Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #webwork, 2012-04-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:06 mgage_ aubreyja: hi
00:07 mgage_ aubreyja_:hit
13:26 aubreyja Hi -
13:26 mgage hi
13:27 aubreyja How was Stanford?
13:27 mgage it was very nice -- I'm glad I went, even though it was a bit hectic.
13:28 mgage both the conference at Stanford and the memorial at MSRI were very nice.
13:29 aubreyja great - I  saw your message to Monica - it will be interesting to see where this goes
13:29 mgage I got to meet a fair number of people from the old days.  I was a little disappointed that the younger student's of Osserman didn't come, I was looking forward to meeting them -- I knew the students older than myself.
13:30 aubreyja I also saw John's note about proofs in ww - is this the sort of thing Devlin is asking for?
13:31 mgage Yes.  I had a good conversation with her, she is still interested.  I didn't see Keith Devlin to ask about plans that Travis mentioned
13:32 mgage I'm still catching up so I haven't looked closely at John's problem ---- I have thought about using a flash applet like barbaras so that you could rearrange statements to construct a proof. (imagine statements on a magnetic strips which you put in the right order)
13:33 aubreyja I could imagine symbolic logic type proofs being possible…
13:33 mgage I'll be back out in the bay area in July -- although officially that is a vacation
13:33 mgage that has actually been done by the CS people (and Oliver ) -- I don't know if they are still doing it.
13:35 mgage Probably a richer version of this is Monk's software -- let me se if I can remember the name
13:36 aubreyja There was this old book "Language Truth and Logic" back in the 90's that did something like this with (can you believe it - mac only) software
13:36 mgage I think that was Barwise stuff wasn't it?
13:37 aubreyja yep
13:37 mgage I remember that -- I think I have one of the versions somewhere.
13:38 aubreyja there are some perl logic modules
13:38 aubreyja actually, I see it's published by the CSLI at stanford - isn't that where Devlin works?
13:39 mgage probably although he may be up a level from that.
13:40 aubreyja ha! I see from his web page stanford.edu/~kdevlin that he's got a blog at the Huffington Post
13:41 mgage I think Ken Monk's software (he's at University of Scranton) is what I'm thinking of.  we were thinking of including his work in the open source exhibit but I'm blanking on the name of his application -- and can't find it at the moment  -- Davide would know
13:42 aubreyja oh, I remember (vaguely) what' you're referring too...
13:42 aubreyja I thought I had installed it somewhere...
13:44 aubreyja lurch.sourceforge.net
13:44 aubreyja brb
13:45 mgage that's it -- he also worked on aim.   funny that lurch isn't mentioned on his website
13:46 mgage aim is alice in mathematics
13:47 mgage I've got to prepare classes -- I'm hoping to send out updates about code camp to everyone tonight.  Did you hear back from djun kim?  -- if so you can send me an email with details.
13:50 aubreyja back - no I haven't heard back
13:51 mgage as soon as I get caught up on some course work I'll try to move things along.  This is the last full week of classes
13:54 aubreyja we've got 1 more after this week, then finals
13:55 mgage that's close to us, we ahve half a week and end next wednesday.
13:55 mgage brb
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20:55 mgage aubreyja:hi
20:55 aubreyja Hi -back
20:57 mgage me too -- finally done with classes so I can catch up on a few other things.  I'll try to get some notes out to the participants (and potential participants) for code camp 1 this evening.  In particular Rajiv and Karen Clark have asked for details
20:57 mgage have you and John Travis and Aaron (and/or anyone else) started thinking about invitees for code camp 2?
20:58 mgage I can make some suggestions -- but I'll let you guys handle the detail
20:58 mgage s
20:58 aubreyja Not beyond what's already on the planning document - I'll see if I can catch him tomorrow or Friday
20:59 mgage ok -- I'd like the planning to go somewhat in tandem so that people can sort out where they would be most useful -- and which projects will be tackled where.
20:59 mgage Also on my agenda:  did you read Michael's forward about the Emporium at Virginia Tech?
20:59 aubreyja that sounds good - should I email John and we'll see if we can arrange a time to talk about this tomorrow?
21:00 aubreyja yeah, I was going to mention that our Stat 1200 course (1000+ per semester) is doing exactly that with webwork
21:00 aubreyja this semester was the pilot and the instructor's first time using webwork and it's gone well
21:01 aubreyja very well actually,
21:01 mgage sure -- I may not be available -- I have a thesis exam (I'm outside member) in electrical engineering tomorrow from 2 to 4
21:01 aubreyja I agree with you that the instructor UI needs the most focus though
21:02 aubreyja I'll try to arrange a time tomorrow and if you can make it great and if not we'll make what progress we can on our own
21:02 mgage ok -- that's interesting -- I'm not sure what Michael's point was exactly (vis a vie UI interface) -- the Emporium is a much larger concept than just homework.  It's also been going on for at least 10 years -- not sure why the new article at this point.  In fact last time I talked to Frank Quinn who helped start it he was discouraged because Virginia Tech was starting to reduce support for it.
21:03 mgage ok -- that's fine about arranging time even if I can't come.
21:03 mgage I just wonder how much of this Michael knows.
21:04 aubreyja That's true - I think it's getting publicity now because people are casting around for ways to save money that don't obviously hurt students (and may help in some circumstances)
21:04 mgage Frank wrote many of the problems for the homework aspect of this -- and at one time we considered how to import them into webwork -- never quite got the manpower to get this accomplished.
21:05 mgage I see.
21:06 mgage The other thing I noticed recently is that WebAssign is claiming a patent pending on its ability to answer all kinds of questions.  I wonder if we (e.g. MAA and Michael) should be worried about that.  Do you know anything about the breadth of this patent?
21:07 mgage we almost certainly have prior art.  We started about the same time as WebAssign but we were significantly head in terms of checking abilities at the very beginning.   -- however prior art may not mean much.
21:07 aubreyja No, that's interesting (and slightly disturbing).  I'll have a look at this; maybe it is something we need to be concerned about. That seems awfully broead
21:07 aubreyja broad
21:08 mgage possibly so, and it's something that we need an organization to help out with
21:09 aubreyja Do you have a copy of the patent application? I'm searching google patents
21:09 mgage something like the GNU organizations might help, but I think MAA should be involved in some capacity if it's necessary.
21:09 mgage No I don't have a copy of the patents, I was just looking at one of their recent ads. (in Math Focus)
21:10 mgage it might be all advertising.
21:11 mgage http://digital.ipcprintservices.com/publication/?i=107069   page 38
21:16 mgage it could be there are lots of these -- e.g. http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090019099#b   but I still think it might be something that Michael might want to ask his people to look into
21:17 aubreyja yeah, it could be that they are in the process of preparing a patent…who knows- might as well mention it to Michael though
21:18 mgage ok -- so I'll get to that as well this evening, and answer at least a few code camp 1 questions.  -- I can also reply to the question in rt from Koc about checking proofs (short answer No but......)
21:20 mgage this is interesting: http://physics.wku.edu/~bonham/Publications/PERC_PADs_Feedback_final.pdf
21:33 mgage headed home -- ttyl
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