Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #salt, 2018-04-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

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00:10 copec https://unaen.org/pb/2q9
00:13 * whytewolf shrugs
00:14 whytewolf bug report?
00:24 copec I suppose so
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01:57 Topic for #salt is now Welcome to #salt! <+> Latest Versions: 2017.7.5, 2018.3.0 <+> Support: https://www.saltstack.com/support/ <+> Logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/salt/ <+> Paste: https://gist.github.com/ <+> See also: #salt-devel, #salt-offtopic, and https://saltstackcommunity.herokuapp.com (for slack) <+> We are volunteers and may not have immediate answers
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13:53 cbosdonnat I changed some rst file, how am I supposed to update the corresponding man files?
13:56 cbosdonnat when running make man in doc folder, I'm getting a bunch of import failures like sal.modules.boto_vpc and a few others
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14:56 lordcirth_work Will repo.saltstack.com have a 'bionic' repo when Ubuntu 18.04 releases on the 26th?  Or will it be a bit after?
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15:17 zer0def lordcirth_work: from what i've noticed on the repo, the team's looking to release new point versions, so assuming bionic makes it to stable by then, possibly
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16:58 Edgan lordcirth_work: I already use custom debs built on 14.04 on 16.04. I suspect the same will be true on 18.04.
16:59 Edgan lordcirth_work: 2018.3.0 does have an issue on 14.04 with needing a newer version of a python module from 16.04. So I think most of what you get out of the repos is dependecies, but even that is marginal.
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17:17 justinl How active is the Slack channel compared to this one? I was trying to use it but it says user_disabled when I supply an email address.
17:19 rockey justinl: everyone posting from the integration "onslack" are slack users
17:20 justinl Ah, so this is probably the best channel for general discussion?
17:22 Edgan justinl: Yes, this is still the most popular. I think the people that use Slack do it to have one less window option, and a slightly better client.
17:22 rockey you probably get more content on slack, but for general discussions yes
17:23 justinl Cool, thanks!
17:23 Edgan justinl: I think Slack is better, but don't like switching between organizations in Slack all the time.
17:24 justinl We're looking at moving from Flowdock to Slack at work, so that's why I was interested in the SaltStack Slack channel.
17:26 Edgan justinl: We use Slack at my current company, and most of the companies I have worked at in the last five years. The other less popular one is Hipchat.
17:26 MTecknology $client uses hipchat
17:26 Edgan justinl: Atlassian manages to suck so people in that are already using Jira and Confluence.
17:26 MTecknology I've used slackoff and hippiechat... they both suck
17:26 Edgan justinl: But in my experience Slack is better
17:26 justinl Yeah we're a big Atlassian shop, currently with both of those and in the process of adding Service Desk to replace Spiceworks.
17:26 cyp3d :( we have microsoft teams wish we had slack
17:27 Edgan MTecknology: Just saying it all sucks, or think something is better than Slack?
17:27 MTecknology IRC > *
17:28 MTecknology I also don't mind XMPP
17:29 Edgan MTecknology: I think it is just because you have used it for so long. Other than it is a walled garden, which is actually an upside to Slack for business, it is clearly a better user experience.
17:29 MTecknology I disagree about user experience, but I recognize I'm not the majority.
17:30 Edgan MTecknology: On the flip side, I am not saying it couldn't be improved. It is just the best overall experience I have seen.
17:31 Edgan MTecknology: It's weakest link is search.
17:31 MTecknology I consider both to be a pretty terrible experience. XMPP doesn't bother me because you can choose whatever client you want, including irssi.
17:32 MTecknology I did think hippiechat was better, though. It's mostly uncluttered.
17:32 Edgan MTecknology: IRC weakest link is a lack of good smartphone clients.
17:32 MTecknology +10
17:33 zer0def i should really start using irc more either through weechat-android+relay or quassel to verify this
17:33 Edgan MTecknology: It is the single biggest reason companies wouldn't go with IRC outside small tech circles.
17:33 zer0def see where the experience can be improved
17:33 coredumb I use "Simple IRC" On android
17:34 coredumb it ain't that bad
17:34 zer0def well, i'd like a bouncer, too
17:34 MTecknology I use ssh+screen+irssi
17:34 zer0def uncertain whether znc would fit the bill on mobile
17:35 MTecknology I have irssi splits for a channel list and highlight window so when I load it on a phone, things go to hell.
17:35 coredumb ssh on smartphone gives me the creeps
17:35 Edgan I use a bouncer, but IRC really needs a built-in browser, which is the next biggest weakness of IRC.
17:35 MTecknology webchat?
17:35 MTecknology https://webchat.freenode.net/
17:35 Edgan MTecknology: But web stuff on a phone isn't super awesome either. So you want a native app, and a polished one at that.
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17:38 zer0def are we sure lack of a built-in browser is the issue and not just inlining the way Slack does?
17:39 zer0def or even not necessarily inlining, could be displaying thumbnails on hover
17:39 dezertol just my .02 we used slack for a while but opted to run a rocketchat server
17:40 zer0def rocketchat still only got a mongo db backend?
17:41 dezertol ya
17:41 dezertol wish it would do dynamodb
17:41 dezertol but.. it is what it is
17:42 zer0def well, i guess gitlab's bundled with mattermost, but last time i've needed to run that, mobile client selection wasn't too stellar
17:43 dlloyd its improved in the last year
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17:45 zer0def dlloyd: to the point where joe-shmoe users aren't whiny about user experience? including slow loads, memory/battery consumption, client instability
17:47 dlloyd eh, its not great, but its at least similar to my experiences with the slack app
17:47 dlloyd since its self hosted push notifications are a bit more work
17:47 dlloyd but they rebuilt it ~a year ago, much better than it was, which still isn't saying much
17:49 zer0def yeah, so i've heard, but as long as the experience is similar to that of slack, regular users have little to complain about
17:50 dlloyd yup. i have had some issues with it recovering from repeated signal loss (subway ftw), and as above, the push notification hurdles
17:50 zer0def well, minus threading in channels, this needs to die in a fire
17:52 zer0def well, i guess there is also purple-slack, might be worthwhile to see how that fares… and then how it fares with bitlbee
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18:46 crux can a minion be configured to multiple masters in the case where these are not redundant masters? meaning, they will not have the same master keys. the second master would be used to give a user access to only their own minions, while the main master would control all minions
18:49 zer0def this sounds like a hierarchy and whenever master hierarchy comes up, syndic should be mentioned
18:50 zer0def i've never had need to make use of them, but i think there are authorization mechanisms per user
18:51 crux aha, yes this sounds like what I'm looking for. Thank you!
18:51 whytewolf this actually sounds like eauth might also be a good fit.
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18:52 zer0def yeah, i meant eauth, just didn't remember the name: https://docs.saltstack.com/en/latest/topics/eauth/access_control.html
18:53 whytewolf there are also more fine grained controlls in eAPI/Enterprise
18:53 crux sounds good, thanks to you both. I'm constantly amazed at what Salt can do
18:58 zer0def if you actually want to enforce per-user minions, i'd probably just leverage salt-api/eauth and pepper
18:59 zer0def or that's at least the preliminary idea
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19:00 infinity_ I think I finally figured out why salt kills the mac's I'm testing on. https://github.com/saltstack/salt/issues/27402
19:00 crux yes i think that's the idea. the user who get's access to the syndic would be able to control the minions in their subnet. those minions are already joined to the existing master, sounds like they would have to be removed and configured to talk to the syndic instead
19:02 infinity_ anyone know of a workaround for salt on the mac
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19:38 crux anyone know how to use the beacon validate method?
19:39 crux just looking for an example. debug logs are saying my beacons.conf is not a valid dict, but i dont see what's wrong
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19:41 crux or rather, the service beacon that I have in the beacons.conf
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19:52 zer0def crux: you're probably should be looking at eauth, not syndic
19:53 zer0def english is hard, btw.
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19:53 crux well I also don't want this user to log into the main master. I want them to have their own sub-master. sounds like syndic + eauth is the way to go
19:54 crux although ive only just started reading about both of those things
19:54 zer0def they don't need a sub-master, as described above, you can set authorization based on eauth/salt-api and make them use a salt-api client, like pepper
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19:55 zer0def or, if you allow shell access, just set appropriate local ACLs and make sure they're unable to change them
19:56 crux hmm ok, will read up on pepper
19:56 zer0def adding syndics for ACL purposes is a pretty bad idea
19:57 crux the user is requesting this because they apparently have their own states and pillar data, but I dont want to be in charge of keeping those updated and running them. so syndic sounds like a good option to give them their own master to do all that on, and only connect their systems to the syndic
19:58 crux but ill look at what pepper will allow them to do, it may work as well
19:58 zer0def oh, that complicates things
19:59 zer0def now i see why you jumped to that being a reasonable option
20:00 zer0def i'd still be a bit hesitant, because different syndic-masters may have different `file_roots` contents
20:00 crux yes i was thinking that too. file_roots would need some consideration. we use gitfs for our master, and they would likely have their stuff in gitlab as well, and would need that set accordingly
20:01 crux more reading to do :D
20:01 zer0def reading is one thing, but experimentally testing things is another
20:03 crux too true
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20:44 pcn while transitioning to 2018.3.0 does anyone else see more timeouts than before from 2017.7.2 or similar minions?
20:45 pcn Sorry, I mean when using a 2018.3.0 saltmaster
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21:44 Edgan pcn: Is it working at all?
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