Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #webwork, 2012-06-02

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Time Nick Message
00:11 JohnTravis I'm heading out with my wife but have recopied everything to my laptop using GIT (and Sourcetree actually).  Be back much later.
01:07 mgage__ I like sourcetree.   ok -- I think there is a good chance this will work.
04:21 JohnTravis joined #webwork
14:10 JohnTravis joined #webwork
14:34 mgage_ joined #webwork
14:34 mgage_ hi
14:35 JohnTravis good timing
14:35 JohnTravis sudo cpan XMLRPC::Lite
14:35 JohnTravis gives me optional packages
14:35 mgage_ just accept the defaults in each case I think
14:36 JohnTravis ok
14:36 mgage_ that's what I did for my build -- the result will work -- when there is more time one might be able to refine this process
14:37 mgage_ have run the  check_modules.pl  list in webwork --- is it clear what the double stars mean now?
14:38 JohnTravis yep.  I'm running through them now.  Done 8 thus far
14:38 JohnTravis 9
14:38 mgage_ ok -- were there double stars on the applications (i.e. not CPAN modules but things like latex or pdflatex)
14:40 JohnTravis What I have left.. DBD::mysql, Email::Address, GD, Iterator, Mail::Sender, PadWalker, PHP::Serialization, Pod
14:40 mgage_ ok --- you have installed   libapreq2 already?
14:41 JohnTravis tried.  Could not find.
14:41 mgage_ ok -- that's an important one and it will install Apache2::Request and Apache2::Cookies    --- are those two already installed --- they might be with lion
14:42 JohnTravis I was able to install the Apache2 modules but they weren't there originally.  Here comes the libpreq2 info:
14:42 JohnTravis sudo cpan libapreq2
14:42 JohnTravis Going to read '/Users/travis/.cpan/Metadata'
14:42 JohnTravis Database was generated on Fri, 01 Jun 2012 15:15:04 GMT
14:42 JohnTravis Warning: Cannot install libapreq2, don't know what it is.
14:42 JohnTravis Try the command
14:42 JohnTravis i /libapreq2/
14:42 JohnTravis to find objects with matching identifiers.
14:43 mgage_ some CPAN mirrors didn't have this information -- we might have to add mirrors to search -- we'll deal with that when the time comes.
14:44 mgage_ the other one that is likely to fail is GD since you need to install libgd first
14:44 mgage_ go ahead and try installing GD anyway along with the others and then we'll look at the ones that didn't install easily
14:45 JohnTravis yep.  Just tried it.
14:45 JohnTravis Could not find gdlib-config in the search path. Please install libgd 2.0.28 or higher.
14:46 mgage_ right -- we'll install that with homebrew   -- type
14:46 mgage_ which brew
14:46 mgage_ if there is a response then brew is already installed
14:47 JohnTravis no reply
14:47 mgage_ not installed then
14:47 JohnTravis nope
14:47 mgage_ (or at least not in your path -- but probably not installed)
14:48 mgage_ is latex and pdflatex installed
14:48 JohnTravis no.
14:49 mgage_ ok -- you'll need those in any case for typing papers :-)
14:49 JohnTravis Ha!  Presumes that I can read.
14:49 mgage_ here is the address for installing homebrew:  http://mxcl.github.com/homebrew/
14:51 JohnTravis installed homebrew.  Should I run brew doctor?
14:51 mgage_ for typing tex I use texshop http://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/  and it has instructions for installing texlive which is the underlying tex engine.  -- there may be newer packages for tex but this one does the job and should be pretty easy to install -- they give good directions
14:51 mgage_ not sure -- I didn't but it probably can't hurt -- jason knows homebrew better than I do -- he may join in soon -- I sent him an email
14:52 mgage_ i would guess that brew doctor checks to see what else has been installed
14:53 JohnTravis just checking.  They suggest doing it so I am now.
14:53 JohnTravis brew doctor throws an error at Macports.  Says this can cause trouble but that I don't have to uninstal
14:55 JohnTravis also give Error for XCode path.
14:55 mgage_ yes -- and this can be a source of errors because something gets confused about where to look for an app.  -- just be aware of it.  macports puts things in /usr/local/bin
14:56 mgage_ have you installed XCode? (the developers package from apple)?
14:56 mgage_ tjat
14:56 JohnTravis yep...error
14:56 JohnTravis For Macports, the following tools exist in both paths:
14:57 JohnTravis dbilogstrip
14:57 JohnTravis dbiprof
14:57 JohnTravis dbiproxy
14:57 mgage_ did you install the developer package on your machine?  it's a good idea -- gives you all kinds of unix tools that most mac users don't need
14:57 JohnTravis I think so.
14:57 JohnTravis opening XCode
14:58 mgage_ https://developer.apple.com/xcode/  -- Xcode might be worth upgrading if you installed it from a disk instead of over the internet it might be out of date a bit
14:58 aubreyja joined #webwork
14:58 mgage_ Xcode 4.3.2 seems to be the current version
14:58 mgage_ hi jason
14:58 aubreyja joined #webwork
14:58 aubreyja Hi how's it going?
14:59 mgage_ so far ok -- need to get the tex package onto JT's machine -- I was suggesting texshop (and texlive) as being pretty easy -- is there a better choice?
14:59 JohnTravis I downloaded XCode.  4.3.2.
14:59 JohnTravis Hi Jason
15:00 aubreyja Hi - John
15:00 aubreyja no, texlive is really the best mac tex distribution I think
15:00 mgage_ ok -- I'd install XCode and the tex installation and make sure tex works before doing too much more with webwork
15:00 mgage_ in that case install texshop since it has good instructions for getting texlive set up automatically
15:01 JohnTravis All I have left in webwork is DBD::mysql and GD
15:01 aubreyja you'll also need either homebrew or macports….
15:01 JohnTravis and the missing libapreq2
15:01 aubreyja I've struggled with that library too
15:01 JohnTravis I have homebrew, macports and XCode
15:02 mgage_ yeah -- I'm puzzled that Apache2::Request is showing up if you didn't install libapreq2 -- did you install that directly while you were going through the list?
15:02 aubreyja actually john, you might get perlbrew to set up a local perl install and get all of the perl modules from there
15:02 JohnTravis and have the Developer package for XCode
15:02 aubreyja Apache2::Request is part of mod_perl
15:02 aubreyja libapreq2 has Apache2::RequestUtil - it's confusing
15:02 aubreyja but we need both
15:03 aubreyja re homebrew vs macports - I've done this with macports, but it's very heavy handed
15:03 aubreyja and you'll end up installing a lot more software than you need
15:04 aubreyja homebrew is more light weight but I haven't been able to get netpbm from there.
15:04 JohnTravis Just discovered so more stuff is showing up missing but as expected...musql, latex, pdflatex, etc.  Will do latex next.
15:04 mgage_ yes -- if you install Apache2::Request directly you don't get all the binaries you need and all the auxiliary CPAN modules so you need to install something like libapreq2   using cpan or perhaps perlbrew does the job -- I haven't used that one
15:04 mgage_ right  -- do that by installing texshop -- it should take care of everything in that category
15:05 aubreyja I'm going to work on my netpbm - if I can get that going then I can get ww up with mac native + homebrew (+ perl brew if you want to use it)
15:05 mgage_ I installed mysql directly from the internet
15:06 mgage_ something like this will probably help:  http://www.djangoapp.com/blog/2011/07/24/installation-of-mysql-server-on-mac-os-x-lion/
15:06 JohnTravis mysql would never install right under my previous profile.  This is one reason why I junked it and started another.
15:07 mgage_ mysql can be tricky because you might already have a mysql setup installed in macports and you need to make sure which one you are addressing and also make sure that only one of them is turned on
15:07 JohnTravis Downloading pdf...
15:07 JohnTravis 1GB
15:07 aubreyja yeah, get mysql from the mysql website (unless using macports..)
15:07 mgage_ for example if you do    which mysql  now and get /opt/local/lib.....  as a reply it means that you have a version of msyql from macports
15:08 JohnTravis I get nothing
15:08 JohnTravis Will do jason's link when pdf done
15:09 mgage_ ok -- that's safe then ---- the tricky part when you have too copies of something like mysql is that subtle differences in your path (which directory is searched first when looking for a command) will affect the result and it might take some time to figure this out
15:09 mgage_ too = two
15:10 JohnTravis dmg is easier to install...right?
15:10 mgage_ yes
15:10 JohnTravis I'm slowly learning the Mac world
15:13 JohnTravis actually 1.7 GB.
15:18 JohnTravis BTW, I'm eating Skittles...but only the lemon and orange ones.
15:25 aubreyja Mike - pnmtops
15:25 aubreyja I've installed netpbm from source but this binary was not built.
15:25 mgage_ hmm
15:25 aubreyja The same happened with the install from homebrew
15:25 aubreyja but not mac ports...
15:26 aubreyja where is that used? I'm wondering if we can chain other netpbm binaries together to get pnm -> ps...
15:26 mgage_ It might not be necessary in any case -- we are mostly using pdf rather than ps -- that might be why it's not included
15:27 mgage_ paul pearson has a plan for implementing tikz which would go through PS but otherwise I don't think we need it.
15:27 mgage_ installing ghostscript might grab that binary
15:29 aubreyja ah, I think I have gs but maybe from texlive
15:29 aubreyja if so I'll bet it didn't install the header files….
15:29 mgage_ I'm only seeing pnmtops in old macports and fink installs and I'm not missing it during run time at the moment.
15:30 mgage_ you can probably bypass it for now if needbe
15:58 aubreyja can you think of a way to remove all files from a dir installed on a particular date? (That is, with an easy shell command?)
16:02 aubreyja JohnTravis- are you installing texlive now?
16:03 mgage_ aubreyja: you can construct one with find ..... but it usually takes  a while to get it right
16:03 JohnTravis latex and sql just finished installing.
16:04 aubreyja can you check if it installed ghostscript?
16:04 aubreyja e.g. do you have a /usr/local/share/ghostscript dir?
16:04 mgage_ you can also do ls -lt   and get a list of files in order, then copy and past the ones that you want -- munge them up in a text editor and create a command you enter on the command line
16:04 JohnTravis Yes on ghostscript
16:05 JohnTravis Several items not found in $PATH
16:06 aubreyja ok, in /usr/local/bin/ do you have a pnmtops file?
16:07 JohnTravis sudo cpan DBD::mysql failed
16:07 mgage_ it will do that until you have mysql installed
16:08 JohnTravis I downloaded and installed mysql-5.5.25-osx10-6
16:09 JohnTravis aubreyja:  No file
16:09 aubreyja John - it won't work to install DBD::mysql from cpan
16:09 aubreyja instead download the source from the cpan website and then untar it and read the install documentation
16:10 aubreyja you'll need to pass some info about your mysql installation to the configure script
16:10 aubreyja (e.g. the root password, etc.)
16:10 JohnTravis Yeah.  I gave it a try anyway.  check_modules indicates that DBD::mysql not found in @INC
16:11 mgage_ ok -- I need to take the dog for a walk before he pops -- he's been bugging me for the last two hours -- I'll be back in an hour
16:12 JohnTravis I tried that once a long time ago.  Egad.
16:15 aubreyja yeah, but it's a "good learning experience"
16:16 JohnTravis GLEE
16:16 aubreyja what doesn't kill you will make you stronger
16:17 JohnTravis I think i'm going to take a break
16:31 mgage__ joined #webwork
16:33 aubreyja well, I had to edit the makefile but I finally got pnmtops to install...
16:37 mgage___ joined #webwork
18:24 aubreyja mgage: Mike - around?
18:25 aubreyja Is Rajiv not coming to Rochester? I thought he had accepted...
18:38 JohnTravis aubreyja:  Can't run mysql.
18:38 JohnTravis mysql -u root
18:38 JohnTravis ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (2)
18:40 mgage_ you need to start the mysql daemon first -- there are instructions with mysql package   -- something like safe_mysql start
18:40 mgage_ that should create the pseudofile   /tmp/mysql.sock
18:40 JohnTravis I was following the script that was there.  Maybe I really can't read. Will try again.
18:41 aubreyja Hi John
18:42 aubreyja yes to what Mike said
18:42 aubreyja did you guys see the Prep report? It's generally very positive and very informative and gives some good advice
18:43 mgage_ i didn't see it -- I don't think -- is it email? or should I look for it somewhere?
18:44 aubreyja I thought I forwarded it to everyone - let me check
18:45 aubreyja yeah, email - I forwarded it about half an hour ago, subject Fwd: 2011 PREP Reports
18:45 aubreyja Also, I want to run something by the two of you.
18:46 mgage_ got it -- just haven't read it yet
18:46 mgage_ ok
18:46 aubreyja I've been thinking about Michael's email, especially re: 'typographical streamlining'
18:46 aubreyja and, while I agree that it could use some freshening up, I don't really think it's the MAA's prerogative to give us a new style/logo/etc by fiat
18:47 JohnTravis I head the email ding but haven't read email yet.
18:47 aubreyja it seems to me that this should be a community discussion/decision
18:48 JohnTravis I did wonder about that.
18:48 aubreyja so, I was going to suggest this to Michael and that he could stack the deck by having his group create a few different new looks that we could include in a public vote
18:48 aubreyja of course, we would also allow others to submit possible logo designs too
18:49 aubreyja brb
18:49 mgage_ that's a reasonable point.  -- your suggestion seems to me like a good idea
18:49 JohnTravis Honestly though whenever anything such as the archaic spelling of WeBWorK comes up...
18:50 JohnTravis Agree.  Who came up with the original web logo?
18:50 mgage_ I have no trouble with changing the spelling but MAA should be respectful of the open source community -- the community can always fork
18:51 aubreyja also, supposing the MAA doesn't like the final choice, they could brand their instance however they would like and add maybe a tagline "Powered by the WeBWorK online homework system"
18:51 JohnTravis Agree.  I guess I have been using the two-caps version for a while because it is just easier to type and read.
18:51 mgage_ Arnie came up with the name (in the very early days -- and I agreed with it -- it echos NExT which I like.  )  I came up with the graphic.
18:52 JohnTravis I was wondering because when topics like this come up it can get a little sensitive.
18:52 mgage_ aubreyja -- yes that is a good option for MAA but there is no reason for us to try a group decision first.
18:53 mgage_ -- also if you copy other people (like JT, me, etc) in on this include Flora as well
18:53 aubreyja wait - no reason for us not to try a group decision?
18:53 aubreyja sure - will do
18:53 mgage_ not to try -- sorry
18:53 JohnTravis Knowing Michael, I think his email is an attempt to prod the discussion.
18:54 mgage_ there is a good chance we'll make the best decision if both the MAA marketing group,  MAA admins and the open source community -- those motivated enough to speak up -- can come to some kind of consensus agreement -- even if it is not universal.
18:54 aubreyja sure - I agree
18:55 aubreyja Right, and I think this could be also a nice community building event too
18:55 mgage_ I wouldn't give complete control over to the marketing group -- they could easily blow it badly.  but I don't think anyone is suggesting that either.
18:56 JohnTravis Perhaps we could arrange to meet with the folks involved at Mathfest
18:56 aubreyja brb again (sorry, son has friends over...)
18:58 mgage_ unless something needs to be decided sooner
18:59 mgage_ hows the build going?
19:00 aubreyja well, I want to get the email sent off before they get too far along in whatever plans they have...
19:01 aubreyja Does it sound reasonable to you guys for me to email this suggestion today to everyone?
19:01 mgage_ I think that is a good idea
19:01 mgage_ this may or may not be that big a deal
19:02 aubreyja Right, it may or may not, but I think it is more likely to be a big deal to some people important to the project if we don't try to be inclusive and democratic about it
19:03 mgage_ agreed
19:47 mgage_ JohnTravis:   did you send me your flight information? I know you sent me days of arrival/departure but not times?
19:47 mgage_ could you send me an email with the info?
20:30 JohnTravis I'm back.  Sorry.  I'll forward the flight info right away.
20:31 mgage_ ok thanks
20:31 JohnTravis I had a carpenter call and say he was on the way over...had to jump into action
20:32 mgage_ ok
20:35 JohnTravis aubreyja:  Agree.  Perhaps the email can link to a Google Doc (or whatever) for collecting ideas.
20:36 JohnTravis Regardless of my views, I would prefer a more democratic method
20:36 mgage_ kk
20:37 JohnTravis Re: install:  Still stuck on getting mysql to work.  I followed the script on the web page but something is messed up.
20:37 mgage_ ok -- hang on a few minutes -- I'll try and help
20:38 JohnTravis Ok.  I read the PREP report
20:38 mgage_ kk
20:54 JohnTravis I agree that the report does seem to be pretty positive.
21:15 JohnTravis hey.  any help with mysql.  When I try to run it I get
21:15 JohnTravis ERROR 2002 (HY000): Can't connect to local MySQL server through socket '/tmp/mysql.sock' (2)
21:46 mgage_ it means the mysql daemon hasn't started -- try starting it from your System Preferences icon on the mac
21:46 mgage_ see if that helps
21:47 mgage_ also this http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/mysqld-safe.html
21:49 JohnTravis There is no mysql-safe
21:49 JohnTravis Where is system prefs?
21:49 mgage_ underscore not hyphen -- its the wheel like icon on your mac in the doc
21:50 JohnTravis I'm in preferences now and looking around
21:50 mgage_ it's also in your Applications folder
21:51 mgage_ if you have installed mysql it's turquoise blue icon under other
21:51 JohnTravis I ran the install from the earlier linked sites and there is no mysql_safe
21:52 mgage_ is there an icon in System Preferences?
21:52 mgage_ if not then the install probably didn't succeed.
21:52 JohnTravis Odd.  Found it finally by going to the bin directory
21:53 JohnTravis permissions all 755
21:53 mgage_ the mysql .dmg had a mysql preference pane in it
21:53 mgage_ that should have been put in your Preference pane localtion
21:54 JohnTravis Not there.  Perhaps I need to reboot?  Is Mac OS that way?
21:55 mgage_ no
21:56 JohnTravis sudo mysqld_safe
21:56 JohnTravis Password:
21:56 JohnTravis 120602 16:56:02 mysqld_safe Logging to '/usr/local/mysql/data/unknownb88d122baa24.err'.
21:56 JohnTravis 120602 16:56:02 mysqld_safe Starting mysqld daemon with databases from /usr/local/mysql/data
21:56 JohnTravis 120602 16:56:04 mysqld_safe mysqld from pid file /usr/local/mysql/data/unknownb88d122baa24.pid ended
21:56 JohnTravis Had to use sudo priviledges
21:57 mgage_ brb
21:57 JohnTravis ok
22:08 JohnTravis brb
22:56 mgage_ back

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