Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #webwork, 2013-10-24

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Time Nick Message
00:57 mgage_ joined #webwork
01:37 hamaliya joined #webwork
01:38 hamaliya my website for webwork does not display the "submit" button for any of my homewoeks
01:38 hamaliya homeworks
01:38 hamaliya it only has the "preview" button
01:40 mgage_ hi -- perhaps the open and due dates for the homework haven't been set yet?
01:41 hamaliya my professor changed the due dates and made them due later and so they were open for me to do the problems.
01:41 hamaliya he looked looked at my website as well he couldnt resolve the problem either
01:45 mgage_ ok -- in that case you'll have to consult with your professor about this.  which website are you using?
01:45 mgage_ what is the url?
01:45 mgage_ It usually means that the homework set is not open because it is before the open date or after the due date.
01:45 hamaliya http://mathweb1.sandbox.csun.edu/webwork2/math_103_F2013_16206/?effectiveUser=hh598269&displayMode=images&showOldAnswers=0&user=hh598269&key=OgT5BtNIeL1wM1U0Oc7PbSrBB4IPW5Oh
01:45 hamaliya the homework for this week is open and i am still unable to submit answers to each problem
01:49 mgage_ I see what you are talking about but I don't have any real suggestions -- it only happens on section 09 and sectino 10 not the others.  The instructor should make sure that you are enrolled as a student and not as a guest -- . I can't get into your courses as an instructor so I can't polk around myself.
01:51 hamaliya any way to resolve it?
01:51 mgage_ I'm sure, but it requires someone with administrative access to the course at csun
01:52 hamaliya okie dokie thanks a bunch
01:52 hamaliya lol ok ill stop thanks
01:52 mgage_ np
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19:49 goehle hey mgage
19:49 mgage hi geoff
19:50 mgage goehle:
19:50 goehle I have a bit of a philosophical question
19:50 mgage kk
19:50 goehle how robust should the past answers viewer be
19:50 goehle the window in your screenshot looks reasonably narrow
19:50 goehle i've been playing around
19:51 goehle the issue seems to be that in past answers it doesnt want to make a horizontal scroll bar
19:51 goehle so when you have a lot of columns
19:51 goehle blocks of text get very narrow
19:52 goehle the smallest change I could make would be to have essay answers have a reasonably wide min width
19:52 mgage aren't there css settings that will change that and allow for a horizontal scroll bar?  Perhaps that would give the best experience for the instructor reviewing answers.
19:52 mgage a min width might be good.
19:53 goehle if you are too aggressive with min widths you get lots of empty space
19:53 goehle when there are only numerical answers
19:53 goehle or only a few answers
19:53 mgage if we do have scroll bars we might rearrange the page so the important stuff was on the left -- no scrolling needed -- bu you could scroll to read a long answer
19:53 goehle thats the philosophical part.  Is it supposed to work when you have a dozen answers and an essay
19:54 mgage My short experience is that this is already a common use case for me. In just a couple of weeks of use in class.
19:55 goehle why, out of curiosity.  It seems like those would be some monster problems
19:55 mgage In fact the first use of essay answers may be for profs who already have a standard webwork question and want to give students a chance to comment on their work.
19:55 goehle sure
19:55 goehle but that would be one or two answers
19:55 goehle and an essay
19:55 goehle and why is your window so narrow
19:56 goehle i'm just trying to get into a different mindset
19:56 mgage well I have a couple of matrices and an essay
19:56 goehle ah
19:56 goehle matricies
19:57 mgage yeah -- the answer checking table looks rather weird as well
19:57 mgage here's my course https://hosted2.webwork.rochester.edu/webwork2/fall13MTH208/
19:58 mgage I'll put you in with the usual authentication and you can look around for yourself
19:58 goehle ok
19:58 goehle i also posted a screenshot on the pull
19:58 goehle thats on my screen
19:58 goehle I've put a bunch of answers and a pretty big essay
19:58 goehle got a problem I should look at?
19:59 mgage ok -- you should be in
19:59 goehle yup
19:59 mgage look at homework sets 4 and 5
20:00 mgage 5 in particular
20:00 goehle got a good user in mind?
20:01 mgage you can look at me -- I've actually done all or almost all of the problems -- I'm pretty much building this course as I go :-)
20:02 mgage problem 2 of hawk 5 is a good example
20:02 goehle yeah
20:02 goehle thats pretty ugly
20:04 mgage it might be necessary to set up some formatting choices for the instructor -- so that they can push a button and change the answer display from columns (good for numerical answers) to horizontally stacked answers (better for essay answers in some cases) -- or perhaps something even more complicated.
20:05 mgage change of topic.   Jason and I are sitting in on the big data in education course on coursera  -- don't know if you would be interested or not  (also not sure how long I'll last :-) )
20:06 mgage https://class.coursera.org/bigdata-edu-001/lecture/index
20:07 mgage I've got to head home now -- I'll be back on line in 40 minutes or so
20:51 mgage_ joined #webwork
20:57 mgage_ goehle: hi -- I'm back
21:31 mgage_ joined #webwork
21:55 goehle hey mgage_
21:55 mgage_ goehle: hi
21:56 goehle what do you think of the new formatting?
21:58 mgage_ this is much better
21:59 mgage_ in terms of short term fixes I'd suggest adding light horizontal bars just above each date -- and floating the date to the top of the answer being shown
21:59 mgage_ that way you could scroll to the last answer, and then follow the horizontal line across to see answers over to the right.
22:00 goehle short term?
22:01 mgage_ a perfect solution would allow us to adjust column width depending on the data in it
22:01 mgage_ perhaps even automatically
22:02 mgage_ I'm seeing some horizontal bars but not uniformly  after each answer
22:02 mgage_ why is that?
22:02 goehle thats what I did now
22:03 goehle I added classes to the columns depending on the data
22:03 goehle and then the classes have various min widths
22:03 goehle there is a bug now though
22:03 goehle that needs to be fixed
22:03 goehle currently the bar is there to seperate groups of answers
22:03 goehle that are more than the length of timout apart
22:04 mgage_ I see
22:05 rbeezer mgage_, aubreyja: I *intend* to take Big Data course.  See you in class.
22:05 mgage_ what I'm seeing is that the min width for the numeric data is still too big
22:05 mgage_ rbeezer: cool -- we have a study group
22:06 goehle thats the bug
22:06 rbeezer what??? I'll have to study?  I just want to "sit in"  ;-)
22:06 mgage_ goehle: is that what I should be seeing or do I need to update again?
22:06 goehle right now its not getting reset
22:06 goehle you should update again
22:06 mgage_ kk
22:06 goehle I also changed the table to make tracking long lines easier
22:08 mgage_ ok -- on problem 2 this looks really good now -- I'll want to look at it on other answers too -- but I think this will be great.
22:09 mgage_ I particularly like the alternating light and dark shading -- very classy
22:11 mgage_ rbeezer: we're talking about past answers -- and in particular how it works with the linear programming class I'm teaching (and writing WW homework for )
22:11 goehle mike has some crazy tables
22:11 goehle and he actually uses the answer log for soemthing
22:12 goehle :P
22:12 goehle one last bugfix
22:12 mgage_ well actually I don't check the answer log that often -- but I did when I was about to check in your stuff.
22:12 rbeezer Am I right that students cannot see past answers for essay questions?
22:12 goehle you can pull, but you dont have to restart the server
22:12 goehle no
22:13 goehle they should be able to, as long as you have enabled the ability for students to see past answers
22:13 goehle I put a heaver bar between answers which were submitted at very different times
22:13 rbeezer ok, maybe I have not done that.  I'll investigate (not immediatelY).
22:14 mgage_ I haven't done it either, but it is an idea worth considering.
22:14 rbeezer Students have asked me for it, I just presumed it was un-implemented, not off by default
22:17 mgage_ rbeezer: I can enroll you in my course if you like so you can look around
22:17 mgage_ you might have some suggestions -- linear programming is basically linear algebra :-)
22:17 rbeezer sure, these are essay questions, right?
22:18 mgage_ yes
22:18 rbeezer I know some LP, used to teach optimization here
22:18 rbeezer sign me up
22:19 goehle beh
22:19 goehle made another silly mistakes
22:19 goehle mistake
22:20 mgage_ rbeezer:  ok you are in   login name beezer and usual password
22:20 goehle hopefully this will be the last update
22:20 goehle I wasn't rebuilding the answer types properly if you show more than one question
22:21 goehle yeah thats better
22:21 mgage_ kk - updated
22:21 goehle try looking at all of the problems for
22:21 goehle g*
22:21 goehle set WBWK?
22:21 goehle and problem 1-5
22:21 goehle actually WBWK? is a little agressive
22:21 goehle WBWK4 is faster
22:22 goehle although WBWK? still works
22:22 mgage_ very nice
22:22 goehle actually thats not half unreasonable
22:22 goehle color coding seems to be working
22:22 goehle everything is readable
22:22 goehle is there too much horizontal space between answers?
22:23 goehle I could change min width to 15 for non essay answers
22:23 mgage_ I don't think so -- I'd leave it the way it is for now -- perhaps tweak it later after a lot of people have looked at it for a lot of different problems.
22:24 goehle sure
22:25 goehle quck question
22:25 rbeezer mgage_: can I have a hint on course URL or location?
22:25 goehle for gate
22:25 goehle gage
22:25 goehle WBWK3 problem3
22:25 mgage_ it's not ideal for matrices but there are a lot of things that aren't ideal yet for matrices (answer coloring for example) so I'm willing to wait.
22:25 mgage_ sorry https://hosted2.webwork.rochester.edu/webwork2/fall13MTH208/
22:25 goehle some of those essays look pretty malformed
22:29 rbeezer thanks, Mike.  I'm in and will look closer later, a bit hectic here at the moment...
22:30 goehle hey mgage
22:30 goehle is ** a webwork thing?
22:30 mgage_ take care rob
22:30 goehle mathjax doesn't render it properly
22:30 mgage_ no -- I think it's a fancy minus sign -- entered by cut and paste
22:30 goehle (as in x**2 )
22:34 goehle ok I'm heading home
22:34 mgage_ yep -- that's it -- you can look at my last answer today the a*^4 changed to -4
22:34 goehle hmm
22:34 mgage_ kk -- thanks for the update -- I'll play a bit more and then pull this into releae/2.8
22:34 goehle yeah the mathjax is not necessarily rendering things properly
22:35 goehle if you look at all your student responses to problem 3
22:35 goehle you can see that there are places where they are doing bad things with their math formatting
22:35 goehle and mathjax is kind of going a bit crazy.
22:35 goehle let me know if you think its a problem
22:35 goehle I'm going to head home in any case
22:36 mgage_ I don't think it is one we can fix right away.
22:36 mgage_ I suspect it's because they are cutting and pasting from another window running websim
22:36 goehle ok
22:36 mgage_ and minus signs get formatted on html with something fancy depending on the font
22:36 goehle hmm
22:37 goehle I do know my students use ** as an exponent
22:37 goehle which works correctly with webwork
22:37 mgage_ right but this  was   -4 that was rendering as  a^*4
22:37 goehle right
22:37 goehle so that was some sort of copy paste?
22:37 goehle even the ** breaks in mathjax though
22:37 mgage_ -   is a^* apparently
22:37 mgage_ yes
22:38 mgage_ I got to go now also -- ttyl
22:38 goehle remember to remove me from your course :)
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