Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #testml, 2013-03-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:30 GitHub132 joined #testml
00:30 GitHub132 [testml-pm] ingydotnet pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/PnBECg
00:30 GitHub132 testml-pm/master 101fd6d Ingy döt Net: Tweaks from ruby porting
00:30 GitHub132 left #testml
00:50 ingy rking: ping!
00:51 rking ingy: pong
00:56 ingy oh hey rking
00:56 ingy just phone called you
00:56 ingy :)
00:57 ingy so testml-rb is totally kicking!
00:57 ingy it is 100% in sync with -pm
00:57 rking Oh?
00:57 ingy in both tests and code
00:58 ingy Finished tests in 0.419339s, 54.8482 tests/s, 388.7067 assertions/s.
00:58 ingy 23 tests, 163 assertions, 0 failures, 0 errors, 0 skips
00:58 ingy passing the testml-tml suite
00:58 ingy and also the ported tests
00:59 * rking temporarily gives up on search for phone.
00:59 ingy All tests successful.
00:59 ingy Files=23, Tests=145,  2 wallclock secs ( 0.15 usr  0.07 sys +  1.55 cusr  0.18 csys =  1.95 CPU)
00:59 ingy Result: PASS
00:59 rking When I come home, my phone becomes the gaming system du jour.
00:59 ingy ruby is so much faster :\
00:59 rking Do you know why?
01:00 rking Just having a native object model?
01:00 ingy I know spiritually
01:00 ingy ruby and python seem to be able to keep up with technology
01:01 ingy reini urban knows
01:01 ingy you and him should meet up
01:01 ingy he lives in tx
01:03 ingy so the testml-rb is the full implementation
01:03 ingy based on pegex-rb
01:03 ingy I didn't have to change a line of pegex-rb to get everything perfect
01:04 ingy now I will go get pegexx-rb up to date with pegex-pm
01:04 ingy pegex-rb is not passing all the same tests
01:04 ingy rking: we should pairup on testml-py
01:07 rking You're testing me on my Acmeism.
01:07 ingy ?
01:07 rking (Python)
01:08 ingy I think it would be a great exercise
01:08 rking Trying to lure me in with the promise of pairing, only to make me a slave to the Heinous Italian.
01:08 rking Yeah, you're probably right.
01:08 ingy perl and ruby are soooo close
01:08 ingy python would take some effort
01:09 ingy plus it would be a great intro into how to bootstrap a testml implementation
01:09 rking Yeah
01:09 ingy since there's nothing for you or I to protect
01:10 ingy wanna do it now?
01:10 rking I can't now, babysittin
01:10 ingy until when?
01:10 rking Actually, we could do a supahardcore session tomorrow.
01:10 ingy ?
01:10 ingy oic
01:10 rking Like from 5 my time til 8 ?
01:10 ingy 7-10 here?
01:11 rking No, other way. =(
01:11 ingy oh right
01:12 ingy I can do 6am
01:12 rking Morning's aren't good for me
01:13 ingy oh you meant 8am?
01:13 rking I have this commute I have to work around, then it's solid work til 2pm Pacific
01:13 ingy I thought you meant 15 hours
01:13 ingy call in sick
01:13 rking I guess my standard for 'supahardcore' is too low.
01:15 ingy we'd probably spend the first 3 hours upgrading my ... skills :P
01:16 ingy ruby is a pretty good langauge all in all
01:16 ingy I think I will build the first generation of acmeism with it
01:17 ingy it makes perl feel a bit tedious at times
01:17 ingy although it's a pretty close match
01:17 ingy https://gist.github.com/c77ad65bc01b9b3b1305
01:18 ingy https://gist.github.com/5dd19d600208f4b8384a
01:18 ingy compare those
01:19 ingy not sure why testml/runtime.rb is bigger than perl…
01:19 ingy usually ruby is 5-10% less lines
01:20 ingy python will be more significant in this regard :)
01:20 ingy probably
01:20 ingy some python idioms, um…
01:20 ingy aren't
01:21 ingy oh
01:21 ingy rking: for pairing we'll need 242 wide screen!
01:22 ingy we can port each file in a 3 way vertical split
01:22 ingy perl/python/ruby
01:23 ingy maybe you can even sharpen the vim acmeist porting saws
01:24 ingy I've been trying to write my perl and ruby code closer to the way I imagine it will eventually be generated
01:24 rking Yeah
01:24 ingy but that doesn't have to be boring, per se
01:25 ingy I can still say: foo = 2 if bar
01:25 ingy cdent is going to be awesome because you can generate ruby 100 different ways
01:26 ingy not just stylistically either
01:26 ingy you can load it up with runtime checks
01:26 ingy for testing runs
01:26 ingy then lean it out for production
01:26 rking Yeah that's huge.
01:27 ingy we should pairup soon
01:27 ingy I'll save the python port for us
01:27 ingy at least for a while
01:28 rking K, yep
01:28 ingy I have to have a bunch of stuff ready for taiwan which is one month away now
01:29 ingy I wonder if anyone has ever ported from 2 sources to a new 1 before?
01:29 rking Wait, 1 month?
01:29 rking Then you'll be back in time for my NW trip?
01:29 ingy after python, I think we can make a list of most of the needed idioms
01:30 ingy yeah 17th to 24th is taiwan
01:30 rking Also, I was wondering what your next step is once you have a good TestML base
01:30 rking Is it pegex-* from there?
01:30 ingy I have a very solid testml base that I will try to not touch for 6 months
01:31 ingy only port to python and node
01:31 ingy I am a day or so away from making pegex-pm and pegex-rb be in full sync
01:32 ingy then I will release JSONY-{pm,rb} based on pegex and testml
01:32 ingy and maybe a TOML-{pm,rb}
01:33 ingy just for fun
01:33 ingy the big mistake of TOML is the same as yaml and json
01:33 ingy every api is different algorithm and api
01:34 rking I haven't seen all of TOML, but I was annoyed at the attitude.
01:34 rking "Hurr YAML spec big and YAML insecure" is the gist of what I read.
01:34 ingy in a year or so, inventing a toml and publishing in 20 languages, passing the same tests that spec the language will take a couple hours
01:35 rking That's great.
01:35 rking The timeline sounds reasonable.
01:35 ingy well TOML is a human to machine conf lang
01:35 rking I wonder if it's possible to takeover the binary-protocols market
01:35 ingy sure
01:35 rking There are all these things like protobuf and spree
01:36 ingy but there are other things I could do next
01:37 rking D'oh
01:37 ingy I need to port some of the testml libraries to .cd.yaml files
01:37 rking I meant Thrift
01:38 ingy I just heard about thrift an hour ago from a coworker
01:38 ingy what is it?
01:39 rking BSON is another like it, they're a family of binary serializations
01:39 rking I'm sure their scope is different, like I bet some are just an objectmodel<->binary map, while others probably are whole libs and servers
01:39 rking But anyway it's a definite market, and it's a language, even though it's not human-readable
01:41 ingy I can't believe I'm only this far
01:42 ingy I started Ruby in decemeber
01:42 ingy because t0m asked for a jsony.rb
01:42 ingy but having a solid testml feels good
01:43 ingy I cleaned up the compilation and runtime a lot too
01:43 ingy I'll give you an example
01:43 rking If there's one thing I'm learning, it's that software is expensive to write.
01:44 rking It's dismal, actually. The simplicity of the basic task vs the time it takes to do it.
01:47 ingy rking: I tried to comment on your comment https://github.com/ingydotnet/testml-pm/commit/eeba13a9f51c01b1cb215ef003fd13d89339413a#commitcomment-2840013
01:49 ingy also that XXX was not a comment
01:49 rking Yeah, I was relating it to a different thing.
01:49 ingy it was an intentional fail but with yaml
01:50 rking It would be an easy constraint to say, "I'll never commit the 3 chars 'XXX' without giving git a no-hooks flag."
01:50 ingy seems silly
01:51 rking =P
01:51 ingy rking: you live in TX. Put on your cowboy hat and boots, man.
01:52 ingy anyway, I take no stock in my acmeist ruby code. it is just training wheels until it is all generated
01:53 ingy just imagine the day when you can work on ruby code generators instead of ruby code!
02:10 GitHub41 joined #testml
02:10 GitHub41 [testml-pm] ingydotnet pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/KdkOkQ
02:10 GitHub41 testml-pm/master a233804 Ingy döt Net: update with testml-tml repo
02:10 GitHub41 left #testml

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