Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2017-07-10

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Time Nick Message
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00:15 dijit I'm looking at creating users on windows machines.
00:15 dijit but I can't find a single place on the internet that mentions supplying a hash.
00:16 dijit NTLM hashes are easy, it's just a horrible encoding of MD4.
00:16 dijit But, does anyone know how to actually make Windows take a hash instead of a plaintext password?
00:16 dijit this seems insane to me.
00:19 MTecknology people manage windows without AD as Samba4?
00:20 MTecknology or*
00:21 dijit We had AD, but due to various troubles I was hoping to have some backup users locally.
00:22 dijit but I don't want everyones passwords to be known by the others.. which would be the case if we pgp them.
00:22 dijit since we all have access to salt.
00:22 dijit and salt would need to decrypt them.
00:23 MTecknology You don't trust the people you allow logging into your salt master?
00:23 dijit I do, but that's a boneheaded question; I don't give them my password.
00:23 MTecknology Why would you give them your password?
00:24 dijit that's basically the situation; they would have the means of accessing my password if it's pgp encrypted in the way it needs to be in order to set my password on my windows fleet.
00:25 dijit I could have multiple passwords I guess, but it means we can't trust any auditing.
00:26 MTecknology Why are you using your personal password on a backup user account?
00:26 whytewolf ^
00:26 dijit well, I was going to say "I'm trying to get away from AD"
00:26 dijit but then everyone would jump on me asking why
00:27 MTecknology Then don't use AD, it doesn't change anything.
00:27 dijit and I don't have time to explain, but I have many reasons.
00:27 dijit ok, well, then it's my personal password because those are personal accounts.
00:27 MTecknology I'm not in a position where I can continue this mind game.
00:28 * MTecknology mind is bent from trying to understand and needs a nap
00:29 dijit heh
00:29 dijit sorry, I thought I was clear
00:29 dijit I want to manage users through salt
00:29 dijit I don't want plaintext passwords in pillars.
00:29 dijit and pgp encrypting them doesn't protect them from other admins.
00:29 dijit which is the point; with users on servers.. otherwise we'd all be running as a single user all the time.
00:30 MTecknology users shouldn't exist on servers
00:30 MTecknology but that's an entirely different topic
00:30 whytewolf windows shouldn't be a server :P
00:30 MTecknology heheh
00:31 dijit whytewolf: I wholeheartedly agree.
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00:35 dijit MTecknology: the issue is that we often find ourselves detatched from the network.
00:35 dijit run out of ephemeral ports: no login for you
00:36 dijit NTP out of sync: no login for you
00:36 dijit tagged vlans not working: no login for you
00:36 lorengordon dijit: are you trying to manage local user accounts across multiple windows instances, keeping all the local accounts in sync (same users, same password for each user)?
00:36 MTecknology Windows has methods to deal with those problems.
00:36 Eugene AD is what you want.
00:36 dijit random windows issue you've never seen but stops you connecting: no login for you
00:37 Eugene There are drawbacks to AD-managed environments, but for Windows desktops it is the de facto standard and I don't think Salt is an adequate replacement
00:37 dijit lorengordon: do you work at Ubisoft?
00:37 MTecknology Even if you want to get rid of AD, there are alternatives.
00:37 dijit Eugene: these are servers.
00:37 Eugene If it has a GUI its a desktop ;-)
00:37 lorengordon i do not, i'm just guessing at the use case from the description
00:37 dijit XD
00:37 Eugene If it doesn't have a gui then you're running Nano Server, and this shouldn't be a question
00:37 dijit lorengordon: head of security has your name.
00:37 MTecknology Eugene: I don't think it's a replacement so much as a supplemental management utility
00:37 Eugene (also Nano server isn't really a product anymore)
00:37 lorengordon lololol
00:38 lorengordon interesting problem
00:38 dijit if there are better solutions, I'm all ears.
00:38 lorengordon investigate ext pillar yet?
00:39 MTecknology ext_pillar wouldn't really stop those problems
00:39 whytewolf well his main prblem is the saltmodules that handle users in windows. all take plain text password.  even win_shadow. looks like he would have to find a powershell version and use cmd.run
00:39 dijit been looking for that too.
00:40 MTecknology or follow best-practices and use that only for backup users
00:40 MTecknology domain users for people that need to log into a host
00:41 lorengordon except it sounds like he's trying to ditch the domain entirely
00:41 MTecknology which is silly
00:41 MTecknology ditching AD is one thing
00:41 lorengordon <sigh>
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00:41 dijit tbh we almost never log into these machines
00:41 dijit what does AD give us?
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00:42 MTecknology You keep saying AD.
00:42 lorengordon mostly just a source for user authentication
00:42 dijit that's what I assumed, and some central management bits.
00:42 dijit but we do everything with salt.
00:42 dijit very little goes through GPO
00:43 dijit less dependence on windows server = better regardless imo.
00:43 dijit this is a controversial topic
00:43 dijit it seems xD
00:43 Eugene LDAP and Kerberization are nice, and work great on NIX-based systems too
00:43 whytewolf well, one thing that windows servers do well is serve windows
00:44 Eugene I'm crazy enough to run both over the internet. Its fine
00:44 dijit yeah I'm also a fan of krb
00:44 lorengordon the bad network makes central user authentication a tough nut
00:44 dijit all my home stuff is kerberized
00:45 dijit but my home stuff runs through _my_ network, which is flat, has no vlans and nothing is running out of ephemeral ports or having random windows-gasms.
00:45 whytewolf huh. wish i had a flat network at home sometimes ...
00:46 lorengordon do you need the gui on windows? i was reading up on key-based auth to windows for remote powershell sessions once upon a time...
00:46 dijit well, technically wifi has a different subnet/vlan.
00:46 dijit remote being the keyword.
00:46 lorengordon you could distribute the users keys to the windows servers, and let the users keep their private keys
00:46 dijit if it has no network; it's DOA.
00:46 whytewolf dijit: I run about 10 vlans not counting the 400 private vlans for my openstack setup
00:46 dijit I need access to the machine
00:47 dijit whytewolf: holy shit
00:47 dijit your wife/husband must love you.
00:47 dijit :|
00:47 dijit lots of machines
00:47 whytewolf lol. I'm single :P
00:48 lorengordon https://cloudbase.it/windows-without-passwords-in-openstack/
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00:49 dijit let me read that; but I'm going to make the assumption now that they're connecting over the network.
00:49 * whytewolf shrugs i have 2 windows systems in my home network. my gaming desktop and my work laptop
00:49 lorengordon i'm kind of assuming you have _some_ network connectivity, for salt to manage them
00:51 dijit the thing with salt is that 1) it creates a connection out, so its immune to some issues like ephemeral port exhaustion.. (in those cases we debug using cmd.run on the shell)
00:51 dijit but, the good thing is that once you've state.apply'd- the accounts would be there.
00:51 dijit if the machine dies you can hop on the console and debug
00:52 dijit if some jackass removes the vlans (again) you can get in, because local accounts are already there.
00:52 dijit there was supposed to be a `2)` instead of the "but, the good thing..."
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00:54 * MTecknology grumbles
00:55 MTecknology I keep having the scheduler take a crap on me.
00:55 dijit :(
00:56 MTecknology Time to switch to cron states
01:05 coredumb is it OK for an ext_pillar module to return in ~0.110s ?
01:06 coredumb looking for ballpark
01:06 MTecknology Seems reasonable to me, but depends on what it's doing.
01:06 MTecknology I'm working on an ext_pillar now that takes 5+ seconds to return.  (not actually, but it could at scale)
01:09 coredumb MTecknology: It's basically a improved reclass clone
01:10 coredumb so reading node classification from jinja/yaml files, overriding pillars, and expanding variables
01:10 whytewolf as long as it doesn't take longer then the pillar refresh it should be fine
01:11 MTecknology I also don't know what reclass is
01:11 coredumb :D
01:11 coredumb whytewolf: it's every 5mn by default right?
01:11 MTecknology What's the easiest way to debug a pillar render error?
01:12 whytewolf i believe the default is 60 seconds
01:12 coredumb oh
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01:13 coredumb whytewolf: and that's per minion right not total agregated time?
01:13 MTecknology ''' Jinja variable 'None' has no attribute 'get' ''' isn't very helpful, at least a line number would be nice
01:13 whytewolf MTecknology: i have no idea. pillar is such a pain when it comes to rendering. pretty much just watching the salt master log. and knowing where what code does what.
01:14 whytewolf coredumb: yes. every minion requests pillar iirc about every 60 seconds
01:14 MTecknology The file it happens in has a butt load of .get() and it doesn't share anything else about the line in the master log
01:14 whytewolf could be min. the unit is fuzy to me right now
01:14 coredumb whytewolf: ok my 0.110s is super fine then ^^
01:15 whytewolf since it is a None.get i would think it is a .get on something returned. which should at least narrow it down if not by much
01:15 MTecknology {% for node, opts in cloud_nodes.get('digitalocean-nodes', {}).iteritems() %}  {{ opts.get('image', ...  There are five loops that could cause it
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01:16 whytewolf well opts should defintly be there. that is a jinja template built in
01:16 whytewolf oh wait. no you override it
01:17 MTecknology oh? Did I steal a thing?
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01:18 whytewolf not steal. just a salt built in object. but if you are not using it no real harm.
01:18 whytewolf https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/vars.html#opts
01:19 whytewolf wouldn't become none. just gets replaced by your forloop for the duration of the loop
01:19 whytewolf well unless the cloud_nodes.get returned a tuple with a second item of None
01:21 whytewolf ... which is possable if you have {} as a default and are not getting anything returned for digitalocean-nodes
01:21 MTecknology ah, dangit
01:22 iggy you can use if in a for loop
01:23 whytewolf yeap. and would be recomended to make sure you are not trying to .get a None
01:24 iggy {% for node, opts in ... if opts %}
01:24 MTecknology It's a state writing something to a file that's causing pillar to do a weird thing
01:24 iggy or something similar
01:24 MTecknology I didn't realize jinja allowed that
01:27 whytewolf https://stackoverflow.com/questions/12655155/jinja2-for-loop-with-conditions <=--- basicly this
01:27 iggy http://jinja.pocoo.org/docs/dev/templates/#for the bit about that fucntionality and it's reason is after the table with the loop variables
01:29 MTecknology Yay! I finally have things working again! :D
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01:48 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt! <+> Latest Versions: 2016.3.6, 2016.11.6 <+> Support: https://www.saltstack.com/support/ <+> Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/ <+> Paste: https://gist.github.com/ <+> See also: #salt-devel, #salt-offtopic <+> We are volunteers and may not have immediate answers <+> The call for speakers for SaltConf17 is now open: http://tinyurl.com/SaltConf17
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10:33 absolutejam Anyone know if the |json filter can do spacing?
10:33 absolutejam Trying to slurp some pillar data into a json file
10:33 absolutejam Otherwise, I can loop it
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11:05 viq https://pbot.rmdir.de/h1F6fc-nV4F_yo0r2va8_w  - any idea what's wrong here? 2016.11.6 on debian 8
11:05 viq absolutejam: what do you mean by spacing?
11:08 viq oh, now I see it....
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11:22 absolutejam yeah, I mean like pprint
11:22 absolutejam add indentation
11:22 absolutejam I'll just live with it on a single line
11:22 absolutejam it's only a config file
11:22 absolutejam trick question number 2:
11:22 absolutejam Does winrepo support local files instead of Git repos?
11:22 absolutejam All the docs are git git git
11:23 absolutejam Nevermind, bad path!
11:23 absolutejam derp
11:25 viq absolutejam: why not feed it to jq or python?
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11:39 viq absolutejam: there is also --out pprint
11:46 acsir @viq: what if you change
11:46 acsir mode: 0644        into
11:46 acsir mode: '0644'
11:47 viq acsir: that needs to be file_mode for file.line
11:48 viq So I got around that, but still didn't manage to make it work
11:48 viq CommandExecutionError: Wrong conditions? Unable to ensure line without knowing where to put it before and/or after.
11:48 viq That's what I'm getting, with multiple attempts at making it put the line somewhere.
11:50 acsir sorry, I didn't checked the function file.line arguments. But in your example, if that's what you are really running, there is twice the 'mode' attribute: the first (correct) with ensure and the last with 0644
11:51 acsir this way the latter override the fist, therefore mode is decode as integer (644) and not as string (ensure)
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11:54 viq yeah, I saw that, and replaced the second one with file_mode as it's supposed to
11:55 viq thanks
11:55 viq Now I need to figure out how to make it actually put a line in possibly non-existent file
11:59 acsir you could run first a file.exists, then if it exist go with file.line, otherwise go with file.managed (with wich you would both create the file and add the line)
12:00 acsir or maybe just go for file.managed if the contentend has to be only one line
12:01 viq Except the file may be on some boxes managed by a different CM, in which case it will have much more than just the line
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12:03 acsir if you have a problem and try to resolve it with regex, then you will have two problem now...
12:04 acsir I think that this is the way to go, you should consider first ipotesys with file.exists, and then file.managed (if none) of file.line (if exists)
12:08 viq mhmm
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12:08 viq Though if file exists, then I most likely don't need to do anything.
12:12 absolutejam viq: I want to render pillar data chunks to json in a tempalte file
12:12 absolutejam So in my file.managed: I have a source: somejinjafile.j2
12:12 absolutejam then in there, I'm rendering pillar data -> json
12:15 absolutejam Anyone know if there's an easier way to create minion-specific pillars instead of creating a pillar file then assigning to the minion in the top.sls?
12:16 absolutejam like, could I apply a {{ host }}_pillar.sls in top.sls and create that as needed?
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12:17 c06 in puppet haproxy have some inbuilt resource files similar to that salt also have.?
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13:04 whytewolf absolutejam: https://gist.github.com/whytewolf/2d008d4619c01910a221bcb6599f8035
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14:19 fl3sh hi, it is possible to enbale bitlocker using salt?
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14:26 whytewolf fl3sh: you miight want to watch out for using bitlocker with salt. https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/41298 as for doing it with salt. i don't think the standard modules cover it. but there is always cmd.*
14:27 whytewolf you could also make a bitlocker module. and state.
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14:33 fl3sh ok, thx
14:37 fl3sh I was thinking about powershell script
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14:50 fl3sh whytewolf: should I create module or use powershell script?
14:50 whytewolf thats up to you.
14:50 whytewolf both are valid methods.
14:50 whytewolf if you want to give it back to the saltstack comunity i would recomend going the module/state route.
14:51 fl3sh hmm ok
14:51 fl3sh I will try both
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15:15 edrocks Are you supposed to use `tpldir` to import files in `file.managed` files(ie non sls files)?
15:16 edrocks I can't find any docs on it besides usage here https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/modules/all/salt.modules.file.html#salt.modules.file.dirname
15:19 jdipierro edrocks If the file you're trying ti import is in salt's file tree you should be able to use the `salt://` path. I think
15:20 jdipierro If that doesn't work this issue has some `tpldir` usage you could peek at: https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/4348
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15:21 edrocks no luck with `salt://` or `tpldir`
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15:21 edrocks I tried using `tpldir` but it's undefined
15:21 edrocks I'm even on develop from a few weeks ago so it's near nitrogen
15:23 whytewolf edrocks: what are you trying to do exactly. where is the file in question you are trying to import?
15:23 edrocks whytewolf: I have a file which is managed using jinja and I am trying `{% from 'someRelativeFile.jinja' import someVar %}`
15:24 whytewolf where does someRelativeFile.jinja exist? on the master?
15:24 edrocks I get TemplateNotFound for that and using an absolute path with `salt://` and with an import like this `{%- from salt['file.normpath'](tpldir + '/../vars.jinja') import vars as _parent %}`
15:24 edrocks in the last case `tpldir` is not defined
15:25 edrocks yea
15:25 whytewolf not sure saltfs has ..
15:25 edrocks whytewolf: it is on master in the same dir as the other file
15:25 edrocks it is actually in a ` file.recurse` for the entire dir
15:26 whytewolf https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/ref/states/vars.html#slspath
15:26 whytewolf tplpath is for the master. not the minion
15:26 whytewolf slspath might be what you want
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15:28 whytewolf not sure if a nonsls jinja file will have slspath. if it doens't pass it in through context.
15:32 edrocks no luck
15:32 edrocks slspath is undefined even when running through a state
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15:35 whytewolf brb
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15:40 edrocks whytewolf: Got it working! `{% from 'my/long/path/with/a/domain.com/data.sls' import myvariable with context %}`
15:40 edrocks You put the full `salt://` path without the `salt://` prefix and it works
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16:01 whytewolf back
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16:02 whytewolf yeah sorry about that, should have been more clear. jinja automaticcly adds the salt:// part of it when fetching the file. i am surprised that slspath doesn't exist in a state file.
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16:50 astronouth7303 should I be making bugfix PRs against 2016.11 or 2017.7?
16:51 whytewolf 2016.3 if it exists there
16:52 whytewolf "earlyiest stable release that has the bug"
16:52 astronouth7303 ????
16:52 absolutejam whytewolf: you legend
16:53 absolutejam Didn't know if I could use jinja in pillar too
16:53 absolutejam Top
16:54 woodtablet i agree, whytewolf is legend =D
16:54 whytewolf lol
16:54 absolutejam I've had 'write Salt DSC module' on my todo list for weeks
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16:55 absolutejam I need some spare time
16:55 whytewolf spare time? I'm not sure that exists
16:56 absolutejam I concur
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17:00 MTecknology Does time exist?
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17:24 lordcirth_work Time is an illusion; lunchtime doubly so.
17:24 whytewolf now drink up and eat those peanuts
17:29 dstensnes this is really funny
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