Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2014-11-22

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Time Nick Message
00:00 Saw joined #salt
00:02 Saw hi, I'm new to configuration management software, and was wondering how the result architecture, assuming i'm using salt, is suppose to be. My initial thought was to use CM so i'll have some sort of recipe or w/e for a node i'll want, and be able to create one easily, with as few commands as possible.
00:03 Saw However, then I noticed salt has a master, which might fail too; meaning I might need to create more than one of it as well; but I can't do that using salt, so i'm a bit stuck. Am I confusing something here?
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00:07 Ryan_Lane Saw: you don't have to use a master
00:07 Ryan_Lane I run masterless, for instance
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00:08 Saw Ryan_Lane - where will the recipes(states?) come from then?
00:08 Ryan_Lane if you do happen to use a master, there's multi-master. you can use an external job cache and a default returner as well
00:10 Saw Ryan_Lane - quick reading from salt masterless quickstart ( http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/tutorials/quickstart.html ) seems to indicate the files needs to be stored locally.
00:10 Ryan_Lane yep
00:10 Ryan_Lane I deploy them
00:11 Ryan_Lane I have a deployer running in cron (you could also use the salt minion scheduler) that checks to see if a deployment is needed
00:11 Saw Ryan_Lane - I have to say I don't like either options. Masterless means the scripts can't be updated (automatically). And multi-master has the same problem as master with me - I need to deploy more masters (when needed) manually.
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00:11 Ryan_Lane why can't they be updated?
00:11 Ryan_Lane if you deploy the files, they're updated
00:12 Saw Ryan_Lane - if you're creating a job (e.g. cron) to do so, then yes. but who's watching the cron job doesn't fail? ..
00:12 Ryan_Lane it'll send a cron email if it does
00:12 Saw Ryan_Lane - .. sounds worse to be honest :P
00:13 Ryan_Lane it's pretty great
00:13 Ryan_Lane <3 masterless
00:13 Saw Ryan_Lane - besides, you're assuming it fails in a managed way, which isn't always true. What if it dies due to system resources? I doubt you'll get that email (w/e cron email is :P)
00:13 Ryan_Lane if that happens then my autoscaling group will terminate the node
00:13 Ryan_Lane and a new one will replace it
00:13 Saw autoscaling group? what's that?
00:14 Ryan_Lane I use AWS
00:14 Ryan_Lane (amazon web services)
00:14 Saw a system behind a system :S
00:15 Saw Ryan_Lane - Is there a way to deploy a salt master (part of a salt multi-master) using states?
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00:16 Ryan_Lane yep. the entirety can be automated
00:16 Ryan_Lane (this is actually one of the reasons I like masterless)
00:16 Ryan_Lane no matter what my process is always exactly the same
00:16 Ryan_Lane my bootstrapping is the same as a normal deployment process
00:17 Saw Ryan_Lane - which is? (1) create node (2) deploy files(states?) (3) run them (which will only run them if needed, rather than overwrite) ?
00:17 Saw Note: above is a guess :P
00:17 Ryan_Lane mostly, yes
00:17 Ryan_Lane Saw: http://ryandlane.com/blog/2014/08/26/saltstack-masterless-bootstrapping/
00:20 Saw Ryan_Lane - how difficult is(was, I'm guessing) it to create states that shouldn't overwrite anything if running a second time?
00:20 Ryan_Lane easy
00:20 Saw Ryan_Lane - I believe I came across you're blog, and that post specifically as well. I'm afraid there are too much technological terminology for me, as a beginner in configuration management and salt as well.
00:20 Ryan_Lane all of the states that come with salt are idempotent. execution modules aren't, but you generally don't need to use them
00:21 Saw Ryan_Lane - I have to ask then, why not simply use multi-mater? you can redeploy more masters if needed, and you don't need a cron job to update/deploy the states.
00:21 Saw multi-master*
00:21 Ryan_Lane we didn't want a master, because then we need to deal with scaling masters if we add a lot of nodes
00:21 Ryan_Lane it's a point of failure we don't really need
00:21 Ryan_Lane we'll probably add a master for remote execution at some point, but we've been operating OK without it so far
00:22 Saw Ryan_Lane - why? shouldn't the number of masters be relative to the number of nodes starting/updating at the same time, rather than the number of nodes you currently have up and running?
00:22 Ryan_Lane more minions is more load on the masters
00:22 Ryan_Lane you may hit a wall when you scale
00:23 Saw Ryan_Lane - also, you're single point failure is simply distributed; each node has a cron job, which is your single point of failure. I don't know about aws enough, but I believe that cron job can fail without you getting your email, nor aws creating another node.
00:23 Ryan_Lane we create autoscaling groups
00:23 Ryan_Lane the autoscaling groups automatically manage creating and deleting nodes
00:23 joehoyle Ryan_Lane: interesting read - but I didn't get fro you post how each ec2 server "knows" about a new deployment? is highstate called on cron or something?
00:23 Ryan_Lane cron only deploys to nodes that already exist
00:24 Saw Note: I know distributed single point of failure isn't really single pointer of failure, but the master falling isn't either; nodes can still run without it (I hope so anyway, don't see why not); Just not upgrade/create new nodes.
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00:24 Ryan_Lane joehoyle: we check to see if the artifact deployed on the system is listed as the current artifact defined in S3
00:24 joehoyle Ryan_Lane: and that's just a periodic check with cron?
00:24 Ryan_Lane Saw: not being able to create new nodes is really, really bad
00:25 Ryan_Lane joehoyle: yep. we're looking at more efficient ways of doing that now, but that's the general idea
00:25 joehoyle cool
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00:25 Ryan_Lane Saw: when you're depending on autoscaling, if you can't scale you'll have an outage at peaks
00:25 Saw Ryan_Lane - Yeah, but assuming you have multi-master, the chances of that happens.. and even if so, you only need to create another master.
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00:26 joehoyle Ryan_Lane: this approach I guess you don't have "control" all the servers from one place (sinse no master), what happens when you need to update a package across all servers?
00:26 Ryan_Lane joehoyle: we do deployments.
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00:26 joehoyle ah i see
00:27 joehoyle so you use deploymnts for security updates etc to the system?
00:27 Ryan_Lane yep
00:27 Ryan_Lane we do use fabric a small amount
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00:27 joehoyle ok cool
00:27 Ryan_Lane this is one of the reasons I want to use a master. just for remote execution
00:27 Saw Ryan_Lane - also, you're autoscaling is coming from aws, not salt. Assuming you weren't using AWS, you had the same problem.
00:27 Ryan_Lane Saw: well, then I'd use OpenStack and Heat
00:28 Saw I heard about OpenStack, not about Heat. Guess it's time for my reading.
00:28 Ryan_Lane let the infrastructure manage itself. manage how that happens using salt :)
00:28 Ryan_Lane heat is an openstack project
00:28 Ryan_Lane I really should have said openstack nova and heat
00:29 Saw Ryan_Lane - any chance you can sum the use of both in a sentence ? OpenStack seems to have a lot of components :P
00:30 Ryan_Lane nova manages virtual machines
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00:30 Ryan_Lane heat lets you define workflows (like autoscaling) that affect other openstack services
00:30 Ryan_Lane neutron is the networking piece of openstack
00:30 Ryan_Lane keystone is the authentication/authorization piece
00:31 Ryan_Lane glance manages virtual machine images
00:31 Saw Ryan_Lane - I can see them all ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStack#Components ) ; why did you list only Nova & Heat though? are other implicitly used or not needed?
00:31 Ryan_Lane you have to use keystone no matter what
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00:31 Ryan_Lane glance is necessary if you use nova
00:31 Ryan_Lane nuetron is technically optional
00:34 Ryan_Lane openstack is kind of a pain to setup. salt has formulas for it
00:34 Saw Ryan_Lane - OpenStack just seems bigger to me. Then again, I haven't used any.
00:35 skyler_ Ryan_Lane: Do the formulas work well?
00:35 Ryan_Lane haven't tried them
00:35 Ryan_Lane I'm not using openstack now
00:35 Saw Ryan_Lane - Also, though, salt isn't good enough, assuming I don't use aws.
00:35 Ryan_Lane I disagree
00:36 Ryan_Lane I think it works well. I used it on hardware at wikimedia foundation (wikipedia)
00:36 Saw Ryan_Lane - Last question(~): How easy is it to set up salt using a single computers for virtual machines, in case i'll need to recreate them or something, and is it even worth it?
00:36 skyler_ I am going to have a coworker start building some salt formulas for individual services, because we have had such a pain setting up openstack. (I have set it up about ten times now...)
00:36 Ryan_Lane Saw: using a single computer?
00:37 Ryan_Lane not sure what you mean
00:37 Ryan_Lane ah.
00:37 Ryan_Lane you mean in vagrant or something?
00:37 Saw Ryan_Lane - yeah, single computer*
00:37 skyler_ Here is a mailing list email I started, looking for ideas if anyone wants to give input on how they would like the formulas to be: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/salt-formulas/8XV3jQta8fg
00:37 Ryan_Lane the difficulty there is vagrant more than salt
00:37 Saw Ryan_Lane - no, simply virtual machines. virtual box.
00:37 Ryan_Lane that's easy enough
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00:38 Saw Ryan_Lane - m.. I didn't know vagrant before by the way. From a quick description of it, it seems good. Should I use it?
00:40 skyler_ I just wish virtual box wasn't the default provider for vagrant...
00:41 Saw Ryan_Lane - ha I gotta go. Anyway thanks a lot for the information, it was very helpful. I'll be sure to read your blog as well, probably more in the future. Thanks, later.
00:42 joehoyle skyler_: pro tip: vmware... kinda
00:43 skyler_ joehoyle: I was thinking kvm
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00:44 joehoyle ah, i'm os x
00:44 skyler_ joehoyle: Ah. I haven't tried vagrant in a while. Last time I did, I didn't know about providers and I just suffered while virtual box failed to work... Then I gave up.
00:45 skyler_ Next time will be better.
00:45 joehoyle yeah, vb is tough!
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01:29 aw110f is it possible to have salt retry running a state for a specific amount of trial based on some conditions?
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01:30 aw110f I'm trying to leverage salt as a job scheduler for some DB ETL process and command execution
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05:52 ckng hi, is there a standard practice on how to handle private key distribution to minion? pillar should be the place to do it, by pointing to a path?
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07:27 babilen ckng: No pointing to a path (yet), but simply a pillar with a string literal. Use something like: https://www.refheap.com/93756 or write a simple pillar in Python that reads the file from disk and returns it's value in a dictionary from the run() function
07:28 babilen You'd use it with file.managed's "content_pillar" in both cases
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07:30 ckng babilen: thanks, will the yaml have problem with 2048bit key, in term of the length?
07:31 babilen It won't
07:31 babilen Just don't forget the ": |" in there and to use indent by 2 (!) spaces
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07:33 ckng where can i find reference to the "content_pillar" in the online doc
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07:35 ckng babilen: ^ could not find anything on "content_pillar"
07:39 babilen https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/18406
07:39 babilen ckng: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.file.html#salt.states.file.managed → contents_pillar
07:41 ckng babilen: thanks, search turns up nothing, and there is the example
07:44 babilen It is contents_pillar not content_pillar
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08:15 crocket When I execute salt, I see https://bpaste.net/show/7bdfedd494dc
08:15 crocket Can anyone help me debug the issue?
08:15 crocket It says "NameError: global name 'zmq' is not defined"
08:16 crocket It used to work fine yesterday.
08:16 crocket After installing docker.io on ubuntu, it was broken.
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08:21 crocket Damn
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08:30 babilen crocket: Please paste your /var/log/apt/history.log
08:30 babilen (of the box in question)
08:30 crocket babilen, https://bpaste.net/show/d82710f9890e
08:32 babilen aptdaemon role='role-commit-packages' sender=':1.112' (whatever that is) upgraded libzmq
08:35 crocket babilen, So do I need to reinstall pyzmq?
08:37 crocket babilen, Reinstalling pyzmq solved the issue.
08:37 crocket What a nutjob
08:37 crocket Upgrading libzmq breaks pyzmq.
08:37 crocket salt depends onpyzmq.
08:37 crocket salt depends on pyzmq.
08:37 crocket This is a customer service disaster waiting to happen.
08:37 babilen I have no clue, just wanted to point out that it seems as if you performed an action that is *much* more likely to have caused this problem
08:38 crocket babilen, 'apt-get install docker.io' caused the upgrade of libzmq.
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08:40 crocket babilen, It means pyzmq is fragile.
08:40 babilen You seem to have installed a version of libzmq3 that is not in the Ubuntu archive. Mind running 'head -v -n -0 /etc/apt/sources.list{,.d/*}" and pasting the output of that along with that of "apt-cache policy libzmq3 docker.io" ?
08:43 crocket babilen, https://bpaste.net/show/8ecdc89b10e7 and https://bpaste.net/show/08dae3c2e489
08:43 babilen It's okay to use a single pastebin in the future
08:44 babilen You seenm to be using a totally unsupported and, obviously, broken PPA: http://ppa.launchpad.net/chris-lea/zeromq/ubuntu/
08:44 crocket babilen, doesn't matter.
08:44 babilen Oh, and that sources.list is ludicrous.
08:44 crocket babilen, pyzmq is fragile.
08:44 babilen I will not support that (nor would #ubuntu or, I guess, #salt)
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08:45 babilen Your Ubuntu setup is insane and totally unsupportable
08:45 babilen Anyway, have fun.
08:45 crocket babilen, The fact is that once you upgrade libzmq, pyzmq breaks until reinstall.
08:45 crocket That's what matters.
08:46 crocket Anything else is a distraction.
08:46 babilen No, you install a broken third-party package and that broke the system
08:46 crocket babilen, pyzmq used to refer to libzmq.so.3, and the new version replaces libzmq.so.3 with libzmq.so.4
08:46 crocket It might be better if it referred to libzmq.so
08:46 babilen I really don't care, I will not support that abomination.
08:47 crocket babilen, Abomination?
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08:47 babilen https://www.refheap.com/93757
08:48 crocket babilen, I know what abomination means.
08:48 crocket babilen, I'm not sure what you refer to by abomination.
08:48 babilen your system
08:48 crocket babilen, Whut
08:48 crocket babilen, It's not abomination.
08:48 crocket It's common to add many ppa repositories.
08:49 crocket babilen, And, it was precisely reference to libzmq.so.3 which was fragile.
08:49 crocket Installing docker.io would have broken your clean ubuntu system, too.
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08:50 crocket I mean
08:50 crocket chris-lea/zeromq
08:50 crocket chris-lea/zeromq is 4.0.5, and the official ubuntu repository's zeromq version is 4.0.4
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13:59 ssteinerX Is there a way in salt to pull the latest version of a git repository to the salt server before pushing it up to a minion?
14:00 ssteinerX I don't want to be able to access the private repo from the minion
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14:29 joehh ssteinerX: we do something similar with hg
14:29 joehh we have a repo-cache state
14:29 joehh that clones/pulls the latest repos we need from a central place to the master
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14:30 joehh then serve it up via a python cgi
14:30 ssteinerX joehh: any chance you could gist the sls file after killing any private info?  I'm completely over my head here after my first week with salt
14:30 joehh every time we want to update, we run our repo-cache state first, then the minions pull from there
14:31 joehh the list of repos comes from pillar as it varies from site to site
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14:31 ssteinerX there's lots of good doc on what things do, but very little in the way of "common tasks and their solutions."  Running a local script to update a repo .tar.gz before pushing it to a server seems pretty common, to me anyway.
14:32 joehh http://paste.debian.net/132981/
14:33 ssteinerX thanks!  now to go figure out what a pillar is...
14:34 joehh http://paste.debian.net/132982/
14:34 joehh I think the spacing got messed up, but hopefylly it provides some direction
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14:58 ssteinerX joehh: I have a couple of things to research, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel, thanks!
14:58 ssteinerX (even though it's probably an oncoming train…)
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19:01 denys does it make sense for a master node to also run a minion?
19:08 faust denys: a minion of itself?
19:08 faust or a minion of another master?
19:08 denys err.. of itself
19:10 faust it makes sense to me
19:13 MTecknology denys: yup, I use salt to manage my salt server.
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19:20 denys MTecknology: ok, then I'll give it a try too. thanks!
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22:36 godber1 any tips on how to debug salt hosts that don't show up when I run ....
22:36 godber1 salt-run virt.hyper_info
22:36 godber1 oh wait
22:36 godber1 nevermind
22:37 godber1 libvirt service not running
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23:29 godber1 actually, that didnt solve it
23:29 godber1 still doesn't show up ...
23:29 godber1 when I run : salt-run virt.hyper_info
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23:54 crocket hi man
23:55 crocket salt depends on pyzmq for network operations, and pyzmq is fragile against libzmq upgrades.
23:55 godber1 hi

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