Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2015-12-24

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00:14 jfindlay iggy, Nebraskka: the timezone formula?
00:17 jfindlay I've never added anything to salt-formulas before so I'll have to ask basepi or whiteinge what the process is
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00:18 jfindlay zmalone: actually, the docs are built per branch now, so doc fixes can go into the oldest supported release branch like other fixes
00:19 jfindlay the documentation on this probably needs to be updated
00:19 jfindlay ironically
00:22 zmalone So a few months back, I pushed https://github.com/zmalone/salt/commit/2bc17047b2123576fe69c5a03fa47a02f3ccde0f and it was merged into develop
00:22 zmalone Should I have pushed somewhere else to get it into 2015.8 and 2015.5 too?
00:23 zmalone Oh, never mind, I understand, they don't go in develop, they need to go into each branch seperately?
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00:25 jfindlay older release branches are merged into newer release branches, and the newest release branch is merged into develop
00:25 jfindlay so, technically, the most 'proper' change would be against the oldest, supported release branch, and it will be merged forward in a few days
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01:06 iggy jfindlay: you can't I don't think, you'd have to be in the owners group (which is what I was asking basepi to do)
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02:34 jhujhiti jinja issue: dict(pillar['thing that returns a dict])|sort(attribute='attribute that exists') errors with "Jinja variable 'str object' has no attribute 'attribute that exists'". what?
02:34 jhujhiti pillar['thing that returns a dict'].asdf() will error telling me that dict type has no method asdf
02:36 jfindlay jhujhiti: what does `type(pillar['thing that returns a dict'])` say it is?
02:37 jhujhiti it's jinja so i can't type()
02:38 jhujhiti Jinja variable 'type' is undefined
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02:47 keepguessing what does this do ?
02:47 keepguessing salt['mine.get']('roles:kubernetes-master', 'network.ip_addrs', 'grain').values()
02:47 keepguessing whytewolf: ?
02:47 keepguessing is it getting all three and merging in to one?
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02:49 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt! | Latest Version: 2015.8.3 | Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/ | Paste: https://gist.github.com/ (please don't multiline paste directly into the channel) | Have patience when asking questions as we are volunteers and may not have immediate answers
02:50 keepguessing jfindlay: I want to know what would putting all those three [roles:kubernetes-master, netowkr.ipaddrs, grain etc would do
02:51 keepguessing is the cli equivalent of this?
02:51 jfindlay keepguessing: `salt` is also a python dictionary with strings as keys and execution module functions as values, so if you call `salt['test.ping']()`, it would return the result of the ping.  In this case you're calling mine.get, which is documented here: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/modules/all/salt.modules.mine.html#salt.modules.mine.get
02:51 jfindlay keepguessing: those are arguments supplied to the mine.get function
02:52 keepguessing so it would get values of these three keys?
02:53 whytewolf keepguessing: basicly what that whole line does is looking up all minions that have a grain of roles:kubernetes. using the mine function network.ip_addrs. and put the results into a list
02:53 jfindlay keepguessing: the mine.get function runs something like a salt command against the salt mine and returns the result.  It is somewhat like running a salt command against a minion
02:54 keepguessing salt '*-minion-1' mine.get roles:kubernetes-master network.ip_addrs grain I ran this
02:55 keepguessing jfindlay: I found no output
02:55 keepguessing whytewolf: jfindlay ok
02:56 whytewolf keepguessing: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/mine/
02:56 jfindlay keepguessing: so, the first argument is the target, 'roles:kubernetes-master' and the third is the type of target, 'grains', so the corresponding ordinary salt command would be `salt -G 'roles:kubernetes-master' network.ip_addrs`
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02:59 jfindlay jhujhiti: did you figure out the sorting problem?
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03:07 jfindlay jhujhiti: so probably what is happening is that attribute when you apply the `sort(attribute='my_attr)` on a dictionary (`{'first': item_A, 'second': item_B}`), it is looking for `'first'.my_attr`, but since `'first'` is a string (literal), it is not going to have `my_attr`
03:09 jfindlay something that may work for your case is `pillar['thing that returns a dict].values()|sort(attribute='attribute that exists')`
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04:05 jhujhiti jfindlay: i wandered off. interesting, thanks. i'll play with it.
04:09 jhujhiti that does seem to work, but of course i lose the key
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04:10 jhujhiti and the key is what i need to iterate over :(
04:13 jhujhiti i kind of hate jinja.
04:16 whytewolf jhujhiti: then use python? or pyobjects? it is an option.
04:17 jhujhiti yeah, i've written quite a few python helpers for jinja, but i keep getting bitten by it.
04:17 jhujhiti i'm debating rewriting all my templates in mako
04:18 whytewolf also an option. just not sure how well supported it is in salt. [i know there is basic support. but how well tested is it? I have seen like 2 people in my time here use it]
04:20 jhujhiti that's why i've held off so far. the default always has the fewest nasty surprises
04:20 whytewolf python and pyobjects also gets a lot of support here. thats why i recomended it [not just jinja helpers but full on rendering]
04:20 jhujhiti jinja seems like a bad default choice for such a powerful suite of tools, but, meh
04:21 jhujhiti <3 salt otherwise so i can't complain much
04:22 jhujhiti hm, i don't know anything about pyobjects. i should look into it
04:24 whytewolf also, jinja isn't as bad when you have the ability to extend it. but we currently [unless that changed in 2015.8.x] don't have the abiltiy to extend it
04:24 jhujhiti i've been watching the release notes for it
04:25 jhujhiti the only improvement i've seen is this syntax cleanup: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/renderers/all/salt.renderers.jinja.html#calling-salt-functions
04:29 whytewolf personally i really like that one. so much cleaner
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07:09 colegatron good morning
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09:00 colegatron I have a states subset (deployentiresite.sls+others.sls) running on base env for production. I have copied them to test env to start modifying them and therefore test it before move it to prod env. each time salt is run, I get errors about duplicated ID's. How do you do modifications to states on a test environment without having to modify all the ID's on the states?
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09:07 Nebraskka jfindlay, yeah =) https://github.com/michaelforge/timezone-formula
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09:35 babilen colegatron: Just make sure that they are globally unique
09:37 babilen ah, yeah .. is the minion in both environments?
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09:47 colegatron nop. but the file root has (on test env) both paths (base env and test env). I understand it finds the duplicated id's, but... how to achieve that the the minion gets the test states and also get the base ones if they do not exist on the test env? (like a kind of inheritance)
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09:48 colegatron the idea is to do not have to carry all state changes from one env to another copying them, to avoid mistakes (changes on base not propagated to dev or test envs)
09:48 colegatron and only have on test all those specific states needed on that env.
09:48 colegatron there is anyway to accomplish that?
09:49 babilen colegatron: Well, the state should only be in *one* environment. If you are trying to "test" common states, you have to remove them from the common environment while you test them.
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09:50 colegatron but then if any of the minions on production (base env) tries to highstate, the highstate will fail because the states are not where expected.
09:50 babilen fwiw, I find salt's namespacing (if one wants to call this) a bit, well, cumbersome in that regard. https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/renderers/all/salt.renderers.stateconf.html might help in that regard, but I am not totally sure how it behaves with environments
09:51 babilen Ah, no .. that doesn't automagically include the environment name in the state ID
09:52 babilen pity
09:52 colegatron maybe I did not explained well: I have all states on 'base', and the other envs have access to that states because I set the both folders /srv/salt and /srv/salt-test to its file_root. If I can get that 'inheritance' in other way, it would solve the problem
09:52 babilen You did explain it well
09:53 colegatron ok. tnx :)
09:53 babilen Wait .. so you don't use /srv/salt/base and /srv/salt/test ?
09:53 babilen (with minions being in both?)
09:53 colegatron no.
09:53 babilen Why not?
09:54 babilen Could you try that?
09:55 colegatron ... can't figure out... but maybe it is a possibility. how can I then set the env's order a minion take the files from?
09:55 babilen So, all minions are in /srv/salt/base (i.e. "base: '*': - ... - ..." in your top.sls) and a subset of them *also* being in test
09:55 colegatron I mean in test should test env should take precedence
09:56 colegatron ... wait... I think I have a misconception or yesterday I had some mysterious mistake...
09:56 colegatron now that you mention, I have all the minions on base : '*'
09:57 babilen You just can't have the same state ID twice and there is no "inheritance" in an OO sense.
09:58 colegatron so finally you can't have a subset of states being modified on a test env without having ID conflicts.
09:58 babilen environments are, well, not quite what they should be
09:59 colegatron babilen, it is like... nothing... if you havo take care to do not mix states, is like to do not have them
09:59 colegatron afaiu
09:59 babilen Bunch of people simply use distinct masters for different environments that gets around some of these issues .. but then, I'd start a discussion on the mailing list.
10:00 colegatron different master for different envs... it is a strange conception of environments :-/
10:00 babilen The "global unique ID" constraint is a proper PITA. I have no idea why the namespacing behaviour of the stateconf renderer is not simply the default (+ environments) with the "last assigned state" winning (in terms of environments)
10:01 babilen Well, lets say .. different masters for *actual* environments, not salt environments.
10:01 babilen There must be a bug about this (and related issues)
10:02 colegatron do not know, but I am a bit frustrated because it was one of the things I liked very much from salt.
10:02 babilen (not to mention pillars in environments)
10:03 colegatron babilen, there are also problems with pillars+environments??
10:04 babilen https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/21394
10:04 saltstackbot [#21394]title: Fallback environments when looking up SLS | **The problem I'm trying to solve:**...
10:04 babilen https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/23907
10:04 saltstackbot [#23907]title: Pillar: Pillars for different environments should not be merged | Hi,...
10:04 babilen https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/27709
10:04 saltstackbot [#27709]title: Pin minions to pillar environments | I can't figure out how to do this, so I'm listing this as a "It'd be nice to have.."....
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10:07 babilen (random sample)
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10:14 colegatron babilen, I am afraid. I'm just going to start a new project for a different company and I proposed to use salt but now I am afraid seeing this
10:14 babilen colegatron: Why don't you discuss this on the mailing list?
10:15 babilen I am by no means using environments heavily and people will have encountered these problems before.
10:17 colegatron because I am not experienced enough on CM and I having not very clear what salt _can_ do, honestly, I do not want introduce noise about 'what/how it should do'
10:18 babilen I find it perfectly reasonably to write a mail in which you say "I want to achieve ..... How do I do that with salt? I tried environments, but ran into .... when I do $smallandveryspecificexample"
10:19 babilen I don't use a "base" environment and simply have complete environments for my minions (in fact git branches)
10:19 babilen That way there is only *one* version of a state
10:20 colegatron babilen, ok. I'll find time this days to do it.
10:20 babilen (for each environment that is)
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10:20 colegatron babilen, yes, I understand that, but then I can't call them 'environments' because it is a completely isolated set of states... you can't re-use anything from one env to another
10:21 babilen I'd simply state clearly that a minion is in *exactly* one environment and to remove your base environment. That means that you move all states from the base environment into each of the other environments, with the understanding that the copy in "test" is the "to be tested" version of the state
10:21 babilen I simply use git branches for that and start working/testing on the test branch and then merge commits to prod
10:22 babilen (use a separate repository for top files as they are merged across environments)
10:22 babilen And yes, they are isolated sets of states
10:24 colegatron yup... in the way you use it (with repos) it makes a bit more sense, because it is 'easy' to merge test to prod (unless you have sets of states on test you do not want in prod, for example)
10:26 colegatron I started with masterless and when I felt confident I tried to move to master aproach, but envs and also gitfs I think it is going to be too much for me at this moment
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10:27 colegatron lets continue without env for the next project and lets see what I learn in the way
10:27 sevan hi
10:28 colegatron glad to talk with you and thank you very much for your explanations, it is great to share doubts in #salt
10:28 sevan is there any options of aptitude safe-upgrade?
10:28 sevan in salt
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10:31 sevan this option salt 'hosts' pkg.upgrade  works very well, but i need to have it as aptitude safe-upgrade
10:34 babilen sevan: pkg.upgrade
10:34 babilen Well, aptitude is not being uses (why do you think that you need it?)
10:34 babilen *used
10:35 sevan i want only security patches
10:38 LotR aptitude safe-upgrade doesn't get you only security patches either
10:39 sevan oke so apt-get update is the same as aptitude safe-upgrade
10:39 sevan sorry apt-get upgrade
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10:40 LotR it's not exactly the same, no. aptitude works harder at fixing dependency issues
10:41 LotR but security updates is a special repository
10:42 sevan okey but i have always used aptitude safe-upgrade, so will it give problems if i use apt-get upgrade
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10:46 babilen sevan: pkg.upgrade does that, but "safe-upgrade" and "full-upgrade" (or "upgrade" and "dist-upgrade") have *nothing* to do with security updates
10:47 babilen 'safe-upgrade' / 'upgrade' does not allow for the removal or addition of packages (cf. '--with-new-pkgs' option in apt-get or apt's standard behaviour), which 'full-upgrade' / 'dist-upgrade' does.
10:48 babilen If you install security updates only is entirely up to the repositories you have defined in your sources.list and their respective priority
10:48 babilen Using apt/apt-get/aptitude interchangeably is no problem nowadays (and has been for a while)
10:49 babilen In salt you are indeed looking for "pkg.upgrade" (for 'apt-get upgrade') and "pkg.upgrade dist_upgrade=True" (for "apt-get dist-upgrade")
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10:50 babilen I tend to use "apt" on jessie in lieu of "apt-get" or "aptitude" most of the time these days (when not using salt)
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11:01 sevan oke thanks
11:02 sevan one last question anyone have an idea to get output of example "salt 'host1' pkg.upgrade  --out=json --static" inside a database
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11:25 babilen sevan: Look into returners
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14:13 sevan thanks a lot !
14:13 sevan need to run, bye :)
14:15 Azitrex is site down ? saltstack.com
14:17 wangofett Azitrex: http://www.isitdownrightnow.com/saltstack.com.html
14:18 wangofett up for me
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14:20 Azitrex i can not to see the website !
14:21 Azitrex it's like a down website
14:22 wangofett Azitrex: can you ping saltstack.com?
14:23 wangofett Azitrex: http://pastebin.com/GKw8c0XH
14:23 wangofett Presumably you're getting the same IP. Otherwise I'd suspect your DNS
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14:29 Azitrex yes i have ping without Lost on 198.58.116.50
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14:46 bmcorser really loving netapi
14:46 bmcorser happy yuletide @chan
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15:22 arif-ali hi all, I am new to creating external pillar, I have been searching google, and can't really find the answer. How do i test that the external pillar is working
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16:04 whytewolf arif-ali: external pillars add items to pillar. so once you so a saltutil.pillar_refresh if you have new items in pillar.items most likely it is working
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16:07 arif-ali thanks whytewolf, tried that, will continue to diagnose, maybe I am doing something wrong, or my ext_pillar isn't actually working
16:10 whytewolf well which external pillar are you trying to use? and do you have info in it to be added to your minions?
16:10 whytewolf you can also check the masters logs to see if there are any errors /var/log/salt/master
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16:23 Azitrex oh i know now , the Site is forbidden for iranian IPs ! wangofett
16:25 arif-ali whytewolf, thanks, I am trying to develop one, to grab data from another source. I will try first testing the commands in the python code I am using first, and then see if I can incorporate, I was possibly being quite ambitious trying it straight off without testing the python code itself
16:26 whytewolf arif-ali: ahh yeah. that could always be a problem. be sure to have places where you use the logger for debug code as well
16:26 whytewolf really helps when you get it into salt and want to do a -l debug
16:27 arif-ali sure, I have those in there, but i'll test first, and will come back
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16:42 Ashald hi again :)
16:42 Ashald is there is a way to set pillarenv with state.orchestrate?
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16:52 whytewolf Ashald: in theory. I never worked with enviroments so have no experence beyond that. but if it is possable from the command line it should be possable from orch
16:54 Ashald that's the problem...
16:54 Ashald so far I found only one way: via __opts__['pillarenv'] - luckily I'm doing it from a runner so I can do that
16:55 Ashald saltenv and pillarenv are awesome ideas but they seem rather 'raw' for me... :(
16:55 whytewolf honestly I avoid them. they are just more hassle then they are worth
16:56 whytewolf I can just setup masters for each enviroment and be done
16:58 Ashald yeah, you're right
16:58 Ashald I mean, I though that it'd be awesome to have a single master to rule all environments
16:58 Ashald But now I'm forced to use some workarounds and hack to make this stuff work :(
16:59 Ashald And I feel like if it will continue this way I will have to use separate masters for different envs
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18:04 mnaser are the saltstack ppa's considered obsolete?
18:04 zmalone Yes, repo.saltstack.com is where current releases are going
18:04 mnaser okay i see
18:05 mnaser https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/installation/ubuntu.html
18:05 mnaser might want to update these docs then
18:05 zmalone Yeah, it's been a mess.
18:05 zmalone Some distributions no longer have packages at all
18:06 zmalone I might make a pull request for that later (I don't work for/with saltstack, but they accept issues/pull requests for the docs on their github repos)
18:06 mnaser yep.. i have to do something to update all my nodes now :<
18:07 mnaser been bootstrapping with ppas all this time
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18:13 mnaser zmalone: yay, salt-formula salt.pkgrepo adds the ppa
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18:33 mnaser there, made an update to the salt formula
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19:32 iggy mnaser: to make matters worse, salt-bootstrap still uses the ppa too (although there's an issue open for that already)
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19:34 whytewolf iggy i thought that issue was already closed with a merge.
19:34 iggy maybe, not actually following it (we use internal repo's)
19:35 whytewolf the smarter choice
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19:42 jfindlay jhujhiti: yeah, I'm not that excited about extensive jinja use, myself
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19:44 jfindlay jhujhiti, whytewolf: it seems #28236 is the feature request related to your conversation
19:44 jfindlay whytewolf: do you think that feature request should be expanded according to your comment?
19:45 jfindlay https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/28236
19:45 saltstackbot [#28236]title: Feature: Allow users to define custom jinja filters in _filters | It would be awesome to be able to easily extend the jinja renderer ourselves as detailed in http://jinja.pocoo.org/docs/dev/api/#custom-filters...
19:46 jfindlay but I'm also loth to encourage users to use moar jinja
19:47 whytewolf well it is either more jinja. or a real DSL. honestly starting to a lot more problems these days that are coming down to "use the python render" cause jinja just isn't a strong enough lang.
19:48 jfindlay :(
19:49 whytewolf and yaml is great for describing information. but not manipulating it.
19:51 jfindlay I obviously don't have the experience with sls that you do, but I'm very interested in exploring the options since I'd rather not get stuck with something ugly/brittle/etc. that we can't really get rid of because everyone uses it
19:54 whytewolf i kind of like the yay heat does it. which is very simalar to sls. except you can define varables that get used later so things can comunicate internally.
19:55 whytewolf with out jumping out to a different lang
20:02 whytewolf here is a heat tempalte [openstack orchestration] https://gist.github.com/whytewolf/1989155f49467edc7c7c
20:03 whytewolf as you can see it is VERY much like sls. the differences is that the jinja scripting is internal to it
20:03 whytewolf and isn't jinja
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20:04 jfindlay that's interesting, I'll have to think about this some more
20:05 jfindlay thanks, whytewolf
20:05 whytewolf no problem
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21:17 lorengordon wrote my first custom execution module today. that was surprisingly easy.
21:17 lorengordon wish i had gone that route a year ago, instead of the hacky cmd.run option i ran with at the time
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21:19 whytewolf ahhh custom modules. one of the nicest features of salt. and easiest to impliment
21:19 lorengordon anyone have a decent method for managing binaries required for a custom execution module? just distribute it with the module? or host it elsewhere and use a state to place it on the system?
21:20 whytewolf the later.
21:20 lorengordon this particular binary has no installer
21:20 lorengordon ok, that's what i went with
21:20 lorengordon tks
21:21 whytewolf no problemo
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21:56 iggy ^ agree with the latter (if you're counting)
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22:22 lorengordon good deal, thanks iggy
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23:18 whytewolf (Happy|Merry|Joyous|eid|Season.*).*(Holidays|Christmas|Festivus|Hanukkah|Kwanzaa|mubarak|Greetings)
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