Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2014-08-27

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Time Nick Message
00:07 luminous joehoyle: pkg.latest might do that?
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00:10 forrest joehoyle, the package will not be updated with pkg.installed unless the version value is set.
00:10 forrest joehoyle, only pkg.latest will always try to find an update, and update if possible.
00:10 forrest joehoyle, you may wish to populate the version value from pillar, or another style map file depending on how your configuration is set up
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00:20 FuriousGeorge Greetings. I have a bit of an issue, and am hoping someone can help me pin it down.
00:21 FuriousGeorge I have several Windows minions that, when I run `state.highstate` report errors on a couple of packages
00:21 FuriousGeorge However, when I run `state.highstate` via a salt-call from the machines locally, everything works fine.
00:23 FuriousGeorge I've repeadedly executed `winrepo.genrepo`, `pkg.refresh_db`, and even `saltutil.sync_all`, to no avail
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00:26 FuriousGeorge In case it matters, everything I'm using is running 2014.1.10
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01:10 drowe Hi all. A project I'm working on needs https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/12628 (mdadm assemble support) implemented. Last activity on it appears to be 2014-05-08, so I was gonna go ahead and add a PR for it. I've never made a PR for salt before--are there any things I need to watch out for or style considerations I need to keep in mind?
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01:11 malinoff drowe, http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/development/index.html
01:12 robawt drowe: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/development/conventions/style.html
01:12 robawt d'oh malinoff beat me
01:13 drowe thanks!
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01:55 ngo good morning all
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01:57 talwai How often does salt poll the git server when using a gitfs backend? Is there a setting for this somewhere in the master config?
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02:47 blarghmatey I can't seem to get GitFS to work on my master.
02:48 blarghmatey The contents of my gitfs.conf inside /etc/salt/master.d/ is as shown here: http://dpaste.com/17E1W25
02:49 blarghmatey There is no git* directory inside /var/cache/salt/master that would indicate that it has even tried to sync the contents of the formulas.
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03:22 mway @blarghmatey are you running highstate? if not, did you salt-run fileserver.update to double check first? What is the result of a config.get gitfs_remotes on a minion? Also, I have the repos suffixed with .git, unsure if that actually makes a difference or not, but might be worth a try.
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03:30 blarghmatey mway: I realized that my issue is that I had a typo in fileserver_root
03:31 blarghmatey It's working now. Thank you.
03:32 mway @blarghmatey :) awesome!
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06:38 mw_ Hi all, i'm searching if i could use percentage for the size of an partition when using partition.mkpartfs but can't find an documentation if or if i could not use a percentage value. Another way might be to tell partition.mkpartfs it should use the hole disk but i can't find an document too for that.. can someone point me in the right direction, please? Thanks a lot!
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07:35 albertid Hi, is there a salt module that I can use to check http status codes of arbitrary urls?
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08:04 the_drow Hi guys, I'm trying to set up a development environment using our salt states and docker. I am using fig to orchestrate the build of the containers.
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08:04 the_drow How do I link between a master container and a minion container? Has anyone ever tried?
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08:59 xintron Is there a way I can test pattern matches (the ones I enter in my top.sls file)?
08:59 xintron Is it the same syntax as for salt? And can I use it like salt '*' test.ping to check which machines I get response from?
09:01 babilen xintron: You can, yes. See http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/targeting/ for details
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09:04 xintron babilen, Thanks
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09:24 xintron Can't you do a watch on a file.recurse state?
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09:29 babilen xintron: ECONTEXT
09:29 xintron babilen, service.running: - watch: -file: managed-file, -file: recursed-files
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09:29 xintron I'll fix a pastie
09:30 xintron babilen, https://gist.github.com/xintron/ba67d2303640e2c3cce4
09:31 xintron Another problem as well is that I don't even see the sites-enabled in the output of the run
09:31 xintron Only nginx + /nginx.conf
09:32 babilen And what's the problem?
09:32 xintron hrmm... sorry. There's no problem :)
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09:33 babilen Okay, thanks for showing me your states, but I am still not quite sure what your question actually is. :-/
09:33 babilen (or problem with what you pasted)
09:34 xintron babilen, For some reason the writes of the file wasn't synced to the server so the server still used an older sls file (that were lacking my file.recurse block)
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09:38 babilen Okay, so you thought that there is a problem with your state, while the problem was, in fact, that your state wasn't even present on the master? (salt-util fileserver.update might be to your liking)
09:38 babilen err, s/salt-util/salt-run/
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10:38 the_drow How do I grab the salt-master address from an environment variable?
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11:26 babilen the_drow: Which address?
11:26 the_drow I am using fig which exports the salt-master address to the minion using an environment variable.
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11:30 the_drow babilen: Fig also exposes it on the hosts file. Nevermind.
11:32 babilen And you really expect that to be apparent from your "How do I grab the salt-master address from an environment variable?" question?
11:32 babilen *expected
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11:36 the_drow yes
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13:08 mortis_ playing a bit with salt.utils.event, and getting the events works fine, till i add "tag='<sometag>'" where ive tried all the different tags in event.py (auth,job,key,minion etc), but as soon as i use tag, i dont get any result even tho i run stuff that should trigger it
13:09 mortis_ seen that before?
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13:12 lietu is there a way I can create/get a .. plugin or something, that I can get google compute engine metadata as grains? e.g. grains["gce"]["instance"]["hostname"] would return the same data as ```curl -H 'Metadata-Flavor: Google' metadata/computeMetadata/v1/instance/hostname``` ?
13:12 Ove_ Wjhat åath does salt:// correspond to on freebsd?
13:12 Ove_ *path
13:12 Ove_ /usr/local/etc/salt ?
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13:14 Sp00n it maps to your masters root dir
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13:17 mortis_ to me it looks like event.py's iter_events function sets tag to an empty string :  def iter_events(self, tag='', full=False)
13:18 mortis_ data = self.get_event(tag=tag, full=full) <- will den just get an empty tag?
13:18 mortis_ den=then
13:20 lietu mortis_: the tag='' means '' is the default value for the argument if it's not given, not that it's always set to ''
13:20 mortis_ ah
13:20 mortis_ so passing of tag should work then
13:20 mortis_ dont know why it wount list out anythign
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13:30 Ove_ Sp00n: What would be the root dir on the master? /usr/local/etc/salt ? Or is it what is configured in file_roots ?
13:32 Sp00n yea i think its relative to your base dir
13:32 Sp00n but dont quote me on that
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13:38 Ove_ Sp00n: Awesome, thanks!!
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13:41 mortis_ isnt this supposed to work? http://pastie.org/9507249
13:41 mortis_ listen for auth-tag, then fire up an event and tag it auth
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13:52 TTimo hello, is anyone aware of a salt state for bzr/bazaar? basic google searches didn't reveal anyway
13:52 TTimo anything even
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13:57 manfred TTimo: there isn't anything yet
13:58 TTimo kk just checking :)
13:58 manfred only git, svn and mercurial
13:58 TTimo fair enough
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13:59 agend hi - where can I find any info about how can interpret net/http/pprof data like: heap profile: 8: 8296768 [4261: 9226704] @ heap/1048576
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14:03 lz-dylan agend: I don't know what's going on just from that line alone; what are you trying to accomplish?
14:03 lz-dylan (I'm not a Python hacker but I've spent a decent amount of time with Salt :) )
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14:04 lz-dylan all: anyone familiar with using salt-cloud with EC2? I'd like to have certain newly-provisioned instances attach to EIPs, but it looks like you can only do that with EC2-VPC and I'm using EC2-Classic. Is there a way to do this with Classic?
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14:06 agend lz-dylan: sorry - wrong window
14:07 lz-dylan agend: haha, that would be why that looked so unfamiliar! :) good luck
14:08 agend sry :)
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14:12 TTimo how do I install the latest RC of salt?
14:12 TTimo turns out I'm trying to use some of the new features
14:12 TTimo that explains ..
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14:15 TTimo I'm lazy and I use the ppa atm (ubuntu) .. is there a ppa for the more experimental and latest stuff
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14:18 TTimo http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/releases/releasecandidate.html
14:18 TTimo aright
14:18 lz-dylan TTimo: no PPA yet as far as I know, but the /topic of this channel has info (http://bit.ly/salt-rc) :)
14:18 lz-dylan (lack of PPA is exactly why I haven't bothered yet either...)
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14:22 TTimo is there a quick formula to detect the salt version and complain :)
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14:28 lz-dylan TTimo: complain in which case and how?
14:29 TTimo I guess a salt state that checks the salt version, and 'fails' would draw attention to the problem
14:29 TTimo I was using some of the new features, and the keywords are basically silently ignored?
14:29 lz-dylan TTimo: quick/dirty to update to latest in PPA, if you're on Ubuntu: https://gist.github.com/arubis/39ea1bce914c4cfba1e2
14:30 TTimo lz-dylan: right, but that's only the stable release
14:30 lz-dylan TTimo: but that won't report version, and...yeah.
14:31 TTimo I got the bootstrap going, it's all good
14:31 lz-dylan TTimo: it's pretty rad that bootstrap does the trick.
14:31 lz-dylan TTimo: especially as that'd take care of dependencies.
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14:33 TTimo ah my new state works with latest RC, but some older states stopped working hehe
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15:00 TTimo when I use 'require' in my state files .. what are the keys that I can use? I see pkg:, or service:, file: in the examples .. what about a straight up state ID? how is that done?
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15:05 jchen i think the key is just the state declaration
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15:06 jchen so it would be like <state declaration>: <state id>
15:07 jchen TTimo: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/highstate.html#requisite-reference
15:07 TTimo oh I've been reading that .. can't make sense of it
15:08 TTimo what's the 'state declaration'
15:08 jchen state declaration is like pkg, service, file, etc
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15:19 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt | 2014.1.10 is the latest | Help us test the 2014.7 RC! http://bit.ly/salt-rc | Please be patient when asking questions as we are volunteers and may not have immediate answers | Channel logs are available at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/
15:20 Setsuna666 Right now, our current "fix", is to create a custom grain on all minions, that fetch the master:pillar_roots for its environment (saltenv)
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15:20 Setsuna666 But, I'm looking for a more cleaner way to do it, if possible
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15:22 jchen TTimo: are you able to snip just the relevant bits from the debug log or no
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15:23 Setsuna666 We are using this to generate dynamic pillar for the SSL certificates for our web servers. Here is the pillar sls file: http://pastebin.com/aTzja2Qh
15:24 Ove_ is minionid what's matched in the top.sls's?
15:24 TTimo jchen: let me see
15:24 Gareth morning
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15:32 TTimo jchen: https://gist.github.com/TTimo/826e2de037d07ed6a92d
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15:35 Sylphid|home hey all, i have a question/request that im curious how possible it would be, im using cobbler as an external pillar and im attempting to use cobblers management classes as a mechanism for targeting
15:36 Sylphid|home this works fine for states, however it does not appear that i can use ext_piller data for targeting normal piller
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15:44 jchen i wish the onchanges behavior had better documentation
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15:46 manfred jchen: it is like watch, but doens't require a mod_watch function?
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15:46 manfred jchen: if there is anything returned in the {'changes': .... } portion of the return from the other state, then the state you have onchanges: in will run
15:46 jchen ah, that makes sense
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15:47 jchen manfred: do you know why https://gist.github.com/TTimo/d2b8c8b82193d3b8b079 returns One or more requisites failed for the ssh restart state?
15:48 TTimo (disclaimer - must be something dumb I only have a few weeks of salt experience)
15:50 manfred hrm
15:50 manfred jchen: no idea why that is failing
15:50 jchen yeah, it looks kosher to me
15:50 jchen the debug log said the file.replace was returning True so the restart should have executed
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15:50 hobakill Ahlee: got gitfs working as expected.
15:51 jchen would looking at the minion log be useful?
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15:51 jchen maybe the sshd initscript is broke or something
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15:52 manfred i am looking at it and getting the same failure
15:54 manfred jchen: you are 2014.7 right?
15:54 manfred or develop
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15:56 hobakill how do people use gitfs with winrepo? can the repo cache live anywhere on the salt-master server?
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15:57 manfred oh
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15:57 manfred jchen: service.restart isn't a state
15:57 manfred jchen: do service.running: full_restart: True
15:58 manfred or
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16:00 manfred jchen: this is what you should use.
16:00 manfred jchen: http://ix.io/e3v
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16:09 tk75 are there any options to the backup function in file.managed? it's  not retaining the permissions of the backed up file ... is there a way to disable backups? just leave the statement missing?
16:09 tk75 I have a file that is 400 that gets backed up 644
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16:11 manfred tk75: which version of salt are you using?
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16:13 manfred tk75: on 2014.1, the backup: option is where you set what you want the file backed up as
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16:13 manfred actually nevermind
16:13 akl what's a good way to troubleshoot persistent "Function salt.highstate is not available" errors? running with minion in '-l debug' just shows the job getting created and then returning the job id
16:13 manfred https://github.com/saltstack/salt/blob/2014.1/salt/utils/__init__.py#L666
16:14 akl running 2014.1.10
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16:14 manfred it should just copy it with the same file https://docs.python.org/2/library/shutil.html#shutil.copyfile
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16:14 manfred akl: it is state.highstate, not salt.highstate
16:15 akl dear lord
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16:15 tcotav I still type that wrong sometimes :D
16:15 akl I have wasted so much time
16:15 akl thank you
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16:16 buhman ls
16:16 akl hehe :) I kept reading the docs and my eyes didn't see the difference, I guess
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16:16 buhman http://ix.io/e3w :(
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16:45 tk75 manfred, usinf 2014.1.0
16:45 manfred .0? you really should update
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16:46 tk75 manfred, all I see in the docs is "backup: minion"
16:46 manfred eyah, that is what it should be
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16:46 manfred i think i remember this being a bug
16:46 manfred and it being fixed in a recent version
16:47 manfred but i haven't had a chance to look yet
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16:58 Sylphid|home hey all, i would like to target pillar data based off of ext_pillar but this does not appear to be possible atm, how likely is it that this capability would be added?
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17:05 manfred Sylphid|home: probably
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17:06 UtahDave Hey everyone!
17:06 forrest UtahDave, what are you doing here?
17:07 TheThing joined #salt
17:07 UtahDave :) he he.  Just wanted to say hi to all my friends!
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17:20 nahamu .oO(why wouldn't UtahDave be here?)
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17:24 forrest nahamu, sometimes he's busy jetting around the country on his private jet and driving sports cars to training and business engagements
17:24 forrest right UtahDave ?
17:24 forrest :P
17:24 nahamu ah, heh
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17:25 UtahDave lol
17:25 UtahDave I guess if I close my eyes and pretend I'm not in a middle seat I can pretend I'm on a private jet.
17:26 urit joined #salt
17:26 UtahDave and I had a Lyft driver pick me up in a BMW a few weeks ago. That's kind of sporty
17:26 UtahDave Yeah, living the life!  :)
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17:27 JPaul is salt capable of running on Debian 5 (lenny)? primarily the minion
17:27 JPaul I'm not finding anything about installing on deb5 anywhere
17:27 forrest JPaul, wow debian 5? I haven't tried it, what release of python is on there?
17:28 JPaul hmm, lemme check one
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17:28 forrest joehh, are you around?
17:28 forrest oh nevermind it's 3:30 AM in Australia
17:28 UtahDave JPaul: have you tried installing from the saltstack deb repo?
17:29 JPaul Python 2.5.2
17:29 UtahDave JPaul: Ah, Salt needs at least Python 2.6
17:29 JPaul bummer
17:29 JPaul well, we're working on updating them all to deb7 anyway, but that's another process in and of itself
17:30 JPaul we don't ahve a lot left I think
17:31 urit What's a good command to run in a nagios-style health check to determine if a salt master is healthy/able to serve requests?
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17:32 JPaul ah, yeah, we only have about 5 servers left on deb5
17:33 JPaul I can live with that
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17:39 cnf anyone here use DNSimple with salt?
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17:41 alainv Is there a flag to prevent salt from needing to run apt-get update before arbitrary remote command execution?
17:42 KevinMGranger regarding that version requirement, whatever happened to plans for transitioning to python 3? Last I saw the projects was going to start using ZeroMQ's crypto and that would be the last python2-only dependency
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17:42 KevinMGranger Is RAET kinda subverting that?
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17:45 LBJ_6 Conflicting ID 'cmd.run'
17:45 LBJ_6 Does it mean we can not use two cmd.run at the same file?
17:47 Ahlee hobakill: Awesome!
17:48 Ahlee LBJ_6: You can not use two with the same name.  You'll need to define a unique identifier, and then specify the cmd.run as -name:
17:48 Ahlee i.e. my_unique_command: cmd.run: - name: ls -l /tmp
17:48 LBJ_6 thanks  got it
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17:49 Ahlee hrm. anybody got a good howto for passing jinja on the cli?
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17:51 forrest for pillars/
17:51 forrest *?
17:51 forrest Ahlee,
17:53 Ahlee well, I need to be able to pass in "version=1.0.0" to a state, from the cli
17:53 Ahlee and have that rendered into the state
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17:54 Ahlee so, not pillars
17:54 SheetiS you could use a pillar at the command line to do it
17:54 Ahlee That value currently lives in pillars, but must be pulled out and passed in rather than living in pillars
17:54 Ahlee Requirement is to remove pillars from the mix, sadly
17:54 Ahlee oh, hrm.
17:54 Ahlee that might work, as long as that pillar only exists for the length of the command
17:55 SheetiS salt <target> state.sls <state> pillar='{version: 1.0.0}'
17:55 SheetiS something like that should work
17:55 Ahlee i currently pull version=1.0.0 from an ext pillar, need to pull down the ext_pillar
17:55 Ahlee neat, will give that a try
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17:55 forrest Ahlee, did you already try  salt 'minion' state.sls var="1.0.0" ?
17:55 KevinMGranger Yeah, it's better to have a state work well with pillars and just manually override pillars if need be. That gives you flexibility in either direction
17:56 forrest Ahlee, yeah you can overwite the pillar but keep in mind this
17:56 forrest https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/14217
17:56 forrest if there are multiple items within the section, you'll overwrite them all
17:56 forrest if you look at bray's comment
17:56 Ahlee i see
17:57 Ahlee ok.  That's good to know
17:57 SheetiS forrest:  good point.  I forgot to include that.  I'd just always made sure to dodge the issue with how I give pillars on the command line
17:58 forrest SheetiS, yeah usually that's fine, it's just something worth mentioning because it seems stupid it doesn't overwrite just that value :D
17:58 Ahlee i shall namespace my pillar accordingly
17:58 forrest Ahlee, awesome
17:58 SheetiS forrest: agreed.
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18:03 patarr does salt do any security review of their application? There was quite a few sever CVEs dropped.. :(
18:04 LBJ_6 Does anyone know how to validate the salt syntax ?
18:04 LBJ_6 in puppet, we can do puppet parser validate to check it
18:04 rypeck LBJ_6: No other way than running it.
18:04 tk75 LBJ_6, you can do "test=True"
18:04 rypeck AFAIK - I've asked before.
18:05 forrest UtahDave, that should be your next project :P
18:06 forrest add that to the paper towel roll long list of stuff to do
18:06 rypeck Would love to see a salt equivalent of puppet-lnit
18:06 rypeck *lint
18:06 rypeck /pep8
18:06 forrest rypeck, yeah jesusaurus  was working on https://github.com/jesusaurus/salt-shaker
18:07 rypeck ohhh yes
18:07 rypeck I'm one of those pep8 nazis.
18:07 drowe ha, i was gonna say, "call it shaker!"
18:07 rypeck forrest: been inactive - or has he just not gone public?
18:07 forrest inactive
18:07 jesusaurus been inactive
18:07 forrest he just merged something in a month ago
18:07 forrest jesusaurus is a slacker :P
18:08 jesusaurus i havent really been working with salt for the past $while
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18:08 Ahlee https://gist.github.com/jalons/e78df2324c59a24a4c29
18:08 Ahlee no love
18:08 LBJ_6 how many of you think salt is better than puppet?
18:09 forrest well, probably most of us in this channel, but we're pretty biased :P
18:09 Ahlee LBJ_6: Depends on how long it's been since I've hit a bug.
18:09 jesusaurus they both have their strengths and weaknesses
18:09 Ahlee sorry, undocumented feature
18:09 forrest Ahlee, lol
18:10 jesusaurus rypeck: you might also be interested in bashate
18:10 jesusaurus its a bash linter inspired by pep8
18:10 rypeck ah yes. need a list of all the linters.
18:11 rypeck I like linters - as a younger guy because it represents the collective knowledge of older farts who have an opinion on how things should be laid out - saves me from having to make the decision or convince someone of something.
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18:11 Ahlee Oh, do I need a default variable to override
18:11 jesusaurus also, its great for gated testing systems
18:12 forrest Ahlee, you might
18:12 jesusaurus didnt pass the linter? not getting merged.
18:12 Ahlee God that'd be nice.
18:12 rypeck Isn't there a pep8 linting badge for github?
18:12 Ahlee But, as has been discussed it's a hard problem
18:12 rypeck ah yea - http://pep8.me/
18:12 Ahlee I know salt employees WANT to implement, it's just a hard problem
18:13 rypeck can't you set it up to only pep8 changed code?
18:13 rypeck oh wait - no hooks like that on github
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18:19 Ahlee duh.  Need go pillar.get()
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18:26 wedgie are there any gotchas with using salt to manage sudoers files? specifically i'm wanting to add a file under /etc/sudoers.d/. Can I just do a regulare file: -managed or is there something special i need to do to mimic what visudo would do?
18:29 rypeck wedgie: sudoers files are suppose to have special permisisons
18:29 rypeck -r--r-----   1 root root  192 Jul 15 20:41 custom_sudoers
18:29 wedgie rypeck: so just add -user -group  and -mode and it should be fine?
18:29 forrest wedgie, https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/sudoers-formula
18:29 rypeck ^ that
18:29 forrest avoid doing extra work
18:30 wedgie ok, i'll give that a look. Thanks
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18:32 forrest wedgie, yeah np
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18:51 JPaul is there a way to use salt-ssh with a kerberos ticket?
18:55 manfred JPaul: salt-ssh won't initiate one? assuming I remember how kerberos works, i believe you would have to kinit first and then that should allow salt-ssh to connect to the other servers
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18:56 JPaul ok
18:56 JPaul I can use the --askpass option fine, was wondering about the kerberos though
18:56 Ahlee is it possible to do .replace inside of jinja?
18:57 tcotav Ahlee: I think replace is built into jinja
18:57 Ahlee awesome, guess I should have just tried it
18:57 SheetiS http://jinja.pocoo.org/docs/dev/templates/#replace
18:57 SheetiS I think so
18:58 SheetiS You might have to do it hte |replace way that it shows in that link
18:58 Ahlee yep, sure is
18:58 Ahlee huh.
18:58 manfred yeah, you have to use |replace like you do with |format and |reject
18:59 tcotav is that some homage to perl and the placement of random punctuation in commands?
19:00 manfred it jinja is based on python, and they needed something to seperate object functions and just regular functions
19:00 manfred ¯\(°_o)/¯
19:01 manfred or functions that are part of teh object and functions on an object
19:03 tcotav a reasonable explanation, sir :)
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19:11 midacts anyone ever have salt-minions that dont respond unless you restart the salt-minion services? (The salt-minion service is actually running but its like it wont respond until i restart the service if i havne trun a salt command in a few days/hours)[P.S. this is a new install]
19:11 amontalban Hey guys, anyone knows why this doesn't work? http://pastebin.com/tr86tXT1
19:11 amontalban It worked on 2014.7.0-234-g1858114
19:12 amontalban But it's not working on 2014.7.0 nor r0
19:13 amontalban Sorry, RC0
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19:13 SheetiS midacts: I noticed minions being slow to respond, so I added the following cron on the master to help keep the minions 'awake': */5 * * * * salt \* test.ping > /dev/null
19:14 SheetiS usually even if i don't do that, they come back within a minute or 2
19:15 midacts SheetiS: Gotcha. i thought something like that might be the best approach. similar to how i have cron jobs on puppet agents to do their puppet runs every 30 minutes. this just pokes all the salt minions from the salt master
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19:15 amontalban SheetiS: midacts I had that but loaded my server I/O (It was a small instance however), so be aware
19:15 SheetiS midacts: if you want to do the equivalent of a puppet agent run, you could run a salt-call via cron on the minions
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19:17 midacts yah i just noticed that on the saltstak documents (chapter 3.2.5). i ran that `salt-call state.highstate` i think id have to setup a state first i guess
19:17 SheetiS amontalban, midacts:  you could always add a batch size to that if your scale was too big (also run it lest often)
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19:18 SheetiS midacts: yeah you'd need states in your top.sls to apply
19:18 midacts okay. ive not gotten that far into salt yet  :D
19:18 SheetiS */10 * * * * salt -b 25 \* test.ping > /dev/null <== this could be more sane
19:21 MTecknology If I'm using -contents: |  of file.managed, can I still template it with jinja2?
19:21 skyler I just started using salt-cloud, and I am getting this error message: salt-cloud: error: no such option: --json-out
19:21 skyler I see the option in the manpage though.
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19:28 SheetiS skyler: are you wanting --out=json?  https://github.com/saltstack/salt-states/issues/36 looks like man page might be out of date?
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19:32 elzilrac hello! I'm looking to get some help with salt-cloud setting some AWS instances in a vcp- specifically with auto assigning elastic IP's. The parameter 'allocate_new_eips' from http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/cloud/aws.html gives me an "unrecognized parameter" error.
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19:37 SheetiS elzilrac: Looking at the source code, it looks like that feature is not available for 2014.1
19:37 forrest SheetiS, yep confirmed
19:37 SheetiS not in https://github.com/saltstack/salt/blob/2014.1/salt/cloud/clouds/ec2.py but is in https://github.com/saltstack/salt/blob/2014.7/salt/cloud/clouds/ec2.py
19:37 forrest someone forgot versionadd
19:37 forrest SheetiS, I've got to head out, could you please either update it, or make an issue to update it?
19:38 forrest if you search for versionadded in the repo you can see how to add it.
19:38 SheetiS sure
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19:46 dstokes i'm seeing empty minion log files after logrotation. does salt manage it's own fd updates or do we have to modify logrotate config to sig on rotation?
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19:52 skyler SheetiS: Thanks, that's what I was looking for.
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20:07 SheetiS skyler: glad to help
20:07 SheetiS forrest: I issued a pull request for the change.
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20:13 amontalban Anyone knows when the former changd to last? {{ pillar['data'] }} vs {{ salt['pillar.get']('data') }}
20:13 amontalban Is the last the "supported" way?
20:13 SheetiS amontalban: both work, but the second allows you to specify a default if pillar['data'] doesn't exist.
20:14 KennethWilke as would pillar.get('data', 'default_value_here')
20:15 amontalban SheetiS: former is failing on me
20:15 rypeck what should the spacing be for sls files? two spaces? four spaces?
20:15 amontalban I tried 2014.1 and 2014.7
20:15 kater169 hi, i have a problem with salt cloud and aws. It seams that the volumes i added to a profile, are attached after the states are performed? Is that possible? I use the lastest stable version of salt.
20:15 KennethWilke rypeck, i think it's just whatever the yaml standard is, which is 1+ spaces
20:15 amontalban It worked before, but don't know why it doesn't now
20:15 SheetiS amontalban: I would guess that if {{ pillar['data'] }} is failing that 'data' doesn't exist in your pillar.
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20:16 KennethWilke i always go with 2 spaces though
20:16 amontalban SheetiS: it exists
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20:16 KennethWilke amontalban, in jinja pillar.data will also do the trick i believe
20:17 amontalban It worked before, I just copied and pasted the state and pillar files from another implementation
20:17 KennethWilke do you get an error when you do pillar['data']?
20:17 amontalban KennethWilke: http://pastebin.com/tr86tXT1
20:18 KennethWilke yeah that should only be true if your pillar doesn't have a 'www_rootdir' key
20:18 KennethWilke if you do a `salt node pillar.items` do you see that key in your returned data?
20:21 amontalban KennethWilke: No I don't
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20:22 amontalban KennethWilke: I have the pillar distributed in this way: http://pastebin.com/kAxcbmGA
20:22 amontalban Currently testing on a masterless node
20:23 KennethWilke yeah so that error makes sense, if you want the state to still work when that data isn't in pillar i would suggest using something like {{ pillar.get('www_rootdir', '/var/www') }}
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20:25 KennethWilke the way you have your pillar_roots structured is for multiple environments, you may want to have all of your pillar data in base if this is all for a single environment
20:25 KennethWilke otherwise whats in pillar will depend on what environment your server is being matched against
20:26 MTecknology Hrm... can I check the type of something in jinja2? Say... {% if type(foo) == tuple %}
20:27 KennethWilke this article might help clarify that a little bit http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/top.html#environments
20:27 MTecknology I guess that should be s/==/is/
20:27 KennethWilke MTecknology, that should work, they also include the isinstance() python function into the salt jinja environment
20:27 KennethWilke like in normal jinja isinstance() isn't defined, but in salt they add a lot of useful stuff into the jinja environment
20:28 MTecknology but type() doesn't seem to be available in jinja
20:28 KennethWilke ah, you can use isinstance in about the same way
20:28 KennethWilke {% if isinstance({}, dict) %}
20:29 MTecknology UndefinedError: 'isinstance' is undefined
20:29 MTecknology is that definitely available in jinja2?
20:29 KennethWilke are you testing that in jinja outside of salt?
20:29 MTecknology ya
20:29 KennethWilke yeah in default jinja there's almost nothing in there
20:30 MTecknology ooooh
20:30 SheetiS MTecknology: I think you can use tuple|iterable
20:30 SheetiS that should work in pure jinja
20:30 MTecknology I'll try that
20:30 MTecknology thanks both :D
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20:32 kvt Hi folks
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20:32 kvt I'm trying to use salt-ssh 2014.1.10
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20:33 kvt it works ok with salt-states on local filesystem, but I can't use gitfs
20:34 kvt fileserver_backend:   - git gitfs_remotes:   - git+ssh://kirill.timofeev@git.hulu.com/repos/salt-states-base.git
20:34 kvt this doesn't work
20:35 kvt ["No matching sls found for 'resolv' in env 'base'"]
20:35 kvt I'm getting this error message
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20:36 kvt any idea waht can be wrong with configuration?
20:36 SheetiS is your private ssh key in the .ssh/id_rsa or whatever for the user that the salt-master is running as?
20:36 kvt yes
20:36 kvt ssh works ok
20:36 dude051 joined #salt
20:36 kvt and salt-ssh works ok if using local filesystem
20:36 SheetiS also, is GitPython installed?
20:37 kvt ii  python-git                       0.3.2~RC1-3precise1               Python library to interact with Git repositories
20:37 kvt I have this
20:37 kvt do I need to install something different?
20:37 KennethWilke hmmmm that module is version-picky
20:38 kvt should I install different version via pip?
20:38 KennethWilke i think 3.2 is fine though just not < 3.0.0
20:38 kvt ok
20:38 SheetiS That version is what I have (rhel/epel equivalent anyhow)
20:38 kvt I'm on ubuntu 12.04
20:39 KennethWilke wheres your top.sls for that server?
20:39 KennethWilke in gitfs or on the local filesystem
20:39 occupant joined #salt
20:40 KennethWilke you can try a `salt node state.show_top` to see if the topfile is matching the state you expect it to
20:40 kvt pillar/top.sls
20:40 kvt in repository
20:41 SheetiS the pillar has its own top.sls separate of the states.
20:41 rojem joined #salt
20:41 manfred kvt: did this work on a previous version and just broke on 2014.1.10? i didn't think we had gitfs in 2014.1.10 for salt-ssh, but i am probably wrong on that... might have been ext_pillars
20:41 manfred ¯\(°_o)/¯
20:42 kvt this is 1st time I try to configure this
20:42 kvt no experience with previous versions
20:43 kvt I don't have 'salt' command on this box
20:43 kvt only salt-ssh, salt-call and salt-minion
20:44 manfred i kvt not fixed yet https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/9735
20:44 kvt I see...
20:45 pled76 joined #salt
20:45 kvt thanks
20:45 kvt so local filesystem is only option for me until this is fixed, right?
20:45 SheetiS That or use the salt-master/salt-minion relationship
20:46 SheetiS instead of ssh
20:46 kvt I want to use salt-ssh :)
20:46 SheetiS I know it's not possible for everyone in every case
20:46 SheetiS :D
20:46 kvt oh well
20:46 kvt thanks for your help folks!
20:47 KennethWilke good luck kvt!
20:49 skyler I am trying to use salt-cloud with a local openstack icehouse setup. I keep getting errors back from the controller that say: "get_version_v2() got an unexpected keyword argument \'auth\'"
20:49 skyler Anyone know why that might be?
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20:57 amontalban KennethWilke: I'm a #FAILURE I changed the server hostname and forgot to update my pillar's top.sls. Please excuse me for the time lost! :(
20:59 KennethWilke lol no worries
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21:04 elzilrac SheetiS: thank you for the note about which version elastic IP's is in! Much appreciated.
21:06 kater169 hi, i have a problem with salt cloud and aws. It seams that the volumes i added to a profile, are attached after the states are performed? Is that possible? I use the lastest stable version of salt.
21:06 SheetiS elzilrac: no problem
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21:11 MTecknology How do you check if something is iterable? I thought it was just {% if foo|iterable %}
21:12 aparsons joined #salt
21:12 MTecknology no filter named 'iterable'  ... so that's for filters, not tests
21:14 KennethWilke MTecknology, i found this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/11947325/testing-for-a-list-in-jinja2
21:14 KennethWilke maybe kinda similar to what you'd like to do
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21:15 UtahDave hola, KennethWilke!
21:16 MTecknology KennethWilke: I don't want to define a custom filter, but maybe I have to. :(
21:16 KennethWilke UtahDave!
21:16 KennethWilke nah i don't think you have to
21:16 KennethWilke that's just kinda in line with the filter-based approach
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21:17 KennethWilke i know there's a way to add things like built-ins into your own jinja env
21:17 KennethWilke we could check to see how salt does it!
21:17 MTecknology I really just want to know if foo[1] has anything to use in the template
21:17 MTecknology foo is 'probably' a tuple, but might not be
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21:18 KennethWilke yeah that makes sense i've had to do the same
21:18 KennethWilke but i've just gotten used to salt including those things and don't use jinja too much outside of salt
21:18 rypeck Is it possible to have the settings in /etc/salt/master.d/* not override other file settings but add to them?
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21:18 sivakalyanc Hello everyone...
21:19 sivakalyanc we currently use puppet enterprise.. we are thinking to move to salt
21:19 KennethWilke oh you'll be so happy if you do :p
21:19 sivakalyanc does any one know an estimate cost for the saltstack enterprise?
21:20 KennethWilke hmm UtahDave or basepi might know who can answer that for you
21:21 UtahDave sivakalyanc: I can put you in contact with someone who can give you a quote.  Want to pm me your contact info?
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21:23 sivakalyanc @UtahDave: Will do. Thank you.
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21:26 MTecknology KennethWilke: {% if foo is iterable %}  <-- that's the magic ticket
21:26 KennethWilke MTecknology, oo that'll do nicel
21:29 KennethWilke MTecknology, i put together this nasty thing to add some of the builtins and make jinja use them
21:29 KennethWilke http://pastebin.com/mtczmNsZ
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21:30 KennethWilke i didn't know list wasn't defined in normal jinja, so added that to the scope too
21:31 blackhelmethacke joined #salt
21:31 SheetiS MTecknology, KennethWilke:  This is nasty, but might be a native jinja way to test for a list: http://pastebin.com/PFKrTDp9
21:31 CeBe joined #salt
21:31 KennethWilke SheetiS, mines nastier! :p
21:32 SheetiS since dicts and strings are considered iterable, eliminate them and just left with tuple, list
21:32 SheetiS KennethWilke: :)
21:32 KennethWilke yeah that's good
21:32 rypeck Is it possible to maintain two different directories for base a salt/pillar - or are you only supposed to have one?
21:33 UtahDave rypeck: you can have as many directories as you want.
21:33 KennethWilke rypeck, you can have different paths for different environments: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/top.html#environments
21:33 KennethWilke and what UtahDave said
21:33 UtahDave and each environment, including base, can take a list of directories.
21:33 floWenoL_ is it possible to use the mine to get data from grains?
21:34 UtahDave Salt will search through each listed directory in order for the requested file
21:34 SheetiS floWenoL_: yes definitely.  I do that regularly.
21:34 KennethWilke yeah you can run grains.items or similar via mine if you wanted to
21:34 floWenoL_ SheetiS: can you provide a quick example
21:34 floWenoL_ im not being able to fetch it
21:34 SheetiS I'll get you a paste of my mine functions
21:34 SheetiS one second
21:34 floWenoL_ my bet goes against the mine functions
21:34 floWenoL_ SheetiS: ty
21:35 aparsons joined #salt
21:35 SheetiS It's super easy to get grains.items in your mine functions: http://pastebin.com/DDMTFt0B
21:36 _|d0m|_ joined #salt
21:38 floWenoL_ SheetiS: so that will be all the grains?
21:38 SheetiS all the grains, yes
21:39 SheetiS if you want to limit them and have more than 1 grain included, you will find the support in 2014.1 lacking.  2014.7 handles it better, but I find it easy enough to navigate the grains.items dictionary for what I want with Jinja.
21:40 floWenoL_ SheetiS: also how do I know what functions I van use on the mine functions
21:40 floWenoL_ like network.ip_addrs: [eth0]
21:41 SheetiS I haven't looked at it recently.  I just put everything I want to share in my grains right now, so bad SA no cookie for me.
21:41 floWenoL_ is it me or the docs sometimes are lacking
21:41 floWenoL_ and kind of disperse
21:42 SheetiS What I use it for is a nagios server formula I'm working on that automatically generates checks for all minions with the nagios.nrpe role.  I hope to extend it to add more specific tests based on other roles as well.
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21:43 SheetiS floWenoL_: The docs are definitely improving, but they are not perfect.  I sometimes find myself browsing through code for a particular item to see how to do what I want.
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21:51 murrdoc :) welcome to salt
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21:58 urit Is it possible to call modules somehow from a reactor's jinja?
21:59 Zachary_DuBois joined #salt
21:59 urit I've got a line like this and it fails to render: {% if 'act' in data and data['act'] == 'pend' and salt['realserver.verify'](data['id']) %}
22:00 urit realserver.verify is a custom module I wrote to go talk to EC2/SoftLayer and see if the minion is actually a member of my cloud services
22:00 urit and it returns True or False appropriately if I call it with salt-call
22:01 Zachary_DuBois What is the recomened way in Salt to run apt-get update & upgrade & dist-upgrade with states
22:02 rypeck UtahDave: I take it the directories all have to be in the same salt or pillar folder though?
22:02 SheetiS urit: I've found that few things are accessible with the reactor.  What version of salt are you running?
22:02 urit 2014.1.10
22:03 UtahDave rypeck: no, they can be anywhere on the master's filesystem, that the user the salt-master service is running has access to
22:03 SheetiS Hmm you can add a pillar kwarg to a state that would get you there in 2014.7
22:03 SheetiS I had to kinda 'hack' in my reactor for 2014.1
22:04 SheetiS I had to make a bash script that called the module from the command line with data['id'] passed into $1. and then cmd.run it
22:04 SheetiS Let me see if I can find an example.
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22:09 SheetiS urit: something like this http://pastebin.com/4uf3Sxpp
22:10 SheetiS I had to sanitize it a lot, so I may have broken something
22:10 SheetiS but that's how i had to do it, since I couldn't pass a pillar
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22:14 floWenoL_ im guessing I cant use pillar data to define grains dynamically
22:15 Zachary_DuBois Would http://hastebin.com/wakeyirome.yml be able to proporly upgrade the system's packages?
22:15 SheetiS floWenoL_: I do just that
22:16 floWenoL_ I just tried and got syntax error
22:16 SheetiS http://devop.ninja/configuration%20management/2014/08/25/the-grains-conundrum/
22:16 SheetiS look at that for what I did
22:16 SheetiS It might not be the best way to handle it, but it worked for what I needed.
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22:23 floWenoL_ SheetiS: so the overstate system allows me to define some order on what servers the states are applied?
22:23 wendall911 joined #salt
22:24 floWenoL_ so I can run on my webservers first and then the load balancer
22:24 SheetiS yes absolutely you could do that in an orchestration
22:24 SheetiS or an overstate
22:24 floWenoL_ orchestration and overstate is not the same?
22:24 aberdine joined #salt
22:24 SheetiS They are very similar, but not the same thing.
22:25 floWenoL_ and applying everything can just be done on a state.highstate ?
22:26 SheetiS well you could orchestrate highstates as well
22:26 SheetiS a highstate is everything on one minion
22:27 murrdoc joined #salt
22:27 SheetiS so if you wanted to run the highstate on all of your web servers first, and then after they complete run on your lb, you could use an orchestration for that.
22:27 SheetiS if you just salt \* state.highstate, it will try and apply all applicable states to all minions in parallel
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22:28 murrdoc are there 2014.7.0  packages available ?
22:29 floWenoL_ SheetiS: but then i would run the orchestration and not the highstate?
22:30 SheetiS Correct.
22:30 floWenoL_ and the orchestration may then run the highstates
22:31 SheetiS I put all of my orchestrations in /srv/salt/orchestration and give them <name>.sls.  Then I can salt-run state.orchestrate orchestration.<name>.
22:31 SheetiS notice that you use salt-run to call an orchestration and not just salt.
22:32 KyleG1 joined #salt
22:32 floWenoL_ SheetiS: can an orchestraion call another
22:33 SheetiS possibly with a cmd.run on a 'salt-run state.orchestrate' targeting the master, but I've not thought of doing that.  I don't know if there is another way to do it.
22:34 murrdoc the orchestration state could do a require
22:34 murrdoc to have a precursor orchestration
22:34 floWenoL_ my goal is to have a main orchestration
22:35 SheetiS murrdoc: good idea
22:36 SheetiS I'm just never sure what is all possible from an orchestration context (same with reactor) as it's not quite like a normal state.
22:37 SheetiS One thing that I don't think orchestrations support is batching, which can be problematic on larger installs
22:37 catpigger joined #salt
22:37 SheetiS if you have > 500 minions, you might bring your salt-master to its knees
22:38 urit can custom runners be loaded into gitfs like with the _modules/_states folder? Is there _runners too?
22:39 dlam joined #salt
22:40 dlam hey how do you manually connect a minion to a master?  im a noob whos only used that bootstrap-salt.sh script
22:41 SheetiS urit: Looks like not yet: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/12511
22:42 urit dlam: assuming you've installed the packages, then set the master hostname in the minion's minion file (/etc/salt/minion) and then call anything with salt-call restart the salt minion service, then accept the key on the master
22:42 urit salt-call or restart the minion service, I mean
22:42 urit SheetiS: thanks
22:44 SheetiS urit: no problem.
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22:54 dlam ooo cool thx thx
22:54 urit SheetiS: I think I figured out what I needed to do - since the "py" renderer is in 2014.1, then I might be able to just import the correct modules from python-land and go about it that way
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23:00 wedgie trying to install various packages on centos and get an error like this for each: The following package(s) were not found, and no possible matches were found in the package db: vim   I suspect that this is because I have a web proxy. I've put http_proxy in /etc/environment but i'm not sure if salt is reading it. How can i see the environment of the minion?
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23:07 Eugene wedgie - `vim` is not an actual package in CentOSland; you want `vim-enhanced`
23:07 Eugene That package is marked as providing `vim`, but the pkg.installed module(for whatever reason) can't figure that out.
23:08 Ove_ Let's say I have a staging enviroment and I provide a file like: salt://nginx-stg-api/nginx.conf.. Would it look in the staging dir or in the dir for base states?
23:08 wedgie Eugene: i see... ok, i'll play with that
23:09 arpunk joined #salt
23:11 Ove_ I just found out the answer to my question.
23:12 aparsons_ joined #salt
23:13 wedgie still get this: The following packages failed to install/update: vim-enhanced.
23:14 forrest wedgie, what do you get on the actual server?
23:14 forrest if you just do a yum install
23:14 wedgie forrest: i get the list of dependencies and the 'Is this ok?' prompt
23:15 wedgie if i say yes it goes ahead and downloads and installs
23:15 forrest wedgie, try salt 'minion' pkg.installed  vim-enhanced
23:15 forrest wedgie, can you gist your state that installs vim?
23:16 wedgie and i should note that is't not just vim. I should also note that this is my first time trying this stuff so i'm likely screwing up something basic
23:16 wedgie forrest: sec, i'll get it posted
23:16 forrest wedgie, no worries, that's why I was asking to see your state file.
23:17 forrest wedgie, also I assume vim was NOT installed prior to you just installing it correct?
23:17 wedgie correct
23:17 forrest ok
23:17 UtahDave wedgie: what version of centos and what version of salt?
23:19 wedgie forrest: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ec92d46b3e37c1260292
23:19 wedgie UtahDave: centos6.4, salt-minion 2014.1.7
23:19 wedgie installed from epel a few hours ago
23:19 forrest wedgie, what's with the .x86_64?
23:19 forrest you're passing that through to the system and it works?
23:19 wedgie forrest: was getting desperate :P
23:19 forrest wedgie, ok
23:20 forrest wedgie, but before it was just vim-enhanced?
23:20 wedgie no, when i did it manually was just with vim-enhanced
23:20 forrest was the state ever just vim-enhanced?
23:20 captzeb1 hey can I have statement of the form: {% for server, ip in salt['mine.get']("grains['Stack']-pillar['stuff']*",'network.ip_addrs').items() %}?
23:20 captzeb1 I feel like that would drive jinja insane
23:20 wedgie yes, tried vim-enhanced in the state
23:21 forrest wedgie, odd, ok I've added a comment, please put this in a new state file, and try running it.
23:21 wedgie all of the listed packages fail. Which is why i suspect that salt-minion isn't using my proxy
23:21 wedgie ok
23:22 forrest wedgie, Yeah that is probably the culprit, we had some issues with that previously. I'm trying to remember if someone had a solution for centos
23:23 aparsons joined #salt
23:23 wedgie lol, tells me that it is already installed, of course. Uninstalling first and trying again...
23:23 forrest wedgie, ok
23:23 skullone is nested jinja if statements an accepted way to go about things?
23:23 Sawgs joined #salt
23:23 forrest skullone, accepted yes, recommended ehhhhhh preferably not
23:24 skullone well, like if centos, and os release 7
23:24 skullone unless theres a cleaner way of doing it
23:24 catpigger joined #salt
23:24 wedgie forrest: same: Comment: The following packages failed to install/update: vim-enhanced.
23:24 forrest wedgie, awesome.
23:24 forrest wedgie, alright, are you running the minion as the root user?
23:25 wedgie yes
23:25 forrest wedgie, on the minion try this salt-call state.sls 'name_of_vim_state'
23:25 forrest minus the quotes
23:25 forrest whatever you named that test vim state
23:26 DrQuest joined #salt
23:27 skullone i almost want compound matches in jinja for this case
23:27 forrest skullone, can you not match in the top file?
23:28 skullone well, i want the same state to work for multiple OS versions
23:28 wedgie No matching sls found for 'install_vim' in env 'base'
23:28 forrest skullone, gotcha
23:28 oz_akan joined #salt
23:28 forrest wedgie, was that the name of the sls file? install_vim.sls?
23:28 forrest wedgie, you can try the other state you had as well (minus that x.86_64 thing)
23:29 wedgie it's init.sls
23:29 forrest inside of a specific directory?
23:29 wedgie /srv/salt/testbox/init.sls
23:29 forrest so you'd want to apply it as salt-call state.sls testbox
23:30 wedgie oh, i see
23:30 skullone maybe a map file is what i want, actually
23:30 forrest skullone, yeah it seems like it
23:30 forrest there are some example ones based on OS, you could probably modify them as well
23:30 forrest for release
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23:32 wedgie forrest: that appears to be working...
23:33 forrest wedgie, ok then, it's an issue with how the master is doing the call it seems. Can you please create an issue detailing the problem, providing the output from both machines, and the output of salt-call --version on both the minion and master?
23:34 forrest wedgie, that's dumb, I haven't seen a proxy related problem like that in a while, not sure what happened
23:35 wedgie hmm, how important is it that master and minion be on the same version?
23:35 forrest wedgie, if you want to get around it in the mean time, a 'cmd.run' that calls yum install zxcv might work
23:35 forrest wedgie, very important
23:35 forrest are they different?
23:36 wedgie oh. well crap. That is likely causing problems then. Now I feel dumb
23:36 forrest wedgie, it happens
23:36 forrest wedgie, if you can, get them on the same release, restart both services, and then try to reapply your state from the master :D
23:36 forrest better that than having to open an issue that's for sure
23:36 zach oh hey forrest
23:36 forrest zach, hi
23:36 zach ltns
23:36 forrest zach, I am around every day :P
23:37 zach I'm not :(
23:37 forrest haha
23:37 wedgie forrest: will do. Thanks a lot for your support.
23:38 forrest wedgie, yeah of course man, I don't want people to get frustrated right out of the gate.
23:38 forrest that's just soul crushing
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23:46 forrest wedgie, also as a heads up that 'name' item I used in my example, you can use that almost anywhere. It's really helpful if you get in the habit of using it starting out, then you can do something like setup_my_config and then - name: /etc/path/to/config/why/so/far.conf
23:47 forrest wedgie, makes it a lot easier to troubleshoot when things are going wrong, or know what is happening. It's just a semantics thing, but it's great if you work with other people.
23:52 wedgie forrest: ok, i'll do that. May as well get in good habits now so i don't have to change stuff later :)
23:52 forrest wedgie, yeah it's not a big deal, it's just easier to read later on after you've forgotten what something does :P
23:52 forrest but I'm also an idiot that can't remember things, so I find it handy!
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