# IRC log for #webwork, 2012-08-28

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:54 Paul_Pearson joined #webwork
02:11 JohnTravis joined #webwork
02:33 mgage hi
02:45 rbeezer joined #webwork
02:45 mgage hi
02:45 mgage rbeezer: hi are things working?
02:46 rbeezer mgage: Hi
02:46 rbeezer I got the one problem to work as I wanted it to
02:46 rbeezer How do you make sure students remember their login credentials??  ;-)
02:46 JohnTravis Sharpie
02:47 rbeezer Vry good, I'll suggest that
02:47 mgage on the forehead? backwards for mirrors
02:47 rbeezer I forgot tht essay answers say "will be graded later" AND say "incorrect"
02:47 JohnTravis Next time, I'm making all logins lower case.  Egad.
02:47 mgage anyway -- we use student ids for initial logins and ask that they change them to something they can remember
02:47 rbeezer just some mild panic, but I warned them it was beta
02:48 mgage aaah -- it's ok to send that to the bug list so that we don't forget that this is a tweak that needs to be addressed
02:48 rbeezer Two emails tonight: do we have an assignment?, why won't my first name work as a login name?
02:49 rbeezer yes, i lowercased them all by hand, and sanitized hyphens
02:49 mgage we also use email addresses (before the @) as our logins
02:49 rbeezer email is good, I thought about that.
02:50 mgage I get the email addresses in the class list and then strip what comes after the @ -- they are automatically lower cased here fortunately.
02:50 rbeezer Its going very smoothly so far, we'll see how grading goes in teh early AM
02:50 JohnTravis Same here.  I grab whatever comes out of Moodle and remove the @ stuff for logins.  Moodle also gives student number in a wierd form with hyphens in the wrong place.  I'm removing those next time too.
02:50 mgage ok -- keep us informated
02:51 mgage if you work with moodle you don't need to have a separate classlist for webwork --- moodle will take care of it for you.
02:51 rbeezer mgage: do you think I will be able to send comments back?  That was absent a few days ago, not sure if that featurew was even implemented
02:51 JohnTravis informated.  I like that word!  :)
02:51 JohnTravis Can't get my moodle admins to set up the link.
02:51 JohnTravis Not the same as the sys admin unfortunately.  Farmed out.
02:51 mgage You can also set up a site to use LDAP from your local school -- but you can't do that if your course is hosted elsewhere
02:52 mgage I'm not sure about the comments back part -- I suspect not yet -- but I've been out of the loop the last two weeks so you would have to check with Geoff.
02:52 rbeezer Thx, that's fine.  It'd be gravy right now.
02:53 mgage JohnTravis: oh right  you told me about that --- to bad.   it makes life much easier for class list setups
02:54 JohnTravis Yep.  It's all do-able but I just have too much other stuff on my plate now to expend that energy.
02:54 mgage I hear you
02:54 JohnTravis BTW, we are running fine now.  As I mentioned in the email, cpan died somehow.
02:55 JohnTravis I even was able to use the old cpan to install some "missing" modules but reinstalling from scratch did the trick.
02:55 mgage yeah -- I saw that -- that problem involved an update to a central perl library module.
02:56 mgage I don't know what would have gone wrong with the cpan update -- we'll probably never know.
02:56 JohnTravis I see.  Now that I think of it, after doing the svn update I lost the Next/Up/Previous buttons and the ability to see past answers.
02:57 mgage you are doing the update from the svn? or from github?
02:58 JohnTravis This is the old installation from svn.  We are in the process of setting up a new CentOS server so I'm only maintaining the SUSE 10.2 server.  Just wanted to get rid of the "default to guest" bug.
02:59 JohnTravis I'm sharing my server with Ravinder Kumar this term for a couple of classes and wanted to avoid issues.
02:59 mgage I'm trying to make the ww2.5.1.1 branch in openwebwork/webwork2-dev the most stable collection of many new features (see 2.5.1 release notes) -- I'll move it into openwebwork/wewbork2 as soon as I have everything in place
03:00 JohnTravis I'm hoping over labor day to start up a WW install on our new server using git.  What is there is a working copy sys admin did using svn and I can't decide whether to do the svn/git conversion or to just start over.
03:00 mgage you may have to check with Arnie about the last version in the svn -- he has been working with that -- I believe everything that is in that version is supposed to work -- at least Arnie was using that to update the MAA servers
03:01 mgage probably easier to just start over on a new machine
03:01 JohnTravis That's what I thought.  Felt pretty confident on doing that one mid-semester...became our first major downtime.
03:01 JohnTravis Yep.
03:01 JohnTravis Thanks for your help, btw.
03:01 mgage np
03:02 JohnTravis Daughter is waiting for me...she's ready to work on some pre-algebra problems!
03:02 JohnTravis Don't know if this will be useful but certainly should be something easy to show the MCTM workshop folks.
03:03 mgage I'll be away from keyboard (afk) for a while -- I'll check back in later.   Oh -- and talk to Robin Cruz about her precalc problems -- I believe she has some really nice ones on number lines but I can't find them at the moment
03:03 rbeezer First day of class, and I'm behind
03:03 rbeezer Thanks guys, for teh help and interest
03:03 JohnTravis Will do.  Figure she is asleep by now.
03:03 mgage np  afk
03:04 JohnTravis Grateful for what you have taught us about community...and for being a nice guy.
03:04 rbeezer Don't know much, but always happy to share...
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03:15 mgage aubreyja: looks like changing the system on hosted2 back to ww2.5.2 solved rob beezers problem -- so things are quiet. most bugs have gone away for now
03:39 rbeezer mgage: spoke too soon, here's details
03:39 rbeezer set "WILA", problem 1
03:39 mgage kk
03:39 rbeezer Edit and "view with seed" looks good
03:40 rbeezer "Try it" gives old stale bogus question
03:40 rbeezer Login as a test student, and I see bogus question
03:40 rbeezer I thought a "save and replace Problem 1" had cleared out teh old problem
03:41 rbeezer Anything else I can add?
03:41 mgage I'll take a look  and see what I find -- you might find a stray homework set in your course (not assigned) is that ok?
03:41 rbeezer Sure!
03:41 rbeezer The bogus question goes back to before any databse.conf initialization was done.
03:42 rbeezer My guess it is stuck somewhere ;-)
03:42 mgage ok -- may take a while but I'll try to track this down
03:43 JohnTravis Random idea.  If you get a "stale" question after doing some editing, try doing a page refresh.  This happens routinely when dealing with sage cell problems.
03:43 rbeezer sure - its not due until Wed AM and they know to just answer the "real" question from teh book
03:44 rbeezer This is stale from several days ago.  I have *deleted* the question, and reinput it and it keeps coming back
03:45 JohnTravis Ok.  I have this problem when doing graphs since the graph image is cached relative to the given seed.  I can change the graph over and over but nothing shows until I delete the image from the cache or try a new seed.  Don't know how the questions are referenced for your example but passing this along just in case.
03:46 rbeezer Thanks - this is an "essay" question, so maybe it is indicative of something else
03:58 mgage rbeezer: when you edit and view with seed you are only creating a temporary version of the file (at the top of the page it reads  .....p.rbeezer.tmp or something like that)   No one else will see this file until you choose the "save" option which creates a "permanent" .pg file
03:58 rbeezer I think I've done that, but will try again
03:58 mgage could this be the problem?  if a student views this problem before you have done a permanent save they will not see your temporary changes in the "view using seed: mode.
04:01 rbeezer that seems to be it
04:01 rbeezer I get the right problem as professor and as test student
04:02 rbeezer Not sure how I did 17 other problems correctly and fubared that one, but now I know
04:02 rbeezer sorry for the noise
04:02 mgage getting the PGproblemEditor to be completely intuitive has been a long struggle which we are still losing . You'll have to get used to it for now.
04:02 rbeezer I thought I was used to it.  ;-)
04:02 mgage no problem.  there is a red headline telling you that you are using a temporary file.
04:03 rbeezer yep, seen that.  Managed to save all the others properly.....
04:04 rbeezer thanks so much for your attention to this one, good to know I have you covering my back!
04:04 mgage it catches all of us some times -- took me a while to see it -- using javaScript we can probably use local storage on the client side so that we don't have to fake the ability to do temporary edits before "saving" the file.
04:04 mgage np -- I'm looking forward to the semester.
04:05 rbeezer OK, I do believe it is scotch-time here!
04:05 mgage I've already started on the wine -- and I'm headed to bed.  talk to you tomorrow. :-)
04:05 rbeezer Good, and G'Night.
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12:35 goehle joined #webwork
13:32 mgage goehle: hi
13:32 goehle hey
13:33 mgage I just sent you an email acknowledging your contribution of MathAchievements   -- let me know if it is what you need.
13:33 mgage also I'll be glad to send a copy of it to your chair or dean if that is helpful.
13:34 goehle that looks great
13:35 goehle thanks
13:35 mgage np.  thank you for the contributions
13:36 goehle a couple questions about hosted
13:36 goehle so the absolute position stuff has made it back into info-wrapper in the css
13:37 goehle this looks kind of bad on my (non widescreen) computer
13:37 goehle is there a reason for it?
13:38 goehle also
13:38 mgage I switched hosted2 back to version 2.5.2 (it had been on 2.5.1.1 ) -- I'll have to make sure the updates to 2.5.1.1 get forward ported to 2.5.2 -- I've been concentrating on stabilizing 2.5.1.1 but I should make those ports to 2.5.2 now before I forget
13:38 goehle do you need help reintegrating the essay answers stuff with whatever version is living on hosted2?
13:39 goehle ok
13:39 goehle I was noticing a lot of reversions
13:39 goehle and was wondering if you had switched versions
13:40 goehle mostly I was looking to troubleshoot Rob's issues
13:40 mgage I can use another pair of eyes -- I think that 2.5.2 has most of the original essay answer stuff properly integrated. I'll spend an hour or so today trying to bring it approximately up to par with 2.5.1.1 tweaks and then you can pound on it
13:40 goehle ok
13:40 goehle I'll run it through its paces this afternoon/evening
13:41 mgage Rob's issues were because I was using 2.5.1.1 on hosted2 for testing -- I'd forgotten that that version didn't have the essayQuestions code in it yet.
13:41 mgage as of late last night things were ok with his course -- we'll see what the morning brings.  :-)
13:48 goehle I'm probably confused then
13:48 goehle I thought his course was on hosted2
13:49 mgage yes -- his course is on hosted2.webwork.rochester.edu  -- had temporarily switched it to version ww2.5.1.1 now it is switched back to ww2.5.2 (it takes less than a minute to switch versions now)
13:50 goehle you are a brave brave man doing this kind of juggling on a machine actively being used by students :)
13:50 mgage well -- it's only being used by Rob's course and he volunteered
13:51 goehle so last night (and right now) the version I was using was 2.5.1.1
13:51 mgage and claims he alerted his students
13:51 goehle ok
13:51 goehle so its 2.5.2
13:51 goehle right now
13:51 goehle (at least thats what hosted says)
13:52 mgage that is the version I would use.  I'm going to add a couple of small features -- make it possible to turn off dragmath icons for example and then release it as 2.5.1.1  I have a page up on the wiki about release 2.5.1 and its update 2.5.1.1      please take a look at it and see if I've missed anything or if something seems inaccurate.
13:53 goehle sure
13:53 goehle could you send me a link
13:53 mgage The wiki page for 2.5.2 hasn't been revised yet -- it has a number of features that are actually in 2.5.1.1 already
13:53 mgage http://webwork.maa.org/wiki/Release_notes_for_WeBWorK_2.5.1#.UDzNZ2hST88
13:54 goehle So I'm poking around a bit and it seems like the essay answer stuff hasnt been integrated into 2.5.2
13:55 mgage if you have time you can help edit the 2.5.2 release page -- mostly removing things that were already added to 2.5.1.1 http://webwork.maa.org/wiki/Release_notes_for_WeBWorK_2.5.2#.UDzNeWhST88
13:55 mgage basically I tried to get everything that was stable into 2.5.1.1
13:55 mgage or even close to stable
13:56 goehle I'll take a look, if the bugtesting goes well then I'll be able to work on the wiki some
13:56 goehle (I should have a mostly free hour)
13:56 mgage what is missing from essayAnswers?  or actually what files should I look for that might be missing in the 2.5.2 version
13:56 goehle Its hard to say without looking at the files
13:56 mgage there is no hurry on the wiki
13:56 goehle but my guess is Problem.pm
13:57 goehle Statistics.pm
13:57 goehle (and the appropriate changes need to be made to Statistics .pm)
13:57 mgage you can see those:  https://github.com/mgage/webwork2-dev
13:58 mgage choose the 2.5.2 branch -- you can also choose the 2.5.3 branch to see if stuff is there
13:59 goehle hmm
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14:00 mgage my plan is to put essayAnswers and related stuff in 2.5.2  and release that soon.  Aaron's white board only requires a few changes from the old Problem.pm which he was working with but it is quite different from the new Problem.pm we have been using for the last year -- so integrating and commiting it has been delicate and is still untested.  I plan to put the white board in release 2.5.3   -- not sure that I have the commits sorted out
14:00 mgage properly yet but that is the plan
14:00 mgage hi alex
14:01 goehle Problem.pm is right at the core of things
14:01 goehle does the server need to be restarted?
14:01 goehle I'm having trouble reconciling the code with what I'm seeing on the web
14:02 alex_b hi all
14:02 goehle for example I should be able to manually get to the problem grader using
14:02 goehle hey
14:02 goehle https://hosted2.webwork.rochester.edu/webwork2/PugetSound_MATH290/instructor/grader/WILA/1/
14:03 mgage do you know what module grader is in?
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14:03 mgage hi jason
14:03 mgage we're debugging essayAnswers
14:04 goehle ProblemGrader.pm I believe
14:04 goehle https://github.com/mgage/webwork2-dev/blob/ww2.5.2/lib/WeBWorK/URLPath.pm#L426
14:05 mgage it might not be in URLPath
14:06 goehle the link above should be from URLPath for 2.5.2
14:06 goehle hence my confusion
14:07 mgage there is only set_grader at the moment
14:07 goehle yeah
14:07 goehle that was a poor choice of names on my part
14:08 goehle instructor_set_grader
14:08 goehle should really be called
14:08 goehle instructor_problem_grader
14:08 goehle but thats the right page
14:08 goehle It should call ProblemGrader
14:08 mgage someday we'll regularize all of these names
14:09 mgage I'll do some checking but version 2.5.2 on hosted2 is supposed to be slaved to the version ww2.5.2 in my github webwork2-dev
14:10 mgage what is the package name in ProblemGrader?
14:10 mgage just to make sure that is correct.  it should be WeBWorK::ContentGenerator::Instructor::ProblemGrader
14:11 goehle Yeah
14:11 goehle thats right
14:11 goehle Its not just this file though
14:11 goehle none of the other changes I made to other WeBWorK files seem to be coming through either
14:13 goehle (at least as far as I can tell)
14:15 mgage ok -- hosted2 version ww2.5.2 was pulling from the master version in mgage/webwork2-dev   -- I'm switching it to  pull from mage/webwork2-dev branch ww2.5.2   we'll see what that does
14:19 mgage ok -- hold your breath -- this will probably break some things
14:22 goehle ok that fixed a bunch of stuff
14:22 goehle do you have logging enabled for instructors on hosted?
14:22 goehle hosted2 rather
14:23 mgage database.conf needed to be updated -- I've done that.
14:23 mgage you mean logging for past answers?
14:23 goehle yeah
14:24 goehle (so that submitting essay questions can be done by professors and the answers will be recorded)
14:24 mgage probably not -- I'll add that for the moment
14:25 goehle I'm still getting a bug on the stats page when I look at a hw set thats not assigned to all users
14:25 goehle should I submit that?
14:26 mgage yes -- go ahead -- although I fixed a divide by zero bug for 2.5.1.1 -- is this the same one?
14:26 goehle probably
14:26 mgage go ahead and submit it -- it will feel good to cross it off.  :-)
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14:29 goehle ok
14:29 goehle so I fixed some bugs in ProblemGrader that had to do with uninitialized varables
14:29 goehle I put the results on my github
14:29 goehle do you want me to issue a pull request for those
14:29 goehle (they are still present in 2.5.2)
14:31 mgage yes -- see if you can issue the pull request to ww2.5.2 branch
14:31 mgage I believe I've enabled instructor logging of past answers.
14:34 goehle am I pulling to openwebwork/webwork2-dev 2.5.2
14:34 goehle or to mgage/webwork2-dev 2.5.2
14:34 mgage to mgage for the moment.
14:34 goehle says I already have a pull request to magage
14:34 mgage kk
14:35 goehle ah
14:35 goehle but that was for master
14:35 goehle I can issue a new pull request for 2.5.2
14:35 mgage your new pull request will get added.
14:35 mgage I'll figure out what to do with master later -- for the moment I'm using 2.5.1.1, 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 to sort out features
14:36 goehle eventually master should probably be the latest stable version
14:36 goehle and most of our work should be in a future version branch
14:36 goehle (except for the occasional bugfix in master)
14:37 mgage maybe -- that is the way we did it in svn -- and I think we should do that for openwebwork/webwork2
14:37 goehle sure
14:37 goehle well for our own branches we can do whatever
14:37 goehle and then just submit pull requests to the correct thing
14:37 goehle but it would be nice to be consistent
14:38 mgage for developers on webwork2-dev however (if we keep it as a separate repo ) when they fork they automatically get the master branch -- so perhaps that should be the tip of the semi-stable development so they can recommit easily and keep up with new additions.
14:38 goehle yeah
14:39 goehle hmm
14:39 goehle so for the openwebwork/webwork2
14:39 goehle we could have master be the last stable
14:39 goehle and then have branches be version numbers
14:39 goehle but for webwork2-dev
14:39 goehle master could be the latest semi-stable version
14:39 mgage that way a developer who keeps up with openwebwork/webwork2-dev  master can assume that they are integrating their feature into a branch that is also getting other new features
14:39 goehle and the branches coudl be features
14:40 mgage yes -- or most features -- if they are only being developed by one or two people might live on private repos until they are ready to be incorporated into a new ww version
14:40 goehle yeah, and then webwork2-dev:master could be something very brave professors could use, to try out the latest and greatest
14:41 goehle sure, but even then they might submit a pull request
14:41 mgage right -- it should at least compile at all times
14:41 goehle and you put their changes into a new branch
14:41 goehle at least until everything gets worked out and you bring it into master
14:41 goehle and then master becaomes 2.5.whatever for webwork2
14:42 mgage that can be done if I do the manipulation on my laptop   -- to use github's automatic pull request though I haven't figured yet how to pull a request into a branch that was specified in the request.
14:44 mgage I would like to make the final move of feature from someones private repo to the openwebwork webwork2-dev repo a public pull request -- that helps keep track of where the changes come from  -- at the moment it's often going through my private repo first but I think we should change that.
14:46 mgage So for example we should get all of the updates needed for ww2.5.2 in terms of essayAnswers working in your account as well as in mgage -- then you'll submit a pull request to openwebwork/webwork2-dev and you patch will get applied to the branch 2.5.2 there.
14:49 goehle Hmm yeah
14:49 goehle oh and there are more issues with essay answer :(
14:50 mgage rob is looking at stuff now -- I told him we were on irc.
14:50 goehle The most problematic of these being that I think the PastAnswers db stuff was turned off/not working last night
14:50 mgage does the statistics page look right to you?  does it have the proper grading links
14:50 goehle it does now
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14:51 goehle but I had to submit an answer as a professor
14:51 goehle and that answer is the only one appearing
14:51 mgage what I suspect is that it was being stored in the old past answer log   -- so some of those answers might be cached there instead of the new past answer table.
14:51 mgage hi rob
14:51 rbeezer morning
14:51 goehle if the past answers db was out of comission last night then the grader won't be able to see the past answers from the log
14:51 goehle hi rob
14:52 goehle oh btw
14:52 goehle if your student use tex code in there answers
14:52 goehle i.e. $$x_2 + x_3$$
14:52 rbeezer thanks for looking at this so quickly, guys
14:52 goehle it should get formatted correctly
14:52 goehle I don't know if it would be easy for them to use the tex code though
14:52 goehle so you might not worry about it
14:52 mgage ok -- but hopefully I can rescue those answers for rob to look at  for this time around.  let me grab your changes first geoff and get them up on hosted2
14:52 goehle the bigger problem is the missing answers
14:52 rbeezer I have not told them abouyt Tex yet (do that today), but I suspect one used it for her whole (prose) answer
14:52 goehle nice
14:53 rbeezer missing answers won't be a crisis, class motto is "don't panic"
14:53 goehle Its certainly less than ideal though
14:53 mgage going to get new changes for hosted2 -- back in a minute
14:53 goehle now, webwork has saved the latest answer for each student
14:53 rbeezer thx
14:53 goehle (it does that using a separate thing)
14:53 goehle so that worst comes to worst
14:53 goehle each student just has to go into their homework
14:53 goehle and hit submit for each problem
14:54 rbeezer (I go to diffferent class in 30 minutes, then back for two hours)
14:54 goehle and that should make everything work
14:54 rbeezer sounds good
14:54 goehle but maybe mike can work some magic with the db
14:55 rbeezer tht's my assumption, he's the magician, no?
14:57 mgage I think I can do that.  Geoff -- both of the commits that you have submitted to ww2.5.2 are ones that I can't merge without conflicts.
14:57 goehle right
14:57 goehle thats why you put them off before
14:57 goehle its not super urgent
14:57 goehle Rob, you will just have to make sure that *all* of the students are assigned to a homework set
14:57 goehle otherwise the grader wont work
14:58 goehle (right now they should all be fine)
14:58 rbeezer OK, that's been my practice so far (iirc)
14:58 goehle Mike, once I get some spare time (later this week probably) I'll pull webwork2-dev:2.5.2 into my dev machine and make the merge work
14:59 mgage I can fix them by downloading them to by laptop, handling the conflicts and then uploading them to the repo, but I'm trying to establish a different pattern (so that the release manager isn't over burdened) .  Geoff could you pull from my repo  branch ww2.5.2  and reconcile that with the changes on your machine.  Then resubmit the pull request -- I think it will then merge cleanly
14:59 mgage kk
15:00 goehle are you going to be able to populate the past answer db using the log file?
15:00 mgage if it's urgent for rob I can do the reconciliation but I want to start establishing the new pattern
15:00 goehle no its not
15:00 rbeezer I can wait - just let me know what I need to do and when
15:01 goehle I'll get it done this week and that should be fine
15:01 mgage kk
15:01 rbeezer I like to review reading questions before the relevant lecture, but I know this is an experiment
15:01 goehle the essay stuff *should* still work
15:01 mgage I think we'll have a work around for today
15:02 rbeezer a workaround sounds good
15:02 goehle Mike, I dont suppose there is a sneaky way to submit answers for studetns as a professor?
15:04 mgage you can enable that in the localCourseOverrides -- I've really tried to discourage this feature since if you ever want to analyze the data later about students answers you don't want false signals entered from profs -- e.g. some prof checking to see if the computer is working properly for a given student and their answer
15:04 mgage as a rule you don't want this recorded.
15:04 goehle I agree
15:04 goehle as a worka round though
15:04 goehle if that was enabled
15:05 goehle then Rob could go through all of his students and submit their latest answer
15:05 goehle and that would populate the database
15:05 mgage rbeezer: I'm sending you the past answer file -- actually I think you can get it by File Manager if you want
15:05 goehle then you could turn the feature off
15:05 mgage yes -- we can do that -- let's see if it's needed.
15:05 aubreyja Couldn't Rob also do this from his course.conf?
15:06 goehle That would be muhc easier
15:07 rbeezer What would the path to "past answer" file be in File Manager?
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15:08 goehle go up from templates
15:08 mgage go up one level then down into logs
15:08 goehle and then go into logs
15:08 rbeezer got it
15:09 mgage we can also turn this submit feature on just for Robs course using course.conf -- since he is the only
15:09 mgage one on this machine it doesn't matter much.  I guess the question is would you like to be able to submit answers for a while while acting as a student? during this course or would you rather be protected from that?
15:10 mgage the formatting isn't great but you'll be able to read your student's answers from last night
15:11 rbeezer I can see their answers just fine in the log
15:11 rbeezer Are you suggesting I cut/paste them in for them (after some configuration change is made?)
15:12 aubreyja Why does he need to submit the answer for all of his students?
15:12 mgage basically you were using the old version of essayAnswers last night -- now I think you are switched to the new version of essayAnswers minus a couple of bug fixes.
15:12 aubreyja Shouldn't their last answer be filled in, so the students could just resubmit them?
15:13 goehle exactly
15:13 goehle so the three options are
15:13 mgage yes -- if you want a permanent record of these answers that will work --- actually I'll just give profs permissions to have their answers recorded when they act as students and we'll see what happens
15:13 rbeezer If students can resubmit, that would be less error-prone, I think
15:14 goehle 1) Rob grades his students using the grader, but reading the answers from the log file
15:14 goehle 2) Have students resubmit all of their answers
15:14 goehle 3) Have Rob go through and do that for them
15:14 rbeezer I like (2)!
15:14 rbeezer If you think that will work cleanly
15:16 rbeezer I can see grading tool now, and Geoff's bogus answers from this AM
15:16 aubreyja I don't see why not - but I'm late to the party here, so I'm not exactly sure what went wrong in the first place
15:16 aubreyja Rob, if you act as a student and view a problem, do you see his or her last answer filled in?
15:17 mgage I think I've made (3) possible as well now -- it's a feature that needs testing anyway so let's see if we can resubmit student's answers for them.
15:18 rbeezer Logged in as a test student, I see my (wrong) answers from yesterday's class sessions when I visit the problem
15:18 mgage aubreyja: Not all of the code was up to date on hosted2 last night so Rob's class was essentially using the old essayAnswer routine which stored the results in past_answers log instead of in the new database table.
15:19 rbeezer mgage - how do I resubmit for a student?
15:19 aubreyja ok - I'll bet it will work then to have the students submit their own last answers.
15:19 mgage I think just hit submit answer -- let me check
15:20 aubreyja Rob - just act as a student and click 'submit answers' - usually that would have the affect of just schecking the answer, but here now it should record a score and record that as the last answer
15:21 rbeezer I forget where to go to act as a student
15:21 aubreyja just find their userid in the class list editor and then click on it
15:21 aubreyja then you're acting as the student for the purposes of viewing the homework
15:21 rbeezer got it
15:21 aubreyja and grades
15:22 mgage I think this is not going to work because the past answers are being drawn now from the table and not from the log.
15:22 aubreyja ah - good point
15:22 mgage the problems to be answered are all in WILA right?
15:22 aubreyja Rob - do you see any past answers when you act as a student?
15:23 rbeezer SSLE was due today, WILA tomorrow
15:23 mgage ok let me check that
15:23 rbeezer out-of-order since I gave them an "extension" on the first day's reading  ;-)
15:24 mgage ok I am seeing answers in SSLE
15:24 rbeezer aubreyja: I see a past answer for SSLE-1 when acting as a student
15:24 aubreyja ok, that's good news
15:24 aubreyja try submitting it
15:25 aubreyja and it's filled in in the text box the student would have entered it in?
15:25 rbeezer I did (maybe I can't submit 'cuz set is closed?)
15:25 rbeezer HAVE to go to class, back in an hour, sorry
15:26 aubreyja Ah yeah, that would trump everything - reopen it when you get a chance to test it
15:26 aubreyja ttyl
15:26 mgage aubreyja: I added you to https://hosted2.webwork.rochester.edu/webwork2/PugetSound_MATH290 so you can help
15:27 mgage usual login/password
15:27 aubreyja kk
15:27 aubreyja in
15:28 aubreyja Yeah, I see past answer for 'bennett'
15:28 aubreyja We should wait for Rob before we muck around in his course :)
15:29 mgage kk
15:29 mgage having Rob use this immediately and having Geoff around sure speeds up the debugging process
15:29 aubreyja I definitely like the essay answer interface though - Geoff done good
15:29 mgage yep
15:29 goehle sorry back
15:29 aubreyja that's for sure
15:29 goehle was talking to somein in rl
15:29 goehle I kind of want to get the past answers db populated
15:30 goehle so rob can use the interface
15:30 mgage let
15:30 mgage let's enter answers for us and see what happens
15:30 aubreyja we'll have to reopen the set right?
15:30 goehle yeah
15:31 mgage yes -- I'll bump it up a day
15:31 aubreyja Geoff is this right - I'm looking at 'bennett' and I see a past answer. It must be getting that from answer_log, but in theory if it is submitted then it will get inserted into the db and then pulled from there and not from the answer_log?
15:31 goehle um
15:31 goehle as I recall the most recent answer
15:31 goehle is actually stored in UserProblem
15:32 mgage I think that is right
15:32 aubreyja ah, right - so what's the problem - only "Show Past Answers" won't work with existing data in the answer_log
15:32 goehle well I changed show past answers to use the past answers db
15:33 goehle so thats the reason show past answers is empty
15:33 aubreyja Right, so for bennett I see no past answers
15:33 goehle even though the log file has stuf in it
15:33 goehle right
15:33 aubreyja but if bennet were to submit this answer it would get into the past answers db and then show up in past anaswers
15:33 goehle yup
15:33 goehle and it would be availalbe to ProblemGrader
15:34 goehle So I'm acting as a student on SSLE
15:34 goehle but I dont see a submit button
15:34 aubreyja it's not open
15:34 mgage I just changed the due date to past 8/29
15:34 aubreyja ok
15:34 mgage hang on let me try one other thing
15:34 goehle kk
15:35 aubreyja still no submit answers button
15:35 djun joined #webwork
15:35 aubreyja It might be a good exercise to write a migration script from answers_log to the answer log db, not just for Rob, but for people upgrading old courses...
15:36 djun morning, all
15:36 aubreyja I doubt putting existing old answers into the answer db is crucial for rob here
15:36 aubreyja hi djun
15:36 goehle morning
15:36 goehle it woudl be a good problem
15:36 goehle I honestly don't remember if I store more in the db than is in the log file or not
15:45 mgage hmmm -- the flags record_answers_when_acting_as_student  doesn't seem to be working as advertised -- I can't see a submit answer button when acting as a student.
15:45 goehle me neither
15:45 Paul_Pearson joined #webwork
15:46 mgage aah -- it works if I change it in defaults.conf but not in localOverrides.   -- we'll have to figure that out  -- mean time you can now submit
15:46 aubreyja Ooh, ooh, ooh
15:46 aubreyja I just remembered that Gavin has a script that does nearly what we want
15:47 goehle oh?
15:47 aubreyja Remember, he had a db crash, then recovered everything by writing a script that goes through the answer_log and does all of the necessary stuff
15:47 goehle (Submiting for students works btw
15:47 aubreyja great -
15:47 goehle I've got Rebecca Eberts answer to problem 1
15:47 goehle showing up in the problem grader
15:48 aubreyja Gavin's script seems like a fantastic start for a migration script here
15:49 aubreyja oh, that's nice - the button even says 'submit answers for xyz'
15:49 goehle actually, I think we could change the due date back
15:49 goehle reading the comments I think submit for overrides otherstuff
15:49 mgage kk
15:49 goehle you want to take the A students
15:49 mgage I'll do that
15:49 goehle Jason
15:49 goehle and I'll do the B students
15:50 aubreyja sounds good I'll start at the bottom of the A students, Mike can start at the top
15:50 mgage got it
15:50 aubreyja This is SSLE?
15:50 goehle yeah
15:50 aubreyja It seems closed for wills
15:51 aubreyja and whitcomb...
15:51 aubreyja does it need to be open?
15:51 aubreyja ah, no it doesn't
15:54 aubreyja We should record for Rob the users who did not enter any answers so he doesn't think we missed someone
15:54 goehle acutally
15:55 goehle for me students who submitted blank answers are coming up blank in the grader
15:55 goehle we'll know if we missed someone
15:55 goehle because they will have "There aren no answers for this student"
15:56 mgage I'm going slow because I'm also chatting with david -- how far are you upto aubreyja
15:56 aubreyja ok, so I'm just submitting the empty answers for those students - is that what you're doing?
15:56 goehle yeah
15:56 aubreyja meacham
15:56 goehle that way I can tell if I got everyone
15:56 goehle I finished B
15:56 goehle The answer grader is filling out nicely
15:57 goehle its a little overwhelming in a wall of text kind of way
15:57 goehle but I dont think it woudl be better if we had a separate page for each student
15:58 aubreyja I am *really* liking this feature though. It would be great for smaller classes and more proof oriented classes.  We should try to get tinymce working in it too (or something similar)
15:58 goehle although using some javascript to build each students question and keeping that on top as you scroll down, with the numbers changing as you move from student to student, woudl be slick
15:58 aubreyja tru dat
15:58 goehle I had tinymce working
15:58 goehle I didn't do muhc with it
15:58 goehle and I dont know where it went
15:58 goehle :P
15:59 aubreyja Mike - how far are you?
16:00 mgage probably in 2.5.3 -- or perhaps your repo -- I left for a week immediately after WeBWorK::Winona -- and I've spent most of the time since I got back stabilizing 2.5.1.1 -- franz
16:00 goehle yeah
16:00 aubreyja I'm on delavis
16:00 goehle I think I need to make sure any formatting done in tinymce gets translated to tex correctly so that webwork does the right stuff
16:00 mgage ok -- then we should have everyone now -- let's check the grader
16:00 goehle and I need to do some more sanitization of submitted answers
16:00 goehle grader looks good to me
16:01 goehle the only "no answers" I see are for us
16:01 aubreyja i forgot how to find the grader
16:01 goehle go to statistics
16:01 goehle click on SSLE
16:01 mgage so this is doing a pretty good job of stabilizing 2.5.2 -- let's make sure tinymce gets added to this
16:01 mgage 2.5.3 is for the white board stuff -- that will take some work --
16:01 aubreyja sweet
16:02 goehle looks good
16:02 mgage also we need to get a summary of what features were accomplished at WeBWorK::Winona written down in some public place (blog post would be good)
16:02 goehle Mike, you can turn of the submit answers for student feature
16:02 goehle if you want
16:02 aubreyja Do we want the file path there?
16:02 goehle file path?
16:02 mgage ok -- let me try one more experiment quickly  I don't know why it wasn't working as an override.
16:03 aubreyja And sorting would be nice…:) but this is great Geoff - good job
16:03 goehle Lets see if it stays standing first :)
16:03 aubreyja for tex, we don't want to run these answers through pg, so maybe we can just always have this page render the mathematics via mathjax
16:04 aubreyja that way we can just let tinymce do what it does
16:04 aubreyja (which is use mathjax I'm pretty sure)
16:05 aubreyja See, look at Franz,E's answer - mathjax would render this properly
16:05 goehle which problem?
16:05 aubreyja local/setSSLE/one.pg, section B
16:06 mgage ok -- I understand now -- overrides are working -- I just had a syntax mixup -- used => instead of  =
16:06 goehle nice
16:06 goehle So aubreyja
16:07 goehle refresh the grader page
16:07 goehle and check out my answer
16:07 aubreyja also, to argue for not including the file path above the student answer, it is already printed at the top of the page, and anyway the grader works problem by problem
16:07 goehle there is some correct formatting there
16:07 aubreyja awesome! - mathjax?
16:07 aubreyja no…it's an image
16:07 goehle change your display option
16:07 goehle (mathjax doesn't seem to work for me)
16:07 aubreyja boo - [math]
16:08 aubreyja maybe it's not installed on hosted2?
16:08 goehle could be
16:08 goehle thats why I like the image fallback
16:08 mgage probably true -- I can go check
16:08 goehle I still dont see the filename you are talking about
16:08 aubreyja ah, so you just marked this as tex in your answer $$…$$
16:08 goehle yeah
16:08 aubreyja cool
16:08 goehle I want to make sure whatever we do with tinymce
16:08 aubreyja for me each student's answer has a line indicating the problem file path above it
16:09 mgage me also
16:09 aubreyja right - I wasn't actually aware that you had already made it render the math
16:09 goehle Yeah
16:09 goehle that can definitely be removed
16:10 aubreyja but I think for example that E Franz's latex wouldn't work, right?
16:10 mgage jason what are the magic git terms for submodules?
16:10 aubreyja git submodule init
16:10 aubreyja git submodule update
16:10 aubreyja from webwork2/
16:12 mgage codemirror doesn't have a submodule mapping in .gitmodules  -- we have to find that
16:13 mgage probably for the other branches also
16:13 goehle as an aside
16:13 aubreyja sure - I can do that
16:13 mgage djun:  if you get a chance let us know what needs to be added to get the codemirror working
16:13 goehle do the italicized students stand out enough
16:13 goehle those are the ones that need grading
16:13 aubreyja then those two commands would get all of the code we have as submodules at once
16:13 goehle I could make their names a different color
16:14 mgage I think that would be a good change -- you could give them a class name while you are at it and use css -- we should be headed that way for interface modules in any case.
16:14 djun The codemirror stuff is included in a theme.
16:14 goehle I'll do that
16:15 aubreyja yes, color would help, or maybe bold. Depending on color always runs the risk of being an accessibility problem, so I'd continue to include some other type of emphasis
16:15 goehle bold might be better
16:15 djun I'd like themes to be versioned separately from the main codebase
16:15 mgage Is there a reason we should include codemirror in each theme as opposed to just placing the code in htdocs/js/lib/vendor
16:16 goehle one more bugfix then I have to go :P
16:16 mgage kk
16:16 goehle (or at least write soem lectures)
16:16 goehle in the .css file
16:16 djun In general, I'd like to make it possbile for optional code to be managed separately. Otherwise we wind up with the kitchen sink problem
16:16 goehle the max-width :40% for #infopanel
16:16 goehle needs to be removed
16:17 mgage I'll take care of that.
16:17 goehle right now the infopanel is 40% of 40% so its very skinny
16:17 mgage I need to forward the patch form 2.5.1.1
16:17 aubreyja Djun that's sort of what we're doing with MathJax as a git submodule is that what you have in mind?
16:18 djun No
16:18 mgage djun: do you view the code mirror  as something that will be part of some themes but not others?
16:18 djun No, I mean that there should be core code and contributed code
16:18 djun core code should be very small
16:18 mgage also remind me the difference between codemirror and dragmath  I might be confusing them.
16:19 djun Mike: yes
16:19 djun codemirror does syntax highlighting - it's a code editor; dragmath is wysiwyg
16:19 aubreyja djun - I like that idea.  Maybe a contrib/ directory?
16:20 mgage that is part of the philosophy the js/lib/vendor and js/lib/webwork directories  -- that's not backwardly enforced yet
16:20 djun This is a big architectural change
16:20 mgage david started doing that when adding js libraries for the new interfaces
16:21 djun I keep harping about this but in my opinion this needs to be planned out for a new major version
16:22 djun with at least a year's worth of lead time for release
16:22 djun because it's going to break a lot of things
16:22 aubreyja We don't actually have much contributed non-core code though - most of it is pretty core - how do you see the current code base being divided up in principle?
16:25 aubreyja In any case, I think this is something for wide discussion, such as webwork-devel. It's something that if we decide to go that way will impact nearly everyone's projects
16:26 djun Jason - something like a contrib directory… more of core should be pluggable, and "optional".  For example, there's multiple authentication methods.  Now multiple editors. Etc.
16:26 mgage I plan to add a flag in overrides that allows you to enable or disable dragmath for the answer blanks ( a request from Paul Pearon) -- I'll do that first.  At the moment codemirror is not working on hosted2 ww2.5.2 -- probalby because the code hasn't been properly assigned to git.
16:28 mgage So as far as the editors go -- I plan to see these reduced down to one each.  The reason for the current situation is that I want testing and comparison testing on the existing editors and feedback as to which features to keep
16:28 djun Mike - I will look at codemirror and make sure it works on ww2.5.2
16:29 mgage I think it may have something to do with the way .gitmodule is set up -- the code doesn't get set up properly on hosted2
16:29 djun For multiple editors - choice is good.  What works for one situation may not be the best in another.
16:29 aubreyja But, to play devil's advocate what is the advantage of making this distinction for the Authen submodules, for example?  They aren't hurting anything by being where they are, and in general we don't want to make administrators move perl modules around to install things. Right now they just have to set the proper config settings (in theory)
16:30 mgage eventually maybe -- but in the cases we have currently I think we can narrow it down -- these are experiments
16:30 aubreyja mike - that file is just a text file - I think you can just edit it to see how the mathjax submodule works
16:31 rbeezer back (reading transcript)
16:31 mgage I would like to make it possible to drop a new module in without mucking around in URLPath.pm -- it's very delicate -- moving to a restful architecture  would be a good thing, but that is a major architectural change and would take some time.
16:31 djun Mike - for example, some courses would benefit from wysiwyg.  For others, this would be a poor choice for input.  I think it needs to be something that an instructor can choose per course (and probably per input context - this is where it becomes architectural)
16:32 mgage rbeezer: I think your grades should look ok now -- tell us what you think
16:32 djun Jason - i think the main issue is maintainability
16:32 aubreyja brb
16:33 rbeezer mgage: thanks, yes, I see you've been hard at work, I'll look at it from here
16:33 mgage OK.  But at the moment I think code mirror is only being used in the PGProblemEditor correct?  Dragmath is being used in the answer input.
16:34 mgage rbeezer: you don't want to know what we did to get those answers populated -- :-)
16:34 djun Codemirror is used both for student answers and for editing problems
16:34 rbeezer first look is good - have student for office hours, more in a bit
16:36 mgage djun: ok -- so I'll wait until code mirror is working and sort some of that stuff out.   I added codemirror code to the other themes in ww2.5.1.1 but I'm not sure that I got that working properly.  Let's start by making sure that the themes in 2.5.1.1 are working the way you envisioned -- then we can forward port this to 2.5.2 and beyond.
16:37 mgage we can remove codemirror from math2 and math3 if that seems desirable.  I removed all themes except math2, math3, and ubc.  I'll like those three to be working properly.
16:37 djun Alex also contributed the mathdox (T.U.E) editor. So there are three options for student answers, all quite different in flavor and intent.
16:38 mgage I have mixed feelings about whether the theme should be completely self contained -- for example math2 and math3 are nearly identical and we are not using the cascading effect at all.
16:39 djun For math2 vs. math3, Drupal has the notion of a "sub theme", which basically subclasses from a master theme.
16:39 mgage djun:  I'm going to need some help sorting these contributions out -- I wasn't directly involved during the code camp    -- we also need to make sure that all of these contributions from WeBWorK::Winona are summarized on a blog post -- I have caught many of them but probably not all.
16:39 mgage we could implement something like that
16:40 djun K, sounds good
16:40 mgage I don't think it is there yet however.
16:41 mgage I believe 2.5.1.1 has all the drag math, code mirror and theme stuff -- I'm not sure about T.U.E -- what files should I look for ?
16:41 djun We have some of the same issues across the board with themes, code, database - aspects that are critical to a particular feature but cut across the code.
16:41 djun I think that the T.U.E. editor is called mathdox
16:42 mgage it's a javaScript plugin?
16:42 djun Alex was demoing this on the last day at Winona as I was running out the door to catch my shuttle :)
16:42 djun http://mathdox.org/formulaeditor/
16:42 mgage he was on earlier -- I'll catch up with him and find out where I should look for it.
16:44 mgage then I also need to find out how you and he had envisioned choosing which editor appears for a given input box. Paul Pearson has already asked for a flag to turn dragmath off.   were you envisioning managing this with CSS classes somehow?
16:44 mgage so dragmath.js is at the top level of htdocs/js
16:47 aubreyja ok, back, was chatting with Rajiv ssl issue on new test server; should be resolved now once the dns record propagates
16:47 aubreyja he's going to call it test courses.webwork.maa.org...
16:48 aubreyja 'testcourses'
16:48 djun Here's how I envision this working ultimately.  Each editor would be packaged as a module. Modules would be dropped into an appropriate directory on the server and be discovered by WW.  Instructors would be able to enable installed modules as required.  Each module would provide a configuration screen.  In the case of student answer widgets, for example, the instructor would be able to determine what inputs the widget should apply to.  Perh
16:48 djun the ultimate choice could be given to the student.
16:48 djun Naturally this is down the road a ways :)
16:50 mgage ok -- I think I have that -- this suggests that there would be one module (input method) per course  at least at first -- not different input methods for each answer blank
16:51 djun There could be different methods per answer blank too, potentially.
16:51 mgage the discoverability aspect is definitely something I want and it will get easier to provide as we move to .js front ends
16:52 djun The generated html needs to have appropriate classes attached. So each such module needs a hook to provide these as the HTML is generated
16:52 mgage different methods for each answer blank will require a good deal more work
16:52 djun Dynamic callbacks
16:53 aubreyja Yeah, I agree this is how it should work for things like editors, possibly other content modules; not so sure about things like the Authen subsystem, or to be more precise - my initial opinion is that we have some interest in treating Authen submodules for popular authentication schemes as core code, although it would be nice to have an easier capability  for drop-in authen submodules, and a path for such things from contrib to core...
16:53 mgage it seems to me that this last requirement will become pretty automatic for front ends that are similar to classlisteditor3 and librarybrowser3
16:54 Paul_Pearson joined #webwork
16:54 djun I think it would be nice to see, eventually, a nicer UI for authoring problems. This would hide messy (and error prone) details and provide the possibility of choices for things like widgets and checkers.
16:55 djun Jason, I agree that such modules would still be core.  But I think the packaging/implementation should still be as modules...
16:55 Paul_Pearson Hi Djun.  Hasn't their been discussion about creating a nice web front end for writing problems in PGML recently?  Is this the sort of thing you had in mind?
16:56 djun Paul - yes.
16:57 rbeezer mgage: Looking good here, you are always welcome to muck around in my course.  I appreciate the help.  I'm going to actually grade them right now.
16:57 rbeezer thanks, too, to goehle and aubreyja
16:58 aubreyja Hi Rob - glad it's working - keep us updated to any bugs or feature requests. Having you using it live and Geoff actively working on it simultaneously = rapid development!
16:58 goehle np, let us know if anything explodes
16:58 mgage So I'm thinking of adding these kinds of editors -- perhaps at WeBWorK::Fitchburg -- in the current kludgy way which involves adjusting URLPath.  I'd like to do it then because I'm hoping to get the participation of the WPI students who wrote some of these modules.  Eventually I'd like a drop in capability -- but that seems a big change for this.
16:58 mgage be careful with that beezer fellow -- he doesn't get his homework done
16:59 aubreyja Yeah, I saw that too. tsk, tsk...
17:00 djun Speaking of getting homework done, I should go and prep for a work meeting. Mundane things like getting some homework sets put together for first week of classes… :)
17:00 aubreyja ttyl
17:00 mgage djun: what I would like to do quickly is to make the language modules discoverable -- I think I can do that in exactly the same way we made themes discoverable.
17:00 mgage djun: ttyl
17:00 djun mike, yes, I think that's very doable
17:01 djun Back in  a couple of hours
17:02 mgage -- the irc is finally getting critical mass -- if someone comes in with a newbie question they are likely to get overwhelmed :-)
17:03 djun perhaps a separate room?
17:04 aubreyja Yeah, good problem to have though
17:05 aubreyja new blackboard building block was just committed - maybe it works now, I'm meeting with them on Thrusday
17:09 mgage I was kidding -- I just meant they would get too much help
17:11 mgage great -- if you find it can stand up to initial pounding we'll put it in ww2.5.2 -- even if it is still beta it won't hurt other sites where it is not being used.
17:11 mgage aubreyja: that way we'll get it distributed quickly and tested at least in a few locations.
17:13 aubreyja sure - it's entirely separate java code though, analogous to the moodle plugin, but we can at least advertise it as available with 2.5.2
17:13 mgage exactly
17:18 rbeezer mgage, aubreyja:  man, grading sure went fast by mostly hitting the "correct" checkbox!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
17:18 rbeezer oops, goehle, too
17:18 aubreyja Cool!
17:18 mgage alright
17:19 goehle looks like the scores will all recorded correctly
17:19 goehle a good first run
17:19 rbeezer Wnen I "save" the grades for one problem, response is green bar at the bottom: "Problems have been assigned to all current users", so that will need to be more informative?
17:20 goehle ah thats a bug
17:20 goehle It should say
17:20 goehle Grades have been signed for all current users
17:22 rbeezer UI suggestion:  one checkbox for the whole problem, "Mark all responses correct", then I can just *uncheck* the ones that need partial credit (which for me is a minority event)
17:24 rbeezer goehle, et al: very nice, I am going to like this a lot.  I start teaching them LaTeX in an hour - that'll really help too.
17:25 aubreyja btw Rob - I'm reworking the current asksage to use core perl socket functions so to further decrease the impact on the pg security/safe stuff.  We did some tests with the current working version, and easily found ways to get privileged system information (e.g. the /etc/passwd file)
17:27 rbeezer aubreyja: sounds good.  Once I get comfortable with everything else, I'd like try incorporating asksage().  Is it on hosted2 in any form?  (No rush, I'm not ready yet.)
17:27 aubreyja No, not yet, because of the security issues.  But give me a couple of weeks and I should have a workable version
17:28 rbeezer A student of mine wrote a bunch of matrix randomization routines for Sage 14 months ago - like square amtrices with determinant 1, which can be used to obfuscate all kinds of things.
17:28 rbeezer aubreyja: fine, no hurry, I have enough on my plate to keep me busy!  Before eigenvalues, though, huh?  ;-)
17:29 aubreyja hopefully!
17:36 Paul_Pearson Hi Rob.  I wrote some unimodular 2 x 2 matrix stuff and put it in http://svn.webwork.maa.org/npl/trunk/NationalProblemLibrary/macros/FortLewis/MatrixUnimodular.pl
17:38 Paul_Pearson Many of the systems of differential equations questions I wrote use it, e.g. http://svn.webwork.maa.org/npl/trunk/NationalProblemLibrary/macros/FortLewis/MatrixUnimodular.pl
17:39 Paul_Pearson Oops, I meant http://svn.webwork.maa.org/npl/trunk/NationalProblemLibrary/FortLewis/DiffEq/3-Linear-systems/05-2D-systems-vector-fields/Systems-Classification-01.pg
17:42 rbeezer Paul_Pearson: thanks.  I'll have a look.  How about a 10x10?  (just kidding!)
17:43 mgage aubreyja: JT was looking for some cool number line graphs -- I thought I remembered that Robin had written some problems with such graphs -- can you think where they might be?  I didn't find them in OPL under CollegeOfIdaho -- at least not right away.
17:43 rbeezer Paul_Pearson: looks good, I'll learn something if I study that code
17:44 Paul_Pearson The macros were specifically designed to support problems that students could do by hand (i.e., so that the size of the numbers and the size of the matrices made hand computation possible).
17:44 Paul_Pearson If you're integrating SAGE into homework, though, you're not limited by the number of dimensions or the size of the numbers.
18:03 Paul_Pearson Here's a tutorial problem I wrote that has some number line graphs in it.
18:03 Paul_Pearson # DESCRIPTION
18:03 Paul_Pearson # Luther College Algebra Proficiency Exam
18:03 Paul_Pearson # ENDDESCRIPTION
18:03 Paul_Pearson ## KEYWORDS('algebra')
18:03 Paul_Pearson ## DBsubject('Luther College')
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18:06 Paul_Pearson IRC froze for me.  I hope I didn't kill it for everyone else...if I did, I apologize.
18:07 Paul_Pearson DOCUMENT();
18:07 Paul_Pearson loadMacros(
18:07 Paul_Pearson "PGstandard.pl",
18:07 Paul_Pearson "MathObjects.pl",
18:07 Paul_Pearson "AnswerFormatHelp.pl",
18:07 Paul_Pearson "PGgraphmacros.pl",
18:07 Paul_Pearson );
18:07 Paul_Pearson TEXT(beginproblem());
18:07 Paul_Pearson $refreshCachedImages = 1; 18:07 Paul_Pearson Context("Numeric")->variables->are(x=>"Real"); 18:07 Paul_Pearson #Context()->flags->set(useBaseTenLog=>1); 18:07 Paul_Pearson #Context()->variables->set(x=>{limits=>[-1,1]}); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$BEGIN_DISPLAYMATH = MODES(TeX=>'$', HTML=>'<br /><br />\[' ); 18:07 Paul_Pearson END_DISPLAYMATH = MODES(TeX=>'$', HTML=>'\]<br /><br />' );
18:07 Paul_Pearson foreach my $i (0..2) { 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[$i] = init_graph(-6,-1,6,1, size=>[408,68]); 18:07 Paul_Pearson # x-axis 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[$i] -> moveTo(-6,0); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[$i] -> lineTo(6,0,'black','1'); 18:07 Paul_Pearson # x-axis ticks entered as y-value, color, list of x-values 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[$i] -> h_ticks(0,"black",-5,-4,-3,-2,-1,0,1,2,3,4,5); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[0] -> stamps( closed_circle(-4,0,'blue') );
18:07 Paul_Pearson $gr[0] -> stamps( closed_circle(4,0,'blue') ); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[1] -> moveTo(-4,0);
18:07 Paul_Pearson $gr[1] -> lineTo(4,0,'blue',3); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[1] -> stamps( open_circle(-4,0,'blue') );
18:07 Paul_Pearson $gr[1] -> stamps( open_circle(4,0,'blue') ); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[2] -> moveTo(-4,0);
18:07 Paul_Pearson $gr[2] -> arrowTo(-6,0,'blue',3); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[2] -> moveTo(4,0);
18:07 Paul_Pearson $gr[2] -> arrowTo(6,0,'blue',3); 18:07 Paul_Pearson$gr[2] -> stamps( open_circle(-4,0,'blue') );
18:07 Paul_Pearson $gr[2] -> stamps( open_circle(4,0,'blue') ); 18:08 Paul_Pearson ###################################### 18:08 Paul_Pearson # Main text 18:08 Paul_Pearson Context()->texStrings; 18:08 Paul_Pearson BEGIN_TEXT 18:08 Paul_Pearson The upcoming examples address how to solve inequalities 18:08 Paul_Pearson involving the absolute value function. The absolute value 18:08 Paul_Pearson of a real number $$x$$ is 18:08 Paul_Pearson${BEGIN_DISPLAYMATH}
18:08 Paul_Pearson |x|
18:08 Paul_Pearson =
18:08 Paul_Pearson \left\lbrace
18:08 Paul_Pearson \begin{array}{rr}
18:08 Paul_Pearson For example, when $$|x|=4,$$ the distance between $$x$$
18:08 Paul_Pearson and $$0$$ on the real line is $$4.$$ There are exactly two
18:08 Paul_Pearson such points $$-4,4.$$
18:08 Paul_Pearson $BR 18:08 Paul_Pearson$BR
18:08 Paul_Pearson $BCENTER 18:08 Paul_Pearson \{ image(insertGraph($gr[0]), width=>408, height=>68, tex_size=>700); \}
18:08 Paul_Pearson $ECENTER 18:08 Paul_Pearson$BR
18:08 Paul_Pearson When $$|x|<4,$$ the distance between $$x$$ and $$0$$ is
18:08 Paul_Pearson smaller than $$4.$$ So $$x$$ must be between $$-4$$ and
18:08 Paul_Pearson $$4$$ as represented by the line segment below. So
18:08 Paul_Pearson To summarize
18:08 Paul_Pearson ${BEGIN_DISPLAYMATH} 18:08 Paul_Pearson \begin{array}{lll} 18:08 Paul_Pearson |x|=4 & \text{means} & x= 4 \text{ or } -4 \\ 18:08 Paul_Pearson |x|<4 & \text{means} & x<4 \text{ and } x>-4 \text{ also notated as } -4<x<4 \text{ or as the interval } (-4,4)\\ 18:08 Paul_Pearson |x|>4 & \text{means} & x>4 \text{ or } x< -4 \text{ also notated as the union } (-\infty,-4)\cup (4,\infty) 18:08 Paul_Pearson \end{array} 18:08 Paul_Pearson${END_DISPLAYMATH}
18:08 Paul_Pearson END_TEXT
18:08 Paul_Pearson Context()->normalStrings;
18:08 Paul_Pearson ####################################
18:08 Paul_Pearson #  Answer evaluation
18:08 Paul_Pearson $showPartialCorrectAnswers = 1; 18:08 Paul_Pearson #ANS($answer->cmp() );
18:08 Paul_Pearson ####################################
18:08 Paul_Pearson #  Solution
18:08 Paul_Pearson #Context()->texStrings;
18:08 Paul_Pearson #BEGIN_SOLUTION
18:09 mgage nope -- but irc doesn't like it when you paste multiline text -- better to use http://pastebin.com/ and send link (or github's gist    -- as you'll see multiline text looks ugly :-)  -- it's called flooding
18:10 mgage some how I remember a geogebra app that simply made a very nice and colorful number line -- I thought it was from Robin but maybe someone else
18:11 Paul_Pearson My code only uses PGgraphmacros.pl, so it's fast :)
18:12 mgage that's probably better -- is this up on your github somewhere? we can send it to JT
18:22 mgage Paul_Pearson: do you thing the DragMath flag should appear on the "general" section of the course cofiguration page or on the "PG-problem display/answer" section?
18:22 Paul_Pearson This was never made publicly available because it was part of some work I did for placement exams for the Luther College math department.  I'll send it directly to JT via email.  Again, sorry for flooding the IRC!
18:24 mgage not to worry -- we've all done it at least once  -- JT will appreciate it -- he had much of this done, but yours adds some color and so forth so I think he'll like to see how to do that.
18:24 Paul_Pearson I think DragMath is part of the problem display, but either location makes sense to me (and probably to everyone else).
18:24 mgage ok --it's in a problem display at the moment so I'll leave it there.
18:24 mgage let me test it a bit and I'll put it in 2.5.1.1 and on test
19:26 aubreyja mgage: Andras Balogh just posted about cross site scripting concerns from his IT dept, and I replied with a report on the process with my it department
19:27 mgage ok -- I wouldn't be surprised if we had regressed in this regard.
19:29 mgage good reply
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20:09 dbrianwalton I just posted a follow-up to our WeBWorK server stalling (as discussed last week) on the MAA forum.
20:09 dbrianwalton It turns out it was the SQL database being backed up.
20:11 mgage thanks for a very complete report.  Also nice sleuthing!!!! :-)
20:11 mgage By early morning I hope you mean 6am or something like that -- 3am is prime homework activity time at most schools
20:12 dbrianwalton It is closer to 4 am.  I'll be checking the logs to see if issues arise with the shifted time.
20:12 mgage that's probably good enough although I think i would make it 5am myself.
20:13 aubreyja ah, great to hear Brian - thanks for the follow up
20:13 dbrianwalton Thanks for the suggestion.  In the past, I haven't noticed much activity after 2 am here.  I think most instructors make assignments due late at night rather than early morning.
20:13 dbrianwalton (here anyway)
20:14 mgage hmm   -- I wonder if we should make the timing.log record the entire response time for everyone.  At one time the thing we cared about was the rendering time but that might not be true any more.  What do you think?
20:15 dbrianwalton That is actually what I thought it was recording until I actually dug into the code.
20:15 mgage I started making homework due at 6am to avoid complaints like "I almost had my homework done when webwork timed out" sent at 3am :-)
20:16 mgage I'm afraid I no longer remember the exact reason for that -- I suspect we were testing rendering speed under mod_perl when we switched from CGI to mod_perl  -- Arnie might remember.
20:16 mgage what do you think Jason?  should be grab brian's changes?
20:17 dbrianwalton The other global change I might suggest is to delete the lines that lead to passwords appearing in plain text in the log file.
20:18 mgage ok -- that makes sense to me as well.
20:18 dbrianwalton One of these was in dispatch (showing raw parameters).
20:19 mgage do you have a github.com account?
20:19 dbrianwalton The other was in get_credentials in Authen.pm
20:20 dbrianwalton No I am not yet on github
20:20 dbrianwalton What is that?
20:21 mgage this is the svn replacement that we'll be using to update webwork.  it works pretty much the same as svn for those just downloading new versions but it makes collecting and combining various modifications (features, bug fixes etc ) much much easier.
20:22 mgage (Although still not trivial -- I'm in the midst of the trying to collate all of the changes made at the two code camps this spring. )
20:22 mgage here is some info -- not yet complete
20:23 dbrianwalton Thx.  Found the website and signed up.
20:24 mgage http://webwork.maa.org/wiki/Github#.UD0o2mhST88
20:26 mgage what you can do is to fork   the openwebwork/pg-dev and openwebwork/webwork2-dev repositories to your own github.com -- this is done on the web
20:27 mgage next you download your own github repos to your laptop.  you'll fairly recent development code (I've got some changes that I'm getting ready to commit).  You can then make your modifications to those two files.
20:27 aubreyja sorry back - catching up
20:28 aubreyja yeah, those sound like good suggestions to me
20:30 mgage this is not the quickest way to make the changes but it will help you get used to working with git --- something that we are all still working on -- we're trying to create a clear procedure for making and submitting changes so that we can lots of programmers participating without chaos insuing.
20:33 dbrianwalton I understand.  Nothing like collaborating without any structure :-)
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20:58 mgage aubreyja:  what changes have to be made to add tinymce to answer boxes ?  I'm adding tinymce.css --  do changes have to made in pg for the definition of answer boxes?
20:59 aubreyja Just add the js in the header at the most basic level
20:59 aubreyja it finds text areas automatically and inserts itself
20:59 aubreyja it can be customized to be more discerning though
21:00 mgage ok -- just a sec
21:00 aubreyja if you download the bundle, the install instructions are good and they provide a lot of example configurations, as I remember
21:02 mgage ok I have found a tinymce.css file but that is the only one I see at the moment.  I'm going to upload what I have at the moment to mgage/webwork2-dev branch 2.5.1.1
21:03 aubreyja Did you get it here: http://www.tinymce.com/download/download.php
21:04 mgage I didn't get tinymce at all -- any files I have came in from repos that I've pulled.
21:05 mgage I'll get things stable with 2.5.1.1 at this stage and then if needed I'll grab the tinymce .js code as well.
21:05 aubreyja sounds good - I'm on my way out  - be back on later, ttyl
21:06 mgage I'm going to upload to mgage/webwork2-dev  branch 2.5.1.1   -- then I'm going to make sure that  2.5.2 has all of the changes in 2.5.1.1 and I'll put that on hosted2 ..   ttyl
21:10 goehle mgage
21:10 goehle I actually have the code for tinymce in the essaymacros.pl file
21:11 goehle so once you add the tinymce scripts to the server it should start working for the essay stuff automatically
21:11 goehle You can also look at https://github.com/mgage/pg-dev/blob/master/macros/PGessaymacros.pl
21:11 goehle to see how its used
21:11 mgage ok -- thanks
21:13 goehle basically you just have to add the HEADER_TEXT stuff
21:14 goehle then any textarea will automatically be turned into a tinymce editor
21:14 mgage cool -- or we could put it in the system.template perhaps
21:15 goehle thats a nice global solution
21:15 goehle then any answer_box would be a tinymce
21:15 mgage yes
21:15 goehle does answer_rule use textara
21:15 goehle textarea
21:15 goehle or is that a different tag
21:15 mgage no but answer_box does
21:16 goehle right
21:16 mgage answer_rule uses <input...
21:16 goehle good
21:16 goehle I wanted to make sure answer rule wouldn't be affected (since those are too small to make good tinymce fields)
21:16 goehle system.template is pretty elegent, actually
21:17 goehle is that something that can be controled with config files
21:17 goehle (in case people want to turn stuff on and off?)
21:18 mgage to some extent -- it's part of a theme and instructors can choose the theme
21:18 goehle sure
21:18 goehle was just about to say that it looks like a theme thing
21:18 goehle then some themes would really have functional chagnes
21:18 goehle you could have an "assisted input" theme
21:18 goehle thats got all of the input stuff turned on
21:18 goehle and hopefully one where it is turned off!
21:18 mgage also the themes are now discoverable so an admin with command line access can add a new theme just by dropping the folder into the themes folder
21:19 goehle ah that is nice
21:19 goehle Did I see you guys talking about making some of the perl modules discoverable
21:19 mgage yes -- this is part of what djun and I were discussing earlier if you saw that thread.
21:20 goehle Its a nice idea.  It would make it a lot easier to integrate new features
21:20 goehle but its a bit scary too, if webwork is going to some folder and running every perl file it finds there
21:20 mgage for now we have themes discoverable and I think we can make .po files discoverable.  more than that will have to await changes in URLPath.pm
21:20 goehle I guess URLPath would be an issue
21:20 goehle you can add new .pms
21:21 goehle but how do you get the pages that use those
21:21 goehle you could have some sort of dynamic thing
21:21 goehle where the webaddress is also specifiying the perl package
21:21 goehle seems like a project though
21:21 djun i have in mind that each module would register, and define a namespace
21:21 goehle that would be better
21:21 mgage at the moment you have to modify URLPath --
21:21 goehle right, so if I make problem grader
21:21 djun each page load would call a function which calls a list of dynamically generated callbacks
21:21 goehle part of problem grader is a preamble which defines the url stuff
21:22 goehle good stuff.  I just wanted to mention that tinymce stuff
21:22 goehle ttyl
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21:24 mgage -- when we get to this stuff -- which I think is still several revisions off -- let's also plan to rethink the names of all of the module files -- I'd prefer something that was closer to the name used by the user and appearing in the url -- e.g. HomeworksetEditor and ProblemSets.pm (I think) -- it gets confusing if the names are different.
21:24 mgage it will be a pain to trouble shoot that change but once it's done we'll feel better.
21:29 djun Agreed - there's a bunch of thinking that needs to be done for the re-architecting. But I think it will make things more maintainable.
21:30 djun I think the dispatching can be made much more dynamic as well, so that the file name becomes irrelevant
21:32 mgage probably so -- at the moment everything is aliased through URLPath so the file name is already irrelevant in some sense -- it's just hard for someone new to the code (or hasn't looked at it for a while) to remember which module has to be edited to change the Classlist editor. (ans: UserList.pm )
21:32 mgage nothing horrible about it but it becomes annoying over time
21:34 djun Mike, I have a much more mundane question for you: we were looking in Rochester at HTML generation, and discovered that we have table closing code with no matching table begin code
21:34 djun I think the HTML is specified in problemPostamble in a conf file.
21:36 mgage I'll look for it  -- Geoff  found one missing div group in the system template -- which type of page is this occurring on ?   I think the problemPostabmle stuff is all for tex output
21:37 djun Can you tell me why the preamble and postamble are generated by different mechanisms? E.g., it looks like beginproblem() while the post amble is generated by ENDDOCUMENT()
21:37 djun Seems to be in PG.pl
21:38 djun It looks like beginproblem() is not called when a set header is generated
21:39 djun This is on problem pages.  The template I'm using is well-formed.
21:41 mgage ok -- seems to me that is a legacy from something in the original CGI PG code from webwork1 -- think I know what you are talking about but I'll have to look at it to suggest anything intelligent.
21:41 mgage I want to get the ww2.5.1.1 and ww2.5.2 branches straightened out first while I still have their structures in mind.
21:42 mgage I'm nearly there
21:45 djun no worries
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22:04 mgage afk
23:28 mgage rbeezer: there have been changes to hosted2 files again so let me know if something looks funny
23:29 rbeezer I've been in there tidying up, and am writing problems now, and will grade again in the AM, so I'll keep you posted.  Thanks for the heads up.
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23:55 rbeezer Should an answer checker on a matrix math object work on hosted2?
23:55 mgage yes
23:56 rbeezer What I entered previews as a matrix, but messages say "Your answer isn't a matrix, (it looks like a list of lists)"
23:57 rbeezer I use: $constant = Matrix([[$b1], [$b2], [$b3]]);
23:57 mgage were you using square brackets for the matrix?
23:57 rbeezer Then   ANS( \$constant->cmp() );
23:57 mgage and the answer you entered?
23:57 mgage into preview?
23:58 rbeezer three integers went into three small boxes (which were wrapped like a matrix, by the checker, I guess)
23:58 mgage [ [b1]. [b2], [b3] ] should work I think for the answer
23:59 mgage If you leave the problem up I can take a look in about 10 minutes