Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2014-12-23

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00:05 loggyer iggy: the one you suggested didn't return anything..could you have a look at it once more, http://pastie.org/9795094
00:05 loggyer i promise this time it's verbose
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00:15 shoma is the "highstate exit code always 0" saga was ever solved?
00:15 murrdoc yeah
00:15 murrdoc latest version reflects the correct exit code
00:16 shoma murrdoc: I use 2014.7.0 and still get 0 no matter what I do
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00:18 iggy loggyer: does the minion get the correct pillar data?
00:19 iggy loggyer: (also: be careful with the indentation, you don't need to use quotes in yaml very often, and I'm not sure logger and logpaths is going to come out the way you think it is)
00:19 murrdoc https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/18510
00:23 iggy I really don't know why some people like that format in their states more (putting all the loops and stuff in sls files and then re-looping over that data again in the managed file... the activemq-formula is bad about that)
00:25 iggy zookeeper-formula, my bad... that thing is a mess
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00:29 murrdoc zookeeper
00:29 murrdoc yes
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00:40 loggyer iggy: thelogger gets the data correctly but logpaths does not get it..i was wondering if that is the right way to go about it
00:41 iggy no
00:41 iggy based on the pillar you have, you'd do something like {% for lp in salt['pillar.get']('logpaths', []) %}
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00:59 Vye Is anyone familiar with Salt's integration tests? I've been trying to get a mocking question answered by SS for a month. My question is at the end of #16233.
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01:28 eliasp just playing with a masterless setup for the first time (2014.7.0 on Gentoo), but strangely Jinja doesn't know about any Salt specific tags like 'salt', 'grains', etc… http://pastie.org/9795171
01:29 eliasp my conf doesn't contain any customizations besides "file_client: local" and "file_roots: base …" pointing to my states
01:29 eliasp has anyone seen this before?
01:30 Vye I don't think they're tags. Try {{ }} instead of {% %}.
01:31 manfred you can use {{ }} or {% %}
01:31 manfred {{}} is for variables
01:31 manfred {% %} is for actions
01:31 eliasp Vye: well… as usually… way too late to do these kind of stuff… time to go to bed ;)
01:31 manfred {{ grains[something] }}
01:32 manfred {% for something in grains['list'] %}
01:32 eliasp yeah, I know… doing that all the time during more sane times @work… it's 2:30AM now and I should stop playing now ;)
01:32 manfred go to bed!
01:32 eliasp thanks for pointing out the obvious ;)
01:32 eliasp now that it works → bed
01:32 eliasp good n8 :)
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01:36 manfred eliasp: that should be {{}} and not {% %} in your pastebin, just fyi
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02:51 acti0nman hi, anybody doing anything with PCI? I’d like to ask a few questions. PM me please
02:52 dimeshake just ask your question, acti0nman. nobody's going to PM you at your beck and call
02:54 acti0nman well the question is for someone who cares about PCI Compliance, why spam the room with that when a PM would suffice?
02:55 dimeshake because it's potentially interesting to everyone.
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03:02 acti0nman ok, here it goes, what makes you hesitant about buying a PCI product?
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04:14 aysync Anyone have some tips for automating template deployment from ESXi or vCloud? I've got salt handling the vm's upon creation, it's getting the creation automated that I don't seem to grok.
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08:02 Rory 5 zombie salt-master processes this morning
08:02 Rory There was 9 yesterday so I guess that's an improvement
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08:37 Guest82513 Can anyone help me with assigning roles to minions? I need to be able to set up a vagrant box for a particular website regardless of the minion id, like Chef does roles.
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08:39 Furao roles is not something builtin saltstack you need to create roles in either grains or pillars and have oyur formula accordingly, personally I use roles/$rolename/init.sls and there i include other low-level formula or define more states
08:40 Guest82513 Do you have an example? And how do you use it with the Vagrantfile?
08:42 Furao i don’t use vagrant
08:43 Guest82513 What do you use? Openstack?
08:43 babilen There is no difference between using a Vagrantfile or another deployment. Just make sure that your top.sls targets the right SLS file (i.e. roles/$rolename/init.sls) to your minion
08:44 Guest82513 Even better, if you could post your example then I could work it out.
08:45 Furao I use openstack, digitalocean, ec2 and few others
08:46 Furao here is my top.sls to handle roles (and few more things) https://gist.githubusercontent.com/bclermont/586caee8c6bf0749353d/raw/38b9e1f1cb633248efcb522181a14ef46fcf8e26/complex#
08:47 babilen Say you want a role "foo" that installs vim, you'd have roles/foo/init.sls with "include:\n  - vim" in there (references https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/vim-formula). You'd then write a top.sls file for that minion and simply run it via vagrant's salt provisioner. You might want to consider choosing a specific top file with the state_top option
08:47 babilen Furao: Just out of curiosity: How do you deal with pillars and, in particular, their targeting in that scheme?
08:49 Furao i just run state.highstate everywhere :) i rarely target with -I
08:49 babilen No, I meant how do you target pillar data?
08:49 Furao top.sls handle which branch is deployed and which roles are applied
08:49 Furao ah really depends on clients needs
08:50 Furao sometimes it’s in some inventory system and pillar data is loaded trough an ext_pillar module
08:50 Guest82513 That's the salt state top.sls (thanks BTW)
08:50 babilen Furao: Yeah, but as you have your roles in pillars you, obviously, cannot target by roles there. Do you 'simply' target by minion id in that case?
08:51 Furao some other time it’s simply trough the minion id like web-prod-01 whih ends in role web, master branch
08:52 Furao most simple case, in web ui I create role and assign them to minions and ext_pillar turn that into proper pillars
08:53 babilen Okay, so you don't use roles, but make data available by different means. It is, AFAICT, the only sensible way to go about this at this point in time, but I was simply curious as to what people are actually doing.
08:53 Guest82513 Furao: I can't target by minion id.
08:54 Furao babilen: what you mean i don’t use roles?
08:55 Furao Guest82513: that top.sls just care about the pillar value of roles and branch it don’t look for the minion id
08:55 Furao I said that the minion id can be used in the top.sls of the pillars
08:58 babilen Furao: You cannot target pillars by pillars. As you maintain your roles in pillars you cannot use them for targeting.
08:58 Furao ahhhh
08:59 Furao yes i don’t define pillars in grains
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08:59 babilen Hence "It is, AFAICT, the only sensible way to go about this at this point in time"
08:59 babilen s/pillars/roles/ I presume
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09:59 dotz Guys, what is the preffered way of "get a database dump from one host, install to another host" on Salt?
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10:00 dotz I can generate the dump with cmd.run on one host, then I can copy it with salt-call cp.push
10:00 dotz then, I have it in /var/cache on master,
10:00 dotz then... I need to copy it to /srv somewhere, by running a script on the master,
10:00 dotz then I need another command on the master to distribute it to a proper minion
10:00 dotz right ?
10:01 Guest82513 Furao: where are the roles in your top.sls defined? Could you add the pillar or a template thereof?
10:02 giannello dotz, salt orchestrate, I would say
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10:21 whaity hello all
10:22 whaity I was wondering how people are applying hightstates? Is it just when needed or via a cron job
10:22 whaity or maybe some other fancy way?
10:22 whaity I am thinking via cron
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10:25 covox depends on the application, it's always good to have safeguards to ensure that e.g. an untested change doesn't wipe out your entire fleet
10:27 covox sometimes it makes more sense to have a manual workflow script (e.g. we manage our nginx reverse-proxy rules in a pillar, so we made an edit script that opens vim, then uses salt to stage the change on a test server, then roll it out on the two prod ones)
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11:17 dotz giannello: I'll have look at that, THANKS
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11:18 dotz giannello: EXACTLY what I needed.
11:19 dotz Saltstack is sooooooooo schweeeet
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12:23 NET||abuse hi guys. is anyone using salt with azure?
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12:27 NET||abuse i'm just doing a tertiary look at how it's written, affinity groups are used int he module at the moment, but thye're getting rid of those for what they call resource-groups.. is this being tackled yet?
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12:49 giannello someone mentioned me before the netsplit - please repeat, as my scrollback log was too small :(
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13:12 ctrlrsf giannello: giannello: I'll have look at that, THANKS & giannello: EXACTLY what I needed.
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13:12 ctrlrsf from dotz
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13:22 ganes hey
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13:23 ganes issues Install apache server in ubuntu using pillar
13:23 ganes anyone??
13:23 ganes can help
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13:55 overyander what command can i run on the master to see if a minion is still running a state?
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14:00 pttc any idea why this config would't work guys: http://pastebin.com/6JpA2n6Z ?
14:01 pttc the `salt` server would be unresolved, i thought the idea was that it would try localhost in that situation
14:02 pttc as it is, it just returns "Minion did not return. [No response]
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14:06 pttc this is me booting up a VM with vagrant with the master server on the VM,
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14:09 babilen overyander: "salt-run jobs.active"
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14:12 overyander is there a way to pass more config options to the minion installer? like something to specify initial startup state?
14:14 babilen Are you referring to the bootup script?
14:14 babilen *bootstrap
14:14 overyander no, the windows exe
14:15 babilen nfc, but why can't you simply trigger a highstate after install?
14:16 babilen (and what would an "initial startup state" be anyway?)
14:16 overyander in the config file there's an option for the initial state to run after the minion service starts
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14:17 overyander i can set it via the initial highstate, but that has to be done manually the first time. it'd be nice if i could set an install switch so that the minion will run the highstate right after install
14:18 babilen ganes: You have to learn to ask proper questions (and not hit IRC, ML, reddit, ... at the same time) -- "issues Install apache server in ubuntu using pillar" doesn't make sense as you *never* install something "using pillar". If you want proper help read http://mattgemmell.com/what-have-you-tried/ and http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html and ask smart questions
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14:19 babilen overyander: You could do that easily with reactors, no idea about Windows (and salt on it)
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14:40 pjota hi everyone
14:42 pjota salt has Cookbook manager tool. like knife on chef?
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14:55 jY pjota: there is no server like chef server really
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15:08 nk does anyone know of a way to include {{ sls }} in all file.managed states, without adding it as a default var everywhere? i would like to include some kind of origin of the file as a comment
15:12 sijis whiteinge: the salt-api should work against the 'masters of masters' in a syndic setup, right?
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15:30 babilen nk: Write your own state that does that or simply use file.{append,prepend} to inject it
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15:34 giannello ctrlrsf, thanks. dotz_, you're welcome.
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15:58 pjota jY, yes, i know
15:59 dotz_ What is the best method with Salt to run a salt-run with some parameters on the master, after doing some stuff on a minion, like creating a build?
15:59 dotz_ I am using publish now but I look for something more secure.
16:00 dotz_ As I allow state.sls in publish, I believe this is a bit insecure approach.
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16:02 dotz_ w8, I'm reading about reactors =)
16:02 xt 🎄🎄🎄 🎅 🎄 🎄🎄
16:04 Ligthert Nice one. :)
16:06 Ahlee ok, I have a stand alone master/minion
16:06 Ahlee I add a windows minion to it (keys accepted due to auto-accept), windows minion doesn't respond so I stop windows minion, salt \* test.ping now returns two returns from linux minion
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16:10 dotz_ Can I use reactors with orchestrate?
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16:13 pjota jY, but don't exist a similar tools in salt? For Cookbook manager?
16:16 murrdoc dotz_:  yes you can use the events module to call reactor via orchestrate'd states
16:16 dotz_ murrdoc: I see.
16:16 dotz_ murrdoc: This is pretty async btw.
16:16 murrdoc yup
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16:16 dotz_ murrdoc: Can I somehow wait for result after firing an event? I doubt I do.
16:17 murrdoc not sure
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16:17 murrdoc you ll have to test it out for your usecase
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16:19 pjota jY, for example get a module or template
16:20 jY get like how.. like download from somewhere?
16:21 pjota jY, yes
16:21 jY there is no "supermarket" like app in salt that i know of
16:21 jY yet anyway
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16:27 babilen There is https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/, but you would use that simply by adding the repo as gitfs remote (wouldn't recommend against adding it directly)
16:31 pjota jY, sorry, i am comparing some configuration automation tool
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16:35 pjota jY, i analizing some parameters for choice.
16:36 jY pjota: you need a tool like knife to be able to use chef.. you don't with salt
16:37 pjota jY, ok
16:37 jY my recommendation is use all the tools.. and go with the one that you find is the easiest to meet your needs
16:37 jY for me.. i hate chef but that's more of a personal opinion
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16:42 Guest25599 Ok, so the roles saga continues. I've now put in a custom grain into my minion.conf. I've tried shoving it in the salt state top.sls, but it's not being picked up in the grains dict. Any ideas?
16:42 mpanetta Did you restart the minion after putting the grain in the conf file?
16:42 giannello Guest25599, restart the minion
16:43 mpanetta btw grains.setitem is probably better then editing the conf file...
16:43 giannello also, if you put it in the minion.conf, you have to start with "grains:" and then a yaml dictionary, if you put them in /etc/salt/grains, you can skip the "grains:" line
16:43 mpanetta that too
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16:51 nk babilen: thanks, i ended up using {{ source }} which seems to be useable in jinja templates
16:52 Deevolution Is there a way to get pillar.item or pillar.get to pass back properly formatted YAML?  (i.e. without all the -------)?
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16:54 Ahlee Deevolution: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/output/all/index.html
16:55 Ahlee Deevolution: I out in json if i don't want the ---, but usually I just let salt handle that
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16:56 Deevolution Ahlee:  Thanks!
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17:21 budman Hello all, root@salt:/srv/salt# salt 'qa*' pkg.upgrade ntp (even though pkg.avaliable shows true)... it seems to be doing upgrade for everything
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17:22 racooper pkg.upgrade doesn't take arguments. I found that out the hard way. use pkg.install
17:23 budman bleh
17:24 faramir hi, everyone. i'm new to salt and trying to figure out salt-cloud. i installed salt using the ppa and --version tells me i have 2014.7.0 (Helium). i'm trying specifically to use digital ocean, and the docs (http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/cloud/index.html) seem not to match what i'm seeing. should i be looking elsewhere? are the docs here out of date?
17:24 budman okay thanks, then some servers show upgrade_availible = false for ntp, how to i apt-get update first
17:26 hal58th budman, also look into pkg.latest if you always want the latest version. pkg.installed also works well if you know which version of the package you want because you can specify.
17:26 budman @hal58th what is the proper way to "salt" ntp update then?
17:26 budman you have to run lastest and then install?
17:27 hal58th are you trying to do it through states or just a manual run?
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17:31 hal58th budman maybe this will help, I pulled it from sys.doc…     salt '*' pkg.install pkgs='["foo", {"bar": "1.2.3-0ubuntu0"}]'
17:31 hal58th foo and bar are two different packages
17:31 Guest25599 Trying this https://gist.github.com/jontyneedham/e6d615b5e8e32610d7de with the grain defined in minion.conf but it isn't matching -- anyone know? I've restarted minion
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17:34 iggy there's no such thing as minion.conf
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17:34 JDog iggy: ?
17:36 JDog I have used minion.conf to define the minion_id as it states in the docs, as well as the master.
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17:39 sgregory_ I'm writing an execution module.  Is there a way for me to check if the batch-size was specified when run from the salt master?
17:40 hal58th iggy: not sure what you are talking about. There is a minion.conf
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17:40 iggy I'm not seeing it
17:40 murrdoc he meants /etc/salt/minion iggy
17:41 murrdoc sgregory_:  what u mean batch size
17:41 hal58th Guest25599 can you do a sudo salt-call pillar.items and see if your pillar item is listed there.
17:41 murrdoc or maybe he meant mein.kaunf
17:41 murrdoc :D
17:41 hal58th Guest25599 I mean sudo salt-call grains.items because you are trying to set a grain.
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17:41 sgregory_ murrdoc: salt '*' -b 1 custom.deploy
17:43 iggy sgregory_: is it going to impact what you do to know that?
17:44 sgregory_ iggy: Ideally I probably want to just make the function bail out if that isn't set
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17:44 sgregory_ I don't likely want to run this on every server at the same time
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17:45 sgregory_ And I am trying to prevent myself from doing that by accident
17:46 iggy sounds nasty
17:46 iggy config.get ?
17:47 iggy I think that only gets stuff from the config files, not command line though
17:47 sgregory_ yeah that what it looked like. I'll try dumping out some more variables
17:48 robawt anyone running 2014.7.0 and see minions continuously hitting /dev/urandom?
17:48 murrdoc actually from digging around, looks like salt.util.parsers sets up the 'batch' variable for all cli calls
17:48 murrdoc from salt.cli.batch import Batch
17:49 murrdoc https://github.com/saltstack/salt/blob/30faaaf9e542ef3c579f7703a4fbaa1864d8f8e9/salt/cli/batch.py
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17:49 murrdoc man salt is full of interesting stuff
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17:51 sgregory_ oh cool
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18:25 robawt running into this pretty hard lately: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/16432  Has anyone else experienced it?
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18:26 Ahlee robawt: always and forever
18:26 iggy it's usually a bad state (i.e. a cmd.run that never returns, etc.)
18:26 robawt interesting!
18:26 robawt ok that's a step in the right direction
18:26 Ryan_Lane basepi: I see there's a feature freeze. am I able to get a few changes into it?
18:27 Ryan_Lane we have some cool new features for boto_asg, and boto_elb
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18:40 Ahlee https://gist.github.com/jalons/b95e62f3f3b7c2eacbeb
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18:47 Ahlee meh, not worth digging into it, deleting the host and creating a new
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18:55 gladiatr quick question: what is the source of saltenv?  I'm working on a pillar module--would like to make it environment agnostic, but I can't seem to find where it actually lives.  Core module code seems to indicate that it should be in __opts__, but it doesn't seem to get populated.
18:58 murrdoc master config file
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19:04 gladiatr Right.  pillar_roots is defined.  Right now there is only one environment (base). The problem I'm having is programatically determining what environment a targeted minion exists in.
19:05 dotz_ Guys, does anybody have any hints on using jenkins and salt together? I have a hard time, deciding, what should go into Jenkins build and what should go to salt scripts.
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19:15 basepi Ryan_Lane: we'll do it on a case by case basis, but we're happy to get some more boto awesome in there.
19:16 basepi Ryan_Lane: note that our next release will be targeting feature freeze in the April-May area, so going forward we don't expect to have any more 10 month periods without a feature release.
19:16 basepi We're targeting quarterly feature releases.
19:16 basepi So I think getting features in under the wire will be less critical. =)
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19:22 Ryan_Lane basepi: quarterly?
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19:22 Ryan_Lane basepi: how long will support on community releases be?
19:22 iggy I'd settle for a 2014.7.1
19:23 iggy but I like quarterly releases (matches our release cycle)
19:23 Ryan_Lane quarterly is pretty frequent
19:23 iggy live a little
19:23 murrdoc i like fix it ship it
19:23 murrdoc not that anyone asked
19:24 Ryan_Lane iggy: I run a git fork, so I'm living it up, don't worry about that :)
19:24 basepi Ryan_Lane: Only the latest release, same as always. With quarterly releases, they should be much stabler and the upgrade path shouldn't be as steep. If you remember, in 2013 (during the 0.xx days) we were targeting 6 week feature releases, and would usually hit about 2 months in practice
19:24 basepi This year it slowed down a lot, primarily due to RAET
19:24 Ryan_Lane but, if there's quarterly releases, and bug fixes and security fixes are only done on the last release....
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19:24 Ryan_Lane that means people *must* upgrade every quarter, or they're insecure
19:24 Ahlee What /win 2
19:25 Ahlee er, disregard
19:25 basepi Well, we don't get very many CVEs, so we don't expect it to be a huge issue
19:25 iggy Ryan_Lane: or upgrade to enterprise
19:25 basepi We may security patch open source versions.
19:25 basepi Depending on severity
19:25 Ahlee 0.17 for life
19:25 basepi Ahlee: hahaha
19:25 Ryan_Lane weren't there 4 criticals last year?
19:25 murrdoc bash, openssl
19:25 Ahlee basepi: can I still talk at saltconf if i don't upgrade? ;)
19:25 basepi I guess I haven't counted.
19:26 Ryan_Lane also, a security vulnerability in salt is a much bigger deal than most apps
19:26 Ryan_Lane so far there's also been little effort on backwards compat, so upgrading/downgrading has been pretty difficult
19:27 basepi Ryan_Lane: agreed. The salt community has changed a lot since we were targeting 6 week releases. We will likely backport security fixes, but no other fixes, for open source. But I can't speak on that for sure, it's not my decision.
19:27 Ahlee yeah, I installed hydrogen on a standalone and tried running highstate then gave up
19:27 Ryan_Lane I'm just raising concerns. this doesn't really affect me personally
19:27 Ryan_Lane in fact, quarterly releases make my life easier, since I use forks
19:27 basepi Ryan_Lane: with our new QA team and release process, we expect the upgrade path to be much easier going forward, and will increase our emphasis on backwards compatibility through deprecation paths.
19:27 Ahlee sounds like 2015 i'll get some time slated to overcome the env vs saltenv issues internally
19:28 Ryan_Lane but from experience in past projects, quarterly releases have been problematic
19:28 Ryan_Lane assuming at least security fixes are backported, it's likely fine.
19:28 basepi Ahlee: Yes, you definitely can. But I'd definitely recommend on moving towards 2014.7 or 2015.2 next year -- we're getting pretty positive feedback, and once you make that jump, I think subsequent jumps will be easier.
19:28 Ryan_Lane question is, how long will they?
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19:29 Ahlee basepi: yeah yeah yeah, it was supposed to be silly :)
19:29 basepi Ryan_Lane: I would be very surprised if we do security releases more than one or two releases back. Again, enterprise is the answer there.
19:29 basepi Ahlee: I know. =)
19:29 Ryan_Lane 2 releases is 6 months
19:29 murrdoc is enterprise per node license ?
19:30 basepi murrdoc: I think so, yes. Our enterprise offerings are morphing, currently, so I'm not sure on all the details.
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19:30 Ryan_Lane basepi: any reason for quarterly vs 6 months?
19:30 murrdoc whats wrong with monthly reelases
19:31 basepi Ryan_Lane: Yep, it's not very long. But I'm not sure we can really afford to support open source longer than that. The patches will be made available if people want to backport them themselves.
19:31 Ryan_Lane many other projects do 6 month cycles and do security releases for 1 year
19:31 Ryan_Lane where LTS is 2-4 years and is commercial
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19:32 basepi Ryan_Lane: that's how often enterprise will release. The reason we don't want to do that for Salt is then we end up in the same situation we were in 2014.7 -- almost 10 *thousand* unreleased commits, which takes a long time in release candidate stages.
19:32 Ryan_Lane 2014.7 was mostly due to waiting on raet, right?
19:32 basepi That said, I would actually really be on board with doing security releases for a year, it's just not my decision
19:32 robawt 2014.7 had the most new features of any other release
19:32 basepi I'll float it next time we have the discussion
19:32 Ryan_Lane basepi: have you guys looked at openstack's release model?
19:33 basepi Yes, 2014.7 was delayed so much due to raet. But the long release candidate stage was because of so many new features.
19:33 Ryan_Lane there's a bunch of really good example communities to base release models on
19:33 basepi We hope to make upgrades less painful and keep salt more stable by releasing often
19:33 * Ryan_Lane nods
19:33 Ryan_Lane I worry that it'll get to where people can't upgrade because they waited too long
19:34 basepi I worry about that as well. I really want to try to get salt releases to the point where they don't have a reputation for being buggy. If we can get to the point where people are less scared to upgrade, then we can treat it almost more like a rolling release.
19:35 Ryan_Lane also, will apt repos contain multiple versions of the packages?
19:35 basepi No, not as they are currently structured.
19:35 Ryan_Lane because that's going to be come more problematic with this change
19:35 basepi When we take them over from the community next year, I don't know what they will look like.
19:35 basepi Ryan_Lane: why? nothing's changing. except to go back to a release schedule like we used to have
19:36 basepi but a little more conservative
19:36 Ryan_Lane as is, when a new stable is released, the previous stable is gone forever
19:36 murrdoc that would make no sense
19:36 murrdoc unless you use reprepo to maintain the apt repos
19:36 basepi The fact that older releases aren't in apt has always been a complaint, and the answer has always been "bootstrap or pypi"
19:36 murrdoc in which case upgrade to apt.ly
19:36 Ryan_Lane basepi: that's not a reasonable answer...
19:37 basepi Maybe not, but I'm struggling to see what you think is changing
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19:37 basepi It's always been that way
19:37 Ryan_Lane yes, but now it'll happen every 3 months
19:37 basepi We've never had multiple versions hosted on apt
19:38 Ryan_Lane yep. it's been a pretty annoying problem the whole time, but in the past couple years it's only happened a few times
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19:38 Ryan_Lane now it'll happen like clockwork, 4 times a year :)
19:38 Deevolution Ryan_Lane: Host your own local mirror? (I'd agree that it would be better for the public repos to have previous versions available, but this would insulate you from them not being there).
19:38 basepi The other answer that I've heard floated around (which, having never been a "real" sysadmin, I don't know if it's valid) is "you should be hosting your own mirrors anyway"
19:38 basepi Again, maybe not reasonable
19:38 basepi Hehe, there it is!
19:38 Ryan_Lane of apt repos? that's crazy
19:38 Ahlee basepi: i agree whole heartedly.
19:38 basepi Is it? From what I understand it's quite common
19:38 Ryan_Lane it's common because of PPAs
19:38 Ahlee i'll never understand people that DON'T host their own mirrors
19:38 iggy "let's run a whole other server because 2014.7 has a huge bug in it"
19:39 iggy sounds reasonable
19:39 Ahlee then again, my systems also don't have access to the internet
19:39 Ryan_Lane (I do run a local mirror, but most people don't)
19:39 Deevolution Ahlee: same here.  Also, lets me control which versions are available to which of my systems.
19:39 SneakyPhil you guys must have tons of storage space then
19:39 iggy we do, but I'd prefer to get away from that
19:39 Ahlee Deevolution: exactly
19:40 Deevolution Ahlee:  And protects when my end users try to do something 'weird' with versions, LOL
19:40 basepi This has been great feedback, though, especially with our plans to take over packaging and the PPA next year. Maybe we need to host a "previous stable" ppa or something.
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19:40 Ryan_Lane basepi: you can also use http://www.aptly.info/
19:40 iggy especially if you are going to break mine functions *shakes fists*
19:40 iggy ;)
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19:40 iggy there's even an aptly-formula
19:41 Ryan_Lane launchpad's PPAs are based on reprepro, which can only handle a single version per package
19:41 Ryan_Lane other repos support multiple versions
19:41 Ryan_Lane basepi: I'm just a bit concerned about the shift in release and how it will affect the community
19:41 iggy I thought about trying to get OBS to do 2014.1 packages, but I got lazy and just used bootstrap everywhere
19:41 Ahlee is PPA an ubuntu thing?
19:42 iggy yes
19:42 Ryan_Lane I ask the questions, because I'd like to know the answers before the shift :)
19:42 murrdoc the problem with bootstrap everywhere is that there are environments that dont have outbound access to the internet
19:42 iggy yeah
19:42 murrdoc so now along with mirroring apt repos, i haev to mirror the git repo
19:42 Ryan_Lane bootstap is evil
19:42 murrdoc it is scary
19:43 Ryan_Lane I understand it's necessary to have it to make it easier to use/try, but it should be the last option
19:43 iggy and bootstrap breaks too (was broken recently for redhat <7 for like a week)
19:43 Ahlee agreed Ryan_Lane
19:43 Ahlee but, that's the old and crotchety admin in me
19:43 Ryan_Lane like "my weird linux variant doesn't support apt, let me go with the bootstrap"
19:43 basepi Ryan_Lane: yep, and I really do appreciate the feedback
19:44 Ryan_Lane if someone ran bootstrap on my system, I'd consider it a good candidate for being rebuilt
19:44 basepi Ryan_Lane: we're definitely going to a quarterly release schedule. Salt is still moving too much for us to do less often, and not have serious issues with upgrading. But we do need to have a better policy on security fixes and such
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19:45 * Ryan_Lane nods
19:45 river73 bootstrap... not the twitter library, i assume
19:45 SneakyPhil correct
19:45 basepi Nah, salt-bootstrap. =)
19:45 Ryan_Lane assuming backwards compat, security releases, and package repos are handled properly, quarterly will probably work well :)
19:46 river73 i'm just here observing until i find time to actually start using salt myself :)
19:46 Ryan_Lane and I'm excited for it because it will make my life easier, since we run forked things we maintain in the upstream
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19:47 Ryan_Lane basepi: ok. I'll try to get the changes I'd like in 2015.2 in today
19:47 Ahlee i'll be happier, as well, as hopefully that'll prevent me from falling ~2 years behind
19:47 Ahlee oh who am i kidding
19:47 Ahlee i'll do it again
19:47 Ryan_Lane they're written and tested, just need to be PRs
19:48 murrdoc wait so 2014.7 is not getting patches ?
19:48 Ryan_Lane basepi: also, with the switch, can you announce when freezes will occur a while ahead of time, so that devs can make sure to hit the freeze date?
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19:50 iggy if they are hard quarterly, that'll take care of itself
19:50 Ryan_Lane (openstack does 6 month releases, split into 4 quarters, 3 quarters of dev and 1 quarter of freeze)
19:50 iggy (i.e. you always know when ubuntu's freeze is because it was the same time last year)
19:50 murrdoc openstack breaks stuff spectacularly tho
19:50 Ryan_Lane murrdoc: in the past 4 or so releases they haven't
19:51 murrdoc i just salt-ed juno
19:51 murrdoc only works on trusty and have to write some 'hacks' into the states just to get cinder and networking to work
19:52 Ryan_Lane heh. I wonder if that's canonical's screw-up
19:52 Ryan_Lane murrdoc: you should talk to the technical committee (or at least the user committee)
19:53 murrdoc i didnt know i could
19:53 murrdoc i got a long list of things right here
19:53 Ryan_Lane yep. they're here for this sort of thing :)
19:53 murrdoc most fun is the python six and other pip dependancy fun
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19:55 Ryan_Lane iggy: yeah, true. would be good to have a posted schedule somewhere. I'll probably not remember otherwise
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20:00 iggy yeah, it should definitely be documented somewhere, I just don't think an actual announce will be hugely necessary (if they stick to the schedule)
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20:01 murrdoc i wonder if salts gonna go the gluster way, community releases are always behind
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20:02 iggy sounds more like they are going to be ahead
20:02 basepi Ryan_Lane: yes, we'll try to be more up front. We've been focusing on that feature freeze internally because we want to get some new enterprise awesomeness out the door with Lithium and we needed certain features by certain dates, so we didn't do a good job of community messaging. =)
20:02 iggy whether either is more or less detrimental is anyones guess at this point
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20:03 Ryan_Lane basepi: it may be worth having a session at saltconf about the cycle changes
20:03 iggy ^
20:03 Ryan_Lane iggy: indeed
20:03 basepi Ryan_Lane: also, just talked to Tom, and he says the plan is to move off of PPAs so we can host multiple versions, and to backport security fixes to a currently-undefined number of open source releases. We are still very much in flux and trying to nail down these policies
20:03 Ryan_Lane \o/
20:03 Ryan_Lane thanks!
20:03 iggy 14:48 < murrdoc> wait so 2014.7 is not getting patches ?
20:04 basepi No problem. I mostly was just struggling because I don't make those decisions so I couldn't give you real answers. =)
20:04 iggy that never got answered
20:04 basepi murrdoc: it is. It will get at *least* a 2014.7.1 and likely a 2014.7.2
20:04 iggy I know 2014.7 already has some patches
20:04 murrdoc basepi:  iggy thanks
20:04 basepi Because it definitely has some very important patches that need to be released.
20:04 iggy yes... it does...
20:04 murrdoc yup
20:04 basepi (read: mine compound matching)
20:04 iggy don't get me started...
20:05 basepi Ya, sorry again about that. =P
20:05 * murrdoc puts quarters in iggy
20:05 iggy ;)
20:05 iggy I just like giving you crap about it
20:05 basepi I patched it like the same day I discovered it was such an issue, but we've been trying to fix a couple other issues for 2014.7.1, and so it's still not released, which is frustrating
20:05 basepi We should have just done an almost immediate 2014.7.1
20:05 basepi Hindsight is 20:20
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20:06 basepi But we should have 2014.7.1 out very soon. (Though it may be January, since we lose half our core dev team until Jan 5 starting tomorrow
20:06 basepi Including me. =P
20:06 * basepi wonders if he should disconnect IRC during his vacation.
20:07 Ahlee Yes.
20:07 murrdoc thats a lack of commitment
20:07 murrdoc come on basepi
20:07 murrdoc #staypluggedin
20:07 iggy although between that and 2014.1 still being messed up with regards to mine data when data.p files are missing... it's been a rough week for me
20:07 basepi hahaha
20:07 basepi Mostly I'll probably stay connected but ignore mentions until I get back. =P
20:07 murrdoc gonna write a bot to ping u on the hour, every hour :D
20:08 basepi hahaha
20:08 * iggy writes a script to chastise basepi by name every day until the 5th
20:08 iggy lol
20:08 basepi I hate you all. <3
20:08 iggy great minds?
20:08 murrdoc basepi:  are we there yet, there being 2014.7.1
20:08 basepi hahaha
20:08 murrdoc hate driven programming, leads to enterprise apps
20:08 murrdoc #thatsafirst
20:09 jchen #toomanyhashtags
20:09 murrdoc #hashtags
20:09 iggy #IDontEvenTwatter
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20:14 murrdoc basepi:  is there an issue list for 2014.7..1
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20:22 basepi murrdoc: not really, unfortunately. We need to get better about adding fixes to the release notes when they're merged, we're just still a little understaffed
20:22 basepi but it's getting better
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20:24 murrdoc word
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20:27 iggy just hire about 10 more people... that's what VCs are for
20:29 basepi iggy: hehe, because "hire people" is the answer. It's not like getting good people, or having the bandwidth to actually teach them salt, is important. ;)
20:29 basepi details, details. xD
20:31 RedundancyD I just know that what ever update/patch policy and timing comes out. It would be best to settle on a install/patch processs and document it for both new user and quick start and also for devs
20:31 aurynn I know salt :)
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20:32 iggy I don't know salt, but I will move to SLC
20:32 aurynn I won't move to SLC
20:32 MTecknology woohoo!
20:32 MTecknology all y'all gets to hear me speak at dat dere conference
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20:34 murrdoc shiet, what u talking about
20:35 MTecknology saltconf
20:35 murrdoc no man
20:35 murrdoc what are you talking about
20:35 murrdoc at the conf
20:35 iggy heh
20:35 MTecknology oooooh
20:35 iggy "salt"
20:35 * murrdoc throws iggy on mtanski
20:36 MTecknology ya, that one
20:36 murrdoc sorry
20:36 murrdoc MTecknology:
20:36 MTecknology sodium bicarbonate, etc.
20:36 murrdoc funny story , pydsl used to be github.com/../nacl
20:36 mpanetta I don't think that is a salt :P
20:37 mtanski what’s going on
20:37 murrdoc https://github.com/borgstrom/nacl
20:37 MTecknology mostly a success story about what we had before and what we have now and how it's enabled me to do my job where I otherwise wouldn't have a shot
20:37 murrdoc sorry mtanski i got you with a bad autocomplete :|
20:37 mtanski ok
20:37 MTecknology weird hurdles from having 180 sites connected over T1's
20:39 murrdoc das interesting
20:40 Ryan_Lane MTecknology: nice
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20:44 MTecknology I'm absolutely terrible at speaking in front of more than zero people. We'll see how well I can do... :)
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21:17 forrest MTecknology: Just go watch my talk from last year, and know you can't do worse than that.
21:17 murrdoc link
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21:22 ecdhe forrest, I can't imagine you could be worse Ladar Levison presenting on Darkmail at Blackhat.
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21:22 forrest Who knows :P
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21:23 ecdhe It was sad for me because I always respected Ladar; his poor public speaking diminished that for me.
21:23 ecdhe Whereas a guy like Barnaby Jack could do fantastic stuff and also entertain a crowd.
21:24 ecdhe In the end, at least saltconf is about salt.  That boosts everyone's cool-factor.
21:25 MTecknology forrest: no link?
21:25 forrest oh sorry was working on something else, hang on
21:26 forrest MTecknology murrdoc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCbtD2r7bPo
21:27 murrdoc i am confused, should i make fun of your presentation (just to mess with you) or should i tell you its a good presentation
21:27 murrdoc :D
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21:28 forrest murrdoc: I don't really are either way :P
21:28 forrest murrdoc: http://www.slideshare.net/SaltStack/forrest-alvarez-salt-formulas-and-states-salt-conf-32725456
21:28 forrest there's the slides
21:28 SneakyPhil stephen watt from that video, I think, is gigantic
21:29 SneakyPhil that guy is huge
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21:29 murrdoc haha mic broke
21:29 murrdoc ./me shuts up
21:30 forrest murrdoc: That was actually my fault, I left my phone in my pocket, didn't realize they weren't shielded :D
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21:37 MTecknology forrest: I'm not seeing an issue at the moment. So far it feels like a pretty decent into into structuring your configs
21:37 forrest MTecknology: Yeah it's not that bad
21:38 forrest It's just more fun to make it seem really bad, then there's nowhere to go but up
21:38 forrest staying humble is usually beneficial.
21:38 MTecknology :P
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21:41 murrdoc this is not a bad talk
21:41 murrdoc almost a humble brag forrest
21:41 forrest murrdoc: Can't win 'em all I guess :P
21:41 murrdoc or you are too critical of your self
21:42 forrest heh
21:42 forrest Anyways MTecknology you'll be fine
21:42 murrdoc either ways, dope talk, forwarded to crew at work so they can understand why / when formulas
21:42 forrest murrdoc: Cool! Some of it is probably a little out of date, but not too badly.
21:47 MTecknology forrest: I feel like the map part can be done more easily with {{ pillar['pkg_alias']['apache'] }} and just pkg_alias.sls in the pillar top.sls
21:48 forrest For which slide MTecknology?
21:48 MTecknology minutes ~10-20
21:48 MTecknology at 22 now
21:49 forrest MTecknology: Oh yeah that one, pretty sure I did that because it was a little easier for new users to understand
21:49 MTecknology This seems like a really amazing thing if you have a bunch of people working on a bunch of different projects
21:49 forrest the formulas?
21:49 MTecknology ya
21:50 forrest Yeah it's pretty nice. The modularity is sick.
21:50 MTecknology I manage all of everything across ~400 servers including custom writing all of the applications. In my case, it seems like extra work for no gain.
21:51 forrest MTecknology: to make everything modular?
21:51 forrest MTecknology: I mean, if you're solo it is okay I guess, but with a modular setup you can bring people in much easier, as well as empower your devs to understand what is happening a bit more.
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21:52 MTecknology forrest: This is what I do - http://dpaste.com/0ZB834R
21:52 MTecknology our devs?
21:52 * MTecknology is the dev
21:53 forrest MTecknology: well, you won't be solo forever, lol
21:53 forrest MTecknology: that file looks very similar to the map.jinja file
21:53 MTecknology I don't imagine I'll ever not be running solo
21:54 * eliasp runs solo too… sucks sometimes quite a lot
21:54 murrdoc haha
21:55 MTecknology 590 servers ... miiiine
21:55 murrdoc not bad
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21:55 forrest Just depends on the org I guess. I did some clean up and it really helped our other ops guys/developers
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21:56 murrdoc formulas are basically base classes or facades (from software world)
21:56 SneakyPhil MTecknology: I like that link you posted
21:57 MTecknology This is my entire top.sls - http://dpaste.com/0XKFH6H
21:57 MTecknology SneakyPhil: what did I post?
21:57 SneakyPhil the first dpaste.com link
21:57 MTecknology ah
21:58 MTecknology forrest: did you get permission before reproducing the github logo?
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21:59 eliasp MTecknology: oh, you're running TSM too? I got fed up with this POS and put it into a Docker container…
22:00 forrest MTecknology: huh?
22:00 MTecknology "this POS"?
22:00 eliasp POS = piece of sh** :)
22:00 forrest what reproducing?
22:00 MTecknology eliasp: what app are you fighting with?
22:01 MTecknology forrest: you used the github logo in one of your slides, I was giving you crap about it
22:01 eliasp mostly the poor packaging (only available for ancient RH-based distributions) and our infra is mostly Ubuntu server based…
22:01 forrest MTecknology: Oh yeah
22:01 MTecknology eliasp: of TSM?
22:01 eliasp MTecknology: we're speaking of Tivoly Storage Manager, right? ;)
22:02 MTecknology yes
22:02 eliasp hehe, ok… well… tsmclient here, server is run by someone else somewhere else
22:02 forrest MTecknology: They have stuff about it here: https://github.com/logos
22:02 MTecknology I just converted the TSM packages to debs and haven't really had issues. I only need a few of them too
22:02 MTecknology forrest: ah, nice!
22:02 eliasp MTecknology: yeah, converted them to debs too, but run into quite a few issues ~12 months ago when I was dealing with it
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22:03 forrest MTecknology: Yeah they are pretty cool about logo usage as long as you aren't modifying it or getting paid off of it
22:03 eliasp MTecknology: maybe I should give it another try… can't stand having to manage containers too… they just don't integrate well in a declarative environment
22:03 MTecknology I've moved us to running just about all Linux on Debian7
22:04 SneakyPhil we're a mix of cent 6, ubuntu 12, and debian 7
22:04 eliasp great… I'm still undecided whether to wait for Ubuntu/Debian to get systemd into a fully working state or to give CentOS a try… I want to get the move to systemd done for $REASONS
22:04 MTecknology I won't allow ubuntu to be run as a server around here
22:05 mosen hiya saltines
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22:05 SneakyPhil windows updates are done on a client machine, merry christmas etc etc have a good week
22:05 murrdoc ahaha
22:05 murrdoc haev fun
22:06 MTecknology eliasp: I even put gskcrypt64, gskssl64, tivsm-api64, and tivsm-ba in my apt repo and deliver them through that. Those are the only four packages you actually need
22:07 eliasp MTecknology: yeah, I believe those were some of the problems I had… and as I don't have a local repo yet, I didn't want to go through those hassles too at this point
22:07 MTecknology reprepro - dead simple
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22:08 eliasp yeah, as there might be some more homebrewn software in the near future, I might look into that again
22:08 eliasp thanks for the reprepo hint…
22:08 murrdoc MTecknology:  reprepo is nice, apt.ly is better
22:08 murrdoc reprepo's downside is that u can only keep one copy of a package
22:08 forrest we have an aptly formula
22:08 forrest https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/aptly-formula
22:09 murrdoc does it use the nginx formula ?
22:09 forrest yes
22:09 forrest you could modify it easily though
22:09 MTecknology apt.domain.tld - it runs apt-cacher-ng and reprepro; I have nginx sitting in front of them.
22:10 forrest murrdoc: You could just trash https://github.com/saltstack-formulas/aptly-formula/blob/master/aptly/nginx.sls and do the same with some other front end and you'd be good to go.
22:10 murrdoc yuuup
22:10 murrdoc altho why trash nginx, it works
22:10 murrdoc our nginx formula could be simplified is all i am saying
22:11 MTecknology This is my nginx config for reprepro and apt-cacher-ng - http://p.ngx.cc/ecc120d32fbe8f97
22:11 forrest murrdoc: yeah I don't use the nginx ng thing
22:11 forrest just standard
22:11 forrest it uses the regular simpler one
22:12 MTecknology oh.. ya, I also distribute some gpg keys for packages on that box as well.
22:12 murrdoc do you only have one version all packages MTecknology
22:13 MTecknology yup, and I like it like that
22:13 MTecknology anything else to me is chaos
22:15 murrdoc haha
22:15 murrdoc u lucky lucky guy
22:16 MTecknology I work on debian packages in debian too... I guess that influences my mind as well.
22:17 MTecknology I've been asked to keep multiple versions in there because xyz app only works with x.y version and zyx app only works with x.z version. I quite gladly say heck no, figure it out.
22:17 MTecknology also... it's time to go home!! :D
22:18 forrest have a good holiday
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22:49 dergrunepunkt I want to access a grain value inside a pillar,  if I use grains["some"] will that work?
22:50 ldlework dergrunepunkt: yeah
22:50 dergrunepunkt cheers ldlework!
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23:07 dergrunepunkt I have this in a state {%- if salt.ps.swap_memory()['total'] == 0 %}, and when I go to highstate I get "failed: Jinja variable 'dict object' has no attribute 'ps'" how do I debug that?
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23:11 eliasp dergrunepunkt: try salt['ps.swap_memory']()['total']
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23:32 __number5__ dergrunepunkt: make sure you have psutil python package installed
23:34 CeBe joined #salt
23:35 dergrunepunkt __number5__: that's what missing, this recipies wher done by someone else and I'm missing something, it should install all that automagically
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