Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2013-12-01

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00:18 stephas bash: git-upload-pack: command not found
00:19 honestly stephas: install git?
00:19 stephas # which git-upload-pack /usr/bin/git-upload-pack
00:20 stephas thanks for the response
00:20 stephas I am wondering if there is a known issue, a quick google did not turn up anything
00:21 stephas I am trying to apply a salt state with git.latest
00:21 stephas also using the identity file argument
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00:21 stephas sorry. I think it must be my bet...
00:22 stephas git cloning gave me the same errg
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00:37 stephas oh. git-upload-pack is not where expected on the remote end, cause it is a freenas box... thx
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02:51 jeddi I've got a stack of pkg.latest (and similar) stanzas, but I'm curious what the best practice is to do effect an 'apt-get update && apt-get upgrade' to my debian minions - is it just running tohse via a cmd.run, or something more sophisticated?
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03:25 forrest_ jeddi, currently the best way I know of is to just use cmd.run, when you install packages it will run an apt-get update, however since apt-get upgrade is a pretty dangerous command, you'd have to use cmd.run forit.
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04:12 jeddi forrest_: yeah, that's what i thought might be the best way still :)  (I started looking at trying to do this via salt back at 0.15 and put it off for a while)
04:12 forrest_ yea generally you don't want your config management solution to do an 'update all the things' unless it's over in it's own state that you specifically call or something since it can break things so badly
04:13 jeddi forrest_: and i ack that upgrade is potentiallyd angerous - more so for the ubuntu folks running a pretty safe debian stable + security combo.
04:13 forrest_ yea
04:14 jeddi i reason i have upgrades going on on several dozen packages (and their dependencies, by extension) whenever i do a highstate .. and i don't *really* look too closely in any case.
04:14 forrest_ Yea if you're ok with that risk, then it's all up to you
04:15 jeddi so might as well let salt upgrade all the things while it's there.  i'll look more closely the first few times. :)   i guess it's similar to that area where things like salt and fabric step on each other's toes.
04:15 * jeddi loves a bit o' risk.
04:15 forrest_ heh
04:15 jeddi forrest_: thanks for your thoughts on this, btw.
04:15 forrest_ yea np
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05:46 robawt aloha gentlefolk
05:47 robawt i've seen this before but this is stumping me: a masterless minions binary files (text-based config files ok) are all 0 size
05:47 robawt is there a flag missing?
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05:50 forrest robawt, do you mean the actual salt minion config files?
05:55 robawt forrest: in this case it's a jar file that is always 0 length in size
05:55 forrest once it's on the server it's 0?
05:55 robawt but all of my config files seem to transfer to the virtual host (vagrant + salt) a-ok
05:55 robawt yes
05:55 robawt btw wuddup forrest
05:55 robawt :)
05:55 forrest another fantastic saturday evening
05:55 robawt yeah a good fight is on
05:55 robawt TUF season finale
05:56 forrest Ahh not really into that stuff, I wish there had been a good show to go to tonight, but with the holiday it wasn't great :\
05:56 forrest so the file is ok when it's within the files dir on the masterless minion, but once it applies the state that manages the file, it's 0 bytes?
05:57 robawt yes
05:57 robawt but the original is still ok
05:57 forrest odd, are you just using file.managed?
05:57 robawt yessir
05:57 forrest odd, what options are you using?
05:57 forrest seems weird it would get screwed up on a masterless minion of all things
05:58 robawt forrest: https://gist.github.com/bmess/9474f6a0a16f0ac17caa
05:59 forrest I assume pillar['logstash']['flatjar']['path'] somehow populates the salt:// on there?
05:59 forrest err nevermind
05:59 forrest wait, where is your source?
05:59 robawt yessir
05:59 forrest - source: salt://path_to_jar?
06:00 robawt FSCK
06:00 robawt forrest: thank you for allowing me to see the obvious
06:00 forrest lol
06:00 forrest This is why they pay me the big bucks :P
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06:02 robawt forrest: i think you're up to two beers with me now
06:02 forrest wooooo
06:02 forrest I'll admit, not much of an alcohol person
06:02 forrest Germany spoiled me for beer a bit :(
06:02 robawt well there's always coffee and tea
06:02 forrest that's true, I do love tea
06:03 robawt a few of my coworkers are extremely well versed in tea, I'll get some names before I go to any conferences this year
06:03 forrest hah, cool
06:03 forrest I usually just buy some loose leaf stuff I really like from a local spot
06:04 forrest I had a coworker at a previous job who would bring it back for me from China, I miss that stuff :\
06:04 robawt underground tea eh?
06:04 forrest oh no
06:05 forrest he'd go to one of the places he really liked and get suitcases full, they'd pack the bags in front of him because he was dropping something like 1k USD on tea
06:05 robawt yeah but it's always better to buy in bulk
06:05 forrest yea
06:07 robawt it never ends with config management
06:07 robawt as soon as something works you think "yeah well i could clean up this salt state, maybe break it down"
06:07 forrest then you break it
06:09 robawt forrest: yeah well there's that
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06:12 robawt hell yeah
06:12 robawt forrest: you're the man
06:12 forrest heh
06:12 robawt my fancy logstash + agent + all the things is jammin'
06:12 forrest yea I looked at that the first time and thought your name was the source :P
06:12 forrest nice
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06:38 robawt forrest: you're not right just yet
06:38 robawt making it better and not breaking anything yet
06:38 robawt :D
06:38 forrest heh
06:38 * robawt is in the danger zone
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07:02 forrest Sven, are you in here? You posted this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/salt-users/BR84R_OhAuc
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08:13 napse I'm trying to use docker/dockerio after building from source developer branch...
08:14 napse each docker/dockerio directive in the sls fails with "in sls ... is unavailable"
08:15 napse Should I raise an issue for this on Github or am I misreading the error?
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16:33 Psi-Jack Curious, if someone could take a look at this, and tell me if this looks like for a salt state auto-include: http://paste.linux-help.org/view/9e1cc153     The goal is for systems in the "mailservers" role to include postfix.server, and every other system to include the relay (for internal relaying to the smarthost)  And only, for not, for CentOS servers. I need to finish with the Debian version before I can open it up.
16:34 Psi-Jack My goal with this is to just include postfix in my top.sls and have it work on '*' hosts. :)
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17:21 green_salter Hello, fellow salters. I've deployed Salt v16.3 on about 100 Windows minions in a mobile environment using 3G modems. My goal is to be able to have these 100 units install Python 3.3.2. I've gotten a successful test with one unit using the winrepo module, but I'm now running into some field-test issues where the downloads are stopping before they are complete, and thus the installers fail.
17:22 green_salter Can anyone please tell me if there a simple way to remedy this in Salt?
17:24 green_salter Or, if not, can anyone give me a few simple recommendations on how to approach this problem next?
17:26 shadowsun This is probably fairly old-school
17:26 shadowsun But you might try writing a small script that uses SEXYZ file transfer protocol and checks the md5sum to re-continue the download until it's done
17:27 shadowsun It's the most bandwidth-friendly way I can think of, but it probably wouldn't be trivial
17:28 shadowsun (Also adds an additional layer of error checking)
17:29 green_salter Thanks, shadowsun, i will definitely look into that. Luckily I have a few devs at my disposal, so maybe we can make that happen.
17:30 joehh green_salter: I suspect you don't have somewhere closer to your minions to host your files?
17:30 joehh we tend to use rsync to transfer installers etc to the master (which is close to the minions) then download from there
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17:31 shadowsun joehh: You're using cellular modems too?
17:31 green_salter joehh: Right, we're hosting the installers from the master.
17:31 joehh but that may not be appropriate unless you do as shadowsun suggested and rsync/etc them to the minion
17:32 joehh shadowsun: no, but we have limited upstream bandwidth and find caching at the site is the only effective way to go
17:32 shadowsun joehh: Yeah, I hear that.
17:33 shadowsun I'm just afraid that his actual problem is going to turn out to be the cell connections themselves
17:33 joehh a cellular modem (4g) gives us greater bandwidth than we typically have available
17:33 joehh yeah
17:33 shadowsun Yeah, except they love to drop out
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17:34 green_salter Oh, okay, I see. So I will look into rsync first, but I think shadowsun may be right. We've had issues with these modems before.
17:35 shadowsun rsync might well do it, it does lots
17:35 shadowsun I'm just not sure how well it works over long-haul lossy links
17:35 shadowsun whereas sexyz is a protocol developed from protocols designed to download over lossy links such as telephone lines without any underlying nice protocol like TCP
17:36 shadowsun I really don't know which one will do the trick for you :)
17:36 joehh I was wondering if sexyz was a protocol or a placeholder for "your favorite protocol of the day".
17:36 shadowsun lol nope
17:36 shadowsun It's the descendant of X/Y/ZModem
17:37 shadowsun http://synchro.net/docs/sexyz.txt
17:37 green_salter Hopefully one or the other, or it's back to the drawing board! Thank you both for pointing me in some new directions.
17:38 shadowsun Welcome! Hope it helps. :)
17:38 green_salter One last question: is there an rsync built into Salt?
17:38 shadowsun Eh, rsync would be an installable program...
17:38 green_salter Right. Just making sure. Thank you!
17:38 * shadowsun rummages for a link
17:39 shadowsun http://rsync.samba.org/
17:39 shadowsun http://itefix.no/cwrsync/ for windows
17:40 shadowsun of course, using sexyz also would require installations
17:40 shadowsun But a smaller file is going to be more successful
17:40 shadowsun you end up back at some small shell script ... in bash I'd do it like so
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17:42 shadowsun until [[ "$(md5sum filename)" == "known good hash" ]]; do wget URI; sleep 10; done;
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17:43 shadowsun Hopefully powershell has similar functionality
17:43 shadowsun since unix shells aren't generally available on windows ;)
17:43 Psi-Jack Why.. on earth, do you need X/Y/Z Modem?
17:44 green_salter Ah, life would be easier. Thank you very much for the links and script example.
17:45 shadowsun Psi-Jack: Because dealing with slow, high-latency intermittent lossy links is an absolute pain
17:46 shadowsun I'm not even saying it's the right answer, just a possible answer
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17:47 Psi-Jack Zmodem wouldn't even help with that. in fact, it would just make it worse.
17:49 shadowsun How so? It's kind of the problem it was designed to address
17:49 Psi-Jack TCP also has built-in checksumming that is more improved than the even older X, Y, and Z modem protocols.
17:50 shadowsun Indeed.
17:51 shadowsun And depending on the stack implementation it works great.
17:51 shadowsun I already acknowledged that...
17:55 shadowsun I ran into a corner case a couple years back when I was working as a network engineer
17:56 shadowsun Long story short, proprietary vendor-required stuff for the device resulted in error checking being handled improperly
17:57 shadowsun Like I said, I'm not even sure that SEXYZ type stuff is the correct answer here, but when he's dealing with A) Windows and B) Cell modems, it would catch a lot of corner cases that he may actually encounter
17:57 * shadowsun shrugs
17:57 Psi-Jack No, no he wouldn't.
17:58 Psi-Jack There's no reason to use those old transfer protocols that were designed for dial-up modems in a TCP based infrastructure.
17:58 shadowsun *as long as* TCP error checking is handled correctly
17:59 green_salter And I'm assuming TCP error checking isn't handled well in Windows?
17:59 shadowsun It's usually handled great
17:59 shadowsun But like I said, I ran into a device that was using its own stack and doing it wrong
17:59 shadowsun <--- excessively paranoid
17:59 Psi-Jack green_salter: Actually, Windows' TCP stack is usually pretty solid.
17:59 shadowsun ^^ exactly
18:00 green_salter Should these minions be able to determine that the installer wasn't downloaded properly then?
18:01 shadowsun It should be handled at the protocol level and the minions should be unable to receive corrupt data
18:01 shadowsun "should" is a wonderful word
18:01 shadowsun But as Psi-Jack has pointed out, I make my living working in the area where "should" is usually not the case
18:02 shadowsun So I tend to have an approach that's more suited for "Everything has gone wrong" than "Everything's working correctly"
18:02 Psi-Jack And I am a former multi-node BBS and regional fidonet hub sysop. :)
18:03 shadowsun Ahhh, those were the days
18:03 shadowsun My town was to small to run anything that big, but I had a lot of fun with renegade :)
18:03 Psi-Jack Heh, I tried many, but I ended up with RemoteAccess and lots of custom-made tools for it that i wrote myself. I was one of the most custom-modded RA BBS's in the world. :)
18:04 shadowsun lol I ran that for awhile too :)
18:04 shadowsun The only one I didn't actually use was Wildcat, but some of the more established ones run by people who were old enough to have jobs did
18:05 Psi-Jack Eww, I couldn't stand Wildcat.
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18:06 shadowsun lol
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18:06 shadowsun Gizmo swore by it
18:07 shadowsun He was an ex-IBM guy, though, and they tend to be... odd in my experience.
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18:13 shadowsun Odd isn't quite the right word.
18:13 shadowsun Eccentric might be better.
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18:20 khaije|io is there a way to run a specific salt formula from salt-call ?
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18:22 joehh shadowsun, Psi-Jack: interesting thoughts - a few years back we had to do some offshore work with 3g cards on windows laptops
18:22 joehh anything running over udp worked great
18:22 joehh anything running on tcp was a pain in the neck and would have frequenct freezes
18:23 joehh probably related to the card rather than the windows tcp stack though
18:24 shadowsun joehh: It could be; I've run into some other problems that cause the same thing
18:24 shadowsun It's pretty rare though
18:25 shadowsun UDP doesn't really have error checking like TCP does though
18:25 shadowsun TCP will retransmit a packet over and over until one passes the error check
18:25 shadowsun UDP (at the protocol level) doesn't know or even care if packets are being lost
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18:43 Bagirek Hi.
18:45 Bagirek I think, I found a bug. Under FreeBSD 9.2 amd64 with saltstack 0.17.2 with pkgng it tries to use illegal option
18:45 Bagirek Command '/usr/sbin/pkg install -y -L sudo' failed with return code: 64
18:45 Bagirek stderr: pkg: illegal option -- L
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18:46 goodwill Bagirek: probably best to report it here: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues
18:47 Bagirek goodwill: Sorry, I am lazy to register on github...
18:48 goodwill :)
18:48 goodwill its ok
18:48 goodwill we still love you
18:49 goodwill :)
18:49 Bagirek :)
18:50 goodwill but I am not part of salt
18:50 goodwill so I guess unless someone else files this
18:50 goodwill it will probably continue to be a problem :)
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18:51 Bagirek Yeah, probably..
18:51 goodwill :-D
18:53 shadowsun Registering for a git hub account is... so easy and free.
18:54 shadowsun But.. BSD users have always been set in their ways, so I guess there's no hope for it....
18:54 shadowsun *ducks and runs like hell*
18:54 joehh its a pity - it looks like we can't even wake up basepi (not that he is likely to be asleep now)
18:57 joehh :)
18:58 shadowsun goodwill: Being flippant aside, I'd file for you but I don't have any systems with BSD to replicate on :/
18:59 goodwill shadowsun: I think you mean to address Bagirek
18:59 goodwill shadowsun: :)
18:59 goodwill shadowsun: Bagirek found the bug
18:59 shadowsun Oh yeah
18:59 shadowsun whups
18:59 shadowsun See, this is why I don't file bugs for other people
18:59 shadowsun Bagirek: Being flippant aside, I'd file for you but I don't have any systems with BSD to replicate on :/
18:59 goodwill no worries :)
19:00 shadowsun Bagirek: And I can't remember who said what five minutes ago
19:00 shadowsun lol
19:00 basepi joehh: eh?
19:01 goodwill basepi: hey big chief
19:01 basepi Big chief, eh?
19:01 Bagirek https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/8932
19:01 Bagirek I did it..
19:02 Bagirek It's realy was hard for me
19:02 basepi Who dares summon me? ;)
19:02 shadowsun Bagirek: We really appreciate it :)
19:02 shadowsun Thank you so much :)
19:03 joehh I do (cowering...)
19:04 joehh everyone was taking two steps backwards in filing an issue - thought you might be able to assist :)
19:04 joehh missed seeing your name up the top as a channel admin
19:07 basepi joehh: hehe, I'll be back as op tomorrow. Just was actually taking my weekend. =)
19:07 basepi Looks like we got the issues filed, though?
19:07 joehh looks like it
19:07 basepi Cool. Ping me if you need me.
19:08 joehh I thought I'd be safe from interupting you for once... sorry about that
19:08 basepi Nah, you're totally fine.
19:08 goodwill basepi: :-P
19:08 Bagirek :)
19:08 basepi If I really wanted to not be contacted I would disconnect or disable prowl notifications.
19:08 basepi =P
19:08 shadowsun lol
19:09 shadowsun Go weekend
19:09 * shadowsun goes back to work :P
19:09 goodwill basepi: you can not hide from ... I'll sic whiteinge on you
19:09 goodwill basepi: he will HUG YOU
19:09 basepi NOOOOOOOOOO
19:09 basepi ;-)
19:09 goodwill :-D
19:11 Bagirek Goodbye everyone...
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21:41 MTecknology I don't like it when people don't read the details of a request form. :(
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22:15 AdamSewell salt does not use ssh for anything by default does it?
22:15 cast not by default, afaik
22:16 forrest AdamSewell, no
22:16 forrest it's all done via the establish zeromq connections from the minions.
22:16 AdamSewell thanks, just making sure. i'm thinking of changing the default ssh ports
22:16 forrest yea I usually do
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23:15 tdillio I want to "minion-ificate" 2 machines behind a router. Does anyone have any suggestion as to how I can achieve this? Since there is only a single IP, the only thing that comes to mind is port forwarding....
23:15 forrest what happens when you point each machine at the master? Does it only return a single server when you do salt-key -L?
23:16 tdillio forrest: I haven't tried yet, that's a good question though
23:17 tdillio I was just trying to get a plan before I did anything
23:17 forrest I'd see what happens there first
23:17 forrest I don't know if it gets based off the MAC or the IP
23:17 forrest because once the zeromq tunnel is established, technically it shouldn't matter I would think
23:18 tdillio forrest: I'd have to setup 2 FQDNs pointing to the same IP and was also curious how the master would deal with that
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23:18 forrest ahh ok
23:18 forrest yea I'd just go for it, see what happens
23:19 tdillio yeah, so I guess I don't even need ot muck with ports then I forgot that the minions don't need ports open
23:19 forrest right
23:19 tdillio I'll give it a go and see what happens :)
23:20 forrest cool let me know
23:23 jeddi tdillio:  why would you need the multiple fqdn's?
23:23 NV err, why not have two fqdns but pointing to the internal addresses?
23:23 NV (one for each minion)
23:23 NV the master never initiates a connection to the minion
23:23 NV only the other way around
23:24 tdillio I would need the FQDN for other services, but I didn't really know that the master did not need them at all
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23:33 NV its just an identifier
23:33 NV heck, minion ids don't even have to be fqdns :)
23:35 khaije|io NV: is Roster/SSH suppossed to make this possible?
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23:43 NV khaije|io: salt-ssh is a bit different, yeah
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