Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #webwork, 2013-05-03

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09:11 Topic for #webwork is now WeBWorK (http://webwork.maa.org) is an open-source online homework system for math and sciences courses. WeBWorK is supported by the MAA and the NSF. | Release notes: http://goo.gl/Ry5HN | Channel logged at http://goo.gl/jELTn
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16:48 goehle hey mgage
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17:23 Topic for #webwork is now WeBWorK (http://webwork.maa.org) is an open-source online homework system for math and sciences courses. WeBWorK is supported by the MAA and the NSF. | Release notes: http://goo.gl/Ry5HN | Channel logged at http://goo.gl/jELTn
18:30 mgage goehle: back
18:30 goehle hey
18:30 goehle I just wanted to see what was up with math4
18:33 mgage I have it working on hosted2 courses -- it's included in release/2.7 at the moment
18:33 goehle ionparticle was asking about it yesterday
18:33 mgage what else are you asking about?
18:33 goehle I didn't know what he meant by compatibility
18:34 mgage ionparticle is making additional changes -- probably adding bootstrap style css to the navigation elements for example
18:34 goehle that should already be there I think...
18:35 goehle except for the breadcrumbs at top, but they looked ok
18:35 mgage that would mean that one would have to rewrite math2 and math3  (and maybe even math4 )
18:35 mgage at this point I'd probably include that in the next release after 2.7 -- but in general it seems like a good idea.
18:35 goehle oh, I see.  He's changing the perl code
18:35 mgage right -- and wanted to know how much to worry
18:36 goehle ok
18:36 goehle so he wont break math4 unless he removes class tags
18:36 mgage in my opinion not too much because there aren't as far as I know that many themes
18:37 goehle one thing that would be nice would be to make the css stuff a bit more sane.  I glanced through the conversation yesterday and changing the colors for bootstrap is suprisingly hard
18:37 goehle in any case, I was just keeping tabs
18:38 mgage I don't know exactly what he was planning to change but he pointed me at the specs for twitter's navigation gadgets
18:38 goehle yeah
18:38 mgage that seems weird
18:39 mgage I thought css was supposed to make things like changing colors easy
18:40 mgage I'd like to use the cascading aspect of style sheets at somepoint so that unsophisticated users can make small tweaks without learning a  lot.
18:40 mgage brb
18:40 goehle in general yes, but bootstrap, while fancy, can be kind of complicated
18:40 mgage kk -- got a student now -- back in a bit
18:41 ionparticle I used the bootstrap customizer to change the colors
18:41 ionparticle http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/customize.html
18:41 goehle yeah, thats how I did it
18:42 ionparticle do you have a color scheme in mind I should use?
18:42 goehle but I was thinking it would be nice if we could have the bootstrap.css and then the regular css coudl have some really obvious things that users could change to integrate there school colors in a painless way
18:42 goehle honostly, I thought the default color scheme  for bootstrap matches the default colors pretty well, but I'm not a super great judge at that kind of thing
18:45 ionparticle I just changed a few shades here and there
18:46 ionparticle not really a fan of bootstrap's gray text on both black/white
18:46 ionparticle makes for poor contrast, so I've changed it back to white on black and black on white
18:46 goehle that reminds me
18:47 goehle Robin Cruz had some suggestions that I was going implement when I found time
18:47 goehle but they are super easy so you might as well hear them
18:47 goehle The font on the buttons is kind of thin and can be hard to see
18:48 goehle and ... the other thing was a bug that mike fixed.  So just one suggestion I guess
18:48 ionparticle lol
18:49 ionparticle http://webworkdev.elearning.ubc.ca:8080/webwork2/
18:49 ionparticle this is what I've been kicking around
18:50 ionparticle I was actually thinking about the buttons
18:51 ionparticle http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/base-css.html#buttons
18:51 goehle yeah
18:52 goehle I used those for the math4 buttons
18:52 goehle webworkdev isn't loading for me btw
18:52 ionparticle some of the older css was overriding bootstrap defaults
18:52 goehle not suprised
18:52 ionparticle but the defaults look fine to me
18:52 goehle ah, I see
18:53 goehle I guess I didn't notice the difference between the defaults
18:53 ionparticle ah
18:53 goehle and what was actually getting rendered
18:54 goehle Now that you mention it I can see the difference.
18:54 goehle I dont know how much you want to mess around with this, but if you end up adding these classes to the perl code then the javascript portion of math4 could be simplified considerably
18:55 ionparticle http://i.imgur.com/wwJQ8zJ.png
18:56 ionparticle somebody already added the classes
18:56 ionparticle not sure how
18:56 ionparticle lol
18:56 goehle to the perl code?
18:57 ionparticle I don't know, but it's in the markup
18:57 goehle Ah, thats the javascript
18:57 ionparticle ahh
18:57 goehle it uses jquery to add bootstrap classes to the existing elements
18:57 goehle so if you loaded up math2, for example, there wouldn't be any bootstrap
18:58 ionparticle oh, one question
18:58 goehle sure
18:59 ionparticle is the breadcrumb necessary
18:59 ionparticle it doesn't seem very useful in that the functionality is duplicated by the menu
18:59 goehle a good question.  I know those kinds of things are pretty standard.  (and there are even boostrap classes for them, although I didn't implement them)  but you are right, it does seem a little extraneous
18:59 ionparticle and the title sometimes just says the same thing
19:00 goehle I dont think its necessary, but it might be traditional
19:00 ionparticle ok
19:00 ionparticle I'll style it, but comment it out
19:00 ionparticle see if anybody complains
19:00 ionparticle lol
19:00 goehle right
19:03 goehle looks nice.  I would mention that the log out / logged in as text is hard to read
19:04 goehle and the course information edit button has a wierd button in a button vibe going on.  You might try adding the btn-link class to see if that makes it any nicer
19:04 ionparticle yeah, haven't done that part yet
19:04 ionparticle going to replace it with icons
19:05 goehle ah, that might even be better
19:05 goehle just out of curiosity, how are you going to replace it with icons?
19:05 ionparticle http://fortawesome.github.io/Font-Awesome/
19:05 ionparticle with this
19:06 goehle sure, and you can also find some default ones at
19:06 goehle http://twitter.github.io/bootstrap/base-css.html#icons
19:06 goehle but what I meant was, how are you going to implement it?
19:07 ionparticle eh, not sure until I've looked at the code
19:07 ionparticle lol
19:07 ionparticle yeah, the default bootstrap icons are missing a few things
19:09 ionparticle it's not a priority though, just trying to get to as much as possible with the time I have
19:10 goehle no worries.  I'm just trying to keep in the loop with how this stuff is being implemented moving forward.  Mike had wanted me to implement math4 without messing with the perl code.  If people change their minds and start adding the boostrap classes straight into the perl then things are going to get a big confusing
19:13 goehle get a bit confusing rather
19:13 ionparticle yeah, I would very much prefer not to have to do that either
19:14 ionparticle but the current architecture isn't exactly conducive to that
19:14 goehle you can do a suprising amount.  For example the current js replaces the pencil img's being produced by the perl and replaces them with the bootstrap icon
19:15 ionparticle nice
19:15 goehle it also dynamically makes the set table a small-table depending on if there are gateway quizzes or not
19:15 goehle (because they add extra columns)
19:16 goehle for example, for the edit button
19:16 goehle it already changes the text generated by the perl
19:16 goehle from [edit] to Edit
19:17 goehle you would only have to change lines 19-20 of the math4.js to replace Edit by the appropriate icon and change button to a link style
19:17 ionparticle ohh
19:19 goehle in any case, if you have any questions about whats going on in math4.js feel free to ask
19:20 goehle its not particularly well documented
19:21 ionparticle haha
19:21 ionparticle it seems pretty complete
19:22 ionparticle I'd rather not touch it
19:22 ionparticle too
19:22 ionparticle lol
19:22 goehle well, I think messing with that is preferable to messing with the perl.  If you mess with math4.js then you can't affect other themes
19:26 ionparticle yeah
19:49 mgage I think if you are going to mess with the perl the idea should be to make what is printed more generic -- rather than less -- so that it is easier to write .js to attach classes to the divs being printed by the perl.
19:50 mgage emitting actual bootstrap classes in the perl might cause trouble when the next new and greatest theme library comes along
19:52 goehle How do you want to deal with content type stuff.  Like the [edit] link for the course information box
19:53 goehle suppose you wnated to change that to an icon
19:53 goehle (or some of the other buttons to icons in the file editor, for example)
20:14 ionparticle just add the icon to the link text
20:14 ionparticle ?
20:14 mgage remember to keep in mind that this may translated to other languages.
20:15 mgage so for text in perl -- such as "edit" gets automatically translated by the localization code -- if you use icon's you will need to deal with that somehow
20:16 ionparticle ?
20:17 ionparticle don't you have to call maketext for that?
20:17 mgage if you have perl code    ..... print   maketext("Edit")   the word edit is automatically extracted and replaced by the word for edit in the local language (turkish, french, spanish etc.) -- if you are using an icon for this instead with a word in it then you will need to do the translation in the theme somehow
20:18 mgage for example the "next" and "previous" buttons used to be styled images -- we changed them back to links so that they would be translated automatically
20:19 mgage back to text links
20:19 ionparticle maketext("Edit") . "<i class='icon-name'></i>"
20:19 ionparticle but I don't think we'd put icons in perl
20:20 ionparticle otherwise, we'd have to import the icons in the other themes too
20:20 mgage that looks ok.  -- no you shouldn't put icons in perl  -- and perhaps you were only referring to picture icons -- but I just wanted to make sure you were thinking about localization issues while you are doing css styling
20:20 ionparticle oh
20:21 ionparticle yeah, I was only thinking picture icons
20:22 mgage np then.   We've made substantial progress in getting the text in WW localized -- it's still not 100% and only a few languages (e.g. turkish and french) have substantial dictionary -- but we are making progress.
21:27 ionparticle any plans for a new logo?
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