Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-10-13

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 timotimo hi ShadowManu
00:05 ShadowManu hi mate
00:05 ShadowManu (not really used to IRC channels, but here I'm trying)
00:07 timotimo did you get the message about your first message getting cut short?
00:08 timotimo "at learning perl and comes the" were the last words
00:10 ShadowManu oh, it got truncated: "(...) I was looking at learning perl and comes the question: Perl5 or 6?" I have no issues with being in the bleeding-edge and updating code (if it's worth).
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00:13 timotimo there's a lot of cool to be had in perl6, like having very easy access to multithreaded/parallel/asynchronous stuff
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00:13 timotimo you'll probably be doing a bunch of ssh back and forth, we have a nice asynchronous libSSH binding
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00:29 * timotimo goes to bed
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01:55 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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07:30 Camelia_ Sounds like a plan, kannan ^_^
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07:30 Camelia_ Sounds like a plan, kannan ^_^
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07:30 Camelia_ Sounds like a plan, kannan ^_^
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07:30 Camelia_ Sounds like a plan, kannan ^_^
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07:30 Camelia_ Sounds like a plan, kannan ^_^
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10:58 HoboWithAShotgun what's the idiomatic way to split a list? i need something like (@good, @bad) = @peas.cinderella
10:58 HoboWithAShotgun or a destructive grep
10:59 HoboWithAShotgun it's early, i mean .cinderella( $matcher )
11:01 HoboWithAShotgun .categorize looks promising
11:02 MasterDuke i think there's also a classify-list
11:02 yoleaux 06:31Z <AlexDaniel-> MasterDuke: fwiw RT #132285
11:02 synopsebot RT#132285 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132285 [REGRESSION] Error message talks about null strings when trying to create a num32 Blob (Blob[num32].new(2e0))
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11:13 * HoboWithAShotgun s changes to atom have been merged
11:14 timotimo cool, what are they?
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11:19 tyil HoboWithAShotgun: congratz!
11:19 tyil that was your first PR ever, right?
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11:26 swastika hello guys , im new to perl programming language and i have expereice of scripting and programming with other languages , can anyone give a dicrection to me about a good read or starting considering im like to start with perl 6?
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11:31 tyil well, not if you leave immediately
11:32 bhm swastika: I just read "Think Perl 6: How to Think Like a Computer Scientist" by Laurent Rosenfeld & Allen B. Downey, and think it is a good book.
11:32 tyil bhm: he closed the chat tab a few seconds after he asked the question
11:33 bhm Argh.
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11:33 Camelia_ Hi, blub
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11:33 Camelia_ Hi, blub
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11:34 Camelia_ Hi, blub
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11:34 Camelia_ Hi, blub
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11:34 Camelia_ Hi, blub
11:35 timotimo why would someone call themselves "swastika"?
11:35 tyil to stay anonymous on the internet
11:35 xtreak joined #perl6
11:36 tyil or maybe he's just really religious
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11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: cc774260a8 | (Patrick Spek)++ | source/whatever/index.html
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Add Neovim as recommended editor.
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org:
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Fixes #84
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/cc774260a8
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: f04df671ca | (Patrick Spek)++ | source/whatever/index.html
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Update link to vim-perl6
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/f04df671ca
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: e7be47c70d | (Patrick Spek)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/whatever/index.html
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Merge pull request #86 from perl6/add-neovim-recommended-editor
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org:
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Add neovim as a recommended editor
11:45 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/e7be47c70d
11:46 Ven joined #perl6
11:46 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org/master: 4 commits pushed by (Patrick Spek)++, (Zoffix Znet)++
11:46 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org/master: 210cb7b371 | Add every bot from comments on #711 to the irc page
11:46 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org/master: 36fe024cc5 | Add descriptions to IRC bots
11:46 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org/master: a43ab8749c | Order the IRC bots alphabetically
11:46 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org/master: f583a2932c | Merge pull request #87 from Tyil/update-irc-bots
11:46 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org/master: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/compare/e7be47c70d...f583a2932c
11:48 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: b71cb4669b | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/community/irc.html
11:48 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Remove Zoffix-specific bot description
11:48 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/b71cb4669b
11:49 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: f6a01b0cab | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/community/irc.html
11:49 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Fix typos
11:49 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/f6a01b0cab
11:51 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: dd13c060ef | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/community/irc.html
11:51 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: Remove NeuralAnomaly
11:51 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org:
11:51 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: It's on extended vacation; replaced by releasable
11:51 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/dd13c060ef
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12:20 bitrauser Good afternoon everyone
12:20 tyil o/
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13:42 HoboWithAShotgun m: class A {}; my @a = A.new; say @a.classify({ .WHAT })
13:42 camelia rakudo-moar 975fcf: OUTPUT: «{(A) => [A.new]}␤»
13:43 * HoboWithAShotgun s changes to atom have been merged
13:43 HoboWithAShotgun m: class A {}; class B {}; my @a = A.new, A.new, B.new; say @a.classify({ .WHAT })
13:43 camelia rakudo-moar 975fcf: OUTPUT: «Use of uninitialized value of type A in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.␤{(B) => [B.new], (A) => [A.new A.new]}␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤Use of uninitialized value…»
13:43 HoboWithAShotgun Why?
13:44 HoboWithAShotgun m: class A {}; class B {}; my @a = A.new, A.new, B.new; say @a.classify({ .^name })
13:44 camelia rakudo-moar 975fcf: OUTPUT: «{A => [A.new A.new], B => [B.new]}␤»
13:45 tyil on modules.perl6.org, my App::MPD::AutoQueue still appears twice, even though I removed it from the META.list a while ago
13:45 tyil and some other modules from CPAN are still not appearing
13:46 HoboWithAShotgun m: class A {}; class B {}; my @a = A.new, A.new, B.new; say @a.classify({ $_ ~~ A ?? "A" !! $_ ~~ B ?? "B" !! "OTHER" )
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar 975fcf: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Missing block␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3~ A ?? "A" !! $_ ~~ B ?? "B" !! "OTHER" 7⏏5)␤    expecting any of:␤        statement end␤        statement modifier␤        statement modifier loop␤»
13:46 HoboWithAShotgun m: class A {}; class B {}; my @a = A.new, A.new, B.new; say @a.classify({ $_ ~~ A ?? "A" !! $_ ~~ B ?? "B" !! "OTHER" })
13:46 camelia rakudo-moar 975fcf: OUTPUT: «{A => [A.new A.new], B => [B.new]}␤»
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13:59 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: ae4680c858 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/fun/index.html
13:59 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: List 'On Troll Hugging, Hole Digging...' article
13:59 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org:
13:59 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: A bit of self-horn-tooting, but article received good feedback and it fits
13:59 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: next to audrey's Troll Hugging article already listed.
13:59 Geth_ ¦ perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/ae4680c858
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14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: aa5324584e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder.pm
14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: Unbust build
14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org:
14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: Was crashing due to https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/U/UG/UGEXE/Perl6/v0.1.30.tar.gz
14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: not having a dist name present in the filename.
14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org:
14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: Fix by warning about and skipping such dists.
14:32 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/aa5324584e
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14:35 ugexe fwiw allowing arbitrary file names allows one to use the ‘upload from link’ functionality from PAUSE with an archive link from GitHub
14:35 ugexe (which is how that file came to be)
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15:01 jdv79 ugexe: is that what we want?  arbitrary file names?
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15:14 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: aae710a7f9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/CPAN.pm
15:14 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: Toss dead code
15:14 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/aae710a7f9
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15:16 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: 3213557d4a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/CPAN.pm
15:16 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: Add CLEANUP to tempdir
15:16 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org:
15:16 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: Misread the docs originally and thought it was the default,
15:16 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: but that's only for method form.
15:16 Geth_ ¦ modules.perl6.org: review: https://github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/commit/3213557d4a
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15:26 ugexe jdv79: well I think we want to be a specific way as possible, but they have to allow arbitrary-ness in some way because dist name/ver cant always be mapped to a file system verbatim.
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15:36 atroxaper Hello #perl6
15:36 atroxaper Good Friday!
15:36 atroxaper Does anybody want to review my new module before publishing?
15:36 atroxaper https://github.com/atroxaper/p6-Propius
15:37 [Coke] spelling: cpecified (specified)
15:37 [Coke] :WITCH WHICH
15:38 atroxaper I better in Java but not in English xDD Thank you.
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15:42 ugexe the failed travis tests suggest you need to add OO::Monitors to your depends
15:42 atroxaper Oh. Good point.
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16:46 Geth_ ¦ evalbot: f35f462af1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
16:46 Geth_ ¦ evalbot: Increase SHA length from 6 to 9 chars
16:46 Geth_ ¦ evalbot:
16:46 Geth_ ¦ evalbot: These are used frequently in bug reports and 6-char sha is too
16:46 Geth_ ¦ evalbot: short and conflicts with other commits when using, say, commitable6
16:46 Geth_ ¦ evalbot: review: https://github.com/perl6/evalbot/commit/f35f462af1
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17:10 buggable New CPAN upload: Propius-0.1.0.tar.gz by ATROXAPER https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/A/AT/ATROXAPER/Perl6/Propius-0.1.0.tar.gz
17:10 buggable New CPAN upload: TimeUnit-0.1.2.tar.gz by ATROXAPER https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/A/AT/ATROXAPER/Perl6/TimeUnit-0.1.2.tar.gz
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17:22 jdv79 .tell jnthn I just RT'd the one from a week ago - RT#132287 - not sure how to debug that.  never had to debug something threaded like that before.
17:22 yoleaux jdv79: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
17:22 synopsebot RT#132287 [new]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=132287 [CONC] stall/block in async heavy code
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18:06 * HoboWithAShotgun puts "when you do $regex ~~ $string you get a coercion error" into his notebook
18:08 geekosaur yes, ~~ is not commutative.
18:08 geekosaur it has to pick one side to invoke .ACCEPTS on and feed that the other
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18:10 NotCamelia Good job, AlexDaniel
18:10 NotCamelia joined #perl6
18:10 NotCamelia Good job, AlexDaniel
18:10 NotCamelia joined #perl6
18:10 NotCamelia Good job, AlexDaniel
18:10 AlexDaniel ahhem…
18:10 yoleaux 13:46Z <Zoffix> AlexDaniel: what do you think of this ticket? https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131626#txn-1493785 The problem is swept under the rug and it the cause appears to be just that we shuttle a capture around from Unicode ops to ASCII ones, so that issue will be resolved on its own. So should the ticket be closed? What about tests?
18:10 AlexDaniel 3 more times
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18:10 yoleaux 13:48Z <Zoffix> AlexDaniel: also this one can prolly be closed entirely? https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131515#ticket-history
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18:10 NotCamelia Good job, AlexDaniel
18:10 NotCamelia joined #perl6
18:10 NotCamelia Good job, AlexDaniel
18:11 wander HoboWithAShotgun: https://github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1603
18:14 ugexe jdv79: looks like it could be an exception, notably https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/80cee3622363481f21a6c1f12da1a23a2606d5c8/src/core/IO/Socket/Async.pm#L151 "Too few positionals passed; expected 6 arguments but got 2"
18:14 TEttinger ... what is NotCamelia?
18:15 TEttinger panderbot?
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18:15 * geekosaur was considering a ban until he saw '3 more times'
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18:15 AlexDaniel- TEttinger: some smart ass came up with a way to make an IRC connection from camelia
18:15 TEttinger heh
18:15 ugexe jdv79: thats what i get when I run https://gist.github.com/ugexe/ee12646ef6ee1302a54a30cf85b3639b for a long enough time
18:16 AlexDaniel- now I'm hunting for regressions, so I took all m: snippets from IRC logs
18:16 AlexDaniel- and I run them on several rakudo versions and check for differences
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18:16 AlexDaniel- … which means that I'm running all sorts of crap people used to run on camelia during the last few years
18:17 TEttinger yeah, I think the similar issue that affected clojurebot and the earlier lazybot has been fixed. On the lazybot I host, apparently you would have had access to remote code execution, within message size limits
18:17 AlexDaniel- well, remote code execution is kinda the point of having an evalbot :)
18:18 AlexDaniel- whether it should have internet access or not is a different question, yeah
18:18 TEttinger rm -r /*
18:18 TEttinger don't want that evaled :)
18:19 geekosaur i,i evilable6
18:19 AlexDaniel- I'm not too concerned about that actually, but I don't want it to be evaled too :D
18:19 AlexDaniel- evilable6: say 42
18:19 evalable6 AlexDaniel-, rakudo-moar 80cee3622: OUTPUT: «42»
18:19 TEttinger ha
18:19 atroxaper left #perl6
18:20 AlexDaniel- (I'm not too concerned because most of the filesystem is read-only for the bots, but precomp files and other stuff isn't, so it will disturb the bots a little bit)
18:20 TEttinger if you can execute a file as another user maybe
18:21 TEttinger JVM has stuff to run shell commands with privilege
18:21 AlexDaniel- for that reason, for example, *ables no longer have RESTRICTED setting (it was worthless anyway), but please don't do crazy shit
18:21 TEttinger yeah
18:22 AlexDaniel- as for the internet access, there was at least one time when we were bisecting IRC::Client on bisectable
18:22 AlexDaniel- so it's super useful to have unrestricted bots, even though it's scary as f
18:22 wander so now when we overload operator infix:<=, it doesn't work on ≤?
18:23 wander surprised
18:25 geekosaur this is something of a known wart. it's a bit more widely visible than it used to be
18:25 geekosaur but there are a number of places where you have to be precise about that iirc
18:25 jast joined #perl6
18:26 wander fair enough, there must be people who think it should not work
18:27 cdg joined #perl6
18:28 wander for it said infix ≤ equivalent to <=, but never use the word alias
18:29 skids A DSL slang could conceivably want to make them differ.
18:33 jdv79 ugexe: hmm, ok
18:33 thunktone joined #perl6
18:40 jdv79 how come i can't get an exception out of that...
18:41 cdg joined #perl6
18:41 jdv79 ugexe: how'd you capture that exception?  i threw a CATCH in the start block of interest but still nada.
18:42 noganex joined #perl6
18:43 geekosaur wander, my understading is it *should* work and this is considered a bug, but a relatively minor one that is hard to fix without killing performance of the compile stage
18:44 ugexe jdv79: had to have RAKUDO_SCHEDULER_DEBUG=1
18:44 jdv79 oh, that's fun
18:45 jdv79 now i get "Unexplained error" again
18:45 jdv79 this stuff is fickler than most i've played with recently;)
18:46 pilne joined #perl6
18:46 wander geekosaur, can you briefly intro the difficulty
18:46 wander or show me the way to learn more about why low performance
18:48 geekosaur wander, ideally the names infix:< <= > and infix:<< <= >> and infix:<≤> etc. should be aliases. instead they are separate definitions, *and* certain parts of the code expect to see only one canonical form for them.
18:49 geekosaur I am not sure what's up with aliases, possibly they are intended to be implemented at some point but aren't yet.
18:49 geekosaur the second problem I mentioned is harder because making the code handle any of the possible forms the name can take will make it very slow
18:50 geekosaur given that you have to support both unicode and ascii versions along with any of multiple possible quoting formats, which end up being part of the name
18:51 AlexDaniel- related ticket: RT #131626
18:51 synopsebot RT#131626 [open]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131626 [PERF] ≥ and ≤  are 36x slower than Texas version; ≠ is 15x slower
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19:01 jdv79 ugexe: i'm gonna guess you ran out of socket pairs or something.  mine stalls out and doesn't throw much faster - mostly < 10s
19:01 jdv79 thanks though
19:01 AlexDaniel- .tell Zoffix I've added [TESTNEEDED] and [EXOTICTEST] tags to RT #131626. Honestly I don't mind it being closed, but something about just closing it does not feel right. Maybe this half-step will do for now.
19:01 yoleaux AlexDaniel-: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
19:01 synopsebot RT#131626 [open]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131626 [EXOTICTEST][PERF] ≥ and ≤  are 36x slower than Texas version; ≠ is 15x slower
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19:03 ugexe im not running out of sockets
19:04 El_Che an alpine dev in the room?
19:04 ryn1x joined #perl6
19:04 * AlexDaniel- was wondering why people talk about running out of socks
19:04 * moritz has been in the Alps before
19:04 AlexDaniel- I should really get some sleep… too tired
19:04 ugexe it will crash out faster if i'm not using gdb or strace
19:04 El_Che moritz: :)
19:05 ugexe an afinity worker thread is already created before it stalls
19:05 jdv79 huh
19:07 wander geekosaur, how about do textual-substitution before compile/interpret s/≤/<=/ for `≤' which does operator
19:08 ugexe it works until it prints out `[SCHEDULER] Added an affinity worker thread`
19:09 geekosaur wander, you still have to worry about all the possible ways it can be written
19:10 jdv79 it seems to me to work iff i see "SCHEDULER] Added a general worker thread"
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19:11 jdv79 that's interesting.  it seems very consistent now that i noticed that.  thanks ugexe
19:11 jdv79 so the new scheduler is a bit funky
19:14 jdv79 https://gist.github.com/anonymous/49f84d38087bf12d70eeeda95696a29b
19:14 jdv79 .tell jnthn - looks like the scheduler might have enough worker threads... - https://gist.github.com/anonymous/49f84d38087bf12d70eeeda95696a29b
19:14 yoleaux jdv79: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
19:15 ugexe hmm for me its never the initial affinity thread that does it
19:15 AlexDaniel- .tell regarding RT #131515, you say that it is not the right commit, even though it totally feels like it's exactly the right one. I'm too tired right now, but I've added [BISECTME] tag so that I'd get to it later. ⅕ of a step this time, but eventually we'll get it nailed
19:15 yoleaux AlexDaniel-: I'll pass your message to regarding.
19:15 AlexDaniel- fffffff
19:15 synopsebot RT#131515 [open]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131515 [BISECTME][PERF] Performance loss in some commits
19:15 AlexDaniel- .tell Zoffix regarding RT #131515, you say that it is not the right commit, even though it totally feels like it's exactly the right one. I'm too tired right now, but I've added [BISECTME] tag so that I'd get to it later. ⅕ of a step this time, but eventually we'll get it nailed
19:15 yoleaux AlexDaniel-: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
19:15 jdv79 hmm, is there a way to set the # of worker threads these days...?
19:16 ugexe RAKUDO_MAX_THREADS
19:16 AlexDaniel- o/
19:16 * AlexDaniel- &
19:16 jdv79 no, i mead statically create them on startup
19:16 jdv79 not a max for the dynamically created pool
19:17 jdv79 *mean
19:17 wander since what we care about is the operator form, s/infix:<≤>/infix< <= >/
19:17 HoboWithAShotgun fricking smartmatch. %h ~~ $key doesn't work. It has to be $key ~~ %h
19:17 gfldex jdv79: there is still Thread.start
19:18 wander what zoffix did in https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/6ec21cb473 is  `if ($name eq '&infix:<≤>') { $op.name: '&infix:«<=»' }`
19:18 [Coke] You can write your own schedule, I think.
19:18 [Coke] *er
19:19 geekosaur HoboWithAShotgun, did you see my earlier remark about that?
19:20 wander maybe definition should also be converted
19:20 geekosaur ~~ CANNOT be commutative. (think of it this way, a subclass is not a superclass. so A ~~ B can't imply B ~~ A if B is a subclass of A)
19:21 geekosaur wander, you are still missing the point that you can use any of umpteen different kinds of quoting
19:22 ryn1x joined #perl6
19:22 jdv79 i get a weird mutex error if i try to set initial_threads
19:22 jdv79 but i can still set max_threads in a new Scheduler like before the rework
19:22 wander isn't simply textual-substitution, but when deal with a operator definition it performs
19:22 jdv79 oh, its not public
19:23 jdv79 gah
19:23 geekosaur infix:<≤> and infix:<<≤>> and infix:«≤» and infix:‹≤› are all supposed to be the same thing (and there's still other ways to write it)
19:23 wander well
19:23 geekosaur do you start to see the problem?
19:24 wander so the fix doesn't work, right?
19:24 wander it just deal with '&infix:<≤>'
19:27 wander if we can reduce all forms of use into '&infix:<≤>', we shall be able to reduce all form of definition into one, says, standard form
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19:29 jdv79 so tried to recompile with initial_threads set to 4 and got a lock error
19:29 jdv79 :(
19:30 ugexe there have to be a certain number of threads initially, although i dont know what that number is
19:30 ugexe 1 for gc for instance
19:30 jdv79 the default worker count is 1
19:31 ryn1x joined #perl6
19:31 timotimo yeah the MAX_THREADS is only the default for any scheduler created without that argument passed in code
19:31 jdv79 i think what's happening is that I'm piling (possibly dependant) work on the scheduler before it decides to start enough threads and it deadlocks
19:31 wander convert the definition instead of substitute text
19:31 jdv79 or something like that
19:32 timotimo moarvm will start one thread for spesh and jit, and one thread for eventloopy things
19:32 jdv79 unless there's a better theory for why my test case only works if a second general worker is started 
19:32 ugexe that doesn't explain the exception i see though
19:33 jdv79 i'm not sure that's necessarily related
19:33 jdv79 i don't everr get an exception here but the test passes and doesn't
19:34 ugexe did you run the code exactly as is from that gist?
19:35 jdv79 yeah
19:35 ugexe because it -is- slightly different in that the same perl6 instance would be managing every retry
19:35 jdv79 im running both way
19:35 jdv79 s
19:35 Zoffix joined #perl6
19:35 Zoffix .
19:35 yoleaux 19:01Z <AlexDaniel-> Zoffix: I've added [TESTNEEDED] and [EXOTICTEST] tags to RT #131626. Honestly I don't mind it being closed, but something about just closing it does not feel right. Maybe this half-step will do for now.
19:35 yoleaux 19:15Z <AlexDaniel-> Zoffix: regarding RT #131515, you say that it is not the right commit, even though it totally feels like it's exactly the right one. I'm too tired right now, but I've added [BISECTME] tag so that I'd get to it later. ⅕ of a step this time, but eventually we'll get it nailed
19:35 synopsebot RT#131626 [open]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131626 [EXOTICTEST][PERF] ≥ and ≤  are 36x slower than Texas version; ≠ is 15x slower
19:35 synopsebot RT#131515 [open]: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=131515 [BISECTME][PERF] Performance loss in some commits
19:36 Zoffix wander: convert definition to what?
19:36 ugexe to me it looks like the wrong continuation is used to eventually pass arguments to
19:38 jdv79 hmm, ok
19:38 Xliff \o
19:39 Xliff geekosaur: What mneumonic do you use to determine smartmatch order?
19:39 Xliff I typically think of ~~ as one of "matches", "is" or "does".
19:40 Xliff You could even use "in", but that's semantics.
19:40 ugexe jdv79: which rakudo/moar revisions? can't think of another reason we'd have different results
19:40 jdv79 latests
19:40 Zoffix wander: the commit simply rewrites Unicode `≤` to ASCII `<=` (as long as both are core), so we bypass the perfomance hit of shuffling the Capture: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/7bea3a2dd/src/core/Numeric.pm#L301
19:41 ryn1x joined #perl6
19:41 geekosaur Xliff, I know it's turning into R.ACCEPTS(LHS)
19:41 ugexe mine is a few days old, but i'll see what latest does
19:41 geekosaur er RHS.ACCEPTS(LHS)
19:41 Xliff Ahh. That actually is better than what I've been using.
19:41 jdv79 if you go back to before the scheduler rework, say 2017.09, mmy test always passes
19:41 Zoffix s/shuffling/shuttling/;
19:42 jdv79 but now i'm just repeating myself 
19:42 wander seeing your fix `if ($name eq '&infix:<≤>') { $op.name: '&infix:«<=»' }`, I wonder if all ≤ calls have the form `&infix:<≤>`
19:42 wander if so, we may write `if ($name eq infix:<≤>) { $op.name: 'infix:«<=»' }` "when dealing with multi operator definition"
19:42 jdv79 anyway, anyone have any ideas here?:  https://gist.github.com/anonymous/dbe5c79eeed3b3e456f7e872d146603d
19:43 Xliff geekosaur: is .ACCEPTS nqp?
19:43 jdv79 all i did was change the # of initial_threads from 0 to 4
19:43 wander premise, <= is the alias of ≤
19:45 geekosaur m: say Int.ACCEPTS(3)
19:45 camelia rakudo-moar 7bea3a2dd: OUTPUT: «True␤»
19:46 geekosaur ~~ is just shorthand for aliasing $_ to the left side and then invoking the ACCEPTS method of the right side with $_ as parameter
19:46 Xliff kk
19:46 wander Xliff, https://github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/ebac9feeb696f5f1774a3feb1ef10e8262e8e6f3/src/core/NQPMu.nqp#L86
19:47 geekosaur so I guess I read ~~ as 'is ACCEPTed by'
19:47 Xliff Which is a more conside way of how I was thinking about it. LOL.
19:47 Zoffix wander: yeah, any way you write them will be cannonicalize to one form: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/7bea3a2dd/src/Perl6/World.nqp#L5023-L5039
19:48 Zoffix wander: you can see it gets converted to infix:<≤> form if you dump AST: perl6 --target=ast -e 'infix:«≤»(4, rand)' and if you dump optimizer stage, you can see it gets converted: perl6 --target=optimize -e 'infix:«≤»(4, rand)'
19:49 espadrine joined #perl6
19:49 Zoffix wander: unsure what you mean by "`if ($name eq infix:<≤>) [...] "when dealing with multi operator definition""`. The `$name eq infix:<≤>` won't be valid code in the optiimizer
19:55 wander Zoffix, since we are able to convert_unicode_op_to_ascii when optimize_call, can we convert_unicode_op_to_ascii when define_multi_sub?
19:57 ryn1x joined #perl6
20:00 wander then both definition and use of there ops are equivalent, so they are aliases
20:01 Zoffix wander: probably yes. But I don't know how. I'm a n00b at this. lizmat++ proposed doing something like that when the commit when it, so maybe she know how. Prolly should watch out for how it works out with user defined ops. Unless we define all Unicode ops as strictly aliases for ASCII ops (prolly make sense). IIRC there as an `is alias` trait lizmat made in the past but it disn't make the cut
20:02 Zoffix huggable: alias
20:02 huggable Zoffix, Alias methods (with `aka` trait): https://irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-08-31#i_15093699  Condensed to an "also" trait: sub trait_mod:<is>(Method:D $m, :$also!) { my $c := $m.package; $c.^add_method($_,$m) for @$also }
20:02 Zoffix hm, that's for methods
20:03 Zoffix wander: FWIW we also have #perl6-dev channel where more devs who know this stuff might notice the discussion :)
20:03 cdg joined #perl6
20:03 * Zoffix & for awhile
20:16 wander Zoffix, thank you for replies.
20:21 Nicolas__ joined #perl6
20:25 Nicolas42 joined #perl6
20:26 Nicolas42 \o
20:26 Nicolas42 <--- Zoffix on step-brothers box.
20:27 dataangel joined #perl6
20:27 Nicolas42 Gonna teach Perl 6 lulz
20:30 ryn1x joined #perl6
20:30 gfldex perl6 -e 'my $s = "y\n" x 1024; loop { print $s }' | pv -r > /dev/null
20:31 gfldex any idea how to speed that ^^^ up further?
20:31 gfldex context: https://matthias-endler.de/2017/yes/
20:34 Nicolas42 Prolly my $s = "y\n" x 1024; my $fh := $*OUT; $fh.print: $s while 1;
20:34 Nicolas42 There's an old reddit thread in r/perl6 something with "performance concerns with `yes`" and it has something similar to this. with Zoffix showing an example of how to optimize it more, but I think it was just that... with storing the handle and changing loop to while
20:35 mempko joined #perl6
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20:37 gfldex that is a good bit faster indeed
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21:09 ToastyNIck How do make it log in How can make it log in https://gist.github.com/ToastyNIck/4758980b30317b9a33e9707d7ed82d27
21:13 Zoffix lol
21:13 Zoffix That's my sibling
21:13 Zoffix Total noob. A kid. So be nice, even with bad questions :)
21:14 Zoffix Probably gonna be about making a Discord bot
21:23 ryn1x joined #perl6
21:32 masak Zoffix: Perl 6 is all about younger siblings ;)
21:37 ryn1x joined #perl6
21:39 Zoffix :)
21:39 * Zoffix retreats to #perl6-dev
21:40 Zoffix \o
21:40 Zoffix left #perl6
21:53 thunktone \exit
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23:32 [equa] how would I go about combining multiple regexps into a regex that matches them in order? e.g. turning /a/ and /b/ into /ab/
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23:40 [equa] agh
23:40 [equa] guess I can work around it by turning into a function that tests each regex in order, I guess
23:41 BenGoldberg You can do my $a = qr/a/; my $b = qr/b/; my $combined = qr/$a$b/;
23:41 BenGoldberg Hmm, make that my $combined = qr/$a|$b/, since you want to match if any of them match.
23:41 [equa] no, i want them in order
23:41 [equa] thanks
23:42 BenGoldberg Welcome :)
23:42 araralonre__ joined #perl6
23:46 araralonre__ joined #perl6
23:47 [equa] hmm, this is weird. I'm looping through the list of regexs and then adding them together via $final-regex = /$final-regex $_/. However, when I try to actually match something against the result, it just sits there and hangs forever
23:48 ryn1x joined #perl6
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23:51 geekosaur that's not right for perl 6
23:52 araralonre__ joined #perl6
23:52 geekosaur // would do the match right away. you want qr//. and if the components are actually full regexes and not intended to be constant strings then you need <$x> to get them to interpolate as such
23:53 timotimo joined #perl6
23:53 geekosaur but for this I think the better route is to build up a string and qr/<$whatever>/ at the very end
23:53 geekosaur to compile it into a regex
23:54 [equa] that sounds like the best choice
23:55 timotimo build up the regex with QAST nodes :P
23:55 geekosaur m: my @rs = <abc def ghi>; say [~] @rs
23:55 camelia rakudo-moar 012c80f33: OUTPUT: «abcdefghi␤»
23:56 araraloren_ joined #perl6
23:56 geekosaur ...that sounds like a good way to go QASTers up >.>
23:56 timotimo hm?
23:57 geekosaur sorry, bad pun
23:57 timotimo aye, please explain though?
23:58 geekosaur 'casters up' = shit done broke
23:58 timotimo what region is that slang from?
23:58 geekosaur which is what you;re going to get if someone not familiar with QAST tries oit
23:58 telex joined #perl6
23:59 [equa] geekosaur: works great, thanks
23:59 araralonre__ joined #perl6
23:59 timotimo if you want to be able to capture stuff, though, you have to EVAL, don't you?

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