Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #webwork, 2013-03-12

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
03:53 rbeezer joined #webwork
12:44 goehle_ joined #webwork
14:21 rbeezer joined #webwork
15:48 mgage_ joined #webwork
15:48 mgage_ aubreyja: morning
16:24 aubreyja hi mgage - back
16:24 mgage_ hi -- got in late last night.  Djun had passport troubles again but hopefully he is on his way to Seattle this morning
16:25 mgage_ He got a lot done last night -- look at openwebwork.org
16:37 mgage_ items on MAA site -- arie's course is sending email to webwork@maa.org --
16:38 mgage_ Do you have command line access to the new  hosting computers?  I'm not sure I do, and in someways I think it would be a good idea if I did not.  It's better if the hosting computers are just giving access to maa staff.
16:51 aubreyja sorry - back now
16:52 mgage_ I've been busy too :-) -- too many emails
16:52 aubreyja yes, I have access - I'm sure they set up accounts for you when they created the machines - or I can create a user for you if you need it
16:53 mgage_ we need java put up on test courses to see if that works --- is that fairly easy for you to do?  I would have to learn
16:53 mgage_ I'll try to see if I can get in -- I was ignoring the process when Rajiv set up the new machines since Arnie was handling a lot of the load.
16:53 aubreyja install java on test courses?  I did that this weekend and it seemed to have no effect
16:54 aubreyja he probably set a dummy password for you initially -might be in your email somewhere
16:54 mgage_ ok -- I didn't know that you had done that already -- back to the drawing board.
16:55 mgage_ it will be -- I'll get to it later.  my most urgent task at MAA is to get java applets served -- I'm feeling bad that Paul pearson (who is using live.jar  extensively in classes) has been inconvenienced for so long.
16:55 mgage_ arie's email message set up is annoying but not urgent -- it just fills up the rt
16:56 aubreyja I can change that -I'm in his course now fixing course.conf
16:56 mgage_ kenneth has been doing a good job of customer service (he's also been using the rt) -- we should tell him so.
16:56 mgage_ kk -- thanks
16:56 aubreyja I see why - the admin user has webwork@maa.org as email address
16:57 mgage_ probably shouldn't have the admin user at all -- that's a hold over from hosted2
16:58 mgage_ by the way I think he can get images appropriately and not use 8080 it's just that the webworkDir has to be set to /wwtmp  in the same way that it was for the 8080 url.
16:58 aubreyja ah, that was my fault :) - I had to bust into his course to see what was going on and the addadmin script uses that
16:58 mgage_ removing the 8080 from the url will simply send images through apache instead of through lighted
16:58 mgage_ lighttpd
16:58 aubreyja he asked me to try commenting out the course.conf customizations so that's what I did
16:59 aubreyja I don't see why those changes were working on courses but not courses1 though
16:59 aubreyja I think the current set up will probably work for him since it's 8080 over https now
16:59 mgage_ when kenneth moved over to courses1 I think he changed the default position of where the temporary files were stored.  Since Arie had a customized version his location was not changed.
17:00 mgage_ on courses the tmp files were stored within the courses hierarchy while on courses1 they are stored in wwtmp
17:00 mgage_ I'm not positive of this but that is my suspicion.
17:00 aubreyja yeah, I thought I tried that - it was /var/wwtmp and now it's /var/www/wwtmp, but that didn't seem to work even after restart
17:00 aubreyja but, let's see if this works and if not I can try that again
17:01 aubreyja btw, can our db/code handle hebrew (or unicode) names?
17:02 aubreyja he has all anglicized (?) names in the course
17:03 mgage_ I believe it can now -- but we should test it to be sure -- perhaps arid would be willing to set up dummy course on test to help it out.    Two years ago for sure we could not handle them -- I had to do command line surgery to get rid of hebrew names that had been entered -- you couldn't delete them from the web.  :-)
17:24 goehle_ hey mgage_
17:25 mgage_ hi geoff
17:25 goehle_ make it back all right?
17:25 goehle_ I issued a bunch of pull requests last night
17:25 goehle_ my pg to pg/master
17:26 goehle_ my ww2.5.1.3 to the release branch
17:26 goehle_ and my math4 to the develop branch
17:26 mgage_ yep -- we got delayed a bit leaving raleigh for laguardia but it turned out the flight to rochester was on the same plane -- so no worries -- they couldn't leave until we got there. :-)   slept late this morning though
17:26 goehle_ I just wanted to check in to make sure those merge cleanly
17:26 mgage_ hope your drive back was ok
17:26 goehle_ there was much less traffic than the drive there
17:26 goehle_ so that was nice
17:27 mgage_ I seem them -- it may take me a few hours to start reviewing pull requests -- I'm catching up on other stuff first
17:27 goehle_ no rush at all
17:27 goehle_ just let me know if they dont pull correctly
17:27 goehle_ and I'll try to clean them up
17:29 mgage_ I just look quickly and they all merge cleanly.
17:29 goehle_ great, good to know
17:29 goehle_ I also got that up and running on my actual test server
17:29 goehle_ so it seems liek its ready for bugfinding
17:32 mgage_ cool -- it may take a few days and a couple of tries to sort this out -- we're trying to set up and follow the new protocols and may take a while to get over the startup phase. :-)
17:32 mgage_ take a look at openwebwork.org if you haven't already -- djun got some nice work done on Monday.
17:32 goehle_ sure no problem
17:32 goehle_ let me know if there are other issues
17:32 goehle_ was that email for me?
17:33 mgage_ will do -- and thanks much -- this was a really productive code camp
17:33 goehle_ yeah, I feel like we got a lot done
17:33 goehle_ I have a couple of other ideas
17:34 goehle_ I need to make essay answers work with the backtick notation
17:34 goehle_ I think that will help students format their math without having to use latex
17:34 goehle_ (but I need to sort out the context stuff)
17:34 mgage_ no -- that is whytheplatypus's commit from the release branch 2.7 to master -- that gets set up immediately and then finally closed when 2.7 is merged into master
17:34 goehle_ and I want to move the achievement list over to tabber
17:34 mgage_ oooo -- that would be cool
17:35 mgage_ is there a twitter backbone replacement for gabber?
17:35 mgage_ tabber?
17:35 goehle_ there is actually
17:35 goehle_ thats another thing I could do
17:35 mgage_ that would be a good experiment -- if it looks as good or better we should switch over to that -- cutting down the number of js libraries we use.
17:36 goehle_ http://twitter.github.com/bootstrap/javascript.html#tabs
17:36 goehle_ it does look better
17:36 goehle_ but looks slightlyl more invovled too
17:36 goehle_ (it needs a js aspect to the implementation, not just the div approach that tabber uses)
17:37 goehle_ although its not hugely complicated
17:37 goehle_ woudl this mean that I need to make homeworksetseditor2.5 or something
17:37 goehle_ or should I replace the tabber stuff in the perl code
17:38 goehle_ or should I try and hack a solution together using jquery and classAdd
17:38 mgage_ I don't know enough to have an opinion -- I'm willing to apparently complicate things a little to bring them in line with current "best practice"
17:38 goehle_ sure
17:39 mgage_ I would use query and classAdd I think -- and I don't think we need a homeworksetseditor2.5 -- git is saving the earlier version if we really need it.
17:39 goehle_ ok
17:39 goehle_ so I'll add regular tabber to the achievement editor
17:39 goehle_ and then see if I can find a uniform way to turn tabber into bootstrap using jQuery
17:39 goehle_ *and* I'll try to put a blog together about themes/essay stuff
17:40 mgage_ you should communicate with Peter Staab about what he is doing however -- it's possible that all of this will be superseded fast enough by his homework manager that it is not worth replacing tabbed for now -- since it works fine
17:40 goehle_ but all of that will probaby have to wait a week or two
17:40 goehle_ I am giving a talk at an undergrad converence on the 25th that I really should start writign
17:40 goehle_ ah well
17:40 mgage_ sounds good -- have fun at the undergrad conference
17:40 goehle_ if I can replace tabber uniformly
17:40 goehle_ it will also replace tabber in classlist editor and in the achievements editor
17:42 mgage_ the point is just that if Peter is already using bootstrap for tabs  then we don't have to make immediate changes to tabber.  The point of changing over to jquery/bootstrap is to reduce the number of dependencies in the long run and if we are moving to Peter's homework manager that will be done automatically
17:43 mgage_ again -- if it's easy go ahead and do it -- if it's a real pain wait and see what is happening in Peter's new version.
17:43 goehle_ but what about the other managers that use tabber?
17:43 mgage_ Pter's version won't be ready for prime time for a while yet
17:43 goehle_ actually nm
17:43 goehle_ my method will replace tabber
17:44 goehle_ but wont actually cut down js dependencies
17:44 goehle_ not unless I change the perl code directly
17:44 goehle_ because thats where it includes the tabber script
17:44 mgage_ I would try to move everything over to bootstrap -- we're pretty committed to having it around for many interfaces so we should only use the specialized libraries if they offer some advantage.
17:44 goehle_ ok
17:44 goehle_ and tabber doesnt
17:44 goehle_ it shouldn't be hard to switch over
17:45 mgage_ kk -- and you can leave the perl code alone for now and someone can modify it later so that tabber is not called.
17:45 goehle_ hmm
17:45 goehle_ so if I implement tabs in bootstrap using jQuery
17:46 goehle_ its probably going to use classAdd/classRemove
17:46 goehle_ but that will depend on the tabber classes actually being there
17:46 mgage_ ah -- I see
17:47 goehle_ on the other other other hand
17:47 goehle_ I could just add id's to the perl code
17:47 goehle_ then if the tabber stuff is removed it wont break anything
17:47 mgage_ I'm still willing to do this in easy steps.  The long term goal of not having too many libraries will probably be solved by Peter's interface so I'm not too concerned about that.
17:47 goehle_ ok
17:47 mgage_ if adding id's to the perl code is not hard I would go with that.
17:48 mgage_ I've been adding id's as often as possible in any case.
17:48 mgage_ whenever I modify I piece of code
17:48 goehle_ its not a bad idea because it gives themes more too hook into
17:48 mgage_ exactly
17:48 goehle_ then if some better tabber comes along it could be implemented in a new theme
17:48 goehle_ without breaking the existing stuff
17:48 mgage_ yep
17:48 mgage_ that sounds like a plan
17:48 goehle_ yup
17:49 goehle_ good stuff, but I had better not get distracted!
17:49 mgage_ right -- good luck with that :-)   ttyl
17:56 goehle_ openwebwork.org looks nice btw
17:56 goehle_ more than just the references database though
17:56 mgage_ yes -- djun did a great job
17:57 mgage_ I think djun's idea is to eventually replace the wiki as the entrance to the webwork community -- drupal is really flexible, more so than a wiki -- so I think this idea has potential
17:58 goehle_ it looks very nice
17:58 goehle_ so it does wiki style editing I assume
17:58 goehle_ what else?
17:59 mgage_ you can edit from the web.
17:59 mgage_ drupal has dozens of modules that can be fit together and customized -- Djun built this in a couple of hours
18:00 goehle_ it does look fancy
18:00 goehle_ and I've heard a lot about drupal
18:00 goehle_ will there be automatic migration over from the wiki here?
18:00 mgage_ I believe that MAA is planning to go to drupal to manage all of it's outward facing pages -- using a course management system is a good idea for this and drupal is a good if not the only choice
18:01 mgage_ I don't think we'd replace the wiki -- I still think that the wiki is a good fit for encyclopedic types of data --- and something that gives access to everyone to update.   -- so model courses, information on how to use MathObjects and so forth.
18:02 goehle_ ah sure
18:02 mgage_ the wiki is not quite flexible enough for blogs, forums and so forth -- drupal might well end up replacing our use of moodle (which is not really what moodle was designed for)
18:03 goehle_ sounds good to me
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