Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2014-07-13

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Time Nick Message
00:01 XenophonF seeing as we've had 32-bit compat issues on 64-bit Unix since at least the Alpha AXP, you'd think it'd be all figured out now and everything would be native
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01:26 vxitch how does salt keep track of running jobs? is it ephemeral or does it survive service restarts?
01:26 XenophonF good question
01:27 vxitch also, how does it determine what to list under the Running: category in an active job (as listed by salt-run jobs.active) ?
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01:28 vxitch the current job's Running: section keeps changing. sometimes it has 4 hosts, sometimes it has 2
01:28 vxitch of those, none have returned yet, so they should all be under running until they move to returned. is there a heartbeat by salt-minion as its running a job or what?
01:30 XenophonF have you read http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/jobs/index.html
01:31 vxitch no :)
01:32 vxitch thanks! that explains some things
01:35 vxitch what would cause salt-run jobs.active to hang and not return?
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01:41 XenophonF hm, good question
01:41 XenophonF what version of Salt are you running?
01:41 XenophonF could be a bug
01:42 XenophonF i've hit some issues like that with 2014.1.5
01:47 XenophonF vxitch: have you enabled any additional logging?
01:47 vxitch 2014.1.3, upgrading to 2014.1.5 now
01:47 vxitch i have not
01:47 XenophonF like salt-run -l debug something?
01:48 vxitch i made a mistake by issuing a yum update across all minions
01:48 vxitch forgetting that my master is also a minion
01:48 vxitch so i dont know how that affected things
01:48 vxitch if the service restarted in the middle of the job or something
01:48 vxitch the salt-master/salt-minion service on the master that is
01:48 vxitch does that affect things?
01:48 XenophonF yeah
01:48 vxitch if it does, how does salt handle minions upgrading the package from a job?
01:49 XenophonF i upgraded my master first and ran into trouble
01:49 XenophonF but once i upgraded all of the minions, they started working fine
01:49 vxitch yeah thats the issue
01:49 XenophonF i think that restarting a minion interrupts a job
01:49 vxitch im afraid of being out of sync
01:50 vxitch because salt shits so hard when everything isn't perfect
01:50 vxitch god, i love this project, but it really needs to mature
01:50 XenophonF i only have a small test deployment so far, so it wasn't a big deal
01:50 vxitch my issue is im running it in production. not too many hosts, but it matters
01:50 XenophonF oh i guessed as much
01:50 vxitch because i dont like puppet's architecture
01:51 vxitch though its a much more mature project. it has consistency going for it, which is nice
01:51 XenophonF i personally tire of the open-source-to-enterprise bait and switch
01:51 vxitch whats that?
01:51 vxitch oh, the enterprise puppet and nginx and so on?
01:51 XenophonF yeah
01:51 XenophonF zenoss too
01:51 vxitch agreed
01:51 XenophonF and others
01:51 vxitch i mean, my company uses puppet for 1.5k hosts
01:52 vxitch and it works
01:52 XenophonF wow
01:52 XenophonF oh i don't doubt it!
01:52 vxitch it's not great, but it's consistently not great
01:52 vxitch so it's usable
01:52 vxitch i use salt to run a radio station
01:52 vxitch which i like a lot
01:52 vxitch but these consistency issues make it difficult to love :)
01:53 XenophonF yeah
01:53 vxitch i'm going to try and test salt at scale, on the side of puppet. probably just for orchestration as i dont want to step on puppet's feet
01:53 XenophonF so what kind of jobs are you running through salt?
01:53 vxitch that'll be interesting to see how it stands up against mcollective and ansible
01:54 XenophonF see i'm coming at this with almost no prior CM experience aside from desparately wanting to deploy tools like BigFix or System Center
01:54 vxitch state enforcement, initial configuration (i have a cobbler server and the last things the kickstarts do is install salt-minion and call home), orchestration for simple things like test.ping to see if everything's good (i have monitoring, too) and right now my first site-wide yum -y update
01:54 XenophonF i can barely get my colleagues to write documentation, let alone develop repeatable configs a la salt and others
01:54 vxitch yeah i came into salt with absolutely 0 CM experience or knowledge
01:55 vxitch i read the salt docs obsessively for two months, and read everything i could about it and puppet
01:55 vxitch decided on salt because no ruby, all python, and brokerless zeromq, and no dependency on ssh being open or shit like that
01:55 vxitch after that, i went to work with puppet at my current gig
01:55 vxitch and the knowledge transferred over very easily
01:56 vxitch despite me not knowing any ruby
01:56 vxitch its easy to pick up
01:56 XenophonF those requirements pretty much mirror my own
01:58 XenophonF i have always tended to scripting my installs, if only to make it easier for my colleagues to follow (and less brittle than walking them through a GUI or whatever)
01:58 vxitch anyway. ive loved salt since before the 2014 versioning change. it's gotten better. i haven't run into horrible QA issues since 2014.1.3, which is comforting. they still need to improve with things like if i run a state half the time salt returns no output
01:58 vxitch so i just have to keep doing lookup_jid until i get it all back
01:58 vxitch that's frustrating
01:58 XenophonF i've seen that more with 2014.1.5, to be honest
01:59 vxitch greeeeeat :P
01:59 XenophonF yeah
01:59 XenophonF i really want to get to 2014.1.7 soon because it's supposed to fix a lot of bugs
01:59 vxitch haha, every version is supposed to fix a lot of bad bugs
01:59 XenophonF heh
01:59 vxitch the project needs some QA, to be honest
02:00 vxitch i *so* wish i had the time to contribute
02:00 vxitch instead of basically sitting in irc bitching about it
02:00 XenophonF :)
02:00 XenophonF well i'm on freebsd, so support for stuff isn't as good as on linux
02:00 vxitch may the lord be with you
02:00 XenophonF extending salt isn't too tough
02:01 XenophonF i'm actually pretty impressed with how easy it's been for me to fill in some of the blanks
02:01 vxitch we're phasing out our freebsd boxes now with ZoL being good enough to be reliable
02:01 XenophonF what's ZoL?
02:01 XenophonF oh ZFS
02:01 vxitch ZFS on Linux
02:01 vxitch mmhm
02:01 XenophonF like I wrote groupadd support for FreeBSD pretty quickly
02:01 XenophonF now I just need to figure out how to contribute it back
02:02 XenophonF i need to finish testing my FreeBSD user management module and get that uploaded to Git, too
02:02 XenophonF i'm running the salt master on FreeBSD 10
02:03 vxitch ah alright, yeah i *think* i'm supporting freebsd 9 atm
02:03 vxitch not too sure
02:03 XenophonF it's funny because _none_ of the salt formulas I looked at mention a non-Linux target
02:04 XenophonF anyway
02:04 XenophonF i'm just waiting on poudriere to finish a batch package build run for FreeBSD, then i'm going to test upgrading to salt 2014.1.7
02:05 vxitch great, you should def contribute that if you're able to
02:05 XenophonF i really want to
02:05 XenophonF it's just a matter of testing the code out a little more and then figuring out git pull requests
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02:06 XenophonF i've also got a partially functional MSI installer for Windows
02:06 XenophonF I _really_ want to see what I can do with Salt on Windows.
02:07 vxitch scary :P but i dont manage windows so that's why
02:07 vxitch that would be fantastic
02:07 vxitch anyway, i restarted salt-minion and master on the master and now everything works as expected
02:07 vxitch i guess that was the only thing
02:07 XenophonF We're almost exclusively Windows at work.
02:07 vxitch all my hosts are up and happy
02:07 XenophonF oh good to hear it!
02:07 vxitch yeah super thrilled
02:07 XenophonF well at least it's a happy ending
02:07 vxitch its stuff like this that i was talking about. it almost always works perfectly, but it doesnt say so!
02:07 vxitch anyawy, i gotta run
02:07 XenophonF same here
02:07 vxitch nice chat :) gl with your fbsd
02:08 XenophonF thanks :)
02:08 XenophonF catch you later
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05:37 sag47 What sort of RHEL 7 support does salt have currently?
05:37 sag47 I'm interested in support like firewalld and systemd.
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09:16 natural anyone want to tell me what salt is?
09:18 natural is this saltsoftware.com?
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09:38 dzen http://saltstack.com/
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11:56 luminous when was the file.recurse state added?
11:57 kiorky luminous: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/blame/develop/salt/states/file.py#L1691
11:59 luminous hmmm.. so a while ago
11:59 luminous i've never used blame in github, cool stuff, thanks for pointing out kiorky
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12:10 kiorky luminous: np
12:11 kiorky your welcome
12:12 luminous hrm, is seems file.recurse cannot work with salt-call and source: file:///foo/bar/
12:12 luminous The source: file:///foo/bar does not exist on the master
12:13 luminous sorry, salt-call --local
12:17 luminous that's disappointing
12:17 * luminous uncomments 20 lines of file/cmd states
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16:39 XenophonF does anyone know if salt-ssh works with su?
16:39 XenophonF on freebsd sudo isn't installed by default, but su comes with the base system
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16:45 sag47 I'll ask again for those who may have come from different time zones.  What sort of RHEL7 support does salt have?  I looked up in the docs but couldn't find much.
16:46 sag47 XenophonF: Last I used freebsd sudo could be installed.  You could install it and configure it if you don't receive an acceptable answer.
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17:32 XenophonF sag47: thanks, i'm trying to bootstrap a salt install on FreeBSD with minimal changes to the base system
17:33 XenophonF i definitely could install sudo, but i might as well install salt at that point :)
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18:01 iggy I'm writing a new salt module and having trouble getting logging to work (and/or figuring out where that logging is going)
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18:20 eliasp iggy: you don't need much for logging… "import logging", then instantiate a logger: "log = logging.getLogger(__getname__)" and then just log depending on your output level: log.warning('something is wrong {0}'.format(errorcode))
18:20 eliasp there's also log.error(), .debug, .trace() and I think 2 more…
18:21 eliasp now it depends on the log-level used to run the module how much you get to see… --log-level=trace will show you everything
18:22 dzen s/__getname__/__name__/ ?
18:22 eliasp if you push the module to a minion using saltutil.sync_all to run it on the minion for testing, you can do something like:
18:22 eliasp salt your-dev-minion cmd.run "salt-call -l debug module.function"
18:23 eliasp dzen: you're right
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18:28 iggy got it, I was almost there, I just has 2 issues: 1) logging level 2) looking in master log file instead of minion log file
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18:32 RandalSchwartz today is another salty day. :)
18:32 XenophonF RandalSchwartz: oh hey thanks for recommending Poudriere
18:32 eliasp hi RandalSchwartz
18:33 XenophonF it was a while ago
18:33 RandalSchwartz trying to remember how I was going to move my private data out of git
18:33 RandalSchwartz put it in a pillar, but the pillar directory is all under git. :)
18:33 eliasp iggy: logging from the minion to the master… I don't think that's possible… you could log to a file on the minion instead and tail it or log to rsyslog or so
18:33 RandalSchwartz I know I came up with a solution but that was like a month ago
18:34 eliasp RandalSchwartz: so you don't want to keep using git for secret/private pillar data? what about using the GPG renderer?
18:34 eliasp RandalSchwartz: then you could keep them in git and don't have to worry about it any further
18:34 iggy no, it's just right now the partifular minion I'm working on is also the master... i got wires crossed is all
18:34 RandalSchwartz AHh... I think I rember now
18:35 RandalSchwartz have a second pillar root that is outside git
18:35 RandalSchwartz and they merge together
18:35 eliasp RandalSchwartz: sure, works as well
18:38 luminous RandalSchwartz: seen reclass?
18:38 iggy I'm also pretty close to figuring out how to map a salt-api "/hook" call to a module function, but I feel like I'm missing one tiny little bit of info
18:38 RandalSchwartz reclass?
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18:39 RandalSchwartz XenophonF - you're welcome.  it has definitely saved me some time
18:39 RandalSchwartz in fact, I'm about to test that salt will restart services that have been package updated :)
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18:42 XenophonF so salt-ssh depending on sudo is bugging me, so i'm looking at the code in salt/client/ssh to see how difficult it might be to add support for su
18:52 RandalSchwartz if state.highstate is still in progress, is there a command I can issue from the master to see what it has said so far?
18:52 RandalSchwartz I have a jobid from the error message
18:53 babilen XenophonF: Well, it wants sudo with NOPASSWD ... try to get that into su
18:54 XenophonF oh
18:54 babilen XenophonF: It might be able to get it to ask for the password every time you need to acquire superuser privileges, but what bugs you about sudo? It is a perfectly appropriate solution for this case.
18:54 XenophonF I haven't gotten to that part of the code yet.
18:55 XenophonF babilen: I want to bootstrap my minion deployments using salt-ssh.
18:55 XenophonF On FreeBSD I have to install sudo using the third-party ports system.
18:55 XenophonF And if I'm going to have to manually install sudo, I might as well manually install the Salt minion.
18:56 XenophonF which kind of defeats the purpose of bootstrapping with salt-ssh
18:56 drogoh you don't have to use ports. you can use packages
18:56 XenophonF I'm well aware of that.
18:57 XenophonF I don't remember is sudo comes with Solaris now, either.
18:57 XenophonF so again, same bootstrapping issue there
18:58 XenophonF or the other BSDs
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19:00 babilen XenophonF: Doesn't your installation procedure allow you to specify additional packages or run a script during the bootstrapping?
19:00 babilen We use d-i over PXE and just run a couple of scripts once the baseinstall is done.
19:02 XenophonF babilen: not right now, but I guess the right answer for FreeBSD is to use a bsdinstall script that installs the Salt minion
19:03 XenophonF i.e., a custom install ISO with /etc/installerconfig
19:03 * babilen nods
19:05 eliasp RandalSchwartz: have a look at http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/modules/all/salt.modules.saltutil.html and the job-related functions to query running jobs
19:05 eliasp RandalSchwartz: but to actually see returned data of running jobs Halite might be more useful
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19:09 RandalSchwartz thanks
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19:36 XenophonF so regarding bootstrapping, I should be able to do something like this to install Salt from my private repo
19:36 XenophonF env PACKAGESITE='http://salt.irtnog.org/${ABI}' ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=yes pkg install py27-salt
19:37 XenophonF and the default minion config should work well enough for bootstrapping
19:38 XenophonF I need to either get bsdinstall to configure networking during install time, or i need to run that pkg command on firstboot
19:38 XenophonF IIRC cpersiva writing firstboot scripts for FreeBSD/EC2 - maybe i can adapt those for Hyper-V (which is what I'm using)
19:38 XenophonF or vSphere (what we use at work)
19:40 XenophonF Or I could go all the way and build custom release ISOs with my repo and those packages installed by default.
19:40 XenophonF Or I could figure out how to bootstrap pxeboot using Windows Deployment Services
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19:41 XenophonF I used to be able to do that with RIS.
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19:58 mway For pillar includes, is YAML included verbatim or is it parsed beforehand? In lieu of extend functionality in the pillar it'd be nice to be able to use YAML anchors/references, but that only seems to work inside the same YAML file
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19:59 RandalSchwartz the freebsd pkgng support doesn't appear to recognize that a port on which a named port depends has been updated
19:59 RandalSchwartz so "pkg upgrade" would update it, but salt does not
19:59 RandalSchwartz for pkg.latest
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20:02 XenophonF that's my experience
20:02 XenophonF pkg support on freebsd needs a lot of work
20:03 RandalSchwartz I guess I could explicity list all depends in my pkg.names
20:03 XenophonF i've taken to running pkg upgrade jobs as needed
20:03 RandalSchwartz but that might vary over time
20:03 RandalSchwartz Well - I don't want to use pkg upgrade because it won't restart services properly
20:04 XenophonF i'm doing my updates windows style, with a reboot at the end ;)
20:04 RandalSchwartz ahh
20:04 XenophonF it's far from ideal
20:04 XenophonF but whatever happens during a maintenance windows stays in the maintenance window, or something like that
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20:05 XenophonF I will admit that our tolerances are really loose here.
20:09 XenophonF RandalSchwartz: is there a bug report in github for that?
20:09 RandalSchwartz I haven't checked
20:09 RandalSchwartz I just now discovered it
20:09 RandalSchwartz and I need to rule out that it's just something I'm doing wrong
20:11 RandalSchwartz heh... I'm running nginx on a machine with no apparently use of it.
20:11 RandalSchwartz fascinating what you discover when you're capturing configs
20:15 eliasp RandalSchwartz: this might be related: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/7217
20:15 RandalSchwartz yeah - might be related
20:16 RandalSchwartz effectively, salt needs to call "pkg install $packages" and note what it says
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20:18 XenophonF yeah
20:18 XenophonF that's it alright
20:19 XenophonF really what they need to do is support old pkg_add and pkgng as separate modules
20:19 eliasp please add this to the issue…
20:19 XenophonF backends to pkg, I mean
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20:19 XenophonF i don't like the idea of having a separate pkgng state
20:20 XenophonF i already have too man if grains['os_family'] conditionals spread throughout my sls files
20:20 XenophonF too many i mean :)
20:20 eliasp sure, pkg should always be the final abstraction layer
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20:26 RandalSchwartz pkg(non-ng) is EOLed, I think
20:27 eliasp RandalSchwartz: I was referring to the Salt state 'pkg' as in salt/states/pkg.py
20:27 RandalSchwartz sure
20:27 eliasp k ;)
20:27 RandalSchwartz but just in terms of things to support for fbsd
20:27 RandalSchwartz cool... capturing more and more state of my current hosts
20:28 RandalSchwartz goal is to be able to replace myself with a very small shell script
20:29 eliasp RandalSchwartz: wise decision… to just apply salt to pre-existing hosts… I set the condition to only use it for new hosts and rebuild the whole infrastructure from ground base on Salt… I believe this has made the rate of adoption far slower than it could have been doing it your way
20:29 RandalSchwartz $client is nervous about all the random config files I've installed over the years
20:30 RandalSchwartz this captures my knowledge, and makes "hit by a bus" no longer a problem for him (well, in a way)
20:30 eliasp hehe
20:30 RandalSchwartz at least it'll be a much bigger problem for me instead of him. :)
20:31 eliasp RandalSchwartz: well, if the bus is successful, there won't be any problems for you to worry about anymore :)
20:32 XenophonF i dunno about the rest of you but i get super bored by about mid-way through my second install of something :)
20:33 eliasp same feeling here right now… don't feel motivated to continue the saltified Samba setup here ;)
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20:44 RandalSchwartz so what's the easiest way to say that if I need to restart pgpool, I have to do it while apache is down?
20:44 RandalSchwartz and I want to restart pgpool if its package changes
20:44 RandalSchwartz wait... I've done this somewhere aleady
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20:47 eliasp :)
20:47 RandalSchwartz Hmm.  maybe not
20:49 RandalSchwartz maybe a synthetic state with both watch: and watch_in: ?
20:50 RandalSchwartz ugh - this page is broken... http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/requisites.html
20:50 RandalSchwartz "here" goes nowhere. :(
20:52 RandalSchwartz Ugh - where *is* the wait, wait_in docs?
20:53 RandalSchwartz err... watch, watch_in
20:56 RandalSchwartz ugh... google "saltstack watch watch_in" leads only to pages that say the docs have moved "here", but "here" is a nonfunctional link
20:56 RandalSchwartz that... sucks.
20:57 eliasp RandalSchwartz: "here" is: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/global_state_arguments.html
20:57 eliasp I'll issue a PR for this…
20:58 RandalSchwartz thank you
20:59 RandalSchwartz so is there a simple way to say that if pgpool needs to be restarted, I first have to drop apache, restart pgpool, then start apache again?
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21:00 RandalSchwartz I've done that with explicit prereq and prereq_in, but can it be done simply withwatch?
21:00 RandalSchwartz s/drop/stop/
21:00 RandalSchwartz is it simply pgpool.service: watch: service.apache ?
21:00 RandalSchwartz or the other way around perhaps?
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21:05 eliasp RandalSchwartz: sorry, don't know what I'd do…
21:05 eliasp meh… the RST looks good, no idea why the link in the docs is broken
21:05 eliasp another one pointing to the same is broken too
21:07 RandalSchwartz weird
21:14 RandalSchwartz Hmm.  maybe if the pgpool service state is a watch_in apache?
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21:39 RandalSchwartz so watch doesn't know how to stop ... do things ... start?  only restart?
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21:42 iggy when I try to run salt <args> as a normal user, it takes a very long time to run (I've already set up the client_acl and added perms for the user on a few folders in /var)
21:46 iggy scratch that, must be something else, when I run it via a git hook script it takes forever, but su'ing to the user, it runs fine
21:46 * iggy blames ruby
21:49 RandalSchwartz I often blame ruby
21:50 RandalSchwartz still not sure how to fix this dependency problem
21:50 RandalSchwartz I must not be the only one to need this. :)
21:50 RandalSchwartz service A being updated because of watch.  service B needs to be down while A is being updated.
21:50 RandalSchwartz how do I write that in the SLS?
21:53 dimeshake i don't think that feature exists yet
21:53 dimeshake but it'd be useful
21:57 RandalSchwartz ... https://groups.google.com/d/msg/salt-users/fk5l1Hluq1w/k5egJvCT3yEJ
21:59 XenophonF RandalSchwartz: if you're still on I have an idea
21:59 XenophonF it's a hack
21:59 RandalSchwartz yeahG
21:59 XenophonF if i understand correctly, you want to stop apache, restart pgsql, start apache, right?
22:00 RandalSchwartz yeah
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22:01 XenophonF so have a stop_apache: service.dead state watched by a stop_pgsql: service.dead state watched by a start_pgsql: service.running state watched by a start_apache: service.running state
22:01 RandalSchwartz well - three levels, but let's start with two
22:01 XenophonF trigger the whole chain by having the stop_apache: service.dead state watching something itself
22:02 XenophonF now whether that'd work... :)
22:02 XenophonF maybe have separate service.enabled states for them just so the config doesn't get too confusing?
22:03 RandalSchwartz yeah - not sure how to express that stop_apache should only be run if pgsql needs to be restarted
22:03 XenophonF what would trigger a pgsql stop/start?
22:03 XenophonF pkg update?
22:03 XenophonF config change?
22:03 RandalSchwartz yes pkg or conf
22:03 XenophonF you'd have to make stop_apache watch those
22:03 XenophonF or do watch_in: service: stop_apache in those states
22:03 XenophonF or whatever is least ugly
22:04 RandalSchwartz ahh.  postgresl: service.running, watch_in: apache_stopped
22:04 RandalSchwartz that might just work
22:04 XenophonF oh yeah
22:04 XenophonF that'd be better than a running/dead state pair
22:05 XenophonF explicitly calling them "stop_$whatever" might make it easier for others to follow your logic
22:05 RandalSchwartz now to see if it'll kill apache only when needed. :)
22:06 RandalSchwartz I'm wondering what will revive apache though
22:06 RandalSchwartz I'll have another state for apache service.running of course
22:06 RandalSchwartz Maybe I'll need "order: last" on that
22:06 XenophonF hang on a sec let me post the code i had in mind
22:06 RandalSchwartz yeah - the sucky part of YAML is hard to paste in IRC :)
22:07 RandalSchwartz python ditto
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22:10 XenophonF http://paste.debian.net/109546/
22:10 XenophonF yeah
22:10 XenophonF that's kind of what i had in mind
22:11 XenophonF whatever ought to trigger this process should go into the stop_apache service.dead state's watch list
22:11 * jpaetzel worked for Clark Evans years ago
22:11 jpaetzel he invented YA<L
22:11 RandalSchwartz well - Clark and Ingy
22:11 jpaetzel aye
22:12 RandalSchwartz Ingy dot Com :)
22:12 RandalSchwartz or was it dot net
22:12 * jpaetzel tries to map irc to R/L
22:12 jpaetzel Randal the FreeBSD guy who does embedded and so forth?
22:14 RandalSchwartz not embedded no
22:14 RandalSchwartz floss weekly host, perl hacker
22:14 eliasp jpaetzel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randal_L._Schwartz :)
22:14 RandalSchwartz and that, yes
22:14 RandalSchwartz wikipedia minor celebrity :)
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22:15 eliasp RandalSchwartz: every WP article about a person with more than 3 references is not minor anymore, sorry… you're a celeb now! ;)
22:15 RandalSchwartz part of that has just been being around long enough. :)
22:15 jpaetzel ok, we've never met, I was thinking about a different Randal Schwarz
22:16 RandalSchwartz but I *do* use freebsd for my servers
22:16 jpaetzel of course
22:16 XenophonF yay!  i'm not the only one!
22:16 XenophonF ;)
22:16 eliasp I feel like a minority as Linux user now ;)
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22:17 jpaetzel you know it was interesting, I sat on a panel with Cantrell a while ago, and there was a linux guy there
22:17 jpaetzel and for the first time in years it was the linux guy who was backpedalling about all the stuff that linux didn't have
22:17 RandalSchwartz I used linux in the early days.
22:17 eliasp hehe
22:17 RandalSchwartz now I try to avoid it when I can.
22:17 jpaetzel usually it's the complete opposite
22:18 eliasp I'd say "the right tool for the right job"
22:18 RandalSchwartz I'd rather use real unix. :)
22:18 RandalSchwartz I first typed "ls" in 1977.
22:18 jpaetzel linux is to unix what porn is to sex
22:19 jpaetzel you have me beat by a decade
22:19 jpaetzel but everything I've used has been BSD
22:19 RandalSchwartz in 1977... it was Unix v6.
22:19 RandalSchwartz the one before The One True Unix (v7)
22:19 jpaetzel SunOS 4.1
22:19 jpaetzel That's what I started with
22:20 RandalSchwartz the v6 glob command was the first command written in C.  everything else there was assembly.
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22:20 RandalSchwartz I have email from DMR about that.
22:20 jpaetzel If you want to be teased, tantalized, and ultimately left unsatisfied you now have two choices.  watch porn or install linux
22:21 XenophonF i started on SunOS 4.1 too!
22:21 XenophonF well that and NextStep 3.something
22:21 RandalSchwartz ... http://unix-jun72.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/src/cmd/glob.c
22:22 jpaetzel Through an odd twist of fate we ended up owning billjoy.com
22:23 RandalSchwartz well - I'm going to circle back around to salt after I do a couple of programming tasks.  I might be back active here in a bit.
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23:06 RandalSchwartz ok - coding finished, circling back to salt
23:07 RandalSchwartz trying to figure out a simple safe test.. hard to test on live systems. :)
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23:35 Guest69615 as a developer of a salt module, I'm curious where best to put common library code shared between modules
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23:36 Guest69615 as I understand it files in _modules are auto-registered as modules by the name of the file (putting __virtual__ functions aside for the moment)
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