Results from days 1 to 10, from overall 81 days
Result pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
| 16:08 | PerlJam | yep :( | |
| 16:08 | cognominal joined #perl6 | ||
| 16:08 | masak | we got DateTime/Temporal settled. it works. it's a success. | |
| 16:08 | masak | next up: IO. | |
| 16:08 | masak | let's do this, people. |
| 22:31 | dalek | Heuristic branch merge: pushed 17 commits to nqp/vmarray-list by arnsholt | |
| 22:31 | arnsholt | Oh, good bot! =D | |
| 22:38 | masak | LlamaRider: everyone and no-one is the maintainer, I guess. I initiated the last Temporal refactor, but the code was quickly appropriated and improved by various people. | |
| 22:39 | masak | LlamaRider: there have been suggestions now and then that we take a wider grasp around timezone handling. my response is always the same: "go ahead, commit away! if we like the result enough, we'll put it in the spec, too!" | |
| 22:39 | LlamaRider | masak: I am getting timezone failures in the spectest and when I debugged my way into the timezone code my instinct was to rewrite rather than patch. | |
| 22:41 | LlamaRider | I felt like rewriting since timezones are a lie in the current code - they're just syntax sugar behind doing offset arithmetic | |
| 22:42 | LlamaRider | at least that's the impression I got from the DateTime-local-timezone class | |
| 22:44 | masak | if something is outright wrong in Temporal, then of course we should fix that. | |
| 22:44 | masak | and yes, I got that impression too last time I looked at both the spec and the Rakudo implementation. | |
| 22:44 | LlamaRider | well, a timezone is just an Int that has a negative or positive number of minutes in it. But $*TZ isn't conforming to that and is being the above-mentioned syntax sugar. I have gripes mainly with $*TZ right now | |
| 23:20 | LlamaRider | The spec doesn't mention anything about the nature of $*TZ ... I guess I will switch it to an int and refactor... Though to actually compute the TZ I will need to port some of the DateTime::Timezone magic. Will see | |
| 23:20 | LlamaRider | Also, now I feel awkward since moritz threw push permissions on me and I don't know how the submission cycle to rakudo works. Should I wait for someone to review my code in a branch and then push it? Or just push directly in Temporal.pm? | |
| 23:20 | masak | right. I guess the proposal is to put more of such magic in src/core/Temporal.pm | |
| 23:21 | masak | LlamaRider: short answer: do what you feel is appropriate. | |
| 23:21 | masak | do a branch if you're unsure. do a direct commit if you're relatively sure. |
| 09:03 | masak | oh! | |
| 09:04 | masak | I'm assuming timezone is hours, but it's something else, right? :) | |
| 09:05 | * masak | reads S32/Temporal | |
| 09:05 | kresike joined #perl6 | ||
| 09:05 | kresike | hello all you happy perl6 people | |
| 09:16 | huf | masak: it's not a particularly useful thing to construct a timezone from due to dst rules. | |
| 09:16 | sorear | and if you're around UTC-1200 or UTC+1200, it can flip by 24h depending on the whims of local politicians | |
| 09:17 | masak | huf: cf discussion on how much logic to include in S32/Temporal. | |
| 09:17 | masak | huf: I'm fine with someone adding all the world's timezone handling in there. that person should volunteer to do the work, though. and to maintain it. | |
| 09:18 | sorear | masak: we can outsource the ongoing data collection process - just need to make it read zoneinfo files |
| 15:28 | [Coke] | which is a different scenario that what I posed. | |
| 15:32 | masak | gfldex: we don't ignore time zones so much as leave most of the handling to the programmer or non-core modules. | |
| 15:32 | masak | gfldex: this was a conscious decision at the time we refactored S32/Temporal back in 2010, to delimit the scope of DateTime and surrounding classes. | |
| 15:33 | SunilJoshi joined #perl6 | ||
| 15:38 | hash_table joined #perl6 | ||
| 16:10 | masak | oh huh. | |
| 16:10 | jnthn | Well, + is defined in the setting :) | |
| 16:10 | masak | Temporal.pm is fairly late, though. | |
| 16:11 | jnthn | Consider givign the enum keys explicit values using the pair syntax | |
| 16:11 | masak | ok. | |
| 18:03 | SmokeMac_ joined #perl6 | ||
| 18:04 | masak | agreed. | |
| 18:04 | masak | japhb: I'm glad we got S32/Temporal straightened up after years of fumbling in the dark. | |
| 18:05 | moritz | now somebody please do the same for IO :-) | |
| 18:05 | japhb | masak, I don't know if I am the man for that. On the one hand, I have spent some time trying to get datetime handling "correct", but I really don't feel encyclopedic in such knowledge, and I have already committed to too many Perl 6 projects as it is. So I am torn. :-/ |
| 21:24 | moritz | does adding a sentence about a calendar not being supported as "slightly more work"? | |
| 21:24 | xenoterracide joined #perl6 | ||
| 21:26 | masak | it's nice to see that temporal bikeshedding is still alive and well ;) | |
| 21:26 | masak | anyway, I plan to add something like a .delta method into the spec when I find the tuits. | |
| 21:26 | masak | and then I might as well go and implement it, too :) | |
| 21:28 | * masak | .oO( mmm, Hebrew dates ) | |
| 21:29 | masak | lue: yes, Duration is part of CPAN's DateTime. | |
| 21:29 | masak | lue: part of the reason the temporal spec doesn't have it yet is that civic time is so messy, and I'm not even sure Durations can be made to follow standard mathematical laws. | |
| 21:30 | masak | maybe they can, to the point where you can say "things either behave sanely, or throw an exception". | |
| 21:30 | japhb_ | masak, if by "standard mathematical laws" you mean associativity and suchlike, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. |
| 20:52 | masak | "What's up?" "2012." :P | |
| 20:53 | lorn joined #perl6 | ||
| 20:53 | masak | (either in the sense of "all used up", or in the Chinese spatial-temporal synesthesia sense of time proceeding downwards) | |
| 20:55 | Bruce__ | Does anyone know why map loops don't seem to run with a print statement after them? | |
| 20:55 | masak | Bruce__: you've fallen victim to insufficient sink-ness in the Rakudo implementation. |
| 13:05 | GlitchMr | Those were first in Perl 5. | |
| 13:05 | GlitchMr | Similarly, (?: ) | |
| 13:05 | masak | lichtkind: try to avoid phrasings like "that's how it's spelled now", which induces a temporal sequencing between Perl 5 and Perl 6 that does not accord with observable reality. ;) | |
| 13:05 | Celelibi joined #perl6 | ||
| 13:05 | masak | GlitchMr: yes, but which languages? |
| 07:01 | masak | .ymd and .hms aren't in there. | |
| 07:02 | masak | that makes it easier to think that it might have been just an omission. | |
| 07:06 | * masak | is kinda glad we didn't end up with "hextime" in the Temporal spec: https://github.com/perl6/specs[…]2afc17596a#L0R151 | |
| 07:12 | brrt joined #perl6 | ||
| 07:12 | sorear | *blink* | |
| 07:15 | masak | well, it was good that that version got pushed, I think. for me, it was a wake-up call; the Temporal spec could be changed from something bad to something even worse. but it could also be improved through focused effort. | |
| 07:16 | masak | I think the current spec has stood the test of time. | |
| 07:16 | masak | well, apart from the parts that have drastically changed, of course ;) |
| 22:21 | pmichaud | anyway, seeing that I agree: BUG | |
| 22:21 | * masak | submits rakudobug | |
| 22:22 | masak | moritz: I agree that we should have .ymd and .hms in S32/Temporal... but... | |
| 22:23 | masak | moritz: some part of me in 2012 wonders what it was that made me reject it in 2010. because I'm pretty sure I considered it. | |
| 22:24 | * geekosaur | recalls a bunch of "don't hardcode a preference for one particular date / time system" back then | |
| 22:37 | quietfanatic | Ah, yes, interpolating strings directly would cause problems like 0:11:4 | |
| 22:37 | sorear | DateTime.now.fmt('%d/%m/%y') would also be shorter | |
| 22:38 | * masak | will leave it to simmer in the general discourse for a day or so, and then add it to the Temporal spec | |
| 22:38 | masak | sorear: yes, but that would further overload format strings, and I don't like format strings. | |
| 22:38 | quietfanatic | yes, but it'd need a different name from .fmt |
| 13:43 | masak | aye. we did. | |
| 13:44 | moritz | says who? | |
| 13:44 | masak | S32/Temporal. | |
| 13:49 | dalek joined #perl6 | ||
| 13:49 | Util joined #perl6 |