IRC log for #sdl, 2010-01-07

All times shown according to UTC.

Time	Nick	Message
01:54		TonyC joined #sdl
02:19	* j_king	taking a mario break to hack some SDL_perl
02:27	kthakore	j_king: yay!
02:36		TonyC joined #sdl
03:15		japhb joined #sdl
04:14		TonyC joined #sdl
04:53		TonyC joined #sdl
07:22		TonyC joined #sdl
12:14		SmokeMachine joined #sdl
12:59		ruoso joined #sdl
19:21		kthakore_server joined #sdl
19:22	kthakore_server	ruoso: the trac is fixed
19:24	ruoso	was it broken?
19:25	kthakore_server	ruoso: um that reference error thing
19:27		ruoso: also I added ticket 80
19:28		if you would like to give it a shot
19:31	ruoso	I'll take a look...
19:32		but I'm quite busy in the end of this week
19:32	kthakore_server	ruoso: np
19:32		ruoso: you asked me to fix the trac so I did :p
19:43		kthakore_server left #sdl
19:59	ruoso	did I?
20:58	kthakore	ruoso: dunno someone did
20:58		thougt it was you
20:58		ruoso: also I mentioned you on http://yapgh.blogspot.com/
21:00	ruoso	I saw it
21:00		thanks for the notice
22:25		run4flat joined #sdl
22:26	run4flat	howdy
22:26	kthakore	hi run4flat
22:26		ok so there is a struct in SDL called AudioSpec
22:26	run4flat	ok
22:26	kthakore	it has a callback that you can use to make sound prcedurally
22:26	run4flat	yeah
22:27	kthakore	now to do that you get a stream ( chunk of memory) and you write to it
22:27		so one of the devs came up with this gem (I take no credit for this )
22:27		http://github.com/kthakore/SDL[…]/core_audiospec.t
22:27		here is an example of this in work
22:27	run4flat	well, lemme take a look
22:27	kthakore	see the sub call back
22:27		callback()
22:27		the magic happens there
22:27		in substr
22:28		$$streamref is the chunk of memory
22:29	run4flat	Are you using substr to write to memory?
22:29	kthakore	run4flat: the XS is this http://github.com/kthakore/SDL[…]/AudioSpec.xs#L54
22:29	run4flat	to write to $$streamref
22:29	kthakore	run4flat: yeah!
22:29	run4flat	:)
22:29		cool
22:29	kthakore	run4flat: it are insane stuff like this is why I Love OS
22:29		open source
22:29		run4flat: I would have never come up with that
22:29	run4flat	very nice
22:29	kthakore	run4flat: the credit for that goes to ruoso
22:30	run4flat	cool
22:30	kthakore	run4flat: so I will use this on surface and other places which should make it more accessible to PDL fans!
22:30		once I get some time
22:30	run4flat	very slick, although like you say, it's hard to come up with it
22:30	kthakore	run4flat: indeed
22:30	run4flat	so it'll need lots of documentation to make it not opaque. :)
22:30	kthakore	I didn't even know substr could be used like that
22:30		run4flat: yup
22:31	run4flat	I had some idea it could do that...
22:31	kthakore	this is alpha but suprisingly stable
22:31	run4flat	but you really need to know the structure of your object to do that
22:31	kthakore	run4flat: indeed
22:31		you need to know your format
22:31		for sound
22:31	run4flat	yes, that too
22:31	kthakore	this example is 8 bit unsigned
22:31		run4flat: all I can say is GENIUS!!!
22:32	run4flat	:D
22:32	kthakore	:D
22:32		FOSS for the WIN
22:32	run4flat	haha
22:32	kthakore	run4flat: I would never ever ever see this at work
22:32		and we use C + Perl too
22:32		in the most stupid way
22:32	run4flat	haha
22:33		"in the most stupid way" -> so disheartening
22:33	kthakore	run4flat: yeah ...
22:33		it is like this
22:33		[C] -> [flat_file_insanity] -> perl
22:33		like WTF!
22:33		the flat_file has this comment in it
22:33		#Perl to C interface
22:34		WTF!!!!
22:34	run4flat	that's how you get your data from C to perl?
22:34		man
22:34		that sucks
22:34	kthakore	run4flat: I know
22:34		it is soooo stupid!
22:34	run4flat	that's early 90s perl right there
22:34	kthakore	oh we are still in perl 5.8 in some places
22:34		so I am not suprised
22:34	run4flat	yeah, but you're using it like it's Perl4
22:34		:)
22:34		and you can tell them I said that
22:34	kthakore	heh
22:34		I will
22:34	run4flat	:D
22:35	kthakore	and get fired in my intership job
22:35		heh
22:35	run4flat	right
22:35		maybe, perhaps, you shouldn't do that
22:35	kthakore	yeah
22:35		prolly not
22:35	run4flat	until it's your last day
22:35	kthakore	it works and who am I to complain
22:35	run4flat	this is true
22:35		and what is Perl if it's not pragmatic
22:35		right?
22:35	kthakore	run4flat: it would be very very very expensive to change
22:35	run4flat	that's actually the beauty of it
22:36	kthakore	run4flat: yeah thats true
22:36		run4flat: a few years ago in the code checkins I see that they tried some Java
22:36		Java crapped out on the flat file
22:36	run4flat	hehe
22:37	kthakore	till now I think perl is the only lang that can handle a 3 gb flat file
22:37	run4flat	and they didn't want to spend time on developing a new interface
22:37	kthakore	yup!
22:37		it would be insane expensive
22:37	run4flat	the power of inertia
22:37	kthakore	yeah
22:37	run4flat	very expensive inertia
22:37	kthakore	it is very very stable though
22:37		I admire that though
22:37	run4flat	and it's probably not a bottle-neck either
22:37	kthakore	nope
22:37	run4flat	so changing it would be unnecessary optimization
22:37	kthakore	the hardware is tooo slow
22:37		hehe
22:38	run4flat	ha
22:38	kthakore	they just upgrade the hardware so perl can read and write to it faster
22:38		if anything I think the hardware is the bottle neck
22:38		I would love to see that beast on SSD
22:38	run4flat	but from the business standpoint, does it really need to go much faster?
22:39	kthakore	run4flat: I guess not but we have had days where tooo many transactions and the hardware goes fuck you
22:39		but those are rare I hear
22:40		I guess the biznezz guys went hmmm 20 mil for 1 day out of 3 years case
22:40		GTFO
22:40	run4flat	yeah. Now, if you could make a drop-in replacement, that would probably blow their socks off
22:40		but you'd have to convince them it's stable
22:40	kthakore	run4flat: no way man ... that is le impossible
22:40	run4flat	and, of course, you'd have to do it for cheap
22:40		:)
22:40	kthakore	run4flat: this thing does one thing and it does it WELL
22:41		I mean insanely well
22:41	run4flat	dumb, but well
22:41	kthakore	run4flat: yup pure unix style
22:41		run4flat: in 15 years the down time is like 3 days it is a legend
22:41	run4flat	wow
22:41		that's great
22:41	kthakore	yeah but I don't get to see the code :(
22:42		I don't think anyone knows the code anymore
22:42		they just updated to 5.8 recently like 3 or 4 years ago
22:43	run4flat	ah, so they're using the black-box technique for code maintenance
22:43	kthakore	I am suprised perl 5.8 was that backwards compatible
22:43		run4flat: yeah
22:43		run4flat: I got called into do some grey box but that is on buggy stuff
22:43	run4flat	if it was written 15 years ago... was that Perl 5
22:43		or wast that Perl4?
22:43	kthakore	donno
22:43		never saw that code
22:43	run4flat	hmm
22:43	kthakore	I am asuming perl 4 ?
22:44		run4flat: I don't know the signs to look for to tell the difference
22:44	run4flat	Wikipedia says Perl5.0.0 was released on October 7, 1994
22:44	kthakore	yeah
22:45		it has been updated since then too
22:45	run4flat	I'd be surprised if they started using Perl5 for production code when it had only been out for a year
22:45	kthakore	yeah
22:45	run4flat	so that could be Perl4 code
22:45	kthakore	2002 was the last update before the one in 07 I think
22:45	run4flat	that's really darn impressive
22:45	kthakore	yup
22:46		I bet that sucker will be around went I am dead
22:46	run4flat	:]
22:48		BTW, I have a couple of thoughts about how to combine PDL and SDL for some fast raster manipulation
22:48	kthakore	run4flat: shoot
22:48	run4flat	The first is to somehow make a piddle that uses a Surface's memory for its own memory
22:48		so you could modify the surface by accessing the piddle
22:48		which should be pretty fast
22:49		the second idea is a few PDL threaded functions for drawing pixels, blitting, and drawing rectangles
22:49		that way you could blit 500 small images really, really quickly
22:49		and blitting a grid of images would be super-fast
22:50		I've been thinking about them
22:50		I'd implement the second idea, but I don't know enough about XS to do it
22:50		so, those are my ideas
22:50		:)
22:52	kthakore	douse piddle allow you to swap out the pointer to some where else?
22:52	run4flat	it may...
22:52	kthakore	run4flat: also bliting is fast if you do it correctly
22:52	run4flat	I am not sure about the internals
22:52	kthakore	run4flat: you never blit straight to video screen
22:53	run4flat	no, you don't blit to the screen
22:53	kthakore	you blit in memory for one frame
22:53		then you blit memory to video on update
22:53	run4flat	I mean blitting the same image at 50 different locations
22:53		to do that in Perl, you have to use a Perl loop over 50 locations
22:53	kthakore	oh that is already fast no
22:53	run4flat	well, it's fast
22:53	kthakore	run4flat: ah I see waht you mean
22:53	run4flat	until you start talking about 300 different blits
22:54		which I do sometimes in my simulation, actually
22:54		:)
22:54		Anyway, those are my ideas
22:54	kthakore	cool
22:55	run4flat	That having been said, I should probably push off
22:55	kthakore	run4flat: make ticket!
22:55		trac?
22:55	Hyppolit_sdl	trac is http://sdlperl.ath.cx/projects/SDLPerl
22:55	run4flat	oh, OK
22:55	kthakore	run4flat: ^^
22:55		then push off
22:55		:)
22:55	run4flat	I guess...
22:55		I feel like I keep coming up with good ideas
22:55		but never taking responsibility for them
22:55	kthakore	then tickets!!!
22:55	run4flat	but, if you insist. :)
22:55	kthakore	run4flat: I will make you take resposible
22:55	run4flat	haha
22:55	kthakore	you deadbeat hacker
22:55		like deadbeat parent
22:56		your tickets need LOVE!
22:56	run4flat	never taking care of my sh*t
22:56	kthakore	run4flat: you can swear in this channel
22:56		like FUCK!!!
22:56		run4flat: we are very perverse like that
22:56	run4flat	you haven't taught Hyppolit_sdl to say things in response?
22:56		that would be funny
22:57	kthakore	XS?
22:57	Hyppolit_sdl	XS is anal rape and also sometimes useful
22:57	kthakore	run4flat: ^^
22:57	run4flat	You know, I think I remember when you guys set that one up
22:57		:)
22:58		Hmm, I seem to have forgotten my Trak password
22:59		Oh, I got it
22:59		never mind
23:00	kthakore	run4flat: yay!
23:01		run4flat: we still have others like Getty who never gave love to their tickets :p
23:01	run4flat	yeah, well, that'll likely be me, too
23:01	Getty	hey, adding tickets is already a contribution ;)
23:01	run4flat	haha
23:01	Getty	its better then telling you to make a ticket :-P
23:01		whatever, i dont need SDL for now
23:01		so............. ;)
23:02		i added the requirement for me to play with SDL, he wanted it!
23:02		and btw: kthakore knows how required it is :-P
23:03	kthakore	run4flat: no worries
23:03		run4flat: once this exam is done
23:03		mountain of mountain dew and HACK FACE ON!
23:04	run4flat	ha, great!
23:04	kthakore	I want to get Frozen Bubble on strawberry perl and hence SDL Perl with it
23:04		run4flat: it is my secret plan :P
23:04	run4flat	I see
23:04		when is Super Strawberry Perl coming out, btw?
23:04		do you know?
23:05	kthakore	run4flat: I think Alias said Feb or March
23:05		dunno
23:05	run4flat	that will be pretty cool
23:05		I read something about how he wants to include PDL in it, but he hasn't approached the PDL folks directly
23:05		so I hope he doesn't run into too much trouble
23:06		we'd love for Strawberry Perl to have PDL in it
23:06		anyway, ticket's been added
23:06		and assigned to me
23:08	kthakore	yay!
23:08		run4flat: I dubb thee minion 34
23:08		Hyppolit_sdl: run4flat is minion 34
23:08	Hyppolit_sdl	run4flat was unknown
23:08		run4flat is now minion 34
23:08	kthakore	Hyppolit_sdl: minion count is 34
23:08		Hyppolit_sdl: $minion_count is 34
23:08	Hyppolit_sdl	$minion_count was unknown
23:08		$minion_count is now 34
23:08	kthakore	heh
23:10	run4flat	great
23:28		I shall be off
23:28		run4flat left #sdl