Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2015-03-01

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00:04 Ahrotahntee ah wait I got it
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00:48 iggy when is everybody else getting into town?
00:51 Ahrotahntee I wish I could have gone
00:51 Ahrotahntee would have needed to be expansible, and I guess my employer would need to use salt for that to happen :V
00:52 Ahrotahntee expensible*
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02:29 MTecknology iggy: monday at 1
02:29 MTecknology I'm so far from ready for this presentation
02:30 iggy seems like a number of people are getting in Monday... we'll have to get everybody together Mondy night I think
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02:48 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt | SaltConf 2015 is Mar 3-5! http://saltconf.com | 2014.7.2 is the latest | Please be patient when asking questions as we are volunteers and may not have immediate answers | Channel logs are available at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/
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02:57 MTecknology iggy: I'd be up for meeting for drinks at Squatters. They appaerntly close at 7, I could be there by about 5.
03:00 iggy that is literally right across the road from my hotel
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03:00 MTecknology excellent :D
03:01 iggy but that's about 4 blocks from the conference hotel
03:03 MTecknology ya... I'm debating about a taxi. Should work pay for my taxi there, or should I just enjoy the walk.
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03:04 iggy I'm doing a lot of walking this weekend
03:05 MTecknology I'll opt for walking, even though I kinda wanna make work pay for more stuff
03:06 iggy I figured everybody is staying at the Grand America
03:06 MTecknology it's a little bit out of spite for what happened last year. Instead of being my usual frugal self in an effort to save work money, I wanna very much enjoy myself
03:06 MTecknology that's where I'm staying
03:07 iggy I'm a coulple blocks away at the peery
03:07 iggy who has very laggy wifi btw
03:07 iggy type like 3 words befor ethey show up
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03:09 MTecknology what's peery?
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03:12 MTecknology oh- hotel
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03:47 MTecknology iggy: I should start packing eventually, huh?
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05:02 Aikar how do i call a specific state by name on minion or master?
05:03 Aikar I have a hosts file state that im trying to use role based salt.mine on
05:03 Aikar but doesnt seem to be populating
05:04 Aikar {% for server, addrs in salt['mine.get']('roles:db', 'network.ip_addrs', expr_form='grain').items() %}
05:04 Aikar should be right?
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05:20 Aikar how do I call a specific state by id from minion or master?
05:20 Aikar instead of full highstate
05:36 kellnola salt blah state.sls path.to.state.file
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06:01 Aikar ok thanks, next question trying to target a machine by id in salt-mine using pillars
06:01 Aikar {% for server, addrs in salt['mine.get']('id: ' + pillar['role_cache'], expr_form='grain').items() %}
06:01 Aikar I'm not a python person so not sure whats going on, its saying get requires 2 args, 2 given
06:02 Aikar (i fixed the space after id: )
06:03 Aikar oh
06:03 Aikar i accidently deleted the network.ip_addrs
06:04 Aikar woot it works
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13:56 izibi is it possible that salt takes a systemd inhibit lock whenever it does something like running a highstate?
13:56 izibi or as a more general question: is it possible to rum some code before and after every salt call?
13:56 izibi s/rum/run/
14:00 JPT izibi: maybe you can use a salt runner that calls the highstate somewhere between the other commands? i did not try salt runners yet.
14:06 eliasp izibi: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/event/index.html might help you
14:06 izibi JPT: why would i want to use a runner and not an execution module?
14:08 JPT if an execution module can do the same job, you can go for that, too.
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14:10 izibi that will most certainly work but it would be really awesome if there was an implicit way to do this
14:11 izibi eliasp: if i understand correctly, this runs on the master? at least the salt-run command is part of the salt-master package in debian. i need something that runs within the minion process
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15:58 iggy MTecknology: I waited till about 2 hours before my flight left
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16:16 Ahrotahntee yeah this is now working completely and I have no understanding why. Guess it's best not to look a gift horse in the mouth
16:27 mohae_ When doing a pillar-get, using jinja, can I build the name of the pillar item I want by concatonating a string with the value of a variable I set earlier in the template? I'm trying to dynamically build the software version number to fetch the correct checksum.
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17:07 iggy mohae_: {% set version = '1.0 %}{{ salt['pillar.get']('foo' + version) }}
17:10 stevednd iggy: are there states for s3? I know there's an s3 module, but I didn't see a corresponding states
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17:17 iggy what would expect?
17:17 iggy s3.uploaded?
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17:30 mohae_ iggy: thanks! that was one variation I didn't try
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17:35 SheetiS Can always use the module.run state to perform the operation, but would have to include your own logic for when and when not to run the state.  http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.module.html.  I would only use as a last resort though.
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17:46 sander____ Is there an easy way to see what mine data will look like before putting it into a text file or do you just create a test text file?
17:48 SheetiS sander____: once you have your mine functions setup, you can perform a 'salt <minion> mine.get "foo"' to see what <minion> would see when searching for "foo" in the mine.
17:48 sander____ Ahh I see mine_functions need to be enabled before it works
17:49 SheetiS well my syntax is bad there
17:49 SheetiS but yeah you need the mine functions.
17:49 SheetiS mine.get takes an extra arg as you need to match the minions in the mine in addition to the minion you want to look it up from.
17:50 SheetiS http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/modules/all/salt.modules.mine.html#salt.modules.mine.get to synxtax it correctly.
17:50 sander____ Yeah that's what was messing me up I was using the example from sysdoc and it was asking for extra parameters
17:51 SheetiS if you have network.interfaces in your mine functions, you can do this for example: salt '*' mine.get '*' network.interfaces
17:51 sander____ This is something best done in top.sls or in the minion config file?
17:51 sander____ Setting the mine functions
17:52 Aikar trying to get IP of another machine?
17:52 sander____ I'm trying to build the hosts entries in munin from salt data.
17:52 Aikar yeah were doing that too
17:52 sander____ I was looking at this formula for guidance: https://github.com/rfairburn/salt-nagios-formula
17:52 Aikar setup mine_functions network.ip_addrs: - eth1
17:52 SheetiS sander____: I setup my mine functions in the pillar
17:52 Aikar to get the mine populating
17:53 sander____ OK I will try that.
17:54 Aikar then https://gist.github.com/aikar/e338dfdc63880bd4c7de    I made a roles pillar per environment and then define a pillar for what machine id prefix to use for that
17:54 Aikar so role_db in vagrant is vag-mysql
17:54 Aikar and it gets IP of vag-mysql*
17:55 SheetiS sander____: (since that is my formula you are linking), that nagios formula was just a PoC i made for myself to see how I could use roles in my mine data to have nagios target every minion that had the nrpe role.  It's really rough and probably overly complex in the jinja.  It was one of the very first things I did with Salt.
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17:57 Aikar so how did you define the grain for roles?
17:57 sander____ Well I'm still kind of struggling with the pillar/formula division let alone mines, but I figure once I get a working config it will make more sense,
17:57 Aikar i was trying that but couldnt get the roles to set
17:57 Aikar something you need to set on provisioning?
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17:58 SheetiS Aikar: I set the roles with http://devop.ninja/configuration%20management/2014/08/25/the-grains-conundrum/ when I made that formula.
17:59 Aikar so yeah you configured it on the minion
17:59 SheetiS I recently converted that to an ext_pillar though so I didn't have to trust data that could be compromised on my minions to apply states
18:00 Aikar oh, are you setting the grain through a state?
18:00 SheetiS I do manage grains with a state (well now pillar data).
18:01 Aikar i was looking for a way to essentially define a role based in the machine id but couldnt get it to work
18:01 Aikar so what i ended up doing was scratching grains and just referencing a pillar value directly in the salt mine code
18:02 Aikar {% for server, addrs in salt['mine.get'](pillar['role_db'] + '*', 'network.ip_addrs').items() %}
18:02 Aikar its working good for me
18:02 Aikar so I just define role_db: vag-mysql
18:02 Aikar and it picks it up
18:03 SheetiS http://devop.ninja/configuration%20management/2015/03/01/beyond-grains-roles-with-an-external-pillar/ is what I just switched to.  I plan on switching it up to a real data source (possibly mongo or some other nosql) instead of a file on the filesystem, but this was mainly another PoC to get away from trusting grains that could be modified on a minion.
18:03 SheetiS Aikar: typically I use the mine to configure something on a minion with data I need to get from ANOTHER minion.
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18:04 Aikar right, in this case we need IP address of another machine to know where the database/cache/other services are etc
18:04 Aikar and not rely on static ips
18:04 SheetiS perfect
18:04 SheetiS that's an excellent use for it.  I misunderstood at first.
18:05 Aikar and im sure they will extend it to the load balancer too
18:05 Aikar (i'm not on the devops team, just helping out with the stuff that i either reallly need done or impacts me in some way)
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18:06 Aikar so is defining role grains commonly done by states?
18:07 Aikar instead of minion config on provisioning
18:07 Aikar ultimately I want if <env>-mysql, role: db, else if <env>-cache, role: cache
18:07 SheetiS Aikar: that's up to you to be honest.  One thing to keep in mind is that any superuser on a system can change the roles on the minion
18:07 SheetiS this can expose data or states to a minion that you do not intend.
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18:08 SheetiS I prefer to manage from the master and pass downhill.  While managing those grains with a state helps put the control back with the master, there are some limitations.
18:09 SheetiS First you have to apply the grains state and then afterward run your highstate to make the decisions on the grain
18:09 SheetiS and you still run the risk of someone messing with things in between (don't trust minions to know what they should want).
18:09 Aikar were actually looking to not even enable ssh lol
18:09 Aikar and control purely through salt
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18:10 SheetiS as long as you have console access of some type if the salt minion becomes unavailable, that seems reasonable.
18:10 Aikar i think they are looking at it as if that happens, blow it away and provision another
18:11 Aikar but yeah only people who are going to have access to the machines are the ones with access to master in first place
18:12 Aikar our teams arent large
18:12 Aikar I'm the sole developer on marketing
18:12 SheetiS I think long-term I prefer controlling my roles via an external pillar.  Some people even use a graphical style front-end with ext_pillar integration like Foreman:  https://github.com/theforeman/foreman_salt/wiki.
18:13 Aikar how is an external pillar different than pillar data defined privately on master?
18:13 Aikar or is that what the concept of private master pillar data is?
18:13 SheetiS the ext_pillar data
18:13 SheetiS exists outside of salt itself in something external
18:14 Aikar right but why would you use that vs a normal pillar thats private to the master (and separate from the salt configuration repo)
18:14 SheetiS you can get the data from a database, git, svn, s3 -- all kinds of things
18:14 iggy stevednd: did you ever figure out what you were trying to do?
18:14 Aikar if you dont need external data that is
18:16 Aikar I swear I had salt minion config showing very minimal output with output:mixed, now its showing me even more data like __run_num__
18:16 SheetiS Aikar: for me, part of what I do with my roles is inheritence from other categories that are applied to a machine, so it could inherit default states, and then if it is a webserver, it might gain 3-4 other kinds of roles.  I use the ext pillar as a way to combine all of those and do the magic
18:17 SheetiS And with 2015.2 there will be a configuration option to load the ext_pillar_first, which will actually allow you to use ext_pillar data to make decisions inside of your pillar sls files.
18:18 SheetiS http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/configuration/master.html#ext-pillar-first for details on that.
18:18 iggy I just rely on the fact that if anyone gets enough access to change grains, we're already pretty much fucked
18:20 SheetiS iggy: I agree for the most part.  I was really getting annoyed at having my reactor look for the grain state to change to run a 2nd highstate.
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18:20 SheetiS It just didn't seem efficient to me.
18:21 Aikar im just not kicking into work mode yet
18:22 Aikar tempted to watch an ep of HoC but im worried ill get hooked to keep watching more D:
18:22 Aikar but got a deadline by EOW lol
18:22 sander____ SheetiS: quick question if I added your nagios entry "mine_functions:   grains.items:" to my munin.sls then I should be able to query network interfaces enough to populate a simple list shouldn
18:22 Aikar and id rather finish everything well before it >.<
18:22 sander____ er shouldn't I?
18:22 Aikar sander____: for network data we defined specifically the network_addrs for eth1
18:22 Aikar inside mine_functions
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18:23 SheetiS so I moved it into the pillar.  I kept the grains data there in case any legacy stated depended upon it , but just pulled it 1 for 1 from the pillar (like this https://bpaste.net/show/5c6e34575dcf)
18:24 SheetiS sander____: is your munin.sls a pillar file?  the mine function has to exist in the pillar.  Also setting mine_interval (in the minion config) can be helpfuly.  You can also force a mine refresh with salt '*' mine.update
18:25 sander____ aikar I'm just looking to get fqdn and ips from mine data based on every minion which has this forumula applied. This is all pretty fascinating, but my salt-fu is still pretty weak. :)
18:25 SheetiS (the mine function can also live in the minion config, but I prefer it in the pillar so it is easier to distribute)
18:25 sander____ Yes SheetiS it is a pillar file. I will try that now!
18:25 Aikar yeah i never touched it before a week ago
18:26 Aikar devops team is doing all the learning, and im seeing what they build then suggest improvements for maintability (i'm a developer, so bothers me to death to see repetition :P)
18:26 Aikar but I also run my own business on the side where I do all the sysadmin work, so I am that role too, so it is nice to get this knowledge w/o spending the learning phase
18:27 Aikar but my business is prolly too small scale to warrant salt, never provision new machines
18:28 SheetiS Aikar: if I had more than 3-4 systems, I'd use salt.  If I had 3 systems and they had even just user accounts as an overlap, I'd probably manage them with salt.  Config mgmt can save so much time once setup
18:30 Aikar I'm just at 5 lol
18:30 Aikar and the 3 main ones are extremely small configuration
18:30 Aikar I built them out and migrated to them in roughly 3 hours
18:31 Aikar and and if one of them crashes... building the machine is the LEAST of my worries for downtime, data recovery would be
18:31 Aikar I run game servers
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18:32 Aikar but data is backed up so would just need DC to replace hardware.
18:32 SheetiS Aikar: I would hate being in a situation where I relied on data on any 1 system mattering at all.
18:32 sander____ Well I think config management can be a life saver, but you can't discount the learning overhead, especially in smaller networks
18:33 Aikar my backlog of stuff to do for my personal company is already so large and I don't have much help (no help on sys admin side) so I have to play balancing game
18:33 SheetiS If I cannot get a VM working in our environment in ~ 5 minutes, I blow it away and replace it.
18:33 iggy ^
18:34 Aikar and for this game server, accessing external data is just not possible. It's Minecraft, disk io is one of the largest bottlenecks that some people run theirs purely out of RAM Disks...
18:34 sander____ That's the goal for me too. And to rebuild machines regularly just to check the process, but it really looks like the salt best practices are still evolving at this point.
18:35 Aikar So I have data stored on SSD backed up to a SATA every 15 mins
18:35 Aikar and one day i'll rsync the backup dir somewhere else too, but full server meltdown is a risk im ok with for now lol
18:36 Aikar I already do stuff at 10x higher quality than everyone else
18:36 SheetiS The thing with salt is that it is so flexible that there isn't always 1 rigiht way to go.
18:36 Aikar though honestly building a vagrant vm that reproduces production is actually something I want to do
18:37 Aikar i have some devs learning java to help me out, but they arent comfortable with ditching windows yet
18:37 Aikar and everything I do I've built around linux.... so its been frustrating for them lol
18:37 Aikar so if I can provide a salt manage dev environment, that would be nice
18:38 SheetiS Aikar: One thing once you have salt up and going is you can use it to convigure your vagrant VMs as well.  This makes it super easy when trying to replicate prod conceptually on a 'local' environment.
18:38 Aikar yeah we do that with my day job already
18:38 Aikar thats how i'm testing my salt changes for the devops team
18:39 Aikar we have a vagrant master setup and then the vagrant minions connect to that master
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18:39 Aikar https://gist.github.com/aikar/e338dfdc63880bd4c7de < in that host, I set it up so that the thing still works if the minion is running off local instead of master too
18:40 Aikar since no master = no mine
18:40 SheetiS nice.  We use Amazon Linux so testing locally with vagrant is problematic at best (Amazon does everything they can to keep their stuff from running on a local VM).  #1) you cannot boot their kernel locally, #2) they block repo access from non-amazon IPs.  I've worked around both, but not in a way I'm happy enough to make official.
18:40 Aikar we were considering using AWS features, but ultimately decided to avoid vendor lockin
18:40 sander____ Is there a way to see all the mine data like grains?
18:41 Aikar and im glad we didn't go with AWS linux as you just said, having amazon specific versions of stuff is harder to keep consistent
18:42 Aikar like I want to get us on PHP5.6, but your locked to w/e Amazon provides
18:42 SheetiS you can see all of the mine data for a particular mine function as follows "salt '*' mine.get '*' grains.items" assuming that grains.items is one of your mine functions
18:43 iggy isn't amazon linux basically rhel/centos?
18:43 Aikar with custom kernel
18:43 SheetiS Aikar: I run a local yum repo and use a lot of fpm to build my packages. (https://github.com/jordansissel/fpm/)
18:44 Aikar oh thats a neat tool
18:44 Aikar we ultimately moved from packages and now using git for deployment
18:44 SheetiS iggy: yeah but the packages are quite different.  You can get most of the epel6 stuff working with it, but running locally is painful unless you use your own kernel packages.  You also have to proxy to their yum repos since they block them from non-amazon IP addresses.
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18:45 Aikar yeah so glad we didnt go that route
18:46 Aikar sounds like a headache
18:46 SheetiS It's only a headache if you want local vagrant stuff.  Amazon would just have you spin up one t2.micro or something small per developer
18:46 SheetiS and make lots of money off of you :D
18:46 Aikar I'm an ubuntu person, happy we stuck with that =P loyalty!
18:47 Aikar SheetiS: yeah few years ago my dept took over one branch of the companies site and built dev environments around micro instances.
18:47 Aikar omg that was so slow
18:47 SheetiS I've been in os_family RedHat for my last 2 jobs, but I am running an ubuntu 14.10 VM for various things in my home ESXi environment.
18:48 Aikar that was frustrating enough to consider quitting :P
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18:48 * iggy <3 debian
18:48 Aikar so glad that went away
18:48 Aikar my local machine is so powerful i've been trying to work from home more to get stuff done
18:48 Aikar prepare for jealousy :P http://aikar.co/gibson.jpg
18:49 SheetiS iggy: I always felt like I liked apt and deb pkgs better than the yum counterparts, but the biggest thing is the 'old system packages when working with new cool stuff' issue that you run into with RHEL.
18:49 Aikar right thats why i got away from rhel, I was always so afraid of breaking the system
18:50 Aikar setting up epel or w/e it was and seeing the entire kernel making major jumps... scary
18:51 iggy you can get into the same with debian (or ubuntu lts)
18:52 SheetiS Aikar: My home setup wraps around about 180 degrees (3 systems with synergy) https://s3.amazonaws.com/uploads.hipchat.com/111871/981972/Sr9Mgzgv2RqZXjq/20150129_163141.jpg
18:52 Aikar well i have yet to run into a ppa I need that upgrades the core like that :P
18:52 Aikar closest would be that one X ppa for updated drivers
18:52 Aikar yeah im at 2 systems with synergy purely due to nvidia drivers not supporting more than 3 in a shared desktop
18:52 Aikar so i power top 2 with laptop
18:52 SheetiS but I ran 4 ethernet drops to my table there so all system get the gigabit-to-the-net treatment.
18:53 Aikar my system itself could support 8
18:53 Aikar (i dont use windows at all)
18:54 SheetiS I use windows/mac os on the laptops/desktop and then if I want a gui linux environment, I just use nomachine into one of my various linux VMs of the distro i want.
18:54 Aikar well my day to day workload i usually have 10+ terminals open and live on ssh, so windows just doesnt provide core necessities for me
18:55 Aikar I considered mac but ultimately friend sold me his system dirt cheap
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18:55 Aikar (well, cheap as in compared to what it cost to build)
18:56 SheetiS I've never had too much trouble once I get my cygwin going
18:56 Aikar I use to use cygwin, but i reached the point why live in an emulated environment when the linux environment is what I ultimate want, why not just use linux :P
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19:02 SheetiS Too many of the games I play only work on Windows at this point, though the Steam library for Linux is actually getting to be pretty impressive.
19:02 Aikar I work too hard to play random games now, and those i do I just run on wine
19:02 Aikar or steam native
19:03 Aikar I work a 2nd job providing a minecraft server, yet i rarely have even 'played' my own creation
19:03 Aikar I did like over a year ago and really enjoyed it
19:03 Aikar so i need to do that more
19:05 SheetiS I try and keep a good balance. I spent a lot of years doing the 60-70-80+ hour weeks, and now that I don't do that anymore, I find that I can get more done.  I'll actually work on things in Salt over the weekend for fun sometimes, for example.
19:05 Aikar this is a one off thing for me is why im not fussing
19:05 Aikar we wanted to replace our website infrastructure with something more friendly to content people
19:06 Aikar as we have a home built system thats purely controlled through svn (old code base...) so non tech people cant really touch it
19:06 Aikar once this is done hours will hopefully be back to normal (once all the firedrills of fixing stuff that goes wrong is over =P)
19:07 Aikar but i work 2 jobs, i havent even had time for my personal company, so im backlogged greatly there
19:07 SheetiS Things go wrong?!? that _never_ happens! :P
19:07 Aikar and its hard to get people to help for free/dirt cheap pay lol
19:07 Aikar it doesnt even make enough money for ME to pay the bills with, so let a lone pay someone an actual salary
19:15 Aikar you know it amazes me to see a repo the size of salt only have 26 open PR's, that they are actually pulled instead of lingering forever (compliment not complaint)
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19:18 SheetiS Aikar: The PRs that I've submitted have been quickly reviewed and merged.  Usually within a few hours, someone has commented and they are really quick to work with you if you overlook/forget something.
19:18 Aikar yeah im saying im happy about that
19:19 Aikar in the minecraft world, the primary system was flawed by a horrible pr system
19:19 Aikar stuff that worked just never got merged
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19:20 SheetiS I <3 the salt community.  People here actually try and help out.  The guys at saltstack themselves are great to interact with.  It's really the first project that has made me want to commit back to it to be honest.
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19:31 sander____ I like salt, but the documentation and best practices really need work.
19:32 Aikar i think having links to some fully built production quality examples of using every feature in a "best practice" style would really help
19:32 Aikar seeing all the things link together
19:33 sander____ The problem is practicially every into has things like "'*' -webserver" as opposed to real examples.
19:33 Aikar right thats what i meant by production quality
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19:56 sander____ OK I have the mine showing all the grain info (thanks to SheetiS ) and I found a python snippet for the pillar, but I don't see how I can put the python code in the pillar. Should it be nested where the setting is?
19:56 SheetiS sander____: python code for an ext_pillar?
19:56 sander____ http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17158665/how-to-get-a-list-of-all-salt-minions-in-a-template
19:57 sander____ The first answer here, wouldn't I put the python query nested in the pillar?
19:57 sander____ under hosts:
19:58 sander____ Or does that go in the map.jinja?
20:00 SheetiS The jinja for loop in the example you just linked would be part of a state file.
20:00 SheetiS Your end goal is to have all mined hosts show up in a hosts file, correct?
20:01 sander____ yes.
20:01 sander____ So when I add a new host (centos host due to the forumla in my case) it would be added to the hosts list.
20:01 SheetiS and you have network.interfaces in your mine functions?
20:02 sander____ When I run ' salt '*' mine.get '*' network.interfaces' I get a table of the host names with a tree to all the network interfaces
20:04 SheetiS you could make a state called hosts like this: https://bpaste.net/show/b73c428d17cc and include it on any system you want to populate with all host entries.
20:07 sander____ OK I will have to play with it more looking closer I only see one host. which is actually on the mines of every minion....
20:08 sander____ I created a mine.conf file with an entry: mine_interval: 5 on that one host. Maybe all of them need that.
20:08 SheetiS sander____: If you don't have that, I think the default mine interval is 60 minutes, so it can be behind an hour.
20:08 Aikar sander____: you can do salt['mine.get]'('*', 'network.ip_addors')
20:09 SheetiS "salt '*' mine.update" should force a minue update though.
20:09 Aikar sander____: https://gist.github.com/aikar/776ef97bb7ecdc29863e this should give every minion in host
20:09 sander____ Yeah I have done a ton of mine.updates at this point.
20:10 SheetiS sander____: I'd try and add the mine interval and restart all the minions then.  (you do manage your salt minion with states, correct? :) )
20:10 sander____ So Aikar where would I put that sls? Is that a pillar.
20:10 Aikar roots sls
20:10 sander____ Ahh OK I will try that.
20:10 Aikar ie roots/hosts.sls
20:10 Aikar then add hosts to your top.sls
20:11 sander____ I do some management of the salt minions, but really just to update them at this point. I really want to add the backup dir.
20:11 Aikar I just did similar but not for EVERY minion
20:11 SheetiS sander____: That should do exactly what the paste I gave does, but is obtaining the data in a slightly different way.  either one would go in a state sls like Aikar said.
20:12 sander____ And then from the pillar I would call up the state?
20:13 Aikar right, in roots/top.sls you add another line item to that hosts sls you just made
20:13 Aikar and include hosts on every machine that needs its host file maintained
20:13 sander____ OK I will try that. Thanks everyone!
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20:14 Aikar but yeah the accessing IP part depends on how your mine functions is setup for mine vs SheetiS
20:14 Aikar https://gist.github.com/aikar/3bcbb84ac55f19c41894  is our mines
20:15 Aikar and SheetiS i went with hosts_ and using name: to avoid potential for ID conflicts
20:15 Aikar if you had another state that has an id thats same as your  machine id, yours would conflict
20:16 sander____ OK that makes sense. And I would call these files under '*': in top.sls?
20:16 Aikar if you want every machine to have it, yes
20:16 sander____ Ahh I have an idea on that now.
20:17 Aikar we only defined it on the machines that have intent to communicate with others
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20:18 SheetiS Aikar: agreed with the name conflicts.  I do the same thing.
20:21 sander____ In my case it is my home lab and all my test vms/hypervisors are centos. I eventually want to try manage other things using salt-ssh so I'm trying to segment '*' entries so they don't try to apply to other devices.
20:21 sander____ Still a ways away on that
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20:33 MTecknology iggy: heheh.. My flieght is 08:30. I haven't even arranged transportation yet. Since work is covering it, I plan to get a taxi. If I were to wait until 2hr before, I'd likely forget a whole lot of stuff.
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21:29 iggy MTecknology: i guess i travel a lot... don't tend to forget much
21:30 MTecknology I travel rarely and I've given presentations like this never
21:30 iggy my first time presenting
21:31 MTecknology you are as well?
21:32 iggy i still have some work to do on my presentation even :/
21:32 MTecknology I haven't proof read mine yet...
21:33 MTecknology just starting that now
21:34 MTecknology I mostly need to put my transcript into notes in the slide then read through it a few times out loud and then try to recite it from just the notes I'll have on the screen.
21:34 MTecknology nowhere near ready...
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21:36 iggy lol, sounds like we are at pretty similar points
21:42 iggy anybody managing docker from salt with docker running on coreos?
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21:46 MTecknology which talk are you giving?
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21:55 iggy bootstrapping a new company from scratch with salt
21:56 SheetiS I'd love to have salt chosen before my first piece of hardware or virtual hardware.
21:56 SheetiS It's much harder once you have 110 VMs that each have their own unique configs
21:57 iggy it definitely impacted how our systems turned out
21:57 SheetiS Hopefully in a good way
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21:58 iggy that's kind of the premise of my talk, and some tips/etc for beginners
21:58 SheetiS nice
21:59 iggy and a couple of nifty things that i did that i've not seen documented elsewhere
21:59 MTecknology mine is less about tips (some in there) but mostly about whyt you need /something/ and how salt specifically took me from absolute chaos to something manageable and improving
21:59 iggy (like how our backups work, etc)
22:00 JPT :O I just realized i can deploy my backup agents using salt
22:00 SheetiS I had it pretty easy for backups for the most part since everything is in ec2
22:01 SheetiS ec2 snapshots, s3, glacier etc
22:01 iggy similar
22:02 iggy using salt scheduler and orchestrate to coalesce services, snapshot, unfreeze
22:02 MTecknology after this, I plan to never ever give any talks again
22:03 SheetiS nice
22:03 iggy MTecknology: I'm the opposite. i hope this is just the beginning
22:04 SheetiS I run snapshots separate of salt currently.  Forced since not everything was in salt when I started.  I just poll all the active VMs in ec2 and make a snapshot.  A tag on the instance determines how long I keep an individual snapshot.
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22:08 MTecknology SheetiS: that's me too... been having to move from chaos to order slowly, but been getting there
22:09 MTecknology hey! the title of my talk :)
22:10 SheetiS From Chaos to Order... slowly.
22:10 SheetiS I think that should be the title
22:10 __number5__ for me it's from Chaos to Chaos all the time :P
22:13 SheetiS This is why using /dev/urandom to generate salt state dara is bad
22:13 SheetiS s/dara/data
22:16 MTecknology I have ~380 servers that are now managed 100% by salt. That's out ~500
22:16 MTecknology I'm well on my way to being at 100% managed 100% by salt
22:17 MTecknology there are exceptions that will prevent me from ever reaching 100% @ 100%, but... I'll get close.
22:17 sander____ MTecknology: how long does your biggest highstate take?
22:17 MTecknology on a fresh deployment or afterward?
22:18 sander____ afterward
22:18 MTecknology assuming I'm not deploying a new vmware-tools package, ~4min
22:19 sander____ Pretty good. Are you using mine?
22:19 MTecknology nope
22:19 MTecknology eventually, I probably will at home, but not at work
22:20 sander____ I want to test ganglia deployment at work so I need mine to make it nice.
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22:20 MTecknology I have one system that has 1090 states run on it, that takes nearly 5min ... so I guess I lied, 5min
22:24 SheetiS 1090 states... In a virtualized world I would think that should be more, smaller VMs without knowing context
22:27 MTecknology hm?
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22:27 MTecknology that's 1090 states running on a single vm
22:27 SheetiS by seeing 1090 states on a single machine, I think that it is doing too much itself
22:27 SheetiS without knowing context, my thought would be to split it up a bit :D
22:28 MTecknology meaning?
22:28 MTecknology split into more machines?
22:28 SheetiS I'm just wondering what all it is doing to require that many states.
22:28 MTecknology nah... it's actually appropriate for this particular system
22:28 SheetiS ahh
22:29 MTecknology buy me a beer monday and I'll explain
22:29 SheetiS I wish I were going :(
22:30 SheetiS I'd gladly buy you a beer though.
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22:48 iggy i found the homeless part of SLC
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23:26 MTecknology iggy: did you bring them sandwiches?
23:26 MTecknology Should we do that?!
23:26 aurynn all is improved by sandwiches
23:27 iggy They just offered me a bunch of drugs
23:29 MTecknology oh
23:29 MTecknology what kind?
23:29 MTecknology and how much?
23:30 murrdoc haha
23:30 MTecknology and where?
23:30 murrdoc MTecknology:  getting down to brass tacks
23:30 MTecknology :P
23:30 iggy something about black, white whatever i wanted
23:30 MTecknology I've never done any illegal drugs beyond expired prescriptions
23:33 MTecknology Not to say I wouldn't, just that I haven't
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23:42 SheetiS :o
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23:45 MTecknology murrdoc: hey! Maybe it'll help me improve my talk...
23:45 iggy these were definitely not the kind of people yoi want to buy from... better off making friends with a bartender or waitress or concierge
23:46 murrdoc MTecknology:  true
23:47 murrdoc the penguins movie is hilarious
23:47 murrdoc if u guys have nothing else going on
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23:54 iggy 30 per day is going to be tough to do
23:55 MTecknology 30 what?
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23:56 iggy $30
23:58 murrdoc per diem

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