Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #perl6, 2017-11-14

Perl 6 | Reference Documentation | Rakudo

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01:00 llfourn timotimo: thanks! I didn't watch it yet :o. Hopefully I get some time soon to fixup Spit.
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02:00 lookatme .o/
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02:23 comborico1611 Goodnight, Perl people.
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02:56 Topic for #perl6 is now »ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | https://perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:,  or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: http://irc.perl6.org or http://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
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03:12 Thrush I have two regular expression questions:
03:12 Thrush First, how do I emulate the s///e option from Perl 5?
03:13 Thrush And second, if I have a regular expression where I have case-sensitivity turned off (with the :i adverb), how do I turn it back on in the middle of the expression?
03:13 timotimo for the second, you can use :!i
03:14 timotimo what does the e option for substitutions do?
03:14 timotimo (i've never used perl5)
03:14 timotimo it seems to be about having $foo in the latter part be replaced with the contents of the variable $foo?
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03:15 timotimo m: my $foo = "this stuff"; $_ = "hello there"; s:g/e/$foo/; say $_
03:15 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «hthis stuffllo ththis stuffrthis stuff␤»
03:15 timotimo if i understand your question correctly, perl6 already does /e by default
03:16 timotimo oh, or maybe you want to have the name of a variable inside the to-be-matched string and put the contents of that in?
03:17 timotimo m: my $hey = "HEY"; my $ho = "HO"; $_ = "!!hey!! and !!ho!!"; s:g/'!!' (.*?) '!!'/{::('$' ~ $0)}/; say $_
03:17 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «HEY and HO␤»
03:17 timotimo like that?
03:17 Thrush timotimo:  The s///e modifier lets you put code in the substitution portion.
03:18 timotimo you can either just put code inside curly braces inside the substitution portion, or you can use the "assignment syntax" version of the s operator:
03:19 timotimo m: $_ = "beep boop foo bar"; s:g/ ... ' '/ = ("a".."z").pick; say $_
03:19 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed replacement part; couldn't find final /␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 s:g/ ... ' '/ = ("a".."z").pick; say $_7⏏5<EOL>␤    expecting any of:␤        postfix␤»
03:19 timotimo oops
03:19 timotimo has to be brackets
03:19 timotimo m: $_ = "beep boop foo bar"; s:g[ ... ' '] = ("a".."z").pick; say $_
03:19 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «bxboibar␤»
03:19 timotimo m: $_ = "beep boop foo bar"; s:g[ ... ' '] = ("a".."z").pick; say $_
03:19 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «bmbfpbar␤»
03:19 timotimo m: $_ = "beep boop foo bar"; s:g« ... ' '» = ("a".."z").pick; say $_
03:19 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «bpbvdbar␤»
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03:19 timotimo any kind that perl6 understands is fine
03:20 timotimo hope that helps! i'm off to bed
03:20 timotimo o/
03:20 timotimo (oh, the only ones that aren't allowed there are ( ) parenthesis)
03:21 Thrush timotimo:  Well, that's pretty cool.  Thanks.  I'll have to study that.
03:21 Thrush timotimo:  I was just reading about the brackets of substitution today.  I didn't know you could assign it code, though.
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04:10 piojo m: <a b c>».say
04:10 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «a␤b␤c␤»
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04:10 piojo I just found out the above doesn't work in the windows REPL
04:10 piojo Malformed UTF-8 at line 1 col 10 in sub nativecast at D:\rakudo\share\perl6\sources\51E302443A2C8FF185ABC10CA1E5520EFEE885A1 (NativeCall::Types) line 5
04:12 piojo oh, it's coming from Linenoise. Let me uninstall that and see if it persists
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04:13 piojo Without Linenoise, it just prints "> Decoder may not be used concurrently" endlessly
04:13 MasterDuke_ piojo: did you run `chcp 65001`? i believe that's needed for unicode support in the windows command line
04:14 * testaccount
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04:15 BenGoldberg If you're using powershell, then [Console]::OutputEncoding = [Text.UTF8Encoding]::UTF8
04:15 piojo MasterDuke_: after running that command, the test simply makes rakudo quit
04:15 piojo But I can run it with perl6 -e "<a b>».say"
04:15 piojo so console unicode support is not the problem.
04:15 piojo but term I/O unicode support may be the problem.
04:18 ZzZombo Shouldn't https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/docs/ChangeLog use the `.md` extension in order to use Markdown syntax highlighting?
04:18 piojo MasterDuke_: by the way, in windows 10, unicode support is present in CMD, but that command breaks it
04:19 piojo I mean, chcp 65001 breaks it
04:19 MasterDuke_ huh, i don't really use windows, but i thought that was needed. maybe only for pre-windows10...
04:21 piojo I can't speak for the older versions
04:21 * piojo files rakudobug
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04:31 TEttinger chcp can generally be expected to break console functionality. I've sometimes had it work
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04:45 piojo Something else unicode related is that matches aren't printed correctly on Windows, either in the REPL or from "perl6 -e ..."
04:45 piojo m: say "a" ~~ / . /
04:45 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «「a」␤»
04:46 piojo Those boundary characters become something nasty, like "「"
04:47 piojo But the terminal CAN handle those characters, since I can input them (by copy/paste)
04:47 piojo but rakudo won't print them, even when I write something as plain as: say '「'
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05:34 ZzZombo m: say List ~~ Seq
05:34 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «False␤»
05:34 ZzZombo m: say Seq.^parents
05:34 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «()␤»
05:34 ZzZombo m: say List.^parents
05:34 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «()␤»
05:34 ZzZombo m: say List.^roles
05:34 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «((Positional) (Iterable))␤»
05:35 ZzZombo m: say Seq.^roles
05:35 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «((Sequence) (PositionalBindFailover) (Iterable))␤»
05:42 wander m: List.^mro.say
05:42 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «((List) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
05:42 wander m: Seq.^mro.say
05:42 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «((Seq) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
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08:27 * lizmat clickbaits https://p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/11/13/2017-46-spesh-explained/
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09:13 sproctor So I had a rather strange thought yesterday and I was trying to work out if it's good practice. Basically I'd like a breakable timed promise. The trick I came up with : sub breakable-timer ( $time where * > 0, &block --> Promise ) { my $flag = Promise.new; Promise.in($time).then( { if $flag.status ~~ Planned { $flag.keep( &block() ); } } ); return $flag }
09:14 sproctor Now I'm trying to work out if that's Evil or not.
09:15 sproctor It returns a Promise that will eventually call the given block and return the result. But you can break that promise (or keep it) to NOT call the block.
09:15 sproctor This is mainly a thing I'm thinking about with Supplies and multiple events in quick succession.
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09:21 moritz sproctor: sounds sensible, though your code might contain a race condition
09:21 lizmat sproctor: what you basically need is an Promise.in() that isn't vowed
09:24 sproctor lizmat: That's be cool.
09:25 moritz or a promise combinator that can also fail a promise
09:26 sproctor moritz: yeah.... If I made it into $flag.status ~~ Planned && $flag.keep( &block() ) would that fix it? Or I just wrap it in a try block.
09:26 moritz m: my ( $p1, $p2 ) = Promise.new xx 2; my $p3 = Promise.anyof($p1, $p2); $p2.break("foo"); say $p3.status
09:26 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «Planned␤»
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09:27 sproctor (I mean I guess it's why the Promise factory stuff isn't generally breakable)
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09:32 Ven`` o/, #perl6.
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09:36 Ven`` I think I already asked this a few months ago, but I totally forgot... Is there a way to write `role C[::F[_]] {}`?
09:36 Ven`` Basically, taking a type parameter that can be parameterized (higher-order).
09:38 moritz I don't think you can
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09:39 Ven`` aw :(.
09:39 Ven`` actually I think I remember being told the same thing, because with specialization, such a thing would make the type-system turing complete, i'm fairly sure.
09:40 Garland_g[m] I think I found some sort of bug with the RAKUDO_EXCEPTIONS_HANDLER=JSON flag.
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09:41 Garland_g[m] The code that produces it is 'my Var $var;'
09:41 Garland_g[m] but only when that flag is set
09:42 lizmat could you gist that ?
09:43 * Ven`` wonders if there's a way to coerce the type parameter into a ParameterizedRole or something, that could be used in signatures later.
09:44 Ven`` .ask jnthn Is there a way to take a parameterized role as a role parameter?
09:44 yoleaux Ven``: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
09:46 Garland_g[m] https://gist.github.com/Garland-g/64fa200af9878841902647b6d80e9935
09:46 lizmat m: BEGIN my $R = Rational[Int,Int]; role B[::T] { dd T }; dd B[$R]   # Ven``
09:46 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «Rational[Int,Int]␤B[Rational[Int,Int]]␤»
09:47 Ven`` lizmat: I mean, T is an instantiated parameterized role
09:47 lizmat Garland_g[m]: I have to be afk soon, but will look at that in a few hours
09:47 Ven`` I probably poorly explained myself.
09:48 Ven`` I meant taking a role you can parameterize. Like role B[::T[_, _]] { dd T[Int, Int]; }; B[Rational];
09:49 Ven`` of note: role B[::T[::A, ::B]]{} doesn't work either, and "should" mean a different thing
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09:50 lizmat afk&
09:51 Ven`` .ask jnthn I'm afraid I'm unclear, as usual. I mean taking a role you can parameterize. Like role B[::T[_, _]] { dd T[Int, Int]; }; B[Rational];
09:51 yoleaux Ven``: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
09:51 moritz Ven``: you might be able to workaround by using role B[::A, ::B, ::T] { } and inside the body then use T[A, B]
09:52 piojo whoa, I just discovered IO.slurp isn't threadsafe!
09:52 Ven`` moritz: nope, because then T cannot be parameterized
09:53 piojo when I slurp the contents of a ton of files in an "await do for { start { } }" loop, it occasionally throws exceptions saying "Cannot assign to an immutable value"
09:53 Ven`` it doesn't know T takes parameters
09:53 piojo when I'm only calling $file-path.IO.slurp; on that line, with no assignment
09:54 moritz Ven``: well, using T[A, B] inside the role body will result in an array if T isn't parameterized
09:55 Ven`` moritz: https://gist.github.com/vendethiel/b7cf91ed5a0caf42f78e3977d680aede
09:56 Ven`` my rakudo is maybe a month old
09:56 moritz m: role F[::T, ::A, ::B] { dd T[A, B] }; F[Rational, Int, Int]
09:56 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤T cannot be parameterized␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3role F[::T, ::A, ::B] { dd T[A, B]7⏏5 }; F[Rational, Int, Int]␤»
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09:56 moritz doens't change on a newer rakudo
09:57 moritz so, no dice
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10:05 jnthn m: role F[::T, ::A, ::B] { dd T.^parameterize(A, B) }; F[Rational, Int, Int]
10:05 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant value F[Rational, Int, Int] in sink context (line 1)␤»
10:06 jnthn m: role F[::T, ::A, ::B] { dd T.^parameterize(A, B) }; say F[Rational, Int, Int]
10:06 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «(F[Rational,Int,Int])␤»
10:06 jnthn m: role F[::T, ::A, ::B] { dd T.^parameterize(A, B) }; say F[Rational, Int, Int].new
10:06 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «Rational[Int,Int]␤F[Rational,Int,Int].new␤»
10:06 jnthn Ven``: ^^
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10:38 piojo IO.slurp is not threadsafe, but open/lines().cache/close is
10:38 piojo seems strange to me.
10:40 Ven`` jnthn: awesome! thanks.
10:40 Ven`` That's really cool :D.
10:41 Ven`` jnthn: Now I need to figure out how to get that in type signatures :)
10:42 Ven`` m: role F[::F] { sub map(:(::A --> ::B), F.^parameterize(A) --> F.^parameterize(B)
10:42 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot put required parameter  after variadic parameters␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3role F[::F] { sub map(:(::A --> ::B), F7⏏5.^parameterize(A) --> F.^parameterize(B)␤    expecting any of:␤      …»
10:44 Ven`` m: role F[::F, ::A, ::B] { constant FA = F.^parameterize(A); constant FB = F.^parameterize(B); sub map(:(A --> B), FA --> FB) { } }
10:44 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤An exception occurred while evaluating a constant␤at <tmp>:1␤Exception details:␤  No such method 'parameterize' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::GenericHOW'␤    in block  at <tmp> line 1…»
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10:44 Ven`` I guess "constant" is the wrong phase.
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10:46 Ven`` jnthn: is there an "INSTANTIATED" phaser or somesuch?
10:46 jnthn No, because the role's body block runs each time it's instantiated, so there's no need for a phaser
10:47 Ven`` mh
10:47 Ven`` m: role F[::F, ::A, ::B] { my \FA = F.^parameterize(A); my \FB = F.^parameterize(B); sub map(:(A --> B), FA --> FB) { } }
10:47 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!===␤No compile-time value for FA␤»
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10:48 Ven`` seems like there's a need for a phaser, or something that's compile-time-for-that-role
10:48 jnthn m: m: role F[::F, ::A, ::B] { -> ::FA, ::FB { sub map(:(A --> B), FA --> FB) { } }(F.^parameterize(A), F.^parameterize(B)) }
10:48 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Cannot put required parameter  after variadic parameters␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3-> ::FA, ::FB { sub map(:(A --> B), FA -7⏏5-> FB) { } }(F.^parameterize(A), F.^para␤»
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10:49 jnthn Ah, hmm
10:52 Ven`` m: role F[::T, ::A] { say "hello"; }; role F[List, ::A] { say "A"; }; F[List, Int];
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant value F[List, Int] in sink context (line 1)␤»
10:52 Ven`` m: role F[::T, ::A] { say "hello"; }; role F[List, ::A] { say "A"; }; F[List, Int].new;
10:52 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «A␤»
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10:57 Ven`` m: sub f(:(::A --> ::B) $f, A $a --> B) { $f($a) }
10:57 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed parameter␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f(:(::A --> ::B)7⏏5 $f, A $a --> B) { $f($a) }␤    expecting any of:␤        constraint␤»
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11:06 piojo Would anyone else like to try to see if IO.slurp is not threadsafe on their computer, or if it's just me? I posted a testcase here: https://gist.github.com/lefth/6d71ca714ca2dc184220a91ceb41334d
11:07 Ven`` m: role F[::F, ::A, ::B] { -> ::FA, ::FB { sub map(&a:(A --> B), FA --> FB) { } }(F.^parameterize(A), F.^parameterize(B)) }
11:07 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: ( no output )
11:07 piojo It needs to be run several times to throw an exception, so I'm running it in a loop: while perl6 concurrency-test.p6 .; do :; done
11:07 Ven`` jnthn: I just had a brainfart ^ seems like it might work!
11:08 piojo And I'm running it in a rather big directory, on an SSD so the test goes faster.
11:08 piojo I also put in some (commented out) lines that just open a file and call .lines.cache, .close to show that that seems to work. It's something specific in slurp() that causes the problem.
11:11 Ven`` m: role F[Array, ::A, ::B] { sub map(&a:(A --> B), Array[A] $a --> Array[B]) { Failure.new } }; F[Array, Int, Str](*.Str, 5);
11:11 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Uninstantiable; )␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:11 Ven`` jnthn: ^
11:12 Ven`` the error is LTA
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11:13 Ven`` should maybe say something about CALL-ME?
11:14 Ven`` m: role F[Array, ::A, ::B] { method m(&a:(A --> B), Array[A] $a --> Array[B]) { Failure.new } }; F[Array, Int, Str].new.m(*.Str, 5);
11:14 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «No such method 'ACCEPTS' for invocant of type 'A'␤  in method m at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:14 Ven`` m: role F[Array, ::A, ::B] { method m(&a:(A --> B), Array[A] $a --> Array[B]) { Failure.new } }; F[Array, Int, Str].new.m(*.Str, Array[Int].new(5))
11:14 camelia rakudo-moar d6a3a7a1a: OUTPUT: «No such method 'ACCEPTS' for invocant of type 'A'␤  in method m at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
11:15 ZzZombo <ZzZombo> Shouldn't https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/docs/ChangeLog use the `.md` extension in order to use Markdown syntax highlighting?
11:20 araraloren I don't think ChangeLog can use markdown syntax, it has its own format
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12:18 sproctor moritz: I got a version of my Breakable timer working without race conditions. Sort of. It's got a class and atomicint flags... but it does what I wanted. So that's nice.
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12:20 moritz sproctor: great! Will you release it as a module?
12:20 wander quite curious about what LTA stands for
12:21 moritz LTA = Less Than Awesome
12:21 wander .
12:22 sproctor moritz: Well I'm working on a module at the moment to wrap IO::Notifcations and add some info and I was needing it for that. But... I could make it stand alone. I might want to tidy it up a bit more...
12:22 sproctor But yeah. Why not it's useful. I think.
12:24 sproctor Plus I need to fix the construtor. Currently you do Timer.new().start() which is a bit pants. But I'll get the first version in github on my lunch break.
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13:41 sproctor https://github.com/Scimon/Timer-Breakable So I'm letting the Travis job(s) run and then I may upload this. CPAN is the preferred option now right?
13:41 sproctor More tests required. Comments and critiques welcome.
13:43 sproctor (Helps if I turn on Travis of course)
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13:45 lizmat .tell Garland_g[m] testing a fix for your problem
13:45 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to Garland_g[m].
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13:48 [Coke] lizmat++ weeklies again. I can barely review irc at this point. :)
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13:56 lizmat .tell Garland_g[m] https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3cba620404
13:56 yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to Garland_g[m].
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14:04 sproctor So, Travis passed and I figured it's a 0.0.1 build. Might as well release it and let people kick the tyres. (Plus... I'm kind of terrified of releasing a module and I figured if I didn't do it now I'd keep putting it off).
14:04 sproctor So, My First CPAN Module. That's cool.
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14:13 buggable New CPAN upload: Timer-Breakable-0.0.1.tar.gz by SCIMON https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SC/SCIMON/Perl6/Timer-Breakable-0.0.1.tar.gz
14:14 sproctor :D
14:18 sena_kun sproctor++
14:20 sproctor It needs some testing especially race condition testing. (Which I've done locally but writing them for unit tests is going to be fun).
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14:36 geospeck which tool do you recommend for creating the skeleton of a module? App::Mi6 ...
14:37 sproctor That's what I used :)
14:41 geospeck :+1:
14:45 sproctor Need to get my head around the .pause file (I just manually updloaded the tar ball from mi6 dist)
14:45 timotimo the format is just
14:45 timotimo user SPROCTOR
14:45 timotimo password foobarbaz
14:46 sproctor Just those?
14:46 timotimo no piece of documentation exists to tell you this m(
14:46 sproctor I wasn't sure on the format. Cool.
14:48 ilmari sproctor: https://metacpan.org/pod/distribution/CPAN-Uploader/bin/cpan-upload#CONFIGURATION
14:48 sproctor ilmari++
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14:50 ZzZombo ??
14:50 ZzZombo m: dd :a<b>
14:50 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «block <unit>()␤»
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14:52 timotimo dd doesn't take named arguments
14:52 timotimo m: dd
14:52 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «block <unit>()␤»
14:53 timotimo m: dd (:a<b>)
14:53 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «:a("b")␤»
14:53 ZzZombo dd dd
14:53 ZzZombo m: dd dd
14:53 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «block <unit>()␤Nil␤»
14:54 ZzZombo m: dd &dd
14:54 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «Sub dd = sub dd (| is raw) { #`(Sub|46714608) ... }␤»
14:54 ZzZombo shouldn't it throw/warn for no argument?
14:55 timotimo it could
14:56 timotimo wait, you mean no argument
14:56 timotimo no, it's for printing out where in the code you are
14:56 timotimo m: sub blah { bloop }; sub bloop { dd }; blah;
14:56 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «sub bloop()␤»
14:56 araraloren m: dd
14:56 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «block <unit>()␤»
14:57 timotimo m: sub blah { dd; bloop; dd }; sub bloop { dd }; blah;
14:57 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «sub blah()␤sub bloop()␤sub blah()␤»
15:00 araraloren I have not seen this use before.
15:00 timotimo a not very known feature
15:00 timotimo of course dd is a rakudo-only thing, not a perl6 feature
15:01 araraloren So in Perl6 how can we dump a object ?
15:01 araraloren .perl ?
15:01 araraloren m: say &dd.perl
15:01 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «sub dd (| is raw) { #`(Sub|51740496) ... }␤»
15:02 timotimo sure
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15:02 timotimo dd has the benefit of also printing out what var was passed
15:02 timotimo m: my Str $foo = "hello"; dd $foo
15:02 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «Str $foo = "hello"␤»
15:03 araraloren m: my Str $foo = "123"; say $foo.perl
15:03 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «"123"␤»
15:03 araraloren and the type :) gotta sleep, Good Night
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15:13 Geth ¦ marketing: d979039e6c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 4 files
15:13 Geth ¦ marketing: Update "Introducing Perl 6" brochure
15:13 Geth ¦ marketing:
15:13 Geth ¦ marketing: - Incorporate feedback from woolfy
15:13 Geth ¦ marketing: - Fix errors reported on GitHub
15:13 Geth ¦ marketing: - Generate print-quality PDF with bleeds
15:13 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/d979039e6c
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15:28 Geth ¦ marketing: 71c3ed5ea5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | README.md
15:28 Geth ¦ marketing: Link to Camelia's terms of use
15:28 Geth ¦ marketing: review: https://github.com/perl6/marketing/commit/71c3ed5ea5
15:45 sproctor (So it turned out I'd commented out some tests while I was trying to get vows to work and 0.0.1 still had them commented out. I figured this was a great chance to test out the .pause file and mi6 upload.)
15:53 buggable New CPAN upload: Timer-Breakable-0.0.2.tar.gz by SCIMON https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SC/SCIMON/Perl6/Timer-Breakable-0.0.2.tar.gz
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16:01 jdv79 m: class A { has %!h; method foo { if ! %!h{"b"}:exists {} } }; say A.new.foo
16:01 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «Unexpected named argument 'exists' passed␤  in method foo at <tmp> line 1␤  in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
16:01 jdv79 what is going on there?
16:02 timotimo you need parens around that part
16:02 timotimo adverbs like that attach to the "outermost operator" before them
16:02 timotimo for some reason
16:02 jdv79 wut
16:02 jdv79 haha.  o. k.
16:02 timotimo you're passing :exists to prefix:<!>
16:02 jdv79 lovely
16:03 jdv79 thanks
16:03 jdv79 that's not confusing or anything for a newbie
16:03 timotimo totally
16:03 jdv79 maybe the error messaage could say what callable the "named arg" is being attached to
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16:06 timotimo that would be good, yeah
16:06 timotimo BBL
16:06 lizmat but hard, looking at BOOTSTRAP, line 642
16:07 lizmat at that point, apparently it only knows about the capture and the signature
16:07 lizmat nothing about the object it is being attached to
16:07 jdv79 hmm:(
16:09 Ulti m: say [Nil].pick; say [].pick
16:09 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «(Any)␤Nil␤»
16:10 jnthn We should fix Backtrace.pm
16:10 lizmat Ulti: nice catch
16:10 lizmat jnthn: what's wrong with it ?
16:10 [Coke] m: say [Nil].perl;
16:10 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «[Any]␤»
16:10 Ulti the thing is this though:
16:11 Ulti m: say [1,2,Nil,3]
16:11 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «[1 2 (Any) 3]␤»
16:11 jnthn lizmat: It strips out the name of call where the error was thrown, because it's in CORE.setting
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16:11 Ulti you sort of do want it...
16:11 jnthn lizmat: If it didn't do that, then it would be clear it was prefix:<!> that couldn't receive the arg
16:11 [Coke] Ulti: yah, it looks funny, but it seems to follow the rules.
16:12 lizmat Ulti: I think [] is to be a shortcut for Array.new()
16:12 lizmat which implies Any as the default value
16:12 Ulti [Coke]: yeah its just I am wondering what those rules are with a list with a single value thats Nil it feels like the Nil ness might want to spread a bit more
16:12 lizmat m: my @a is default(Nil) = 1,2,Nil,4; dd @a
16:12 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «Array @a = [1, 2, Nil, 4]␤»
16:13 Ulti o___O now that does surprise me
16:13 lizmat m: dd :[Nil]
16:13 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «[Any]␤»
16:13 Ulti m: my @a is default(Nil) = []; dd @a
16:13 camelia rakudo-moar b36685981: OUTPUT: «Array @a = []␤»
16:13 Ulti ok thats at least sane
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16:15 Ulti but yeah this comes to me playing in Python where their random.choice([]) explodes with an exception because None could be a value of the list and I wondered about Perl 6 and thought well [].pick returning Nil was ok because Nil can't be in the list and thats why [Nil].pick made sesne
16:15 Ulti but that default Nil scares me
16:16 Ulti it breaks that logic
16:16 Ulti so I think that might be the broken thing here
16:16 Ulti though you did sort of ask to shoot yourself in the foot
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16:20 comborico1611 Hello, all.
16:22 Ulti hi
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16:27 lizmat Ulti: yeah, but we do need "is default(Nil)" for those cases we actually want to pass on a Nil value
16:28 timotimo jdv79: don't forget there's also :!exists as well as unless
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17:19 scimon Have you ever had a filling fall out? Currently finding Timer::Breakable a bit like that. Third version uploaded... I'll go clean up my PAUSE account in a sec. But this one has a proper constructor.
17:19 ryn1x joined #perl6
17:20 scimon Definitely last change today.
17:21 mcmillhj joined #perl6
17:22 [Coke] I don't understand the reference, but yes, I have had a filling fall out. Most disconcerting.
17:23 scimon When I had it happen I couldn't help poking the hole with my tongue. Over and over.
17:23 scimon So Whilst I'm supposed to be workign through a pile of BAU tickets my brain kept wandering back to this.
17:23 buggable New CPAN upload: Timer-Breakable-0.1.0.tar.gz by SCIMON https://cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SC/SCIMON/Perl6/Timer-Breakable-0.1.0.tar.gz
17:24 scimon Anyhoo. Signing off for today.
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17:42 lizmat scimon++
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17:50 ryn1x_ Trying to learn OO in Perl6. I get an error: "Cannot look up attributes in a MC::Aero type object" with this short code example: https://pastebin.com/98pK6bh9 . What am I doing wrong?
17:51 geekosaur 'type object' means you have an undefined value instead of an object
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17:52 wander rynlx_: what is the whole project?
17:52 [Coke] ryn1x_: that code compiles fine here.
17:52 lizmat ryn1x_: Is there an Aero.new in your code?
17:52 wander this pm6 file itself don't raise exception
17:53 geekosaur right, it'll happen when making the object because no guarantees as ti what's initted in what order?
17:53 wander so maybe the code using this module is wrong
17:54 lizmat ryn1x_: if there's no "Aero.new" in your code, then that's the problem
17:54 raiph ryn1x_: Do the :D / :U type "smileys" make sense to you?
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17:54 ryn1x_ I have a Aero.new... let me pastebin the code calling this module..
17:55 ryn1x_ https://pastebin.com/hmVc4J5g
17:56 ryn1x_ I get OK 1; OK 2; then the error "Cannot look up attributes in a MC::Aero type object"
17:57 [Coke] ;last line should be $pi.close, probably
17:57 perlpilot yep
17:57 [Coke] you're calling .close on the type object.
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18:00 ryn1x_ Shoot... that was dumb.. I was renaming things and called close on the class not the new object...
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18:04 raiph ryn1x_: imo it's important that you ask more questions until the error message makes 100% sense to you
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18:14 lizmat dinner&
18:16 lizmat ryn1x_: method close(Aero:D:) {   # <-- would ensure it can only be called on an instance
18:16 lizmat in which case the error would have been:
18:17 lizmat Invocant of method 'a' must be an object instance of type 'Aero', not a type object of type 'Aero'.  Did you forget a '.new'?
18:17 lizmat s/a/close
18:17 lizmat really dinner&
18:25 [Coke] I wonder if we should add syntax support for class vs. instance methods.
18:25 [Coke] so that "class method barf" would only work on :U, e..g
18:25 [Coke] er, e.g.
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18:35 Garland_g[m] .tell lizmat[m] Thanks.
18:35 yoleaux Garland_g[m]: I'll pass your message to lizmat[m].
18:35 yoleaux 13:45Z <lizmat> Garland_g[m]: testing a fix for your problem
18:35 yoleaux 13:56Z <lizmat> Garland_g[m]: https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/3cba620404
18:36 [Coke] ... oh, right, I can probably put that in a module. :|
18:36 * [Coke] adds that to the pile!
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19:08 * El_Che is reading this: https://www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/7bmbw5/what_should_i_learn_perl_5_or_perl_6/
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19:09 El_Che as a user of both langs :)
19:10 teatime that's a more interesting iteration of that question than usual
19:11 teatime he probably really would be better served by python for his uses, but I feel him 100% on preferring the perl style, regexes, and one-liners
19:12 teatime it says he already knows C and Haskell.  I've set out to learn Haskell like thrice and haven't succeeded yet.
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19:13 El_Che he'll end up with quite a few extra languages :)
19:13 geekosaur this is not necessarily a bad thing
19:14 El_Che it's a good thing
19:15 ryn1x_ Thanks for the tip lizmat
19:15 El_Che chromatic joined the discussion :)
19:15 ryn1x_ Is there a conventional way to implement a timeout for IO::Socket::INET since it is not built in?
19:15 steeznson hello all, I am currently trying to write a regex matching letters, unicode, whitespace and punctuation. So far I have: my $regex = regex { <:N + :L + [\s\t\n] + [!..?]>+} . Which smart matches with "Hello, world!" but does not work as a regex in my grammar. anyone have any ideas?
19:17 geekosaur steeznson, why wouldn;t you just declare it as a regex method outright, so you can use it with <foo> ?
19:18 geekosaur regex whatever { <:N + :L + [\s\t\n] + [!..?]>+ }
19:19 steeznson I am declaring it as a regex method outright, in my grammar it has `regex foo { <:N + :L + [\s\t\n] + [!..?]>+}`, I was just making it easy to copy into the interactive shell
19:19 geekosaur you probably want rx instead of regex
19:19 geekosaur you have set $regex to a code object
19:19 steeznson ah i'll try that
19:20 geekosaur you;d have to invoke it as $regex.() and I'm not sure how youd best do that inside of a grammar, aside from <{ }>
19:20 steeznson so is rx a method of regex?
19:21 ryn1x_ Maybe I should use this: https://docs.perl6.org/routine/anyof with my socket methods? Best way to implement a timeout?
19:22 steeznson i'll have a look at the docs again, thanks for the hint geekosaur
19:22 geekosaur basically regex {} is a subclass of sub {}
19:22 geekosaur ryn1x_, I think you want something related to Promises
19:25 moritz geekosaur: actually, regex {} is a subclass of method {}
19:25 moritz m: say Regex.^mro
19:25 camelia rakudo-moar be9e19efd: OUTPUT: «((Regex) (Method) (Routine) (Block) (Code) (Any) (Mu))␤»
19:25 geekosaur mm, right
19:26 geekosaur in any case it's still nto simply a quoted regex, it's a chunk of code that must be run somehow. smartmatching a Code evaluates it; simply naming it inside a grammar doesn't
19:32 ufobat_ is this document still up to date? https://github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/master/docs/windows.md because i can't get rakudo compiled on my windows vm
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19:41 Geth ¦ mu: koorchik++ created pull request #28: Update schedule: "Language Independent Validation Rules (LIVR) for Perl6"
19:41 Geth ¦ mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/pull/28
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19:45 Geth ¦ mu: a29a0cacbc | (Viktor Turskyi)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | misc/perl6advent-2017/schedule
19:45 Geth ¦ mu: Update schedule
19:45 Geth ¦ mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/a29a0cacbc
19:45 Geth ¦ mu: 0788eaba42 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | misc/perl6advent-2017/schedule
19:45 Geth ¦ mu: Merge pull request #28 from koorchik/patch-1
19:45 Geth ¦ mu:
19:45 Geth ¦ mu: Update schedule: "Language Independent Validation Rules (LIVR) for Perl6"
19:45 Geth ¦ mu: review: https://github.com/perl6/mu/commit/0788eaba42
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20:03 piojo_ ‎ufobat_: I built many times on Windows 10 (not a VM, just Windows), and those commands look strange to me
20:03 piojo_ I compiled with the same commands the linux build is compiled with
20:03 piojo_ But I did have to create a copy or link so "gmake" could be invoked as "make"
20:05 piojo_ I don't believe the compilation used Visual Studio in any way--just Strawberry Perl and possibly some bit or piece from MSYS, which also supplied a compiler (which I also had installed)
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20:06 geekosaur rakudo can be built either way
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20:19 El_Che ufobat_: may I be so bold to ask you to document your finding? I also want to look once I have some time
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20:24 raiph .tell zoffix "We know 6d will have an alias. What if that alias was the brand alias that we chose to promote?" https://www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/78txh8/xpost_perl6_should_be_renamed_perl/dptlagj/
20:24 yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to zoffix.
20:26 El_Che dunno why, but Rakudo grew on me (I know about the lang/impl difference, but that's a problem for later when there are 39 competing implementations :) )
20:33 teatime hrm, how many discrete steps are there between 0.0 and 1.0 in a double
20:34 moritz on the order of 2**63
20:34 moritz no, that can't be right
20:34 moritz but, well, quite a few :-)
20:36 teatime yar, looks like the answer is "plenty", for my needs
20:36 piojo_ floating point is the gift that keeps on giving
20:37 piojo_ You really only need to understand it so infrequently that after you look up the docs and learn what you need, you can forget it again.
20:37 piojo_ So you'll have the pleasure of learning it over and over again :)
20:37 lizmat .oO( like pack/unpack parameters in P5 :-)
20:38 teatime piojo_: I do that with so many things
20:39 teatime luckily they are much faster to learn subsequent times
20:41 moritz teatime: ok, at least 2**52
20:42 moritz the 64 bit of a double are sign + 11 bits exponent + 52 bits significand
20:43 moritz and the for one exponent that signfies the range from 0 to 1, there are 2**52 possible cases for the significand
20:43 teatime yup
20:43 teatime which is def. plenty
20:43 moritz and then there can be degenerate cases, where the exponent is smaller, but still lands you in that range
20:46 piojo_ @raiph I'd rather Perl 6 have an alias than just 6.d. People don't understand that treating perl 5 and 6 as though they were the same is like mixing up c and c++/STL/boost
20:46 ufobat_ El_Che, it worked for me on the 2nd time :-( uninstalled basically every VS software, perl, git, and reinstalled it
20:46 ufobat_ El_Che, i just had *more* stuff on in before, where it didnt work
20:46 ufobat_ El_Che, so.. guide works
20:47 ufobat_ piojo_, does strawberry ship a gcc and stuff, yeah probably for xs modules..
20:48 piojo_ ‎ufobat_‎ I'm about 99% sure it does, but I'm on a linux computer at the moment
20:49 ufobat_ windows is full of mysteries to me
20:51 ugexe what windows problem?
20:52 piojo_ my SSD is so full of windows :'(
20:53 piojo_ good night, folks
20:54 ugexe i had entire process automated including installing visual studio 2017 community but switched to a windows image that already includes it
20:55 ugexe but you have to be sure to use the right VS tools command prompt (not cmd.exe), or run C:\Program Files\Microsoft SDKs\Windows\v7.1\Bin\SetEnv.cmd" /x64 (or wherever this is for your system) if you want to use cmd.exe
20:55 ufobat_ spectests are running now, i am happy :)
20:56 ugexe otherwise you can run into mixed up compiler stuff
20:56 ufobat_ i haven't had this file on my disk, i mean the SetEnv.cmd
20:56 ugexe if you have VS you should I think
20:56 ufobat_ let me see if it is there now
20:57 ugexe it might be in a different path though, naturally they make it impossible to programtically guess it
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20:57 ugexe its based on windows ver -and- vs version
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20:58 ufobat_ nope i still coudn't find it
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21:08 Zoffix raiph: I don't understand the question
21:08 yoleaux 20:24Z <raiph> Zoffix: "We know 6d will have an alias. What if that alias was the brand alias that we chose to promote?" https://www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/78txh8/xpost_perl6_should_be_renamed_perl/dptlagj/
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21:09 El_Che Zoffix: I understand as chaning name every release. Something like debian codenames?
21:09 Zoffix raiph: oh, you mean using the language version's name as a name for the language?
21:10 lizmat .oO( Divali Perl 6 )
21:10 Zoffix So every year all blog authors and book authors and resume writers would edit their work for the new name? Don't really see it as a viable or desirable path
21:10 El_Che there goes our google raring
21:11 lizmat .oO( many small rankings make one big one )
21:11 lizmat oh, eh, not
21:12 Zoffix "Yes, I know 12 programming languages...."
21:12 El_Che using the release name in combination with, let's say "Rakudo", could work (again, like Debian)
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21:21 ryn1x_ if I have   method a() {}    how can I    method b() {do things; return a();}     I get a file not found error... is there a special syntax for calling a method from a new method in the same class?
21:22 timotimo you want to return self.a()
21:24 ryn1x_ thanks timotimo, that worked
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21:40 Garland_g[m] I've been looking at the naming thread that was posted. I actually really like the idea of naming it after a butterfly, so I went looking for butterflies that had a similar pattern to Camelia. I found this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aglais_io
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23:00 comborico1611 It's almost supper time!
23:03 ivans it usually is, somewhere
23:04 ivans here it's 6am :D
23:05 comborico1611 Ah, no. You think to globally.
23:05 comborico1611 Too*
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23:06 comborico1611 Ivans, let me guess. Russia?
23:07 ivans it's where I'm from
23:07 ivans but right now I'm in vietnam
23:07 comborico1611 You must be in China then.
23:07 comborico1611 Wait. No you need to be more there other direction.
23:07 comborico1611 Hawaii?
23:08 comborico1611 Hmm.  I thought you'd be two hours behind if you were there.
23:09 comborico1611 The Vietnamese make great shoes! Ever heard of Vibram toe shoes?
23:09 ivans I don't think I have!
23:09 ivans it's all slippers here
23:09 comborico1611 Best shoes I've ever worn.
23:09 comborico1611 Vibram makes the inner sole for many shoes, as well.
23:10 comborico1611 South Vietnam?
23:11 ivans yea
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23:11 comborico1611 And you speak Vietnamese?
23:12 ivans not at all, I'm here just temporarily
23:12 ivans I do speak Khmer though :p
23:12 comborico1611 Never heard of it!
23:13 comborico1611 I use to take pride in my knowledge of the 10 most spoken languages.
23:13 ivans the language of Cambodia
23:13 ivans 10, that's quite a number
23:13 comborico1611 It's an eye-opening list.
23:13 comborico1611 Also i use to know all the nations of the world.
23:14 comborico1611 I probably can still nail most of them.
23:14 ivans I know 300 digits of pi, for what it's worth
23:14 ivans south-east asia is like a second home by now
23:15 comborico1611 Heh. Reminds me of math geek movies.  That's always in there -- how far they can go to pi.
23:15 comborico1611 But 300 digits is crazy.
23:16 comborico1611 I'm amazed what the mind can do.
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23:17 comborico1611 Ivans, it sounds like your the adventurer type.
23:17 comborico1611 You're
23:17 ivans yeah, most certainly
23:17 ivans it's why I'm in #perl6 :D
23:18 El_Che fedora 27 is out, pkgs being built as we speak
23:19 comborico1611 I remember i tried to install red hat 6? I failed.
23:19 comborico1611 I hate traveling. I hate adventures.
23:20 comborico1611 How long have you been with Perl6?
23:20 ivans I used pugs for some simple things 10 years ago
23:20 ivans I've read the mailing list on and off
23:21 ivans getting more into it again
23:21 comborico1611 I see. But i mean Perl6, not Perl.
23:22 El_Che comborico1611: pugs was perl6
23:22 comborico1611 Do you ride a nice bicycle or motorcycle there in SE Asia?
23:22 comborico1611 Hmm! Haven't read that before. So he was following for a long time.
23:23 El_Che (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugs_(programming))
23:23 El_Che I drove a bellorussian bike on the mountains in Vietnam
23:23 El_Che it was fun :)
23:23 ivans it was "the" perl6 for a short while
23:23 ivans motorcycle for me mostly
23:23 comborico1611 I love motorcycles. But too dangerous here in America.
23:24 El_Che comborico1611: we got a ministre out of it
23:24 El_Che the first perl6 ministre in history
23:24 comborico1611 Do you ride in the rain?
23:24 ivans with perl5 I've been since 1990's
23:24 El_Che comborico1611: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Tang
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23:24 ivans most rains are fairly short so I avoid them when I can
23:24 ivans the rainy season basically means lots of short bursts of rain
23:25 ivans now the dry season is coming so there won't be much rain at all for a while
23:25 ivans but when I have to, I can hold an umbrella while riding :D
23:25 comborico1611 Haha.
23:25 ivans or wear a raincoat
23:25 comborico1611 I must go. Thank you, Che, for the links!
23:25 ivans have a good morning/day/night
23:27 El_Che see you
23:29 El_Che For whoever is concerned, Fedora27 packages online: https://nxadm.github.io/rakudo-pkg/
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