Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #native, 2017-03-22

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12:41 genio joined #native
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15:13 plicease Proposed AB AB::MB split:
15:13 plicease https://github.com/Perl5-Alien/Alien-Base/pull/184
15:13 plicease Please register any concers that you have.
15:13 plicease jberger, mohawk, sivoais: ^^  (but also anyone else)
20:04 jberger so aristotle is one of the members of the extreme back-compat faction of perl
20:05 jberger I don't worry too much about placating him, though his concerns are usually well founded he also can't ever be convinced
20:06 jberger I'm 100% ok with removing AB::MB from the core and releasing it separately
20:06 jberger I'm not as sure about making EUMM the default though
20:06 jberger I guess I had assumed that the split meant that there was not going to be a default
20:18 jberger plicease: how does Alien::Build store persistent data from the install (ie install type)?
20:18 plicease JSON in the share directory
20:19 plicease The rationale for using EUMM to install AB itself is that EUMM is in core and MB is not
20:19 plicease AB::MB will still use MB for its installer
20:20 plicease So my Alien::Foo that uses Alien::Build + Alien::Base can do so without needing MB
20:20 plicease Your Alien::Bar that uses Alien::Base::ModuleBuild + Alien::Base can use MB
20:21 plicease It doesn't change the user experience at all it just changes the thing that installs AB itself.
20:25 plicease There also isn't anything stopping someone from authoring a dist using Alien::Build + Alien::Base with Module::Build via Alien::Build::MB
20:26 plicease though I am not sure why you would want to.
20:26 plicease I only wrote Alien::Build::MB to show yes, this can be used with alternate installers.
20:26 jberger anyway, this is all moving in good directions
20:29 jberger I'm inclined to finally hand over first-come to you at this point
20:29 jberger as the project is mostly rewritten now anyway
20:29 jberger I was kinda holding it as a test-case for governance because of DBIC
20:31 jberger plicease: btw you have a typo in Manual::AlienAuthor
20:31 jberger missing a close single quote near %{make} install
20:31 jberger twice actually
20:31 plicease i see it
20:31 plicease :/
20:32 plicease fixed!
20:33 jberger yay
20:33 plicease I agree with your assesment with regard to aristotle's comments, I just felt that it is so easy to justify that I wanted to :)
20:34 plicease also his arguments would hold a lot more weight if he were an actual stakeholder
20:35 plicease If you want to hand over first-come to me that is okay by me.  I think I would like to keep the policy of keeping big stuff as a PR that sits around for a week so that people can comment.
20:35 plicease sometimes after a week I think of stuff I forgot anyway :)
20:36 jberger sure, I think the way things have been working thus far has been a good process
20:36 jberger mostly due to your diligence, tbh
20:37 jberger all in all I think this is going the way it should
20:37 jberger my AB was the prototype you throw away
20:37 plicease I try!  Usually in bursts when I am not focusing on other stuff.
20:38 plicease It was a pretty good prototype and we will be maintaining Alien::Base::ModuleBuild for a long while I expect
20:38 plicease and 99% of the design of Alien::Build came from stuff learned from Alien::Base.
20:39 jberger plicease: are you going to be at the PTS?
20:39 plicease PTS?
20:39 plicease oh.  no.
20:39 jberger if not I wonder if you were considered?
20:40 plicease is it invite only type thing?
20:40 jberger Alien::Build/Alien::Base would certainly be the kind of project that is involved, I just don't know how deeply
20:40 jberger yeah
20:41 jberger I was just thinking because leont said he's going to try to get his new builder project out before then
20:41 jberger so that he can work on/with it there
20:41 plicease It would be cool if Alien::Build could target it.
20:42 jberger and I've long said once there is an extensible pure-perl distribution builder better than Module::Build I'd be happy to target it for this
20:42 jberger exactly
20:42 jberger and if you were in the same room with leont it would be even easier
20:42 jberger (which is why this thing happens in the first place)
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20:43 jberger and all kinds of other things happen, like last year I was basically invited as moral support for Exodist regarding Test2
20:43 jberger but once that was hammered out I spent the rest of the time with the metacpan guys, for whom I then helped throw a mini-hackathon later
20:44 jberger I just really enjoyed that experience
20:44 plicease yeah understood.  I think even if invited I am not sure that I could make in May.
20:44 plicease Test2 is great
20:44 jberger it really is
20:45 plicease Alien::Build basically only has Test2 tests since I was writing it from the ground up.
20:46 jberger at the last panel meeting we had about it, it basically came down to aristotle arguing against it and me arguing for it (though most of the table was for it, I saw it as my raison d'etre to be vocal)
20:46 plicease yeah I can imagine.
20:46 jberger well, once you upgrade Test::More you have Test2 tests :-P
20:46 jberger but I know what you mean
20:46 plicease right.
20:47 plicease The doom and gloom scenarios that people were talking about regarding T2 don't seem to have come about in fact.
20:47 plicease there have been a few hiccups but nothing terrible.
20:47 jberger the conservative faction never wanted the guts of Test::More to be replaced
20:47 jberger and the rest of us knew that splitting the test infrastructure was unsustainable
20:48 plicease yeah crazy talk really.
20:48 jberger and since this was the most thorough attempt at a guts replacement that was likely to ever happen, it was basically Test::Builder forever or Test2: vote now
20:54 plicease I will at least be at yapc this year
20:54 plicease probably giving a talk on all of this stuff.
21:00 plicease I will have to pick a few key points though because there is a lot :)
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