Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2015-10-17

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07:17 Miriana-Tor Hello I am an Italian girl, and I love to do sex in all the ways, visit my site http://mirianator.altervista.org/
07:23 nkuttler basepi: ^^
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08:53 dreamcat4 hi. can salt be run masterless on a windows machine? (salt-call, with file_client: local) ?
08:54 dreamcat4 i ask because the windows installer seems to prompt for the hostname of a salt master
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10:00 oherrala dreamcat4: try --local ?
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10:33 dreamcat4 oherrala: right. so i don't need to change the config file then. its just something it says in the latest/topics/tutorials/quickstart.html
10:34 dreamcat4 nevermind. i guess these things become aparrent at the right time
10:34 oherrala I'm not sure but some version of Salt required the --local
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14:02 armguy currently whats the best way to deal with a group or virtual package? I see you can use them with yum properly but for Arch and Debian its still an open bug.
14:04 babilen What exactly?
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14:04 armguy pkg.installed does not work at all for a group package or virtual package. Meaning a package that lumps a group of other packages together
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14:05 armguy For example pacman -S lxde is a virtual package, if I set that to be pkg.installed its always tries to install no matter if it is or not cause it cant detect the group package properly
14:06 armguy https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/15749
14:06 saltstackbot [#15749]title: states.pkg.installed fails for packages groups on Archlinux | Same issue as #14426 but for Archlinux. The packages contained in the group gets installed but salt can't know it because it check the packages with `pacman -Q` which return the list of installed package but not package groups....
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14:10 armguy does that still not make sense?
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14:14 keltim oherrala, salt-call accepts --local, nothing else AFAIK
14:14 keltim but no, you don't need a master at all
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14:15 keltim so how are people structuring their pillar ... ? do you stick to making the file/dir structure match the pillar heirarchy, or is it just a free for all?
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14:29 babilen armguy: A virtual package does *not* lump packages together and I have no idea what a group package should be. Could you give a more examples for behaviour that pertains to Debian?
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14:30 babilen (guess that a group package is only relevant for Arch)
14:35 armguy virtual in debian
14:35 armguy https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/14426
14:35 saltstackbot [#14426]title: states.pkg.installed fails for 'virtual' packages on Debian | `states.pkg.installed` seems to have a problem installing so-called virtual packages on Debian/Ubuntu....
14:35 armguy both links are exactly the issue groups for arch virtual for debian
14:36 babilen Yes, you don't ever install virtual packages
14:36 babilen man .. I should comment on that bug
14:37 armguy and why would you not install those?
14:37 armguy that makes 0 sense to me
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14:37 armguy Where is documentation from Debian stating do _not_ use virtual packages
14:38 babilen They are being used, extensively even.
14:38 armguy and groups packages are very much supported in Arch Linux its a standard use case for Arch
14:38 babilen What do you think a virtual package is and why would you want to install one?
14:38 armguy just explain your reasoning no one should ever install those?
14:39 armguy or point me to the docs that state that
14:39 babilen one second, sporry
14:39 armguy It may be right for Debian but Arch linux in their own docs have you install group packages so its very much used and supported as how to install something
14:39 armguy such as base-devel or lxde
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14:41 armguy babilen~ https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-pkg_basics.en.html#s-virtual
14:41 armguy A virtual package is a generic name that applies to any one of a group of packages, all of which provide similar basic functionality.
14:42 armguy seems to conflict at what you are stating about Debian. I can grab Arch Linux docs if needed but this just seems silly at this point
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14:42 babilen Virtual packages in Debian are used to express the fact that a group of packages offer, more-or-less, the same functionality. Take, for example, the virtual package "nfs-server".
14:42 armguy correct
14:43 babilen The package itself doesn't exist and you cannot install it, but you can install actual and, well, non-virtual packages that *provide* the virtual package "nfs-server".
14:43 armguy ok well the opposite is true in arch linux ..
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14:43 babilen This allows Debian to express things like "this package requires any package that provides a nfs-server, but it really doesn't matter which"
14:44 babilen Which is why you never actually install a virtual package, but only those that provide it
14:44 armguy seems that Debian bug should have just been closed out for Debian.
14:45 armguy My question is still very legit for Arch linux
14:45 babilen The package type in Debian you might think of might be "metapackage" which are packages that merely depend on other packages, but do really exist and are installable.
14:45 armguy https://www.archlinux.org/groups/x86_64/base-devel/
14:45 babilen yes, there might be a legitimate bug for Arch still
14:46 armguy not there, is
14:47 armguy a simple pkg.installed on base-devel and you will see or any of https://www.archlinux.org/groups/
14:48 armguy But I get what you mean for Debian now, my mistake wrong verbiage
14:51 babilen That's totally fine ...
14:52 babilen Man, reading that bug and the references PRs gives me a headache. I sincerely hope that aptpkg doesn't contain a lot of code to "deal" with virtual packages simply because people misunderstood what they are :(
14:52 babilen armguy: Has this been reported for Arch ?
14:53 armguy The worst in arch is if you need to do base-devel and multilib-devel, due to multilib-devel replacing things from base-devel
14:53 armguy Yes sir one sec lemme grab the link again
14:53 armguy https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/15749
14:53 saltstackbot [#15749]title: states.pkg.installed fails for packages groups on Archlinux | Same issue as #14426 but for Archlinux. The packages contained in the group gets installed but salt can't know it because it check the packages with `pacman -Q` which return the list of installed package but not package groups....
14:53 babilen I don't really know Arch, but thought that I should clarify the situation for Debian
14:54 armguy I appreciate you correcting me on meta vs virtual though, I bet many make that mistake as well. I am going into a more heavy debian based world from all arch in prod for 5 years
14:55 armguy I've been doing the cmd.run but its a pain if you need to make sure base-devel and multilib-devel groups are on the box.
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15:05 babilen It really should be fixed for Arch
15:10 armguy yeah I was honestly surprised its been open for over a year. Maybe if I get enough time soon I can look at doing a PR to solve.
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17:47 ni291187 hello
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22:14 nxf My minion takes more than a minute after starting the service and before it accepts commands from the master, is that normal?
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22:36 ntropy nxf: no probably not normal, unless the minion or master node is really old / slow
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22:41 nxf ntropy: thanks, no the machines are not slow otherwise. i noticed that socket.getfqdn() takes a long time to complete in python, so i set "id" in the minion config to avoid it being called, but could this be the reason?
22:42 ntropy its not inconceivable
22:42 ntropy how long does it take now that you defined id in minion config?
22:46 nxf ntropy: no noticeable change unfortunately
22:47 nxf which loglevel would be useful to detect where it hangs during startup?
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22:48 ntropy i think debug should be plenty, but if you feel you don't see enough, try trace level
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23:06 nxf Using trace, I see 20 seconds go by after "Loading core.hostname grain", 25 seconds after "Loading core.fqdn_ip4 grain" and 25 seconds after "Loading core.fqdn_ip6 grain"
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