Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #webwork, 2015-02-27

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01:37 rbeezer joined #webwork
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02:48 Topic for #webwork is now WeBWorK (http://webwork.maa.org) is an open-source online homework system for math and sciences courses. WeBWorK is supported by the MAA and the NSF. | Release notes: http://goo.gl/Ry5HN | Channel logged at http://goo.gl/jELTn
14:16 goehle joined #webwork
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19:02 drdrew42 joined #webwork
19:02 drdrew42 I've got a backlog of questions if anyone's here.
19:22 goehle hey drdrew42
19:22 drdrew42 Hi Geoff
19:23 drdrew42 Things are looking good with Jitar2 so far.
19:23 goehle nice
19:23 drdrew42 I'm mostly writing the problems right now, but they seem to be easily placed as sub-problems in the hmwk sets editor.
19:23 drdrew42 the drag and drop reordering is super nice.
19:24 goehle it is.  That is actually going to replace the traditional Problem Set Detail page
19:24 goehle even for normal sets because of it
19:24 drdrew42 good! I'm not a big fan of the old way.
19:24 drdrew42 I mean, I figured out how to make it work for me, but this is so much simpler.
19:24 goehle It was what it had to be if you were going to use drop downs and whatnot
19:24 drdrew42 yeah.
19:25 drdrew42 So, I'm having trouble getting the achievement items imported in 2.10
19:25 drdrew42 But I'm working from home today, and I haven't setup a local machine here yet.
19:25 goehle ah
19:25 goehle well two things you can do are
19:25 drdrew42 (still working on getting my IT dept to buy some VM software... that might take a while)
19:25 goehle - double check that you have Achievement Items (and not just achievements) enabled in the course configuration menu
19:26 drdrew42 I'm pretty sure I did, but I'll double check on Monday when I'm back in the office.
19:26 goehle - go to the Achievement Editor and click "Edit Evaluator" for one of the "Level" achievements and look for a line like $globalData->{HalfCreditProb} = 1;
19:26 goehle where HalfCreditProb can be one of any number of things
19:27 drdrew42 things corresponding to the effects of the achievement items?
19:28 goehle Depending on how you set your server up, if you copied model course to /opt/webwork/courses and didnt link it, then your modelCourse in courses doesn't get updated with webwork
19:28 goehle and may not have picked up the latest achievement stuff
19:28 goehle yeah
19:28 drdrew42 Ah, okay. So I used Jasons auto-install
19:28 goehle http://webwork.maa.org/wiki/Achievement_Items
19:28 goehle the list of ids to items is here
19:28 goehle it should work then
19:29 goehle one thing you can do to test is to reset all the achievement data, and set the number of points earned per problem (in course configuration) to something like 100000
19:29 goehle that will earn you every achievement for solving a single problem
19:29 goehle and you should get a bunch of items that way too
19:29 drdrew42 and do a problem, I should receive the items?
19:30 drdrew42 okay, I'll check it that way.
19:30 goehle you get an item when you earn a "level"
19:30 goehle so if you had already earned levels you might not be getting new items because you hadn't passed the next level threshold
19:30 drdrew42 Is it normal to see "0 achievements imported" when importing the items?
19:31 goehle depending on the options you choose it won't replace existing achievements
19:31 goehle so if you already had level achievements and you imported the achievement_items file
19:31 goehle then it would *not* replace the existing level achievements
19:31 goehle you would have to delete them first
19:32 drdrew42 Ahhhhhh, so is achievement_items intended to replace the level achievements from the standard achievements file?
19:32 goehle yeah, I think that was too confusing
19:32 drdrew42 that would be it.
19:32 goehle in the very latest iteration there is only one file
19:32 drdrew42 Awesome. That clears it up then.
19:33 goehle great.  That system has been around for a couple of years now
19:33 goehle so it should be pretty stable
19:33 drdrew42 On to question two, then.
19:33 drdrew42 In jitar, is there a way to pass the "seed" or any other variables to a sub-question?
19:34 goehle unfortunately not.  Problems dont know what kind of set they are in, or even what kind of environment they are in.
19:34 drdrew42 Okay, so the resolution of a missed problem must be done within the problem itself.
19:35 goehle It depends on what you mean
19:35 drdrew42 Like if I want to clarify for the student what steps they should have taken, etc.
19:35 goehle I suppose the design intent was to have generic review as the problems
19:35 drdrew42 Best to just give them access to the problem solution and move them into a breakdown of a 'similar' problem with a different randomization.
19:36 goehle The main issue being that problems in the problem library should work independently of other problems
19:36 goehle so I could configure things so that a certain "extra seed" parameter was passed to a problem
19:36 goehle but then that proble would have to be used in that specific jitar configuration
19:36 drdrew42 exactly.
19:36 goehle and would be more or less broken in other situations
19:37 goehle hmm
19:37 goehle I suppose something I could do would be to add a configuration variable to JITAR
19:37 goehle which makes it so that all subproblems have the same seed as their parent
19:38 drdrew42 That would help...
19:38 goehle Then your review would work as a generic thing with random numbers, but it would have matching numbers if in the right setup
19:38 goehle of course you would have to declare your random variables in "exactly" the same way
19:38 drdrew42 Exactly.
19:38 drdrew42 What I'm thinking is essentially two versions of the exact same problem.
19:39 drdrew42 The only difference is in the exposition of the problem.
19:39 goehle but one has more scaffolding
19:39 goehle yeah
19:39 drdrew42 yup
19:39 goehle and then you could follow up with a question thats the same as the first
19:39 goehle but you can use the fact that the seed is the same to guarantee that it has different values
19:39 drdrew42 You mean for the followup question?
19:39 goehle irght
19:40 drdrew42 How would that be implemented if the seeds match?
19:40 goehle you would have to do something like
19:40 goehle $a = random(1,10) - 1;
19:40 goehle or something similar which changes the number to something you know is different
19:40 drdrew42 Ahh, okay, just futz with parameters after the random call.
19:40 goehle right
19:41 drdrew42 So essentially, write up a problem, make two copies of it - one with the parameters adjusted, and the other with the same parameters and more scaffolding.
19:41 goehle well I would do three
19:42 goehle 1. Original Problem
19:42 goehle 1b.  Original Problem with Scaffolding
19:42 goehle 1c. Original problem with different numbers and grade replacement for original problem.
19:42 drdrew42 yes, exactly.
19:44 drdrew42 Okay, so I'm going to keep working on writing my problems with scaffolding - so if this seed-passing works out, I can just go through and delete the scaffolding to easily make an "original problem".
19:45 goehle Sounds like a good plan to me.
19:45 goehle I like the seed idea.  I worry a little that its too esoteric.  Instructors might not understand what the option is or what the implications are.
19:45 drdrew42 Also, regarding scaffolded problems, what's considered best practices right now? Using scaffold.pl or compound problem.pl?
19:46 drdrew42 or compoundproblem5.pl?
19:46 goehle I was using scaffolding in the more generic term of having step by step answers to fill out.  scaffold.pl is the most recent, though
19:46 goehle and you should use that
19:46 goehle if you want
19:46 drdrew42 yeah, it looks clean
19:46 goehle Davide basically did a cleanup/redesign of the compoundProblem stuff
19:47 drdrew42 I'll probably phase it out as I move into the higher level courses, but for the low-level students - they can get overwhelmed by a full page of text.
19:48 drdrew42 How does the number of attempts work with compound problems?
19:49 drdrew42 Does the submission of each part count as an attempt?
19:49 goehle its the number of submissions
19:49 goehle yeah
19:49 goehle compound problems and limited attempts are a bit of a non-combo
19:49 goehle because of htat
19:49 goehle if the seed thing works out
19:49 drdrew42 But that'd be perfect for a sub-problem
19:49 goehle right
19:49 drdrew42 awesome
19:50 drdrew42 Okay, one last question for now....
19:50 drdrew42 How can I get popuplists to use randomize parameters?
19:51 drdrew42 Like I want my question to contain a reference to $var
19:51 goehle how do you mean?  parameters with random numbers or randomized order?
19:51 goehle ah
19:51 goehle can
19:51 goehle can't you just do that?
19:51 drdrew42 So, I'm using the code
19:51 drdrew42 $popup = new_select_list();
19:51 drdrew42 etc
19:52 goehle ah
19:52 drdrew42 But when I reference $var in my question, it just shows up blank.
19:52 goehle http://webwork.maa.org/wiki/PopUpLists
19:52 goehle you might try to use parserPopUp which uses MathObjects
19:52 goehle and may be a bit more robust
19:52 drdrew42 Okay.
19:52 drdrew42 Again, I'm not clear on which popup method is most current
19:52 goehle irght
19:52 goehle parserPopUP is
19:53 goehle one sec
19:53 drdrew42 Okay, I'll stick to those then as well.
20:01 goehle Hey, I just tested it out
20:01 goehle and variables do work in
20:01 goehle parserPopUp
20:01 goehle so you should be good to go there
20:01 goehle I've got to help some students so I've got to go
20:01 drdrew42 Okay, thanks so much!
21:17 drdrew42 Having an error when using scaffold.pl, if anyone has a minute.
21:18 drdrew42 I can call $popup->menu() just fine
21:18 drdrew42 But trying to call $ans->ans_rule() is failing.
21:19 drdrew42 ERROR in old_safe_ev, PGbasicmacros.pl: <PRE>
21:19 drdrew42 ## There is an error occuring inside evaluation brackets \{ ...code... \}
21:19 drdrew42 ## somewhere in an EV2 or EV3 or BEGIN_TEXT block.
21:19 drdrew42 ## Code evaluated:
21:19 drdrew42 ## $total->ans_rule()
21:19 drdrew42 ##Undefined subroutine &PGcore::encode_pg_and_html called at [PG]/macros/PG.pl line 20.
21:27 goehle hey drdrew42
21:27 drdrew42 hi hello
21:28 drdrew42 any idea why a call to ans_rule might be failing?
21:28 goehle can you give me the pg code for the problem you are working with
21:28 goehle via pastebin or something
21:29 drdrew42 http://pastebin.com/W8vs15Lp
21:30 goehle what version are you working on?
21:30 drdrew42 2.9
21:30 goehle and how do you get the error?
21:31 drdrew42 the problem displays, but without any answer blanks for calls to ans_rule
21:31 drdrew42 I see the plaintext: \{ ###->ans_rule() \}
21:31 goehle so encode_pg_and_html is a relatively new method created to solve a particularly bad interpolation bug
21:31 drdrew42 where ### is the value of the variable
21:31 goehle it sounds like you have half an upgrade
21:32 goehle like scaffold has the method
21:32 goehle but PGcore is an older version
21:32 goehle I would upgrade both pg and webwork to
21:32 drdrew42 So this should be resolved if/when I upgrade to 2.10?
21:32 goehle the tag WeBWorK-2.9+ and PG-2.9+
21:32 drdrew42 I had to upgrade pg to get scaffold.pl
21:32 goehle that will upgrade your webwork to include the fix
21:32 goehle without needing you to go to 2.10
21:32 goehle going to 2.10 will also fix it
21:33 drdrew42 I didn't want to rebuild all my db's
21:33 drdrew42 in the middle of the semester.
21:33 goehle the 2.9+ means 2.9 plus all of the bugfixes to 2.9
21:33 goehle right
21:33 goehle it shouldn't require and db stuff
21:33 drdrew42 how can I git the 2.9+
21:34 goehle git pull origin WeBWorK-2.9+
21:35 drdrew42 hmmm, couldn't find remote ref WeBWorK-2.9+
21:38 drdrew42 git remote update --prune shows that I added a tag for 2.9+
21:43 drdrew42 Okay, git checkout WeBWorK-2.9+ worked
21:43 goehle checkout is fine
21:43 goehle although you probably want to merge it into your production branch at some point
21:43 goehle you may not have pulled the tags
21:43 goehle or fetch
21:44 goehle ed
21:44 goehle git fetch --tags origin
21:44 goehle I always get mixed up about what includes tags and what doesnt
21:44 drdrew42 I did remote update, it showed the new tags
21:44 goehle ah ok
21:45 drdrew42 I restarted my apache and reloaded the problem page - no errors.
21:45 goehle good
21:45 drdrew42 So I could checkout 2.10 right now?
21:46 drdrew42 db upgrades notwithstanding?
21:46 goehle that would probably involve database upgrades
21:46 goehle yeah
21:46 drdrew42 perfect.
21:47 drdrew42 I do like the clean look of scaffold.pl
21:48 goehle It is nice.
21:48 goehle Oh, I did some talking with some people about seed sharing thing.
21:48 goehle I like the power of the idea, but its a little fragile
21:49 goehle in the sense that it only works if the two problems declare their variables in exactly the same way
21:49 goehle and it probably wouldn't do anything good with just two random problems from the library
21:49 goehle sharing information between problems is an issue thats been around a while
21:49 goehle so I'll see what else has been done.
21:50 drdrew42 Cool, I'll keep dropping in here as regularly as I can.
21:51 drdrew42 I mean, if there's a course configuration variable to force the same seed onto subproblems in jitar
21:51 drdrew42 it won't do anything out of the ordinary unless the problems are selected in a very particular way
21:52 drdrew42 worst part would be that it's meaningless to most people, i guess?
22:01 goehle if its course configuration yes
22:01 goehle although that forces all jitar sets and all problems to have that behavior
22:02 goehle a more flexible thing would be to have a problem parameter
22:02 goehle in any case, I've got to head to a thing
22:02 goehle ttyl
22:02 goehle left #webwork

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