to set roles/environments
21:06 UtahDave bfrog: That's a common way of doing that.  People will often set a "roles" grain
21:07 StDiluted UtahDave, so is it best to set that manually in the minion files, or would you say it's best to set that as a managed file on the minions?
21:07 bfrog UtahDave: does salt maintain backward compat well?
21:08 luminous for not being 1.0+, yea
21:08 bfrog fair enoguh
21:08 UtahDave bfrog: We try to keep the master compatible with older minions as best we can.  You should make sure your master is as new or newer than your minions, though
21:11 bfrog I guess thats just a downside of the server/client setup in general
21:11 UtahDave yeah
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21:12 UtahDave StDiluted: It really depends on how you like to manage things. You can set the grains from the master:   salt '<minion-name>' grains.setval role redis_server
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21:14 madduck mgw: I was brushing my teeth, my mind was racing, and I had to come back…
21:14 madduck The solution is much simpler, and two-fold if I want to solve the problem in reclass independently:
21:15 madduck 1. pillar is currently a dict(), so create a new class PillarDict(dict) that gets constructed with references to grains, opts, whatever, and which overrides __getvalue__. In there, while the value is a string m
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21:15 madduck atching a regexp, recurse to resolve, then return the result;
21:15 madduck 2. reclass should get an option interpolation_depth and walk the dictionary n times. String interpolation returns strings, so no. But this won't be hard to do.
21:15 madduck My responses to those two points:
21:15 mr_chris left #salt
21:15 madduck 1. expect a pull request next week;
21:15 madduck 2. maybe. ;)
21:15 madduck Good night, now once and for all.
21:15 mgw good night madduck!
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21:46 StDiluted anyone awake that knows python?
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21:48 luminous StDiluted: what's your queestion?
21:49 luminous throwing your question out there may elict a better response
21:49 StDiluted well, I've got a list of instances and their tags i got using boto
21:49 luminous there is also always #python
21:49 StDiluted yeah my nick is not registered because ei can't remember the password
21:49 StDiluted heh
21:49 luminous solve that problem :)
21:49 StDiluted so given a list that looks like
21:49 luminous go into #freenode and ask for reset to email
21:49 StDiluted instance:       tag1, tag2, tag3
21:49 luminous but keep going
21:50 luminous O.o
21:50 StDiluted what would be the best way to turn that into roles for use in grains
21:50 luminous first, I wouldn't put roles in grains. put them in pillar, way more flexible for use with roles
21:51 StDiluted ok
21:51 luminous at least, that is my opinion on the matter
21:51 StDiluted some machines have a single role, some have multiples separated with commas
21:51 luminous and I there's some technical justification - grains are set at minion startup and can't change without a minion restart
21:51 luminous my roles may change, and I don't want to restar the minion for that
21:52 StDiluted well, honestly that would be fine but i don't want to put my AWS creeds on all the machines along with boto
21:52 StDiluted creds*
21:52 luminous second, you would need to paste some code in a dpaste.de or similar to provide context for this
21:52 luminous StDiluted: why would putting roles in pillar do that???
21:52 StDiluted no, putting them in a pillar wouldnt
21:53 StDiluted putting them into programmatically defined grains on each minion would
21:53 luminous so I'm confused then..
21:53 StDiluted I'm saying I'd rather put them in a pillar
21:53 StDiluted or somewhere like that
21:53 luminous yea, you should put pretty much all details for your minions in pillar
21:53 luminous that is the point of pillar
21:53 StDiluted yeah
21:53 luminous it's minion-specific, and it's easy and flexible towork with
21:53 luminous far more so than grais
21:54 luminous like you can source pillar from yaml, heira, postgres, mongo, reclass, etc,etc
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21:58 StDiluted so given a list like beta-all1: web,app,api,db,ops,mail,worker,cron,admin
21:58 StDiluted I'm trying to figure out how to structure a pillar for that data
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22:18 ruimarinho is there any best practices guide for structuring pillar data?
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22:44 raccoon_ hey everyone... how can i (in a state file) test if a certain grain exists; before testing against the value of it+
22:44 raccoon_ s/\+/?/
22:45 raccoon_ the standard if conditional (using the template language) bails if it doesnt exist for a node
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22:48 hazzadous @raccoon_ is this just a matter of using grain.get('somegrain', defaultval) ?
22:48 hazzadous *grains
22:48 raccoon_ oh
22:49 raccoon_ i currently do {% if grains['var'] %}
22:49 raccoon_ let me try that one instead
22:49 hazzadous so you could either use get, or add an if 'somegrain' in grains
22:52 raccoon_ that worked like a charm (changed 'grain' to 'grains' (plural)); thanks!
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23:01 hazzadous anyone, are there docs on what is in the templating context?
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23:24 bdf ok so I'm trying to push a /etc/salt/minion config file out via a file template, but I'd like master: to be localhost if the machine is a master rather than salt.mydomain.com
23:24 bdf what's the best way to do that?
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23:30 hazzadous bdf: what makes your master special?  do you have a grain set that you can conditional on?
23:31 bdf unfortunately nothing at the moment, because it's just an ec2 instance
23:31 bdf I could make something up, I was just hoping for something more built-in
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23:33 hazzadous well your going to have to have something that marks your master as a master.  I don't think theres anything built in to say 'I'm a master'
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23:33 bdf yeah, I'll just do that, but I was just checking against reinventing the wheel first
23:34 joshe can't you just set the master name in the master's minion config to be 'localhost'?
23:34 hazzadous well I assume its being managed by a state so...
23:34 bdf yeah
23:35 bdf so it just gets blown away
23:35 joshe oh
23:35 joshe set a grain then
23:35 joshe either a static one in the minion config, or a little grain module that figures it out somehow
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23:36 joshe then conditionalize that part of the config based on the grain
23:36 bdf well the minion config again, is managed by a state :) and sure, eventually it will be populated by things like salt-cloud and others
23:37 bdf I know it's possible to mark the master somehow, I was just hoping for a built-in / shortcut / official way of doing this
23:37 joshe so?
23:37 bdf and the tools for making that for me are all there, just not as official-feeling
23:37 joshe I thought cleverly managing configuration files was the point of salt states :)
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23:52 hazzadous bdf: yeah not sure there is one.  topologies are potentially complex, I may be a master, but perhaps not your master etc.  I suppose I know potentially the master I'm communing with, perhaps minion master config is available in the template context and perhaps I can check if I resolve to the same address but sounds like a lot of what ifs.  grain or nodegroup sound like the most feasible routes
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