Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2016-03-05

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02:22 nikogonzo https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/11147 is there any serious progress on vault as an external pillar?
02:22 saltstackbot [#11147]title: External Pillar for encrypted repositories | Automating decryption of data that only exists on the master is mostly handwaving.  ...
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02:25 lungaro is memory in a box a grain or a pillar?
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02:29 AndreasLutro lungaro: salt 'name-of-minion' grains.items will show you all the grains
02:36 lungaro I meant the nature of static vs dynamic values.
02:36 lungaro i guess it depends on how often grains are updated if they're cached
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02:38 AndreasLutro if your machine gets more/less memory it's probably rebooted as it happens, which would refresh grains
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02:47 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt! | Latest Version: 2015.8.7 | Register for SaltConf16: http://saltconf.com/register/ | Paid support available for open source Salt! https://www.saltstack.com/support/ | Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/ | Paste: https://gist.github.com/ (please don't multiline paste into channel) | Ask with patience as we are volunteers and may not have immediate answers
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03:27 iggy there is a module for current usage
03:28 iggy anybody use vultr? (possibly in concert with salt-cloud)
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04:24 ntropy iggy: i had some recommendations of them, will try when my digitalocean credits expire :)
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04:42 iggy I just found some things missing from the salt-cloud driver, wondered if anyone else used it and noticed anything else
04:43 iggy good service so far, I'm using the large drive ones
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05:39 kevc is there a preferred approach for having multiple users manage salt config whilst using git for revision control?
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05:40 kevc git not essential, just trying to find something a step better than our current ad-hoc approach
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06:01 iggy kevc: if it's git, sounds like you have the multiple users part already taken care of
06:05 kevc iggy: not using git at present, just files in a shared dir and sudo to edit, which is pretty terrible
06:05 iggy yeah...
06:05 kevc seems adding git would be fairly cumbersome, but not sure how to get a good middle ground
06:05 kevc push, pull, highstate, spot typo, push pull, highstate, etc
06:06 kevc I assumed there may be some standard pattern that most people use that I could try and work from
06:06 iggy I don't think there's one single best way to do it
06:07 kevc sure, different needs at different scales, etc
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06:07 iggy state.show_highstate is a good way to just test compilation
06:11 iggy at my old place, I had a separate dev/qa master for testing
06:11 kevc ok. I think mostly I'm just trying to avoid diverging from best practice. Don't think it's too hard to come up with some solution here, but far better if I'm doing what everyone else is doing
06:12 kevc seems documentation on best practices for using salt isn't that strong
06:12 iggy salt is a swiss army knife with a gun on it... don't shoot yourself
06:13 kevc it seesm to suffer from TMTOWTDI
06:13 iggy some tools are very opionated... salt isn't at all
06:13 iggy that leads to issues that you are noticing
06:13 kevc I like opinionated :)
06:13 Eugene I like turtles
06:14 iggy opinionated also often means limited
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12:33 tweakism the people who invented the acronym 'TMTOWTDI' considered it a feature, not something to suffer from
12:33 tweakism both approaches have advantages
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12:40 AndreasLutro the purpose of an acronym is to make things short, dammit
12:50 tweakism heh
12:51 tweakism well technically it's a mere initialism, 'cause I dunno how you'd ever pronounce it
12:51 tweakism but it's definitely shorter than saying 'there's more than one way to do it'
12:51 tweakism I dunno what the opposite position is called
12:51 tweakism maybe TSBOAPOOWTDI
12:52 tweakism maybe you could just say Perl-style and Python-style
12:52 AndreasLutro I haven't really used perl but I don't think python is very much "there's one right way" style
12:53 tweakism it's the preference / was the plan
12:53 tweakism in reality it doesn't often work out that way
12:53 tweakism but 'there should be one and preferably only one way to do it' is straight from Guido
12:54 tweakism oh sorry, it was 'preferably only one *obvious* way'
12:55 AndreasLutro I think it applies to very simple operations only... like you can't do var++
12:55 AndreasLutro but for everything else there are so many optional shortcuts, one-liners, alternate approaches... I don't agree
12:55 AndreasLutro even php is more opinionated than python
12:55 tweakism what don't you agree with in particular?
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12:56 AndreasLutro that python is a "there should be one way" type language
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12:56 tweakism well, ok
12:56 tweakism I agree that in reality there are multiple ways to do things, but that seems inevitable
12:57 AndreasLutro how did this discussion even get started :D
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12:57 tweakism it was definitely the plan / guidance / suggestion though
12:57 tweakism heh I have no idea
12:57 malinoff there will be more than a single way to do something in a turing-complete language, obviously
12:57 AndreasLutro well, I'd say, work with something like java and you'll see a language where the only choice you have is what to name your classes and what design pattern to implement
12:58 tweakism thankfully I've managed to avoid java for almost my entire career
12:58 spankalish Hi I was on here before with a problem with nginx with salt, I could not get it to install after changing nginx to nginx-full it installed, but now I can not get salt to pick up on the running service of nginx
12:58 spankalish I get the error Comment: The named service nginx_run is not available
12:59 AndreasLutro spankalish: you need to specify the correct name of the service, as you would with "sudo service start"
12:59 tweakism is that was the service is called?
13:00 spankalish I have it called nginx
13:00 spankalish would that be correct?
13:00 spankalish - service.running
13:00 spankalish -pkg: nginx
13:01 tweakism it's more likely than nginx_run.  I have no idea what OS you're on, so can't say for sure.
13:01 spankalish Ubuntu Trusty64
13:01 AndreasLutro you need to look at some of the examples here https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.service.html
13:01 AndreasLutro there's no - in front of service.running
13:02 AndreasLutro and the -pkg is just plain wrong
13:02 spankalish Yea sorry I don't have a - in frount of service.running
13:02 tweakism ^^^
13:02 spankalish front
13:02 AndreasLutro but it'd be easier if you'd just share your state in a gist or something
13:03 spankalish 1 min
13:03 spankalish https://gist.github.com/Spankalish/10e73cfb6d91cc93827a
13:03 spankalish Thanks guys
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13:04 AndreasLutro - pkg: nginx_run
13:05 spankalish I changed it to that
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13:05 spankalish I had - pkg: nginx
13:05 AndreasLutro what gave you the impression that the service.running takes a "pkg" arg?
13:05 spankalish I'm new to DevOps
13:05 spankalish I seen it in an example
13:06 spankalish obviously it's wrong
13:06 spankalish ?
13:06 AndreasLutro I think you misread that example or something
13:06 spankalish Maybe
13:06 AndreasLutro https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.service.html#salt.states.service.enabled
13:06 AndreasLutro you'll see here the "name" argument is probably what you want
13:06 AndreasLutro err sorry wrong link
13:06 AndreasLutro https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.service.html#salt.states.service.running
13:07 AndreasLutro same thing though
13:07 AndreasLutro in general, if your states aren't doing what you expect them to, double-check with the documentation that the arguments are correct
13:08 spankalish Boom
13:08 spankalish it works
13:08 spankalish Thank you
13:08 spankalish It's a learning curve, but I am enjoying it :)
13:09 spankalish Thanks again
13:10 AndreasLutro no problem
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14:58 spankalish Hi, I'm back again. How do you edit text in a file? I want to edit the ENABLED=0 to ENABLED=1 in the /etc/default/haproxy file on my Load Balancer, but I want to do it with salt. I can only find how to do it using the terminal and not through a yaml or jinja2 script
14:58 spankalish Thanks in advance
15:00 spankalish I also don't want to have to do it manually
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15:01 spankalish Suppose I could just replace the whole file maybe
15:02 tweakism https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.file.html#salt.states.file.line
15:04 spankalish Thank you
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15:21 viq Oooh, http://docs.icinga.org/icinga2/latest/doc/module/icinga2/chapter/distributed-monitoring-high-availability#manual-certificate-generation + https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/all/salt.states.x509.html#module-salt.states.x509  means I could add icinga clients automatically
15:24 AndreasLutro hm
15:24 AndreasLutro yeah maybe
15:25 AndreasLutro if you get it working I'd love to hear/read about it, I dismissed icinga2 recently because I couldn't grok its configuration and that lack of automation in adding clients
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15:28 viq AndreasLutro: I've evaluated icinga and liked it a lot, but right now we're using zabbix as we didn't have any automation in place and zabbix is easier to start with in that situation. But hopefully soon... And once we do have some automation I would prefer to switch to icinga
15:29 viq AndreasLutro: also, though judging by which channel you're on it may be of not much interest to you, there are puppet and ansible modules that seem able to automatically add clients
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15:37 AndreasLutro viq: we use zabbix in our old infrastructure, and are looking for replacements - sensu has been the only one that's made sense to me so far - but icinga2 has a way more fleshed out feature set, I would've preferred to use it
15:38 AndreasLutro though I don't know if zabbix 3 is a big improvement or not yet
15:38 viq AndreasLutro: have you seen prometheus? I don't know much about it, but it seems interesting
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15:39 AndreasLutro I got it to install just fine, but think it was missing a useful dashboard
15:39 AndreasLutro didn't spend much time with it though
15:39 viq I haven't had a chance to try it yet
15:41 AndreasLutro I guess I could look into what the puppet/ansible modules to do add clients - but I suspect it's just running remote commands to accept keys
15:41 viq I would expect ansible does, I wasn't able to decipher what puppet does. But I guess you could wrap reactor around the remote commands
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15:42 viq But "You're free to use your own method to generated a valid ca and signed client certificates." plus the x509 module make it sound like it could be automated in a relatively simple way
15:43 AndreasLutro wish it was just an RSA key...
15:43 Rebus_ Hmm couldn#t you get the same with sensu and rabbitmq doing client auth?
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15:53 AndreasLutro absolutely - it's just a bit easier to automate
15:55 viq What are noticeable negatives with sensu for me are need to set up and maintain RabbitMQ if you don't already have one in place, and it doesn't seem really suitable if you want to monitor some network devices (no idea about windows)
15:58 AndreasLutro I found that rabbitmq was really simple to set up, but yeah the lack of built-in snmp/ipmi functionality is a drawback
15:58 Rebus_ Monitoring network devices is actually pretty easy if you setup a monitoring proxy server that runs the newtwork device checks, e.g. snmp checks
15:58 AndreasLutro on the flip side it's very easy to add your own alerts into sensu
15:59 Rebus_ we ahd all the snmp-checks for nagios anyway so we could just reuse them for sensu
15:59 Rebus_ But yeah maintaining and tweaking rabbitmq can be a pain as erlang is a bit hard to grasp
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16:06 AndreasLutro it would be nice if more of these message queue based applications would offer various drivers, so I could outsource it all to aws sqs :p
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16:08 spankalish_ any reason for this? Comment: Service haproxy is already enabled, and is dead
16:08 spankalish_ https://gist.github.com/Spankalish/68213e0a6213b5dd8ccd <----------sls
16:09 spankalish_ Ubuntu Trusty 64
16:09 AndreasLutro probably means it can't start the service. validate your config file(s) and try starting haproxy in an ssh session to check for errors
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16:15 daswathn I am unable to load my custom modules second time aound, which is inside my file_roots folder
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16:16 daswathn root@dewdf0154:/srv/salt/linux# salt 'dewdfgld' saltutil.sync_all dewdfgld:     ----------     beacons:     grains:     log_handlers:     modules:         - modules.customuser     output:     proxymodules:     renderers:     returners:     sdb:     states:     utils:  root@dewdf01548:/srv/salt/linux# salt 'dewdfgld' saltutil.sync_all dewdfgld:     ----------     beacons:     grains:     log_handlers:     modules:     output:     prox
16:17 AndreasLutro daswathn: sync_all only updates out-of-date modules
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16:20 daswathn AndreasLutro: Thank you, but how do I check if the module is loaded and use it, for when I try to use it I get the error as 'customuser.user_as_csv' is not available.
16:24 AndreasLutro daswathn: check your minion logs. most likely, there's an exception being thrown in your custom module
16:26 daswathn AndreasLutro: will check now..
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16:38 daswathn AndreasLutro: Yes there was an error in my script, I have made the changes its working now, thank you for the advice
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18:30 lungaro any recommended reading beyond just going through the docs?
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19:21 AndreasLutro lungaro: blogs here and there... shameless self-plug https://www.lutro.me/tags/salt
19:21 AndreasLutro set up some vagrant VMs and mess around, best way to learn
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19:32 lungaro yeah, i've used a lot of config systems by now. so i think I get it
19:32 lungaro just not sure if I want to read the entire docs page :)
19:33 tweakism AndreasLutro: aww man, I was looking forward to your blog
19:33 tweakism but you only have 2 entries
19:34 AndreasLutro lungaro: in my experience, the biggest difference is how event-driven salt is. try and think how you can leverage that
19:35 lungaro makes sense. excited about that actually
19:36 lungaro Is there a general feature or pattern to use to slow roll through a list of machines, take 2 machines, take 'em out of service, wait until traffic drops, upgrade, go back into service, sorta thing?
19:36 AndreasLutro orchestration will do that sort of thing
19:36 AndreasLutro alternatively, you can write a custom runner
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19:37 lungaro got it
19:37 spankalish_ can someone show me an easy way to map my minions to a load balancer? Every way I find is a manual way, which is my view defeats the purpose of using salt
19:37 AndreasLutro spankalish_: mine data
19:38 spankalish_ AndreasLutro can you expand?
19:38 spankalish_ Does it involve salt cloud?
19:39 AndreasLutro spankalish_: google "saltstack mine" and you should find it, https://docs.saltstack.com/en/develop/topics/reactor/index.html also has an example
19:39 spankalish_ Thanks
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19:39 Tweesty Hi folks
19:41 Tweesty Anyone knows how to do orchestration with steps which required a restart from minion? Thanksssssss ;)
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19:56 lungaro Tweesty, the orchestration example seems to have that. But the part i'm missing is how to roll the upgrade slowly, 2 machines at a time
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19:56 iggy batch maybe?
19:57 lungaro I am too newb to understand that. Is that a module to use?
19:58 lungaro anyone know that the salt docs website doesn't scroll on the ipad with chrome? someone needs to check their javascript
19:58 iggy hmm, nope, batch only works for salt calls, not salt-run
19:58 iggy file a bug
19:58 lungaro every time I'd scroll down, it'd scroll back up to the top of the page
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20:00 iggy there's isn't a canarying feature built into salt
20:01 lungaro is there a tag system? maybe salt apache.signal is good enough w/ --batch if I can target via groups
20:02 Tweesty Hi, no the orchestration example don't show a restart of a computer but a service restart
20:02 Tweesty doestn't*
20:03 Tweesty I'm confused
20:03 iggy Tweesty: you'd have to do some trickery with events and setting reactors at the end of the the orchestration run
20:04 iggy it's not at all straightforward
20:06 Tweesty Ah ok :'(
20:06 lungaro its almost like it'd be easier to chain a bunch of salt commands together in a bash script
20:06 Tweesty I found something here : https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/6792
20:06 saltstackbot [#6792]title: Handling restarts and the continuation of jobs. | This issue comes from the IRC where a discussion sprung up on the best way to handle reboots for updates or other tasks. As an example I need to perform the following actions:...
20:06 iggy we have a string of runners and events to handle reboots/etc
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20:07 iggy realistically if your states and orch jobs are all stateful, you should just be able to just run the orchestration every time the minion comes up
20:08 Tweesty yep, i'm gonna try : wait_for_reboot:   salt.wait_for_event:     - name: salt/minion/*/start     -count:1 -id:jerry
20:08 iggy s/realistically/theoretically/
20:08 iggy in reality, things rarely work out quite like that
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20:09 Tweesty Iggy, it is not what i want to do ;) My hope is do step1 on Serv1, then step2 on Serv2, step1 (restart) on serv1, step4 on serv1
20:10 Tweesty is to do*
20:10 Tweesty step3 (restart)
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20:14 iggy why can't you do step 1, step 2, step 4 every time a machine reboots (i.e. every time the reactor gets the salt/minion/<id>/start event)?
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20:23 Tweesty Nop, I can't I deploy a sort of KB which have to do steps in a perfect order :p
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20:57 pirulo how to upgrade a package? its salt minion pkg.upgrade package?
20:57 pirulo I try that but it's not working
20:58 pirulo I do not want to use pkg.install, because if the package is not there it will installed..
21:01 spankalish_ I still can't map my minions to my load balancer. Getting very frustrated
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21:01 urda HELLO! Can someone explain to me why my SLS doesn't work: https://gist.github.com/urda/3e8fe79a10639e6d6404
21:02 urda I thought the "require - pkg" would work with a package name, am I doing something wrong with Salt?
21:02 AndreasLutro urda: it'll only work with a state id or name
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21:02 urda !
21:02 AndreasLutro that goes for all requisites
21:02 urda I was unware of that, so would I use 'package-tools' then?
21:03 urda I'm super new to salt :s
21:03 AndreasLutro yeah, or split package-tools into multiple states
21:03 AndreasLutro one for each package
21:03 urda Makes sense, still learning!
21:03 spankalish_ This all seems a bit over my head at the moment
21:04 AndreasLutro require: [ pkg: ack-grep ] doesn't mean require the package ack-grep, it means require the state with type pkg and id/name ack-grep
21:04 AndreasLutro which is a bit counter-intuitive sometimes
21:04 urda Ah I didn't know that AndreasLutro
21:04 urda I thought pkg = apt package
21:04 urda but that makes more sense
21:04 urda (since salt isn't limited to deb* distros)
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22:44 iggy or even limited to Linux
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23:04 lungaro anyone aware of a salt state to manage creation of a runit service?
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23:18 lungaro If I need to template a couple flles per declaration, should I do that with includes or is there a better way?
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23:30 darix lungaro: i think file based is probably best.
23:30 misconfig Hi all. I'm trying to retrieve a list of disks for an eval with jinja for one of my states ( create an LVM ), however I can't seem to get the grain listed here: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/grains/all/salt.grains.disks.html
23:34 lungaro I was hoping for a way to have one parameterized declaration result in two file templates being executed
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23:51 hemebond Can anyone tell me if salt-minion has proper support for http_proxy yet? I see many issues and topics about it but nothing seems to work.
23:51 hemebond Does the minion not yet load /etc/environment?
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