Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2015-11-21

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Time Nick Message
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00:00 ahammond I have a yaml structure that I want to walk to make into a directory structure. Any clever solutions for this?
00:02 whytewolf pleasantone: yes. there is no getting around that. with out using an external database or other pillar_ext
00:03 pleasantone whytewolf - damn, that's too bad. I'd think it would be a common occurrence where partitioned per-host data is required, much obliged.
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00:04 whytewolf pleasantone: thats why pillar_ext was created. to hook up to databases and other external pieces of information for larger/more complex data structures
00:04 pleasantone yep, just didn't seem that complex
00:04 forrest pleasantone, Just create a pillar for each host file, it's pretty simple
00:05 forrest pleasantone, Or preferably base info on a per app basis as needed, using 'per host' unique settings is always dumb to me
00:06 whytewolf forrest: to me as well. it really asn't as secure as people want to believe. and just complicates config
00:06 pleasantone it's for backups up to amazon s3... each host gets its own write-only area to write in
00:06 forrest whytewolf, Yup.
00:07 forrest pleasantone, So each host is writing to a unique bucket?
00:07 forrest I still don't understand backing up hosts either
00:07 forrest shouldn't need to do that other than logs (which should just be centralized logging)
00:07 forrest so only databases should need to be backed up, everything else should be able to be rebuilt and hooked up instantly, then ready to go
00:08 forrest Are you storing unique data on EVERY host?
00:08 whytewolf ceneralized logging. and backing up only data. hosts should be easy to nuke and recreate in seconds. which is the true cloud mentality.
00:09 forrest yup
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00:09 forrest data that needs to be backed up living on every host is a huge concern to me
00:09 forrest it makes management suck
00:10 pleasantone there is some local configuration that is not entirely salt-controlled yet, so backups are prudent... I totally agree with you, I'm just not there yet.
00:10 iggy living in perfect worlds is great
00:10 pleasantone anyway, thanks for the advice and help, I've nailed a working solution using some jinja magic and separate (ugh) files for now.
00:10 forrest pleasantone, For sure, I created that issue too so hopefully we'll get that updated to make things a bit easier.
00:11 forrest iggy, Yeah none of us do, but we can aspire to it ;)
00:11 forrest pleasantone, Oh before you go, which docs were you looking at that you didn't feel this was shown in? The main pillar docs?
00:11 whytewolf hehe I have come pretty damn close to the ideal. then i left that job to actually make money and cry myself to sleep
00:11 forrest lol
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00:16 pleasantone forrest, yes, I was looking through the walkthrough and the main docs -- and thank you for the help!
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00:17 forrest pleasantone, Yeah for sure, I'll update the issue so we can try to cross link the pillar docs
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00:34 mark____ any idea why I have duplicate minions? salt-key doesn't show dupes but if I do salt '*' test.ping some servers are there 6x
00:35 gtmanfred mark____: what version of salt are you running?
00:36 mark____ 2015.5.3+ds-1trusty1
00:36 gtmanfred i believe there was a bug with the early 2015.5 ones that had ghost minions, where the process didn't entirely die on a service restart
00:37 mark____ looks like it might be an init script bug somewhere as there are old versions of the salt minion running
00:37 gtmanfred i am looking for the bug
00:37 gtmanfred yeah
00:37 gtmanfred it should be fixed in newer versions
00:37 mark____ OK i'll upgrade to the latest in the ubuntu mirrors
00:37 gtmanfred remember, there are new mirrors https://repo.saltstack.com/
00:38 mark____ i was using the old ppa ones I guess
00:38 mark____ thanks
00:40 Vynce state.highstate allows test=True to not actually apply the state, but show what would be done — is there an equivalent for state.apply ?
00:43 whytewolf Vynce: state.apply literally runs sls and highstate using what is passed in. so test=True should pass through safely
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00:45 Vynce hm. the doc is completely silent about what the shown examples actually do, and i'm confused.  does state.apply with no arguemnts do anything at all?  if so, what?  also, what do regular (unnamed) arguments mean?
00:46 whytewolf Vynce: state.apply. is 3 lines.
00:47 whytewolf https://github.com/saltstack/salt/blob/develop/salt/modules/state.py#L309-L328
00:47 whytewolf not counting the documentation for it
00:48 Vynce i don't really understand what that means, though.
00:49 whytewolf it means the only thing it really knows about is "mods" anything else is passed through
00:49 Vynce i mean, i guess what that implies is that .apply is syntactic sugar for "highstate or sls if there are arguments" but there's similarly vacuous documentation for sls
00:50 Vynce "the only thing it knows abotu is mods" and there's no documentation on what those do, so :shruggie:
00:51 whytewolf it's simple. mods = what normally gets passed to state.sls "the state.sls files"
00:52 whytewolf so `salt '*' state.apply` will run highstate. salt '*' state.apply mysql will run the mysql state instead of highstate
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00:54 whytewolf that being said salt'*' state.apply test=True is the exact same thing as salt '*' state.highstate test=True
00:54 Vynce OK. cool.  that answer makes a lot more sense than the current docs.
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01:35 Vynce OK, i don't understand — from the CLI, pillar.items shows a dict at foo but pillar.get foo shows nothing
01:45 Vynce is there a guide to how to make sense of the output of a salt data structure?  like, what ---------- means, or |_ ?
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01:54 Vynce i found https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/output/all/index.html but i am not at all sure that it's relevant and certainly i don't see anything indicating which is the default
01:56 Vynce a-ha.  https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/output/all/salt.output.nested.html#module-salt.output.nested is the current default.  sure would be nice if that were findable without clickign through to every *(&(&%^ outputter to see what it says.  however, it doesn't explain what ---------- or |_ mean
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02:00 Vynce why do you have lives?  it's friday night, you should all be glued to IRC, not out having fun. d:
02:15 Vynce OK, i don't understand the difference between pillar.get and pillar.item, but i do get this: they both call on the minion's idea of the pillar values, whereas "items" calls on the master's idea of the pillar values.
02:15 Vynce but i can't figure out how to get the minion to fet those newly-calcuated values
02:17 iggy saltutil.pillar_refresh
02:18 Vynce why is that not in salt.modules.pillar?  or at least in salt.modules.pillar's documentation? (or necessary in the first place, but OK)
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02:19 Vynce but thanks. had just gotten the answer from google, once another source gave me the key term "refresh"
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02:19 iggy "historic" I believe would be the answer to your first question
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02:21 Vynce i swear i could take a shot of vodka for everytime something in salt makes sense and drive home at the end of every work day.
02:21 iggy I guess it depends on your background
02:22 iggy I come from a python/django/flask+jinja background... salt makes pretty good sense to me
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03:16 Vynce iggy: whereas my background is more "why doesn't python have better docs?" and "why do people write template languages like jinja?"
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03:52 Vynce how do you debug jinja errors when you don't know what line they're on?
03:53 mdupont Vynce, you can get that information
03:53 Vynce i'm getting a Jinja variable 'str object' has no attribute 'foo' error, but it doesn't say what line, and i don't know how to figure out what dict i'm doing wrong
03:53 Vynce mdupont: ... ok... how?
03:54 mdupont salt tries very hard to hide this
03:54 mdupont let me see
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03:56 mdupont https://github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/salt/tree/template_debugging
03:56 mdupont you might want to check my branch template debugging
03:56 mdupont and see what I did
03:58 mdupont like this line https://github.com/h4ck3rm1k3/salt/blame/182665e6356dd1606d2fe9b36bbbb2b9bb0220c8/salt/utils/templates.py#L107
03:58 mdupont there are others
03:58 mdupont dig around that
03:59 Vynce i have no idea what you'r esuggesting i do.  that appears to be python code?
04:00 Vynce maybe your proposed solution involves forking salt?  if so, i'm nto up for that
04:01 mdupont Vynce, patching salt
04:01 mdupont salt is python
04:02 Vynce yeah, no. i'm not messing with that.  if it's a thing salt does, i'll try it.  if it's a thing i have to rewrite salt to do, then it's not the solution for me.
04:02 mdupont so basically if you dont want to patch the salt code you are stuck
04:02 mdupont you need to do this on a local copy
04:03 Vynce yeah. presumably, though, there's some canonical salt way of dealing with this.
04:03 mdupont Vynce, dont' hold your breath
04:03 Vynce don't worry, i'm not.  instead, i'm using my breath to ask. ( :
04:03 mdupont alright
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04:18 lorengordon RandyT: you rang?
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04:23 Vynce well, i managed to bruteforce my way to finidng what line ahs the problem.  now if only i understood it
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06:54 tehsu does file.sed still exist or has it been replaced by file.replace
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13:13 Kelsar can i somehow use a not in targeting?
13:13 Kelsar like !os:Windows
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13:28 Kelsar found it
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13:30 granjow Hey there! If I have defined a grain on my minion as list, e.g. the proposed role: [ server, files ], how can I match them in the top file?
13:30 granjow With simple key/value pairs, I can use e.g. 'role:server' with - match: grain, but when role is a list, it does not seem to work.
13:32 granjow Edit: Well, after trying exactly the same command again, it seems to work. :)
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15:44 newrock Hello all. I'm relatively new to Salt and I've been trolling documentation and haven't gotten a clear answer so I figured I ask for help. 1. How do you have a minion poll the master. Is this only accomplished via setting the schedule on the minion config and specifying the state, i.e. highstate?
15:45 newrock 2. Also for config enforcement, i.e. you do a file.managed and someone on the local box deletes the file. At what point is the file repull/recreated due to the state? Is this outside of the minion schedule/startup state?
15:46 newrock Thanks in advance for whenever this gets answered. I've been running trial/error tests and haven't gotten a clear answer
15:50 antpa I'm trying to use the order function for states by placing order: last in my state and it doesn't seem to have an effect
15:50 antpa https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/ordering.html
15:50 antpa Does anyone have any experience with this?
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16:19 antpa Also, I'm having issues with visudo using saltstack...  my configuration is the same when installing manually and giving a user nopassword though when I use Salt to install and configure sudoers it doesn't seem to work.
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17:53 colegatron Just checking salt-cloud doc to start using it over ec2, I see it specifies that security groups, when master is outside ec2, should open port 22 to let the salt-minion be installed on the minion .
17:54 colegatron I understand this is only for linux servers, there is any spec for windows servers?
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18:02 aphor_ colegatron: how would you get Windows running a sshd?
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18:18 colegatron aphor_: I do not mean to use ssh on windows, but maybe winrm or winexe, whatever and there is no spec about how to manage it on the docs
18:21 colegatron there is no specs on how is (or not) supported the access to windows servers from outside the ec2 network. For example, seems you can use 'winexe' (whatever it is), but I'm not sure which ports it needs open
18:21 colegatron afaik, winrm is not (by default) supported by the windows images on ec2
18:22 colegatron and I would like to use default images if it is possible.
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18:33 aphor_ colegatron: Microsoft makes it difficult to manage Windows servers.
18:34 aphor_ OOTB, Windows is really a desktop system, with a desktop server manager app.
18:36 aphor_ https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd759202.aspx <-- why Windows as a server platform is a PITA.
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18:38 aphor_ I would rather spend a day battling with Wine than half a day committing to manually setting up Windows.
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19:25 colegatron_ aphor_: I would not spend a minute arguing against or in favor of any system. I have to use them without caring about if it likes me or not. :)
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19:31 colegatron_ I'm not fan of win but I need to be as sure as possible I do not open a security breach while trying to manage opening some ports to let saltminion be insalled or manage the server
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19:37 lorengordon colegatron_: I do not personallly use salt-cloud, but I've seen other say they use winexe with salt-cloud
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19:39 lorengordon If you're using win2012r2, be aware there is an issue with winexe and samba4. you'll need to build a new winexe package. see this issue: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/21256#issuecomment-151233467
19:39 saltstackbot [#21256]title: salt-cloud (EC2): Salt-Minion-2014.7.1-AMD64-Setup.exe doesn't install salt-minion service | Hi,...
19:39 colegatron_ lorengordon: thx. great to know, I use win2012r2
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20:14 beardedeagle how would one do a for loop for multiple grains? for instance, this is very obviously wrong:
20:14 beardedeagle {% for server, addrs, node in salt['mine.get']('roles:docker', 'network.ip_addrs', host, expr_form='grain').items() %}
20:17 beardedeagle Basically I need the host grain as well so I can drop stuff into a side A/side B in haproxy
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20:22 beardedeagle complete gist of haproxy.cfg: https://gist.github.com/beardedeagle/8b19a34f332ed26ac859
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20:28 beardedeagle this succeeds: {% for server, addrs, node in salt['mine.get']('roles:docker', ['network.ip_addrs', 'host'], expr_form='grain').items() %}
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20:29 beardedeagle however it does not actually catch anything
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20:50 beardedeagle honestly I should just be able to do {% for server, addrs in salt['mine.get']('roles:docker', 'network.ip_addrs', expr_form='grain').items() %}  for each side and {% if '*web1*' in server %}
20:54 RandyT colegatron_: I've had a fair bit of experience over past several weeks getting salt and windows ec2 to work for me.
20:54 RandyT There are few gotchas (and we really should put these in the doc).
20:55 RandyT colegatron_: this page has some important info: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/cloud/windows.html
20:55 RandyT Also, you MUST find a version of winexe (1.1 usually) that includes samba4 code to be able to manage 2012R2 instances.
20:56 RandyT I am having good luck managing Windows 2012R2 from a master running on Centos 7.1
20:58 RandyT lorengordon: howdy, ran into an issue related to salt states and powershell and thought you might have some guidance, but the details now escape me. (reason for my shout out to you last night)
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22:16 antpa Could anyone help me figure out why I'm not able to set the root password for mysql? https://gist.github.com/anthonyscolaro/da76319082e4b66d2cad
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22:30 lorengordon RandyT: well, if you think of it, feel free to ping me or send a gist
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22:34 lorengordon antpa: which line in the gist? i see a few places a password is referenced...
22:37 antpa lorengordon: I'm actually not sure which line as I'm new the mysql state.  Someone else just set this up for me and he said it was working but it doesn't seem to be setting the root password.
22:38 lorengordon well, i'm not very familiar with mysql, so i'm not sure which line to start investigating
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22:39 antpa lorengordon: lines 8 and 9 allow us to install mysql: https://serversforhackers.com/video/installing-mysql-with-debconf
22:40 lorengordon ok, try changing `salt['pillar.get']('sites:mysql:root_pass', '')` to `salt['pillar.get']('sites:mysql:root_pass', 'testingpillar')`
22:40 lorengordon if your mysql password ends up as 'testingpillar', then it means that you have not configured pillar
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22:41 antpa lorengordon: thanks.  I'll check it out.
22:42 lorengordon antpa: if that ends up being the issue, here is the tutorial on setting up pillar: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/tutorials/pillar.html
22:43 antpa lorengordon: I'm pretty familiar with pillar.  My highstate is pushing about 90 processes out right now to our webserver configuration.  My only two remaining issues are security related :)  visudo is the other...
22:44 lorengordon you could also set the pillar on the command line, just append this to your state command: `pillar='{"sites": {"mysql": {"root_pass" :"testpillar"}}}'`
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22:46 lorengordon ahh, ok, when you said someone else set it up i did assume you were just getting started with salt
22:48 lorengordon you may want the state to fail if it can't get the password from pillar, which may be considered more secure than setting a blank password
22:48 lorengordon if so, change `salt['pillar.get']('sites:mysql:root_pass', '')` to `pillar['sites']['mysql']['root_pass']`
22:49 lorengordon anyway, i've got to run, hope that helps!
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22:54 antpa lorengordon: thanks.  will keep you posted.
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22:58 newrock Sorry to repeat but it seems there are more active people now than this morning. 1. What is the polling interval for a minion to a master?. For example in the case a file.maanged state is applied and someone deletes the file on the minion. When is the minion going to pull/recreate the file?
22:59 eliasp newrock: http://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/jobs/schedule.html
22:59 eliasp newrock: if you want to act immediately on the removal of a file, use an inotify beacon: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/beacons/
23:01 newrock_ joined #salt
23:01 newrock_ sorry got bounced. Thanks eliasp, from my testing schedule was the only way to enforce the polling behavior
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